Auto-X looks fun

[robcarync]

yo yo yo...i made it out to my first auto-x today...not to race, but just to observe...and damn it looks really fun. i think ill enter the next one that comes around and have some fun with it.

so a few questions here...you can see my suspension mods in the signature...but what other things could i do to help me out on an auto-x course. i was thinking strut bars for front/back...but i dont know how much they actually do to help out. or maybe one of those dinan engine chips to help the pick up a little for acceleration through curves and such.

hopefully suggest things that arent too expensive since im kind of poor...but im just curious as to what else i can do since i got the main sususpension (springs/shocks/struts) already replaced and upgraded a bit.

and since the engine is pretty much stock, maybe it would be benefitial for the engine chip or something just to make it pick up a bit faster since the suspension is already modified a bit.

so yeah let me hear what you got to say homeys....

[cali-ti]

the chip might actually give a decent boost since you have a 95. otherwise maybe small/light rims and stick tires?

[AlaskaBlue]

Well it all depends on what class you want to run in. Sways, strut bar, and good tires will put you firmly in STS.

http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/street_touring.html

and

http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/sp.html

EDIT chip will move you to an ST class not DSP like I previously had stated.

[robcarync]

oh right i didnt think about class...right now i beleive im in street touring or something...

that first link you gave said 'Reprogrammed ECU may be used in the standard housing." so does that mean a chip would keep me in Street Touring..


and what is STS and DSP?

from what i could tell today there was a stock class, street modified=lots of mods...and street touring which is more basic mods like i have.

obviously i have more research to do on the rules and classes...but im definently interested after today...

[1996 328ti]

Once you start modding the car and changing classes, it is a slippery slope.
Stay stock for a while.

I hate autocrossing. I always get lost. Fast in, slow out. :(

[AlaskaBlue]

There is also street prepared which is a half way between STS and SM.

[robcarync]

i would stay stock but since i already have new upgraded suspension pieces, i am no longer eligible for the stock class (as far as i can tell)

also, i need new tires soon, so what are some good tires/brands for stock 15 inch rims?

http://moutons.org/sccasolo/index.html

thats the links to the rules i used...says i can modify engine management system electircally or mehcanically but not both in the street touring.

so it looks like the upgrades i can go for and still be in the touring class would be : chip, exhaust, strut bars/sway bars

like i said, my current mods put me out of the stock class, so the only thing i can do is to remain in the street touring.

either way right now im just looking to get into it for some fun...learn how to drive the car better and learn how it handles

[bmw318tiChic]

I don't know if I can really help you out with ideas for additional mods, but I just want to say that autoXing in a ti is so much fun! I've been autoXing since about November of 2005 and it's absolutely great. I have been running completely stock, and the only thing I would consider doing at this point is suspension, making it tighter around the corners and lowering the center of gravity. I've also raced in my dad's stock 2005 C6 Corvette, and honestly, the ti is more fun, even though it has a much smaller engine! The ti is just a great car overall, and it is perfectly fine and awesomely fun running stock!

[PeteN95]

The good thing about Street Touring (STS) is, unlike the Stock and Street Prepared classes, the tires are limited to 140+ in tire wear rating. This means no full race tires, so you don't need to have a second set of wheels/tires to be competitive. The Falken Azenis 615s seem to be the hot ticket, but there are several tires that should be good. I am thinking of moving the battery to the rear, which is legal in STS and would help the weight distribution.

[robcarync]

im checking out the azennis right now on ebay...not looking too bad pricewise.

as for other mods, im thinking about grabbing a dinan engine chip since i have an m42...good for 11hp and 19ft/lbs tourque...i have to get the car in for a knock sensor swap, so i figured id get the chip swapped too all in one visit since the local dealer is an authorized dinan dealer. i figure thatd get my car a bit better acceleration and help out a bit.

now does anyone know anything about strut bars? i already have an x brace and shocks/struts/springs...so im not sure how much front/rear sturt bars would really help in addition to the lowered suspension. any one actually have one?

[AlaskaBlue]

im checking out the azennis right now on ebay...not looking too bad pricewise.

as for other mods, im thinking about grabbing a dinan engine chip since i have an m42...good for 11hp and 19ft/lbs tourque...i have to get the car in for a knock sensor swap, so i figured id get the chip swapped too all in one visit since the local dealer is an authorized dinan dealer. i figure thatd get my car a bit better acceleration and help out a bit.

now does anyone know anything about strut bars? i already have an x brace and shocks/struts/springs...so im not sure how much front/rear sturt bars would really help in addition to the lowered suspension. any one actually have one?

