first time 5-speed driver

[Ji Money]

So, after years of driving auto, I finally bought the 5-speed 318ti and I took it out for a spin tonight. Man, I heard a real nasty grind when I was slowing down and I think that's because I almost put it in reverse instead of first. I stalled twice at a single stoplight, and honestly, I don't like it... Anyway, It seems like second gear is kinda loud and feels like it is grinding on something compared to gear three. I don't know if that's because I'm supposed shift to third already but second gear sound real loud and feels harsh as soon as I go there.

Can you guys give me some tips? Is second gear supposed to sound different than third? Second gear sounds like its working harder or that something isn't spinning smoothly. I wonder if I'm shifting to fourth by mistake.

[1996 328ti]

Well, no gears should sound louder than the others.
If you are grinding gears you may not have the clutch in all the way.

Practice shifting with the car not running.
Cup the shift lever with you hand when on the left side when up shifting.
Be gentle. Treat the shift lever like it's an egg. Gentle.

[Ji Money]

I wonder what is up with second gear. I'll have to practice shifting with it not running. Like an egg. I was kinda rough with it when it made that loud grinding noise. I hope it isn't major damage.

Thanks

[pnosker]

I don't downshift while slowing down (it's arguable, but it wears out the clutch more with more shifts). I suggest you don't do it if you're prone to accidentally putting it in the wrong gear. Does second sound louder because the motor is revving higher? Good luck learning, it took me a good hour or two to get stick down well enough to drive without stalling, and still I sometimes stall when my music's up and can't hear the motor running.

[Den]

I don't kow whether to laugh or cry. :weirdface

Man, I heard a real nasty grind when I was slowing down and I think that's because I almost put it in reverse instead of first.

If you were downshifting into 1st, you were probably coming to a stop. You don't need to downshift for stopping, just take it out of gear and stop with your brakes. If you were not coming to a stop, you also did not need 1st because 2nd will do if the car is still moving, unless you are going up a hill. Having a copilot who could coach you would be extremely helpful.

[1996 328ti]

I don't think I ever downshift into 1st unless I am crawling real slow in traffic.

[pdxmotorhead]

On the side ,, ZF and Getrag gear boxes do not take kindly to being beat on, shift deliberately and take your time, youll speed up with practice. NEVER powershift a german tranny it will reward you with small metal bits being scattered around the insides of the tranny, eating up other parts...

Dave

[Ji Money]

I don't downshift while slowing down (it's arguable, but it wears out the clutch more with more shifts). I suggest you don't do it if you're prone to accidentally putting it in the wrong gear. Does second sound louder because the motor is revving higher? Good luck learning, it took me a good hour or two to get stick down well enough to drive without stalling, and still I sometimes stall when my music's up and can't hear the motor running.

I see. I definately want to preserve my clutch. Second gear just sounds like it is working harder than 1st or 3rd.

[Ji Money]

I don't kow whether to laugh or cry. :weirdface



If you were downshifting into 1st, you were probably coming to a stop. You don't need to downshift for stopping, just take it out of gear and stop with your brakes. If you were not coming to a stop, you also did not need 1st because 2nd will do if the car is still moving, unless you are going up a hill. Having a copilot who could coach you would be extremely helpful.

Ok, put it in neutral and break. No need to downshift into first. I was reading this web page about learning stick shift and it gave a general guideline about what speeds each gear is meant for so I figured I should put it into first.
http://pages.interlog.com/~css/manualprimer.htm

I'm still hearing that grinding noise in my head. Damn...

[Ji Money]

I don't think I ever downshift into 1st unless I am crawling real slow in traffic.
So crawling is like 5mph to 10mph? Or even slower?

By the way, I was practicing in my garage just now with the car turned off. When the engine is off, do you still have to depress the clutch when changing gears?

[Ji Money]

On the side ,, ZF and Getrag gear boxes do not take kindly to being beat on, shift deliberately and take your time, youll speed up with practice. NEVER powershift a german tranny it will reward you with small metal bits being scattered around the insides of the tranny, eating up other parts...

Dave

Oh man. I can't afford to break anything on this car. That grind, it was so loud. So I went from third to first. Going into reverse takes some effort, but then I was kinda nervous. Oh well.

