HELP! 1 DEAD DASC-ed ti HERE!!

[marko]

Hello everyone...
My spark plug popped out of the socket today AGAIN (!) while driving, but this time unfortunately I was not able to simply thread it back in and go about my way... There is apeareantly NO THREAD left on the head, as I can simply turn the plug all I want and it will NOT catch!
Had to tow the car, and now I'm really f-ing stuck!:mad:

Has anyone had this problem so far & how did you fix it??

I found this company online & it seems they know what they are doing, but I never had to deal with this kind of sh!t before - so ANY help is apreciated!
http://fulltorque.com/sparkplug.htm
Will the bits remain in the head after I drill & tap it?? Do I take the head off first, or simply do it 'over the fender'?? Will this fix last, or do I just bite the bullet, pay OUT MY ASS & have a pro shop fix it??

HEEEEEEEELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!:frown:

[DustenT]

Hey, I replied to your PM. I'll post it here too, maybe others can chime in here too.

Ouch. That's not good. Did you over tighten the spark plug? Did you try a different spark plug in the hole? Are you positive that it's stripped? I blew a spark plug apart once, the porcelain separated from the threaded part, that's why I ask.

Your best bet is to have a shop fix this. You should be able to pull the head off and take it to a machine shop if you are handy and want to save some $. I think the Bentley manual details how to do it. Option 2 would be to try to locate a head off a junk yard car and swap it out, but that's risky, you never know what kind of shape the head is in.

This is what I would do: I would first find a machine shop that can fix it. Tell them you have an aluminum head and the plug hole is stripped, they should be able to quote a price for you if you bring the head in. I would then remove the head, following the Bentley manual step by step, things will be a little easier because the DASC is super easy to pull off. See if the machine shop can do a valve job too, you can gain some extra power for cheap since the head is off. Replace the head gasket too while you are at it.

It's not that bad, you can do it if you are handy and want to get your hands dirty.

Let me know if you run into troubles or whatever.

Good luck!!
Dusten.

[marko]

thx for both PM & reply..

yeah, its stripped, unfortunatelly... while the plug is perfect, & tried both the old Bosch & the current Denso & no dice.

my buddy & I have installed the DASC ourself so that should be no prob., & in fact, have also successfuly removed & reinstalled a head on an 84 GTI some years ago... so he is confident we can figure it out (+ have a Bentley Man.).

I'm also gonna investigate the www.fulltorque.com method as it seems the quickest/cheapest/easiest (however short term) solution it may be... Have to be honest, with a wedding coming up & the money/time being a luxury to me now, I just may opt for the 'easy way out' (even if the opportunities for failure on 'drilling & tapping' my head make me f-ing CRINGE!).

to be cont'd..

[Mad-Machine]

I had this happen on my old super beetle years ago. I did not drill the head, but found a proper tap and liberally coated it in grease before tapping the threads back. The grease kept all the metal shavings from falling down into the engine.

Just be sure to pull it out, clean it up, and regrease it again every so often.

[Bam2002]

I had this happen before on a Peugeot. I used a Helix? kit.. You have to tap out the hole and insert the spring type insert. THen the plug screw into it. However when your tapping out the head metal goes down into the engine, Since this was a beater car I did mu best with compressed air to clear the cylinder. but on a nice car Im not sure Id do it this way.

B

[DustenT]

I would remove the head before trying to tap it, unless you are ready to replace the entire motor. :)

Or as Mad-Machine said you can minimize some of the risk with thick ass grease and a strong vacuum...

Make sure that piston is at TDC and get an extension for your vacumm that you can snake into the hole and suck up and shavings that may have fallen onto the piston.

It makes me nervous just thinking about it!

Good luck!!

[marko]

guys,

it literally scares the sh!t out me thinking how badly I can F this up. I'm not a fan of this particular process either...

I'll call the boys @ fulltorque - talk to someone & try to find out what the entire process is according to them.

If taking the head off is the best all around scenario - then I'll just take the head off & take it somewhere to be done properly as well as have it 're-valved' as Dusten suggested.

if however, it seems a relatively doable thing 'over the hood', then I just may bite the bullet and whatever happens - happens..


I would remove the head before trying to tap it, unless you are ready to replace the entire motor. :)

Or as Mad-Machine said you can minimize some of the risk with thick ass grease and a strong vacuum...

Make sure that piston is at TDC and get an extension for your vacumm that you can snake into the hole and suck up and shavings that may have fallen onto the piston.

It makes me nervous just thinking about it!

Good luck!!

[TiPerformance]

Pull the head, take it to a machine shop and have them TIG weld a little material inside the spark plug hole then drill and tap it to stock specs.

While it is off you might as well have it cleaned up and resurfaced. The bottom ends on these engines seem to be pretty tough so you should be set for many more miles with just head repair.

[ptarditi]

Shouldn't have to pull the head. Should be able to helicore a new insert. This is not an uncommon occurrence, especially if someone had left the plugs in too long and carbon built up then cut the head as the plug was backed out. Or if the plug was overtightened. A helicore might work w/o having to tap threads. The helicore is like a spring and as its wound in it will seat itself. Follow directions. Anyway if you have to tap threads grease will work as well as vasoline. If you look at the tap it is tapered and you should be able to keeps cuttings out of the cyl.

[DustenT]

Remember that with the DASC, your compression is considerably higher than with a N/A motor, so some of the "cheater" methods might not be your best bet.

[marko]

& so the drama continues...

