m42 idle surges

[bucksworld]

I think i need a new/used mass air flow sensor. Part # 0280202134. The boot looks in good shape. There is just an adaptor and filter. The prior owner added this cheap air intake setup for around $10bucks. The car will rpm between 500-950 at stop lights from time-to-time. No check engine light.
Am I on the right track? Anyone no what to do?

[Panzer_M]

Idle Control Valve, I would say is to blame for a idle issue.

[bucksworld]

no, I should have stated I tried some things and that was one of them. A complete tuneup was done; new plugs,wires,idle sensor, fuel filter battery, alternator. All this was done a few months ago when I bought the car used w/136,000mi. The dealer put an o2 sensor because it was a recall issue. I hoped it would help with this issue but it did not and he said something about the cyl head cam needs adjustment. I didn't think that made sense so left quickly......

[jkilla71]

no, I should have stated I tried some things and that was one of them. A complete tuneup was done; new plugs,wires,idle sensor, fuel filter battery, alternator. All this was done a few months ago when I bought the car used w/136,000mi. The dealer put an o2 sensor because it was a recall issue. I hoped it would help with this issue but it did not and he said something about the cyl head cam needs adjustment. I didn't think that made sense so left quickly......

I just installed a K&N-57i filter today and the same thing is happening to me. The car ran fine before I took out the air box. Now it hardly stays running or some times I will start it and the engine light will come on and it will idle prefect then if I rev it up the light goes off and it idles rough. I am putting the old M42 air box on tomorrow morning. Too bad it sounds great when you jump on it.

[bucksworld]

yes, i wonder if these upgrades can damage the air mass meter 0280202134 ?
but I think I'll try a new air intake systems. i found a used air mas meter for $90.00 but I'll wait on that part.

[campaiar]

The K&N filters can definitely be bad news to the intake sensors.

Since a K&N does its filtering through oil, that oil is slowly drawed into the engine through the MAF sensor. That's why you have to "recharge" a K&N, basically replace the lost oil in the filter material.

[bucksworld]

OK Thanks.............I 'LL stay away from them; however looking at the cosmo intake system as an upgrade. Its the only one the fits the m42 1.8l.

[jkilla71]

yes, i wonder if these upgrades can damage the air mass meter 0280202134 ?
but I think I'll try a new air intake systems. i found a used air mas meter for $90.00 but I'll wait on that part.

I was going to put the stock M42 air box in this morning but after inspecting the intake boot attached to the MAF I noticed a nice crack in the boot between the ridges. I must have damaged it when installing the K&N 571 filter kit. I gave the good folks at Lauderdale Imports Ltd-BMW a call and the had the boot in-stock (34.95). I installed the new boot and she idles and sounds great.

Good luck with yours!

[campaiar]

Clean the Idle Control Valve like Panzer suggested first. Then you can make your CAI decision.

Putting aftermarket parts on to fix problems can get really complicated if other issues are introduced.

[bucksworld]

Idle control valve was replaced from the get-go. Two screws out it comes and in goes a new one for 80bucks. no help. I did clean the current cone filter and noticed a improvement. I cannot go back to stock intake box however because i don't have it. I bought car as is; all stock intake is gone. I am looking at a cold intake to fix this problem. The engine sure runs good considering idle issue. Can take it past 100mi per hour with ease. Still looking at cosmo cai for 120bucks............thanks

[jkilla71]

Idle control valve was replaced from the get-go. Two screws out it comes and in goes a new one for 80bucks. no help. I did clean the current cone filter and noticed a improvement. I cannot go back to stock intake box however because i don't have it. I bought car as is; all stock intake is gone. I am looking at a cold intake to fix this problem. The engine sure runs good considering idle issue. Can take it past 100mi per hour with ease. Still looking at cosmo cai for 120bucks............thanks

I just got the basic K&N kit for the 318ti from http://www.4filters.com/ for 77.00 and free shipping.
Just plug in the year make and model.
The Filter kit # is 57i
fits nice

I am thinking it is the MAF sensor too. The prior owner may have not cleaned and oiled the filter regularly getting some debris in the MAF

Even thought these filters require some attention the car sounds and runs smooth with the bosal exhaust

Good Luck!