[pdxmotorhead]

First, just stop downshifting below 3rd until you have more practice driving a manual

My wife had never driven a clutch when we got married,the worst two years of our marriage was when I talked her into an Auto in a car a few years ago, she'd been driving a clutch for 5 years, HATED the auto, I finally had to sell it...

Dave

[1996 328ti]

What could happen is what's called a money shift.
Say going from 4th to 1st. The revs will shoot up and cause damage to your motor. That's why you should hold the shift lever on the side and gently push it into gear. Don't man handle the lever like you are gripping a cue ball.

It's easy to demonstrate than write it down.
What part of Jersey are you?
I'll be up in Paramus this weekend.

[Ji Money]

First, just stop downshifting below 3rd until you have more practice driving a manual

My wife had never driven a clutch when we got married,the worst two years of our marriage was when I talked her into an Auto in a car a few years ago, she'd been driving a clutch for 5 years, HATED the auto, I finally had to sell it...

Dave

Thats too funny. I hope I get the hang of this thing. I was kinda discouraged after the grind and took the car home after about 5 or 10 minutes of driving around he neighborhood.

[Ji Money]

What could happen is what's called a money shift.
Say going from 4th to 1st. The revs will shoot up and cause damage to your motor. That's why you should hold the shift lever on the side and gently push it into gear. Don't man handle the lever like you are gripping a cue ball.

It's easy to demonstrate than write it down.
What part of Jersey are you?
I'll be up in Paramus this weekend.

Oh ****, I live right next to Paramus. In River Edge.

When I downshifted into 1st, I must have been going about 15 miles per hour. Being so used to driving an auto, you never look at the mph when driving until around 35mph. I have no sense of speed from around 30mph and down.

[Den]

Oh ****, I live right next to Paramus. In River Edge.
Sweet! We should put together an East Coast cruise for guys who don't know how to drive manual. :lol:


When I downshifted into 1st, I must have been going about 15 miles per hour. Being so used to driving an auto, you never look at the mph when driving until around 35mph. I have no sense of speed from around 30mph and down.
You're okay. 15mph is within the normal range of 1st gear, but also within the range of 2nd gear, so you should've been going for 2nd. . .but like PDX said, forget downshifting for now. Downshifting is advanced. Get upshifting smooth, then worry about downshifting. Sure, you'll have to go from 5th to 4th or 3rd sometimes when traffic slows down, but don't do it like you're shifting to slow down the car. Use your brakes for that, then after you have slowed down, put the clutch in, breathe and think about what gear you should be in for the speed you're going.

The Money $hift occurs when you the car is rolling faster than the gear you select is intended to handle, and the wheel speed forces the motor to over-rev.
i.e. downshifting into 1st when you are going 50mph and hitting 9,ooo RPM. $hazaam!!!

Show me the money $hift!
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=139042


So crawling is like 5mph to 10mph? Or even slower?
I would use 2nd for this, and push the clutch in before the valves start to chatter if the going gets too slow for 2nd. For me, 1st gear is for launching the car from a standstill and that's about it. The drivetrain tends to 'buck' a bit if you have it in 1st and go on/off throttle while crawling.

[Ji Money]

Sweet! We should put together an East Coast cruise for guys who don't know how to drive manual. :lol:



You're okay. 15mph is within the normal range of 1st gear, but also within the range of 2nd gear, so you should've been going for 2nd. . .but like PDX said, forget downshifting for now. Downshifting is advanced. Get upshifting smooth, then worry about downshifting. Sure, you'll have to go from 5th to 4th or 3rd sometimes when traffic slows down, but don't do it like you're shifting to slow down the car. Use your brakes for that, then after you have slowed down, put the clutch in, breathe and think about what gear you should be in for the speed you're going.

The Money $hift occurs when you the car is rolling faster than the gear you select is intended to handle, and the wheel speed forces the motor to over-rev.
i.e. downshifting into 1st when you are going 50mph and hitting 9,ooo RPM. $hazaam!!!

Show me the money $hift!
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=139042



I would use 2nd for this, and push the clutch in before the valves start to chatter if the going gets too slow for 2nd. For me, 1st gear is for launching the car from a standstill and that's about it. The drivetrain tends to 'buck' a bit if you have it in 1st and go on/off throttle while crawling.