I have the Dinan chip and I am very pleased with it.

[DustenT]

im checking out the azennis right now on ebay...not looking too bad pricewise.

as for other mods, im thinking about grabbing a dinan engine chip since i have an m42...good for 11hp and 19ft/lbs tourque...i have to get the car in for a knock sensor swap, so i figured id get the chip swapped too all in one visit since the local dealer is an authorized dinan dealer. i figure thatd get my car a bit better acceleration and help out a bit.

now does anyone know anything about strut bars? i already have an x brace and shocks/struts/springs...so im not sure how much front/rear sturt bars would really help in addition to the lowered suspension. any one actually have one?


The Azenis 615s and the Kumho MXs are rated almost the same. The Kumho MXs have a 220 wear rating. I only paid $80/tire for 215/40/17s from a guy on ebay. The guy's ebay name is: jtbdj5

[robcarync]

awesome. i think ive pretty much convinced my pops on the dinan chip. hes just a bit skeptical thinking that 11hp and 19ft/lbs of tourque doenst sound like a lot and hes afraid we wont be able to notice a difference.

ive been checking out tires and right now im looking at azenis and the kumhos...i still have the original tires on the car from when i bought it...so what exactly is the wear rating? do i want a higher one or a lower one? i know i need x/x/15 since im on stock 15 inchers...but im not sure about what the other numbers mean ( i know i read it on here somewhere but couldnt find it...still looking)

only thing left to debate is strut bars. anyone have one...anyone think its worth it? im just thinking since i already have shocks/struts/springs/xbrace that strut bars might not really add much. been searching a lot on here...lots of information and tons of different bars to choose from...just not sure if its worth it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AC-S-STRUT-TOWER-BAR-BMW-318-318I-318IT-92-95-96-97-98_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33591QQitemZ8061354405QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-93-98-318-BMW-ALL-E36-FRONT-STRUT-BAR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQitemZ8060415557QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

checked those two out on ebay...and the cosmo one too.



anyway im just gathering some information and throwing some thoughts out there...autox looks so fun i cant wait til jun 11 (next one :-) )


edit========


alaska blue...dinan chip...did you get it put in or was it in the car when you got it? was the dealer able to do everything (align it with ews and such) i was reading on here i think rhys had to send his ecu to dinan in CA to get his to work.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Falken-Tire-205-50-15-Azenis-RT-615-Pure-Sport_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ66473QQitemZ8060610977QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

these azenis look decent for 15 inch rims?

[AlaskaBlue]

I had the chip put in at the dealer since the car has been in the family since new. It did give a noticable increase in power throughout the RPM band. It also took care of the flat spot about 5k rpms or so. I really noticed more power down low when I first got the chip, but now the car just seems normal after getting used to it. It doesn't make the car a rocket ship, but it does to its job.

[AlaskaBlue]

Yeah those tires do look very good. I would maybe trying going a little bit wider like a 215 or 225. I am not too sure if the 225 would be too wide for the stock width rims or not or if they are even offered in that fitment.

I know a fellow that got 40k miles on a set of RA-1s which are 100 treadware. So the st-615s should have OK street life.

Lower treadware would generally be associated with a stickier tire.

[AlaskaBlue]

I think pretty much you are good with either of those strut bars. Since you actually want it for performance reasons and not looks you definately want to go with a solid un-hinged strut bar which those are.

[S10mafia50]

Autocrossing is an extremely fun and addicting form of racing. With your mods right now, you will be placed in STS which is the true name of the street tourning class you speak of. I compete in H-Stock with a bone stock 01 focus with the AT....lol. It is actually very fun and likes to oversteer more than understeer.....:)
Andrew

[robcarync]

that is true...i figure the hinged strut bars probably wont be as rigid and the solid ones will probably be better performance wise. i heard good things about the sparco bars, but i like the look of the rectangular tube better, and i figure they look pretty damn solid as well.

so yup, id be in STS class.

just looking into tires/chip/bars now...but chip/tires are higher priority at the moment. thanks for the input guys...any other advice or ideas...just holla!