[mooseheadm5]

Check for a vacuum leak. The breather hoses are the first suspect. Cars with vac leaks often idle poorly but accelerate fine because the ratio of unmetered air to metered air is much smaller under load. OBDI cars with vac leaks rarely set CEL.
My $0.02
-Paul

[bucksworld]

No leaks found..............Thanks anyway

[campaiar]

If your interested in an original airbox I've got one off my 1995 (Just finished my engine swap) Its already loaded with a K&N. I've got a recharge kit too.

I can send along my old MAF too if you want it. There is a write-up on how to "Fogg" the stock airbox for better performance too.

[bucksworld]

Thanks...I'll give it some thought....

[bucksworld]

Maybe......I am going to wait til after xmas to make a decision

[bucksworld]

Well today I went back and replaced ever vacuum hose I could fine; and have the bruised knuckles and Burt skin to prove it. :roll eyes:
However, I don't no if the one hose coming from the exhaust, very small, going to somethingofmagig with a black side and a white side; I put it so the black side is up , away from the exhaust. I hope it's right? Anyway, so far its running very steady at about 600rpm at idle. Maybe I fixed IT........Time will tell.

Idle fell by 200RPM that's weird?

[mooseheadm5]

Thought it would be a vac leak. That thing is a vacuum check valve, which may have an arrow on it. If you suck through it, you should be able to pull air through from the engine side, but not through the exhaust side. Low idle is a possible side effect of the fix, as your computer has adapted for the vacuum leak which it no longer has. You could reset adaptations with a scan tool (OBDII) or pull battery power for a while to reset the computer (OBD1, which you have.) Or you could just wait for the computer to readapt by itself.

-Paul

[bucksworld]

Good.....Thanks Paul

I think its right(no arrow thou)...What does pull battery mean? Just run the car for awhile and the computer will reset?

[bucksworld]

Took 140mi ride today and noticed the idle thing is still there. So ordered COSMO cold air intake and air mass boot. Idle still fluctuates around 450-900 from time to-time. U can definitely live with it but I would really like to fix it. Parts should be here in 10days. Also, I am going to clean the hell out of the air meter w/throttle body cleaner. :biggrin: Oh well

[mooseheadm5]

Pull the battery cable for a while to reset computer. Careful with the AFM. Is the boot cracked or torn? There is still a problem with your car that may not be cured with your cold air intake. Keep at it.
-Paul

[bucksworld]

lets go back....i replaced the throttle sensor and not the idle speed control valve. my mistake..........this part goes for about $150.00 and it looks like it hard to get at? were is it? under the manifold?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=454501

http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/IdleControlValve.html


new links above are helping click above...AWESOME LINKS ABOVE...DIY

[jkilla71]

lets go back....i replaced the throttle sensor and not the idle speed control valve. my mistake..........this part goes for about $150.00 and it looks like it hard to get at? were is it? under the manifold?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=454501

click above...might help

Check out this link. It shows how to remove the idle control vavle (with pictures) and clean it in 4 and 6 cyl.

I did it myself a couple of months ago. easy job!


http://www.e36coupe.com/
Then select "technical" on the menu on the left
Then select "Cleaning the Idle Control Valve " fromm the list of the right

[bucksworld]

Is this worth cleaning(ICV) or just buy a new one? 135,000mi

I don't ever wont to go through this again, so I might just buy a new ICV with new connecting hoses; one of my hoses is also torn(I may have broken the hose by taken the mass boot off and disconnecting ICV hose or it was broken before. don't know?) . New intake gaskets and throttle body gaskets are needed.

I Ran throttle body cleaner/wd40 into hose to the ICV and noticed a sweet IDLE. I might be on the right track. New part seems to go for around $150.00; the piston in the idle control speed valve goes bad and warps. This part should be recalled and updated with new design.

