More 'prep for next season' ....

[IndianaTravis]

Okay, so I ran by 'baseline' event in the ti last weekend. The car is stock except for the staggered M3 wheels and tires (running 255's on the back right now.:eek: )

Although I am a bit rusty on the driving side, I was a full 3 seconds out of the trophies had I been running in STS, which is where I plan to run next year. I was about 6 or 7 seconds off the STS winner, which happens to be a car that trophied at nationals this year. This was on a roughly 70 second course.

I figure there is at least .5 seconds I could get out of the car as it is, just by driving it better. From there, realistically, how much should I expect exhaust, swaybars, springs, shocks, and going to 225/45-17s on the rear on 7.5" wide wheels help the car? Am I going to pull in that 3 seconds, or am I wasting my time and money at this point?

I can keep having fun autocrossing the car as it is (even being 'slow' is fun) but I'd like to have a chance at a trophy at least.

I did have an instructor ride with me on one of the six runs, just to make sure I was going about things the right way (its been a year and a half). His comment after the run:

"Well, you know what you are doing. I'll get out of the car now, because the extra weight can really affect the times of a car this slow."

(He drives a 330Ci, by the way)

Also, it was nice to meet DustenT at the event. Sorry we bolted at the end, but we both had our wives on the phone wanting us to run errands!

[bullmand]

I'd definitely try a different set up on the rear. That wheel/tire combo is too much for our cars. Something narrower and lighter should help with acceleration and understeer. You really won't miss the extra rubber in the rear.

[DustenT]

From there, realistically, how much should I expect exhaust, swaybars, springs, shocks, and going to 225/45-17s on the rear on 7.5" wide wheels help the car? Am I going to pull in that 3 seconds, or am I wasting my time and money at this point?

Refresh my memory, what can be done to the car in STS? Sway bars should help a LOT, both of our car were leaning like crazy. The sport suspension sways helped on my car, but no where near where it should be. If you can get away with it, get the HR adjustable sways and endlinks. Exhaust gains will be minimal, you're first in line for the Bosal if I get rid of it. :) I'm not sure how much can be gained with the springs and shock because I never autox'd mine on stock suspension. Do you have the x-brace? That's a great $100 mod.


Also, it was nice to meet DustenT at the event. Sorry we bolted at the end, but we both had our wives on the phone wanting us to run errands!

No problem, I stayed until the end and chatted with Eric (Cali-Ti) and his buddy for a while. I wanted to see what my final time was. I still managed to take last place in SM, but I'm definetely getting better. I was less than 4 seconds away from the season champion in SM with his 2003 Evo 8.

Link to the final results: http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/Solo/2006/Event8_fin_NoPro.htm

[IndianaTravis]

yeah, the rear tires are way too big. I just got the wheels and tires a couple weeks ago, and the plan is to trade off the rear 8.5s for more 7.5s and go with the same size all the way around. It looks pretty mean like this, though!

Dusten, I do want the exhaust when you upgrade. I'm looking at Bilstein sports, H&R springs, and some kind of swaybar. I can't find a rear swaybar for the ti right now, though, and going too stiff in the front without upgrading the rear will mess up the balance of the car.

I'll have to look into the Xbrace and a strut tower brace as well, but those were honestly lower on my list at this time.

[bullmand]

I'll second the Xbrace. It's makes a noticeable improvement. For the swaybars you can use the sport package front and the rear from one of the Z3 models. I can't remember which one, but I have the part numbers at home. I'll post them here later.

[mohaughn]

I would think the suspension mods you are talking about making would not make a huge difference. 7-10% improvement in time is huge. It would probably make more of a difference given the age and condition of your current suspension.

My suspension is shot for auto-x or track purposes, so I'm hoping to see a pretty big difference.. I also think that the lower speeds of auto-x events will mean that suspension mods don't make as much of a difference.. If you are coming into a hairpin braking from 100mph down to 20mph having really stiff springs and stiff sway bars is crucial. But how often does that happen in an auto-x event? Never. Most solo2 events are setup so that the speeds don't exceed 60.

I can't speak for how your courses are setup, but I've noticed that most cars running in similiar classes usually don't get up over 40 or 50. The straighaways just are not long enough.

Doing all of the suspension stuff will allow you to carry more speed into and out of corners, but on a 70 second course having an extra 5mph through one corner is not going to give you a few seconds off your total lap time. The experience will probably help more if your current suspension still has some life to it.

[DustenT]

I would think the suspension mods you are talking about making would not make a huge difference. 7-10% improvement in time is huge. It would probably make more of a difference given the age and condition of your current suspension.

My suspension is shot for auto-x or track purposes, so I'm hoping to see a pretty big difference.. I also think that the lower speeds of auto-x events will mean that suspension mods don't make as much of a difference.. If you are coming into a hairpin braking from 100mph down to 20mph having really stiff springs and stiff sway bars is crucial. But how often does that happen in an auto-x event? Never. Most solo2 events are setup so that the speeds don't exceed 60.

I can't speak for how your courses are setup, but I've noticed that most cars running in similiar classes usually don't get up over 40 or 50. The straighaways just are not long enough.

Doing all of the suspension stuff will allow you to carry more speed into and out of corners, but on a 70 second course having an extra 5mph through one corner is not going to give you a few seconds off your total lap time. The experience will probably help more if your current suspension still has some life to it.

I hit the rev limiter in 2nd gear 3 or 4 times on the track. Not sure how fast that is.