[PeteN95]

The only thing about those bars is they seem to block access to the adjustable struts, aren't your Tokicos adjustable? It would probably be an advantage to crank them full stiff for Auto-X, if they are. I have seen bars which don't block the top of the strut shaft.

[AlaskaBlue]

http://www.udm-motorsport.com/parts/suspension/sparcostrutbare36.jpg

That is a sparco sturt bar 100 bucks, Non-hinged, steel, access to the top of struts, and very strong.

[S10mafia50]

http://www.udm-motorsport.com/parts/suspension/sparcostrutbare36.jpg

That is a sparco sturt bar 100 bucks, Non-hinged, steel, access to the top of struts, and very strong.
But yet it still looks flimsier than the export brace on my 65 mustang......lol. Andy, we may just be stupid and try to build you one of those too.....:rolleyes:
Andrew

[J!m]

I don't like the bend in these styled bars. Even though there is no hinge, the deflection force will be lower per 0.001" than with a straight design.

Just my $0.02...

[robcarync]

that is a good point about the adjustable shocks...currently they are at full stiffness anyway. so if i just left them like that now id be alright even if the shocks are blocked.

and yeah i read about the sparco bar a bit. seems to be strong...but i really dislike the way it looks. i know i should be getting it for performance reasons...but i really just think it looks kinda bad. if the other two bars are comparable in performance then id just get the rectangular tube ones...look good and work (hopefully)


anyway, i think the strut bar is being put on hold for a bit, as im getting my knock sensors swapped out and hopefully getting the dinan chip in the next few weeks. hopefully i can get some bars a little later down the road.

[96 3 1 8 ti]

I have that sparco bar and its quite solid. Combined with the xbrace it really helps to tighten up the front

[andy]

Lessee a few things -

Any (Dinan or Conforti) chip is good, the main benefit in autocrossing is the higher redline. The M42 actually makes its best power just after the stock rev limiter kicks in.
Strut bar - fine, but not a major difference
XBrace - not legal in STS, I believe it's legal in DSP
Exhaust - catback helps a little plus it's lighter
Tires - Azenis 615, Hankook Ventus 212 S2 and the new Yokohama street tire (Sorry, I'm not sure which one) are all the rage in ST classes these days. Any one of them will be a significant upgrade over old stock tires.

In all honesty, the ti isn't classed very competitively in SCCA classes right now, but a good driver will make up for a lot of that. I'd say go out and have fun, tires and a chip will help a lot, and do other upgrades for the fun of it. With practice you'll be beating a lot of people and learning what upgrades work best.

[robcarync]

good call on the x brace not being legal...ill have to remove that before auto-x or just be classed differently...

i just got back from european performance...fianlly got my pesky knock sensors replaced...car drives much better now...planning on getting some tires soon too...i want the chip more than the strut bars...i figure the major performance booster suspension wise would be springs/shocks which i already have and the chip would work nicely...thanks for the input guys!~

as for the azeni 615 tires...i am interested in them...where can i get them? any tire shop? or do you have to go to a performance place or something? what about like wal mart tire center...thats where my pops usually get tires from i think...but ill go wherever i need to get the azenis...ill have to call around sometime

[andy]

For the Azenis, try Vulcantire.com - usually the best prices and availability. I use either frisbyracetire.com or aimtire.com for Hankooks.

[robcarync]

is it at all possible to find the azenis in person so i dont have to pay shipping or take them to get them put on seperately? im running around town today to check some tire shops...

of course you guys arent from where i am, but just curious if anyone else has found them in person or if you have to go mailorder.

[AlaskaBlue]

is it at all possible to find the azenis in person so i dont have to pay shipping or take them to get them put on seperately? im running around town today to check some tire shops...

of course you guys arent from where i am, but just curious if anyone else has found them in person or if you have to go mailorder.


Most places I have seen around here and on the internet have shown that the azenis are sold out everywhere and won't be in for a couple more weeks. The hankooks are available still though and I know that the local tire places around here can get those in.

I ended up going mailorder because the price for 235/40/17 212s shipped and installed was still cheaper than buying them from the local tire shop.

EDIT: Sold out in most of the sizes I have looked at. Your case may be different.

[robcarync]

i stopped by the local tire shop and they said the azenis were not made in my current tire size...they said they could get me another tire made by falkan, but it wouldnt be as good...the guy recomended me go with michilin for handling and performance and said he could give em to me on the car for $610...

still looking around at the moment

[IndianaTravis]

Okay, a few things here, I'm going to summarize a bunch of posts, so bear with me.