[jkilla71]

Is this worth cleaning(ICV) or just buy a new one? 135,000mi

I don't ever wont to go through this again so I might just buy a new one with new connecting hoses; one of mine is also torn. Also new intake gaskets and throttle body gaskets are needed. I ran throttle body down that hose to the ICV and noticed a sweet IDLE. I might be on the right track. New it seems to go for $150.00

It really is an easy job if you follow the directions. My car has 155k and it only takes 30mins to pull it apart and put it back together. Not including the time it takes to clean the valve. My car idles very nice before I did it and I can't say the car idles any better after doing it but the carb cleaner I used was dirty when I filled the vavle up and then emptied it out.

[mooseheadm5]

You are still chasing that vacuum leak. WD40 richens the mixture that is too lean due to the split idle hose. Yes, cleaning the idle control valve is fine. We only replace them at the shop when they completely freeze.
-Paul

[bucksworld]

Finally got around to start working on this idle issue today. It took only 25min to remove throttle body an intake manifold to get at the Idle control valve. I shot throttle body into ICV; removing years of dirt buildup and finished off using WD40 to lub. I installed both new hoses attached to the ICV and also the new air mass boot.

Then my friend(mechanic) came by to install the COSMO($113) cold air intake system. He removed both horns and repositioned them somewhere else.

The sound is awesome(a deep throat sound) with a smooth idle.

I can't try it out too much today because the roads are wet. He said I need some splash shield which is missing. Without this shield I can't hit too many poodles.

Does anyone no where I can get this shield that he is talking about?
A dealer part perhaps? :biggrin:

[Kraln]

I can't try it out too much today because the roads are wet. He said I need some splash shield which is missing. Without this shield I can't hit too many poodles.

Those dogs had better watch out!

In all seriousness, you gave up driving in rainy weather when you put the cold air intake on, unless you enjoy a hydrolocked engine.

[bucksworld]

Well in Florida it usually doesn't start the rainy season until June 1 by then I can find that part I need. Under the radiator a plastic piece that goes from wheel well to wheel wheel.

[jkilla71]

Well in Florida it usually doesn't start the rainy season until June 1 by then I can find that part I need. Under the radiator a plastic piece that goes from wheel well to wheel wheel.


Check out this thread. I think this is what you are missing. I had to replace mine when I changed the front bumper it was all broken up.


http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?p=83247#post83247

[robcarync]

hijack temporarily:

i have a bouncy idle too...but i noticed it usually only fluctuates when the ac/heat/fan is on...if it is turned off the idle is generally solid.

is this normal or should i investigate the ICV or vacume leak....how do you check for vac leaks anyway?

[bucksworld]

Yea.........I just replaced every hose or clamp I could think of. Even if it doesn't solve the problem it's a good idea at 11 years old and 135,000mi. Maybe it is just normal because mine does it mostly with AC on. I give up and decided just to live with it. I have no maintenance record, so now I have to replace the timing chain or belt(don't know if its belt or chain?). It certainly runs good after all this. Still slightly bouncy idle though and I can't see replacing everything trying to fix it.

In addition: I found that turning the lights on and off slightly affects the idle by 100-200rpms; the AC will kick it up by 300-400rpms. Perhaps an electrical issue. I might get a set of aftermarket earth ground wires on ebay? Who knows....
I might need a good ground?

[robcarync]

it is a timing chain by the way...suposedly it shouild last the life of the car

[bucksworld]

Thanks ,,,,,,,,,Thats good news, lets rule that out timing problems.

Please look at this link

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EARTH-GROUND-WIRE-WIRES-BMW-318-323-325-328-330-ci-i-xi_W0QQitemZ140065422983QQihZ004QQcategoryZ33691QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[mooseheadm5]

To check for vac leaks, start the car and spray carb cleaner at the area suspected of a leak. Concentrate on intake gaskets, rubber hoses, intake boot, and PCV valve. When you find one, the idle speed will change.
-Paul

[bucksworld]

Please ckeck this link out; it says it will help with idle and how and where do u install it? Anyone know?...........

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EARTH-GROUND-WIRE-WIRES-BMW-318-323-325-328-330-ci-i-xi_W0QQitemZ140065422983QQihZ004QQcategoryZ33691QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[pdxmotorhead]

Those ground systems can help idle, IF the problem is
that you rebuilt the engine and didn't put all the engine
ground wires back. If the stock BMW stuff is in place its
usually fine.