Ok, I'm done with down shifting. Break, neutral, then the right gear. I still need to work on stop to start without buckling too.

I really apperciate all the help, and I'm down to meet up anytime!

[Severian]

Just a couple pointers:
* Use 1st only when taking off from a dead stop
* Use 2nd only when you want to accelerate OR when stuck in traffic. You can use 2nd to take off from a dead stop...this is handy in snow/ice because there's much less torque than 1st. But it takes longer and it won't work well if you're on a steep hill.
* Use 3rd only to accelerate to 4th. If you don't want to accelerate then you can probably use 4th instead.
* If you don't want to accelerate move as quickly as possible to 4th/5th gear. This will save you ga$oline.
* You don't have to hit EVERY gear in order when shifting; you can skip. But you may want to become familiar with the gear locations before you do this.

[Ji Money]

Just a couple pointers:
* Use 1st only when taking off from a dead stop
* Use 2nd only when you want to accelerate OR when stuck in traffic. You can use 2nd to take off from a dead stop...this is handy in snow/ice because there's much less torque than 1st. But it takes longer and it won't work well if you're on a steep hill.
* Use 3rd only to accelerate to 4th. If you don't want to accelerate then you can probably use 4th instead.
* If you don't want to accelerate move as quickly as possible to 4th/5th gear. This will save you ga$oline.
* You don't have to hit EVERY gear in order when shifting; you can skip. But you may want to become familiar with the gear locations before you do this.

All right, so if I'm cruising around town, I can just stay in third and use the break and throtle as needed. I'm gonna practice again tonight. Thanks.

[1996 328ti]

All right, so if I'm cruising around town, I can just stay in third and use the break and throtle as needed. I'm gonna practice again tonight. Thanks.But watch you revs. You don't want to be hitting the rev limiter all the time. And if you don't stop spelling brake, break, we are going to have problems. ;)
I'll let you slide with throtle. It's throttle.

[96cali]

I think another reasonable approach is to find a giant deserted parking lot and just practice 0-40-0 mph runs. Real gentle, take your time, go in a straight line. That should get you well schooled in 1-2-3-4(maybe) gears, which is where you need more coordination. Fifth gear is a no brainer. And just using 3rd gear all around town is OK but look, you just gotta dive in and PRACTICE. I learned in 3 days on my g/f's Golf back in the day (she was out of town and left the keys- what was I supposed to do?). Later, reverse gear freaked me out in her Corrado and the Ti too compared to the Acura I wa sused to. I still mistime the clutch and grind a gear every few months- it happens it's loud as hell. Don't be scared, just laugh. Every car is different. It sounds like you are being cautious and value the car- that is something you can't teach. As long as you are gentle you and the car will survive just fine.



(Mental note to self, stay off the roads in River Edge...) :nervous:

j/k!

[Ji Money]

But watch you revs. You don't want to be hitting the rev limiter all the time. And if you don't stop spelling brake, break, we are going to have problems. ;)
I'll let you slide with throtle. It's throttle.

Haha, it must be my subconscious telling me the car is gonna break from my crappy shifting techniques. Throttle, that one I can't account for.

[Ji Money]

I think another reasonable approach is to find a giant deserted parking lot and just practice 0-40-0 mph runs. Real gentle, take your time, go in a straight line. That should get you well schooled in 1-2-3-4(maybe) gears, which is where you need more coordination. Fifth gear is a no brainer. And just using 3rd gear all around town is OK but look, you just gotta dive in and PRACTICE. I learned in 3 days on my g/f's Golf back in the day (she was out of town and left the keys- what was I supposed to do?). Later, reverse gear freaked me out in her Corrado and the Ti too compared to the Acura I wa sused to. I still mistime the clutch and grind a gear every few months- it happens it's loud as hell. Don't be scared, just laugh. Every car is different. It sounds like you are being cautious and value the car- that is something you can't teach. As long as you are gentle you and the car will survive just fine.




(Mental note to self, stay off the roads in River Edge...) :nervous:

j/k!

Yeah, I scared this driver last night when I stalled twice at one light and the car was buckling pretty harshly. They stayed far away from me.

All right, nice and easy. I'm actually looking forward to taking the car out again tonight now.

[Philly]

a good rule of thumb to start is to shift every gear around 3000-3500 RPM until your used to that...

and the grinding, perhaps you let the clutch out to quickly before the gear was fully engaged???
and my guess is maybe you find 2nd louder because that is IMO the most powerful gear in most 5speeds and revs a little quicker than 3/4/5 gears? just a thought...

a good thing to try and figure out where your clutch 'bites' in also, is to be at a complete stand still in 1st gear and very SLOWLY let the clutch out (not totally out) until the car starts to crawl forward.. give it a little gas and lets your foot right off the clutch... thats where the 'sweet spot' is.. once you master that, you won't stall your car anymore ;) :)

[1996 328ti]

This morning I was breaking down the art of shifting.
There takes a fair amount of coordination.

Once I was rolling I wanted to break it down to the most simple steps.
1st gear is the tricky part but once you are rolling, let off the gas, clutch in, shift, clutch out, gas. Go faster. Repeat until you run out of gears. There really is no need for a coordinated effort between letting out the clutch and giving it gas in the very beginning.

[CirrusSR22]

This morning I was breaking down the art of shifting.

You mean "braking"? :D I kid, I kid.

[1996 328ti]

You mean "braking"? :D I kid, I kid.
No. Breaking.

American Heritage Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=breaking&ia=ahd4) break (brāk) Pronunciation Key (http://cache.lexico.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fbreaking) http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif
v. broke (brōk), bro·ken (brō'kən), break·ing, breaks

v. tr.
To cause to separate into pieces suddenly or violently; smash.

To divide into pieces, as by bending or cutting: break crackers for a baby.
To separate into components or parts: broke the work into discrete tasks.

[CirrusSR22]

No. Breaking.

American Heritage Dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4.html) - Cite This Source (http://dictionary.reference.com/cite.html?qh=breaking&ia=ahd4) break (br?k) Pronunciation Key (http://cache.lexico.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html) http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2Fbreaking) http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif
v. broke (br?k), bro·ken (br?'k?n), break·ing, breaks

v. tr.
To cause to separate into pieces suddenly or violently; smash.

To divide into pieces, as by bending or cutting: break crackers for a baby.
To separate into components or parts: broke the work into discrete tasks.

I know. It was a joke. I just wanted to make you mad :) It's just funny how often people screw up brake vs. break here. I swear you correct them in every thread. :biggrin:

[1996 328ti]

It's just funny how often people screw up brake vs. break here. I swear you correct them in every thread. :biggrin:It's a pet peeve. It's not so much the spelling, it the use of the wrong word. :wink:

[pnosker]

I live in Hunterdon County, we could setup some sort of cruise next spring. I think we NJ/NY/PA people (not forgetting the couple of you VA/MD/DC people that were going to come) were planning on a spring meet anyways. What about a NYC to Philly drive? Meet in midtown Manhattan or something, get some grub at the Carnagie Deli (or Tad's Steakhouse), drive down to philly in time for dinner and get some Gino's Cheesesteaks!

[Ji Money]

Morning everyone! I really appreciate all the help. I ended up falling asleep on my couch last night so I never got try driving again. I'm gonna take another shot tomorrow afternoon when it is light. Maybe driving at night decreases my visibility and it gets me even more nervous.

[pdxmotorhead]

It's a pet peeve. It's not so much the spelling, it the use of the wrong word. :wink:

Awww give em a brake! :icon_poke

Dave

[geetarspaz]

i didn't want to start a new thread for this but i've got a general shifting question. i've been driving my first manual ti since june now and have learned a lot and am pretty good at driving now, at least comparing to the beginning stages.

what i want to know is how to get good at shifting faster and smoother. right now with casual driving, i've got it to the point where it feels like an auto and you hardly notice a shift, staying generally between 2 & 3,500rpm. when going from gear to gear, right before i shift i let off the gas slightly and shift and it don't even notice it. though when it comes to driving faster and wanting to accelerate quicker and shifting faster, or shifting going up a hill, things just feel like it takes longer to shift and it's a lot more sluggish, and not as smooth as i'd want it. i know most of this is all about practice, like how my going from neutral to first is still sometimes jumpy or not as smooth as it should be. if anyone has any tips that'd be great.