Alaska - I'm pretty sure he can run the chip in STS.

Rob - basically listen to what Andy posted as well. I was going to say just about as much.

Regarding the x-brace, you'll have to remove it for STS, but if you are running novice (which I recommend you do) don't bother for the first event or two, because the benefit is not great and you won't be winning anyway.

Get an aggressive alignment, that will help. Do you have adjustable swaybars?

On tires, don't spend the money on the michelins. If you plan to run STS, you can do pretty well on something like the Kumho 712s or the Yokohama AVS 100s, and save $200 - $300. Tirerack.com is your friend here.

[AlaskaBlue]

Alaska - I'm pretty sure he can run the chip in STS.



The chip is legal in STS. I was mislead during the last auto-x.

[robcarync]

awesome...this topic has kinda moved away from auto cross to more tire related issues...but i figure ill just keep all posts in the same place.

thanks for the help guys...i was thinking about going mail order like tirerack...but i didnt really wanna have to pay shipping...wait for em...then get em put on seperately....but it seems like its the best deal either way.

does anyone know if the azenis do in fact come in a size to fit the stock 15 inch 10 spoke rim?

ive seen ones for 15 inch rims but the other numbers didnt really match up, but i dont know what the other numbers mean anyway...

[AlaskaBlue]

first number is the width of the tire/ second number is the profile/height of the tire/ third is the rims size which you knew.

You could run at least a 215 or 225 width on the stock wheels. The profile you can stay the same or go the next number smaller without much problem. Going a number lower would give you faster acceleration.

Falken only has one 15 inch size on their site 205/50R15. I can't remember the profile of the stock tires anymore :(

Hankook R-S2s have many more sizes

225/45ZR15
195/50ZR15
205/50ZR15
225/50ZR15

[tsilis]

Falken only has one 15 inch size on their site 205/50R15. I can't remember the profile of the stock tires anymore :(




205/60/15,so....

[robcarync]

i have 205/60/15 on my rims right now....

would that falken 205/50/15 be too small of a profile?

[tsilis]

yes....

[S10mafia50]

i have 205/60/15 on my rims right now....

would that falken 205/50/15 be too small of a profile?

Actually, if you are going down in profile, you can get a wider tire(it seems that the wider the tire is, it is slightly taller. I would say if you want to go to 50 series tires, go with at least 215's and your speedo will be off a bit. But the car will handle better with the shorter sidewall.
Andrew

[AlaskaBlue]

One thing that I did what check the actual inches of the tire. That should be under technical specs of the tire. I know it is listed on edgeracing.com

[robcarync]

well that 205/50/15 was the only 15 inch tire in the azenis so looks like im out of luck on those...

any other reccomendations of good tires to look into?

[AlaskaBlue]

http://edgeracing.com/tires/2055515/ These look like your options. One of my friends runs a T1-R in ST and likes them. Those tires are overall half an inch shorter than my 235/40/17s so I think you should be ok. the 205/55/15 look like about the only size you can get any decent performance tire. Maybe I am just looking in the wrong places though.

[robcarync]

i was also checking out tirerack.com and was chekcing for their ultra high / extreme performance tires and such

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?width=205%2F&ratio=55&diameter=15&startIndex=0&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&performance=EP&performance=MP&performance=UHP&performance=HP&RunFlat=All&x=72&y=17

anyone know if any of those are good for auto cross?

man this thread kind of rambled on...im just trying to hurry up and get some new tires on the car before jun 11 auto cross....and i dont know anything about good tires :-(

i appreciate the help a lot though!

====i was reading some reviews on tire rack as well...=====


Yokohama AVS ES100
and
Kumho ECSTA Supra 712

both were rated very good (mostly 10's from everyone)

anyone know anything about them?

[DustenT]

You'll like the Kumho MXs more than the 712s. The 712 are noisey and not nearly as soft as the MXs.

I have MXs on the front and 712s in back....I hate the 712s!!

[IndianaTravis]

i was also checking out tirerack.com and was chekcing for their ultra high / extreme performance tires and such

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?width=205%2F&ratio=55&diameter=15&startIndex=0&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&performance=EP&performance=MP&performance=UHP&performance=HP&RunFlat=All&x=72&y=17

anyone know if any of those are good for auto cross?

man this thread kind of rambled on...im just trying to hurry up and get some new tires on the car before jun 11 auto cross....and i dont know anything about good tires :-(

i appreciate the help a lot though!