There are several suggestions in this thread about diagnosing the
problem, have you tried them all yet? Idle problems are almost
always simple, It looks to me like your jumping to the hard stuff first.

90% of all engine problems are spark (Lack of it) or
fuel delivery (including vacuum leaks.) These are all about 11 year old cars,
the hoses get hard and crack and need replaced. Fact of life.

Dave

Dave

[bucksworld]

I noticed my ground cable is only a 4 gage cable. Is this stock? Anyway something tells me 2gage will give a better ground. Its very hard to say what is stock; for I am the 3 owner.

[bucksworld]

hijack temporarily:

i have a bouncy idle too...but i noticed it usually only fluctuates when the ac/heat/fan is on...if it is turned off the idle is generally solid.

is this normal or should i investigate the ICV or vacume leak....how do you check for vac leaks anyway?

The idle is fine, except when the a/c is on, is my problem too. I think the ICV is going out. time to spend more money.

[cosmos schwarz]

i've learnt to live with it

[bucksworld]

i've learnt to live with it

:eek: However, I live in Florida and the a/c is virtually on all the time. That piston in the ICV is starting to stick. Cleaning did not work. I'll wait a few weeks and install a new ICV. I will be clad to let u all know if this indeed works. Also, the ground cables have arrived; lets see what happens?


:wink:

[bucksworld]

I am happy to report that it was a poor ground that produced a bad idle. You see, even my local BMW dealership does not have a clue and that's why I work on my own car and listing to you guys. I could imagine what my BMW shop would of cost me and probably still never figured it out.

What a sweet idle. :biggrin:

[mooseheadm5]

You better be referring to the dealer and not me :wink: .
Not that I am saying the dealer is loaded with good mechanics, but you did not post that the problem happened only with A/C on until some time later in the thread, and that turning the lights on and off affected it. Did you tell the dealer that? That would be a clue right there. Looks like you found the problem, but I wouldn't take that attitude with your mechanic! They are more likely to charge you more if you tell them "that's why I work on my own car." We have seen plenty of people who thought they could work on their own car, and have made plenty cleaning up their messes. In the end, most people don't end up saving any money, or end up spending more than if they had a competent mechanic work on it in the first place. We have fixed many vehicles that the dealer or other shops could not or completely screwed up. Besides, how long would you have let a mechanic take a shotgun parts approach at your car while spending your money (though it seems that they were prepared to do so)? You have had this problem for over a month. It took you that long to figure it out, but if it were at a GOOD shop, they probably would have figured it out quickly. You were ready to buy an ICV which lists at about $160 that it didn't need. Remember, you may know how to do some stuff on your car, but rest assured, you don't know even half of what an experienced BMW mechanic (not necessarily dealer) knows. Nothing against you, just a rant in general.

[bucksworld]

Right on! no offense to you at all. Its just my Dealership wanted to do something to my cyl head. I tip my hat to all of u that helped. :smile:

Thanks

[mooseheadm5]

There actually is a service bulliten on rough idle for the twincam motors that involves retiming the cams, but that is definitely not the place I would have started. I seriously doubt that those ground wires do all that the ebay listing promises, but it certainly helped you out!

[bucksworld]

There actually is a service bulliten on rough idle for the twincam motors that involves retiming the cams, but that is definitely not the place I would have started. I seriously doubt that those ground wires do all that the ebay listing promises, but it certainly helped you out!

Never used those ground wires I received on EBAY, just took one 2gage 19in. black battery cable from bottom of battery ground and ran it to side of engine block. That did it. Why I need this; I'll never know? I just have a perfect idle and a well tuned car with all new hoses. Care to race?:eek:

[mooseheadm5]

I'm guessing that the original ground connections were corroded. The charging and starting system ground through the ground strap, as everything there grounds to the block. Any difference in potential to ground between the computer ground (chassis/battery) and the charging system can cause a ground loop issue.
I'd love to race as soon as my 6 cyl swap is done in a week or so. Think I may win, though :biggrin: