m3 front brakes under stock wheels?

[kelso]

alright so recently i hit a racoon and ****ed up my bumper, had to get a new one and luckily a shop was parting an m3 so i grabbed the bumper. when i went down there i noticed X drilled rotors and ive been looking for some so i thought maybe ill buy the front brakes and rotors and swap it all over but ive got 2 sets of wheels. stock 15's which im gonna use for tracking the car and my everyday 17's. big question is will m3 brakes fit under 15 inch stock sport wheels. otherwise im just gonna get some zimmerman rotors or something, any links to those?

[AutoM3otives]

big question is will m3 brakes fit under 15 inch stock sport wheels.

nope.

[kelso]

damnit! ok well in that case can someone find some good X drilled rotors for the stock 318 brakes please

[AutoM3otives]

good X drilled rotors

Those words don't go together.
Blanks are best.

[kelso]

personal opinion there. cross drilled does work... cheap ones crack, thats why i want good ones like zimmermans

[AutoM3otives]

zimmermans crack.
I pushed my set hard on my E30 m3 WITH cooling ducts on the street and on some spirited canyon runs. Good thing I never took them to the track. They're done.

[96cali]

If you plan on tracking your car and are willing to upgrade consider the e36 325/8 calipers and rotors or even better yet the e46 330 calipers and rotors. You'll have a lot more stopping power and can still do the slotted or drilled rotors if you insist. I know bav auto sells matching slotted and drilled rears for our cars which is a rarity. I bought the slotted from them and have been very happy. There is also another place in Cleveland (where I just left) that always had drilled/slotted sets at a good price. Can't vouch for their quality. Look on ebay fro greatlakesperformance or search brakes within 20 miles of 44118 (my old zip).

[J!m]

Grab the M3 front suspension and run the 17's only. If you need other wheels for track tires, get some cheap 17's from tire rack or something. The wheels will cost less than the brake kit. You can shed some weight with the spare too, since it won't fit the front brakes. BUT, if you keep the stock rear brakes, you can fit the spare on the rear. If you get a front flat, switch tires with the rear, and run the spare on the rear...

You can mount your springs (or up-rate them a bit) on the M3 struts (or up-rate the struts as well) whch gives better caster, better responding sway bar and the big brakes you saw. A stock ti will stop wonderfully with M3 brakes, and all you do is bolt them on; no changes to the ABS pump or master cylinder. Why not? The M3 springs will be a bit too stiff for the four cylinder engine's weight.

[Viper3812]

Animals suck, I hit a cat 2 years ago and he busted my foglight and bracket.

I know someone up here in Orlando who might still have new brembo drilled rotors for the rear of our car if you want them.

[lkwd318ti]

Yes...get blank rotors...
If youre going to upgrade, get 32x i/is brakes. Those should fit under the 15in rims.

-Randy

[mohaughn]

I wouldn't consider zimmerman, bavauto, or even brembo sport drilled rotors good enough for track use..

The brembo sport rotors have this warning on them- "IMPORTANT REMINDER: Slotted, drilled or dimpled rotors offered as OEM replacements should not be considered appropriate for high-speed track use."

If you are going to use cross drilled rotors on the track, get the BMW motorsport crossdrilled rotors.. Of course you will have to get different calipers to fit those rotors.

[96cali]

Grab the M3 front suspension and run the 17's only. If you need other wheels for track tires, get some cheap 17's from tire rack or something.

I always heard 17's for show, 16's for go and 15's for snow at least for stock M44's. Could be splitting hairs though.

The e46 330 brakes still fit 16" wheels so it's a nice compromise, not sure about 15" wheels though (think they do). There is a great visual comparison between all these options buried deep in my bookmarks that I can never find when i need it. I've posted it before though.

[DustenT]

If youre going to upgrade, get 32x i/is brakes. Those should fit under the 15in rims.
-Randy

Correct, they just barely fit under 15" steelies.

[J!m]

I always heard 17's for show, 16's for go and 15's for snow at least for stock M44's. Could be splitting hairs though.

True enough, but this is the 21st century, so perhaps we can say "18's for show, 17's for go and 16's for snow"?

Anyway, I have yet to drive any car with brakes that are "too good", so it really is up to you. It seems like you have an opportunity on your hands that you may regret later (say, after you purchase my swap manual, HINT HINT:tongue: ), but really, if it is a street driven car, the stock brakes with good quality pads (such as the Porterfield R4S) will work splendidly for you. When I took delivery of my car new, I was well impressed with the braking quality on the stock brake pads and tires.

[L84THSKY]

I bought these from BMP Designs, they are the bomb:biggrin:

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/491/126284lg1e93ee3hg5.jpg

personal opinion there. cross drilled does work... cheap ones crack, thats why i want good ones like zimmermans

[DRMblack7]

Guys will fitting the 330 e46 brakes effect pedal travel excesivly.

[J!m]

Pedal travel is affected by a few things. Distance from the pad (or shoe on older cars) to the disc (or drum), air in the lines (since the air compresses and brake fluid does not) and the rigidity of the flex lines. This last point is why everyone switches to Teflon flex lines with stainless over-braid. Distance to disc should not be an issue, but if your wheel bearings are bad, the rotor can wobble, pressing the pads back. Same thing if you go off-road, as dirt and/or water can separate the pads from the disc, opening the gap (I get this on my Land-Rover quite often). Last, and least often a problem, is the flex of the brake pedal lever itself. More of a problem on older cars, but it may be worth keeping an eye on it...

If all that is in check, the brakes will not feel any different.

Case in point: I have full M3 brakes, and the pedal travel and effort is the same. Those calipers and rotors are substantially larger that the 330 brakes... You will be displacing more fluid initially (and your fluid capacity will increase slightly), but to move the pads less than a millimeter with a non-compressible fluid is not an issue.

[DRMblack7]

To be honest the brakes on my 318is feel superb. The reson i ask is that i've just gained a set of 330 brakes. My Seven runs a bike engine and it was a pain to get the bike cluch slave cylider matched to the car master cylinder.
Just wanted to confirm the pedal travel was'nt going to be to great due to the brake master on the 330 being a larger size than the e36 318 one.
Thanks i'll fit them next week and see what its like
Regards Dave

[pdxmotorhead]

LAst time I looked the Wilwood, Brembo, catalogs had a table that would show you that if you have a brake cyl of X*Y you need a master of size W*Z to match their phone support was pretty good as well.

Dave

[DRMblack7]

Cheers for that i'll take a look.

[e36 323ti]

If you plan on tracking your car and are willing to upgrade consider the e36 325/8 calipers and rotors or even better yet the e46 330 calipers and rotors. You'll have a lot more stopping power and can still do the slotted or drilled rotors if you insist. I know bav auto sells matching slotted and drilled rears for our cars which is a rarity. I bought the slotted from them and have been very happy. There is also another place in Cleveland (where I just left) that always had drilled/slotted sets at a good price. Can't vouch for their quality. Look on ebay fro greatlakesperformance or search brakes within 20 miles of 44118 (my old zip).

What about the brake bias? The stock statick brake bias setup for the 318ti with 286mm front and 272mm rear is 72.6%.

Change the front disk to 300mm and keep the caliper (the caliper is the same on the cars with 286mm vented rotors as on e36 325/8 and e46 325, but different carrier), the bias change to 73.6%.

The e46 330 has 325mm rotors and calipers with 57mm piston (stock 54mm). This changes the bias to 77%. Doesn't this make the car too front biased (and longer stopping distances)? Also the e46 330 brakes are approx. 10 kg heavier than the stock 'ti brakes. Is this really a good upgrade?

[andy]

Just for comparison, I did approximately 30 track days and races with stock solid rotors and stock calipers using either Hawk HP+ or Axxis Ultimate pads. Only upgrades were solid bushings on the calipers and ATE Super-Blue (which did seem to help), and stainless steel lines (which I couldn't tell the difference).

Now that I have the 2.8 in the car I've upgraded to the 325/328 rotors and calipers along with an excellent race pad, same diameter, just ventilated.

So, unless you're doing something wrong, you don't *need* upgraded brakes, even for heavy track use. If you want bling and have the extra cash, then, by all means, go for it. :)

[e36 323ti]

Just for comparison, I did approximately 30 track days and races with stock solid rotors and stock calipers using either Hawk HP+ or Axxis Ultimate pads. Only upgrades were solid bushings on the calipers and ATE Super-Blue (which did seem to help), and stainless steel lines (which I couldn't tell the difference).