====i was reading some reviews on tire rack as well...=====


Yokohama AVS ES100
and
Kumho ECSTA Supra 712

both were rated very good (mostly 10's from everyone)

anyone know anything about them?

I recommended both of those on page 4. I've had both and liked them, as they combined a fairly decent wear rate with good performance. The Kumho MX will perform better, but cost more and wear faster. It is all a trade-off.

[DustenT]

I recommended both of those on page 4. I've had both and liked them, as they combined a fairly decent wear rate with good performance. The Kumho MX will perform better, but cost more and wear faster. It is all a trade-off.

Again, you can find MXs for $65/piece on ebay.

[IndianaTravis]

Again, you can find MXs for $65/piece on ebay.

I take back the more expensive part. That is a GREAT price.

[robcarync]

alright i missed the suggestion on page 4...thanks for reminding me guys...

once again after looking at the MX, the only 15 inch tire they come in is 205/50/15

general consensus is that i shouldnt go any less than 55 for the profile ... time to check out the others

also on another note, many of those tires from tire rack come in 205/60/15 (what ihave now) and 205/55/15...is there any reason to go down in profile to 55 or should i stay at 60 if i have that option?

also, the tires i were looking at were super extreme ultra performance 'summer' tires...if i got the tires id use them year round, but in NC we dont really get much snow/ice so i was thinking it would be ok to leave 'summer' tires on year round. what do you guys think? summer tires will be OK or go with all season tires?

man im new to this tire thing...sorry i have so many questions but thinks a ton!

[IndianaTravis]

alright i missed the suggestion on page 4...thanks for reminding me guys...

once again after looking at the MX, the only 15 inch tire they come in is 205/50/15

general consensus is that i shouldnt go any less than 55 for the profile ... time to check out the others

also on another note, many of those tires from tire rack come in 205/60/15 (what ihave now) and 205/55/15...is there any reason to go down in profile to 55 or should i stay at 60 if i have that option?

also, the tires i were looking at were super extreme ultra performance 'summer' tires...if i got the tires id use them year round, but in NC we dont really get much snow/ice so i was thinking it would be ok to leave 'summer' tires on year round. what do you guys think? summer tires will be OK or go with all season tires?

man im new to this tire thing...sorry i have so many questions but thinks a ton!

I lived in Shelby NC (still have a house there that I can't sell) and there were usually only 4 or 5 days a year that I had to drive with snow on the ground.

That said, on those 4 or 5 days, I would recommend you stay home if you have summer tires on, because you literally will not get anywhere at all and will be in serious danger of crashing. Those tires just don't work at all with snow on the ground.

[robcarync]

in raleigh NC, the last 2 years we have had 0 snow on the ground...and my parents generally dont let me drive on snow anyway...so if there is snow on the road ill probably be stuck at home anyway.

also in raleigh/cary we are pretty good about getting roads plowed quickly...so usually even if it snows, after a day or so there nothing on the roads anyway.


right now im leaning towards the Yokohama AVS ES100...the Kumho 712s...im Xing those off the lists due to road noise, which i have heard complaints from multliple people on that.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=AVS+ES100&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&partnum=06HR5ES100

i think thats what ill be getting....good choice, or is there others i should consider?

===edit====

i just read some more reviews on them from tire rack...and im not sure what to think....the ratings range from 0.8 to 10...some people really hate them and some people really love them....anyone on here have an opinion?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/uhp_give_you_more.jsp

here is a tire test tirerack did comparing the yokohama es 100s and the kumho 712s and a different one....looked like the yokohama was better then the kumho in just about everything...

[robcarync]

alright im pretty certain im going with the yokohama avs es100s....not too expensive at 80 bucks a piece and shopping isnt too bad either...thanks for the help guys....

so i havent ordered them yet, and if you have any last minute ideas now would be the time...

[AlaskaBlue]

alright im pretty certain im going with the yokohama avs es100s....not too expensive at 80 bucks a piece and shopping isnt too bad either...thanks for the help guys....

so i havent ordered them yet, and if you have any last minute ideas now would be the time...


One of my friends has those es100s on hiw integra type R. He said that they are very nice.

[robcarync]

alright awesome...im ordering them now....thanks a ton for all the help guys!