[mohaughn]

Was this the same place that you shot those rain/drifting video's? That looked like a nice facility for auto-x. Seemed like you could get some speed around that big right hand turn.. Our auto-x events are usually held in the parking lot for sebring, the end of a runway, or a local county fairground.... I've not been to any of the sebring events so I'm not sure how they setup the track, but the other tracks are usually less than 1200 feet long. With a small straight-away after some slaloms, two 90 degree turns, another set of slaloms, maybe a little pseudo-chicane and a straight away to the finish... Not really enough room to get up over 50.. I think second ends at like 40 or 45... Not payed that much attention, usually trying to make sure I get the shift right.. :)

Most of the times are in the 40 to low 50 second range, so a much smaller course.

[DustenT]

Was this the same place that you shot those rain/drifting video's? That looked like a nice facility for auto-x. Seemed like you could get some speed around that big right hand turn.. Our auto-x events are usually held in the parking lot for sebring, the end of a runway, or a local county fairground.... I've not been to any of the sebring events so I'm not sure how they setup the track, but the other tracks are usually less than 1200 feet long. With a small straight-away after some slaloms, two 90 degree turns, another set of slaloms, maybe a little pseudo-chicane and a straight away to the finish... Not really enough room to get up over 50.. I think second ends at like 40 or 45... Not payed that much attention, usually trying to make sure I get the shift right.. :)

Most of the times are in the 40 to low 50 second range, so a much smaller course.

Not the same track. Check out the image from space:
The track is 724' wide, not sure how long, but it's a larger area.
http://180customs.net/v-web/gallery/albums/Random/Miller_Park_Out.sized.jpg

http://180customs.net/v-web/gallery/albums/Random/Miller_Park_In.sized.jpg


And, not to brag....but 10 of this years NATIONAL trophy holders came from the Milwaukee region :)

Congratulations to this years Milwaukee Region Trophy winners from the 2006 SCCA Solo Nationals!!
1st STS2 - Andrew Canak
1st ASL - Denise Cashmore
1st AS - Jeff Cashmore
1st STS2L - Megan Young
2nd STUL - Mary Bahr
2nd HS - Mark McKnight
2nd AS - Steve Wynveen
3rd STX - Chris Fenter
5th FP - Mike Tews
6th STS - Jimmy Crawford

Also, Bob Clark (12th in DS), Jim Crawford (10th in FS) and Roy Dietsch (8th in STS2) were only one spot out of the trophies. Four Champions in one year jumps the total up to ten for Solo titles in the regions history.

[andy]

Xbrace isn't legal for ST - some light 15" wheels and stiffer suspension would really help most. 225/50x15s are smaller in diameter, which would get better gearing too. Also, plan to run a stiffer rear and slide it around since an LSD isn't legal either.

[S10mafia50]

Refresh my memory, what can be done to the car in STS? Sway bars should help a LOT, both of our car were leaning like crazy. The sport suspension sways helped on my car, but no where near where it should be. If you can get away with it, get the HR adjustable sways and endlinks. Exhaust gains will be minimal, you're first in line for the Bosal if I get rid of it. :) I'm not sure how much can be gained with the springs and shock because I never autox'd mine on stock suspension. Do you have the x-brace? That's a great $100 mod.



No problem, I stayed until the end and chatted with Eric (Cali-Ti) and his buddy for a while. I wanted to see what my final time was. I still managed to take last place in SM, but I'm definetely getting better. I was less than 4 seconds away from the season champion in SM with his 2003 Evo 8.

Link to the final results: http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/Solo/2006/Event8_fin_NoPro.htm
Hmmm, basically motor bolt ons, I know you can do full coilovers for sts if you'd like. Honestly you are going to need something like alaskablue's to keep body roll to a minimum. My advice would be to sell the M rims and buy a set of kosei's or bbs wheels and get a set of autox tires... A good set of performance tires and a set of decently stiff springs and dampers will work wonders.... You are allowed sway bars, but IDK about adjustable ones. I just worry about what is legal for HS at this point....lol.
Andrew

[bullmand]

Here are those part numbers I was talking about, along with some additional info. This is from the Yahoo group.

I've used the M Coupe 19mm rear sway bar with an otherwise stock 318ti sport suspension. It works very well at reducing the tendency to understeer, but without making the car tail-happy.

Here's the part numbers for stuff that's different:
(1) 33 55 2 693 754 19mm rear stabilizer bar
(2) 33 55 1 094 551 19mm mounting bushings
(2) 31 35 1 124 995 Support straps for above bushings

Part numbers for the rest of the linkage hardware (same as original, but not
a bad idea to replace):
(4) 31 33 1 092 887 Self-locking M8 collar nuts
(2) 33 55 1 135 307 Stabilizer end links <<<good idea to get new
(2) 33 32 1 127 717 End link brackets *
(2) 07 11 9 912 501 M8x43 hex bolts
(2) 07 12 9 964 655 Self-locking M8 nuts *

* I haven't tried this, but some people have reported using the stronger end
link bracket from the front stabilizer in place of the original brackets
listed above:
(2) 31 35 1 127 263 End link brackets
(2) 31 11 1 114 348 A10, 5x22 Flat washer
(2) 07 12 9 964 672 Self-locking M10 nuts

People with stock M-Coupes have been breaking the attachment tabs on the
trailing arms (just like the E30's with aftermarket bars), so I would highly
recommend welding in reinforcements when using this bar. Dinan sells
prefabricated pieces of sheet metal to do this, but anybody that can weld
could probably come up with some suitable pieces on their own.

[andy]

Do you guys have a good source for urethane bushings for the MZ3 bar?