Now that I have the 2.8 in the car I've upgraded to the 325/328 rotors and calipers along with an excellent race pad, same diameter, just ventilated.

So, unless you're doing something wrong, you don't *need* upgraded brakes, even for heavy track use. If you want bling and have the extra cash, then, by all means, go for it. :)

I guess I have the same setup as you then (286mm vented front, 272mm solid rear).

I am not that experienced (only approx. 15 track days), but I find the brakes on my 323ti unsatisfactory for track use. I have used Ferodo DS2500 (both front and rear) with good result on my e46 325, but on the 323ti I was not pleased with them (have tried stock pads as well). I do always use the same pads front and rear to maintain correct brake bias.

I guess since I am slowly gaining some experience and braking later and harder the brakes does not fit my drivingstyle (?). On my last two day track event I consumed a new set of front pads and fried my rear pads (they delaminated). This was on approx 10 minutes passes.

Also one very experienced instructor tried my car and complained about the brakes (braided lines, fresh Castrol SRF fluid and slotted front rotors).

At this moment I do not see any other solution than changing my brakes (AP-Racing up front and custom build vented rear).

Have you tracked your car with the 2.8 in?

[pnosker]

Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but will this work for all wheels?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Brembo-Brake-Rotors-F-R-Set-96-99-E36-BMW-328i-328is_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33564QQhashZitem320058435478QQihZ011QQitemZ320058435478QQrdZ1QQsspa genameZWDVW

[Panzer_M]

Animals suck, I hit a cat 2 years ago and he busted my foglight and bracket.

I know someone up here in Orlando who might still have new brembo drilled rotors for the rear of our car if you want them.

yea I found the ft/rr set a while ago and then sold them to Alex

I recently found working Powerslots for the rear of the ti, at 200 a set.

[ianik]

Change the front disk to 300mm and keep the caliper (the caliper is the same on the cars with 286mm vented rotors as on e36 325/8 and e46 325, but different carrier), the bias change to 73.6%.



Are you sure they use the same caliper style ? I would be really interested in this mod. My compact is a 323ti so i have the E36 325/28 front brake system.

I will just need new carriers and disks ?

In the ETK, calipers seems to be the same, but references aren't the same. ( on E36 325/28i and E46 325i ).

Thanks/

[1996 328ti]

In the ETK, calipers seems to be the same, but references aren't the same. ( on E36 325/28i and E46 325i ).My guess is that they are different part numbers for a reason. E46 330 calipers will fit a X3 or X5.

Left E46 330 34116765881
Left E36 328 34116758113

[ianik]

My guess is that they are different part numbers for a reason.


Me to


Perhaps the E46 carrier's compatible with E36 caliper... don't know.

[1996 328ti]

Me to


Perhaps the E46 carrier's compatible with E36 caliper... don't know.The carrier appears unique to the E46 330.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=34106750158&showus=on

[ianik]

The carrier appears unique to the E46 330.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partxref.do?part=34106750158&showus=on

Ha , I understand now.... We were talking about two different things.. :tongue:

I was talking about 325ci E46 conversion on E36 chassis.
(300mm rotors).

Seems that calipers are basically the same minus carriers beetween 325/28 E36 and 325i/ci E46.

So on a 323Ti ( equiped in 286 vented front ) I will just have to buy E46 325i carriers and 300 mm rotors to fit.

It's a solution to keep my 16' BBS. :cool:

[e36 323ti]

Ha , I understand now.... We were talking about two different things.. :tongue:

I was talking about 325ci E46 conversion on E36 chassis.
(300mm rotors).

Seems that calipers are basically the same minus carriers beetween 325/28 E36 and 325i/ci E46.

So on a 323Ti ( equiped in 286 vented front ) I will just have to buy E46 325i carriers and 300 mm rotors to fit.

It's a solution to keep my 16' BBS. :cool:


Yes, you need only the carrier. Be aware of the slight change in bias though (from 72.62% to 73.6%).

[ianik]

Yes, you need only the carrier. Be aware of the slight change in bias though (from 72.62% to 73.6%).


The change in bias seems to be reasonable. :tongue: Better upgrade with good rotors ans pads than heavier 330 set up.