Based on factors facing me in my immediate future (like a wedding in less than 7 weeks from now & all the money & time I'll have to allocate for that shindig + all curent expenses of a new home & girlfriend's brand new - leased car on which I can NOT put 100 miles a day i.e. my daily commute to work & back), I did the math today for all available options & UNFORTUNATELLY the most realistic scenario for me at the momement is the 'helicoil' way.

Believe me when I say I feel like such a PUSSY for opting for this half-ass way out, specialy since I have a perfectly good garage which is handsomly stocked with tools including a brand new air compressor (with 'all the fixings') & one extremely mechanicaly-proficient best friend & to who's dismay I've decided to take the easier way out.
If it sounds like I'm still trying to convince myself I've made the right choice, well, I am... cause god knows I have no faith in the 'helicoil' process.

Be that as it may, the car has been towed today to a Jeep-Eagle dealership of all places (where my father works & from whom & from where, incidentally, I bought the car in 01). He tells me that some Joe Blow there, who works on his 01 Audi A8 when need be, 'is a really maticulate fellow who has done this before on a few ocassions, with considerable success'.
Anyway, he should be able to stay in their shop afterhours on Monday & complete the task within a few hours & charge me about a couple of hundred of dollars, providing he does not run into 'trouble(?!)'.
So, I guess, so much for my buddy & I baskin in gratification and satisfaction of another jobe well done like with the DA blower, & now the only thing left to do is, well, hope...

Being generally a pesimist & a nervous nelly I can be, in in situations like these, I have already looked up a 'plan B', so here it is...
1 - get a 'used' / cleaned / tested head from Bav. Eng. Exc. for $1195 (+ shipping $130 = $1330) - which, a few months from now, if need be I could probably take my time putting on the car myself...
2 - get a 'used' / cleaned / compression tested & dyno-ed long block w/ 2 year unlimited waranty for $1395 (shipping = $1800).. and pay, god knows what, to someone to install (+ clutch / radiator / miscellaneous)...
3 - get a 're-manufactured' (basicaly new) motor with Maxi-Seal pistons / ported - polished head for :eek: $5500 (+ shipping = $5900):eek:

...and as distant 4 (in case I get even further demorilized by this freaking nightmare) I picked up a 07 VW GTI brochure in an unlikely event I decide to go back to my 'roots' & re-join the veedub community I so cruely orphan-ed some 6 years ago for the 'ultimate driving machine'... :biggrin:
Just kidding about the 07 GTI - they look like sh!t... I'd probalby get (again) a nice & clean 2.0 16v A2 GTI!

anyway... will advise upon comletion.

[DustenT]

Tough choices dude. Hope for the best, that's all you can do!

I drove a '07 GTI with DSG. OMG! What a fun little car. I'm considering trading in our Acura TL for one. I'll be driving a 1 series next week (Germany!!) and that's going to be the deciding factor. The GTI is really a cool car, that would be a tough choice, even if it's not the most financially responsible. :biggrin:

Let everyone know how it goes.

[aceyx]

This happened to me winter of '05, albeit on an NA motor.

The shop (BMW of Akron) used a steel insert--not HeliCoil--to repair the damage. You could call them to ask what kind of insert they used. Brought them a case of beer when the job is finished so they'll probably remember and be willing to offer some advice.

[marko]

dude, take it to 'the ring'!! Nordschleife, baby!!!:biggrin:
http://www.nuerburgring.de/index.html?L=1
that should be balls out fun, right there... for that matter, rent anything & take it there for a day. I heard its ridiclously cool. think its like 50-60 euros for a pass...

just stay of the throtle in the 'Nikki Lauda corner'!:wink:

Tough choices dude. Hope for the best, that's all you can do!

I drove a '07 GTI with DSG. OMG! What a fun little car. I'm considering trading in our Acura TL for one. I'll be driving a 1 series next week (Germany!!) and that's going to be the deciding factor. The GTI is really a cool car, that would be a tough choice, even if it's not the most financially responsible. :biggrin:

Let everyone know how it goes.

[marko]

are you still using the same motor?? how long has it been? how much did they charge you? did you get any CEL codes like 'misfire' on that cylinder, afterwards??

the dicks at my local shop (Circle BMW in Eatontown NJ) wanted 1800 bucks as apearantly they feel they need to take the head off since 'otherwise it just doesent work' they say...

F-them! they must think I'm some rich housewife whos late for her aerobics class.
For 1800 bucks (including shipping & core) I can get a used but tested / cleaned / checked head from Bav. Eng. Exc.!

This happened to me winter of '05, albeit on an NA motor.

The shop (BMW of Akron) used a steel insert--not HeliCoil--to repair the damage. You could call them to ask what kind of insert they used. Brought them a case of beer when the job is finished so they'll probably remember and be willing to offer some advice.

[marko]

so, if this guy uses the helicoil thing - will I be able to change the plug as I wish - or is it one of those deals that once you pop the plug into the helicoil, it has to stay in there for good??

The helicore is like a spring and as its wound in it will seat itself.

[aceyx]

Same motor. Probably only put about 8k miles on it since I have three vehicles, but it runs fine. No codes.

They charged $400 (which included a $75 wire overnighted from BMW) and were able to do it to cylinder #4--closest to the firewall, without removing the head nor the valve cover. They were worried they would have to, I was worried they would have to. Price was reasonable, and they were a very helpful crew for what happened which is why I bought them a case of beer. (Note: booze is a REALLY good way of getting on the good side with a mechanic).

New plugs are going in soon, whenever I get the time.
EDIT: they said that when I change plugs, to give it a quick tap to loosen it rather than increasing pressure. Theoretically, it should work like normal other than that.


DustenT: http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8334

[marko]

interesting...
#4 cylinder is a BITCH! I got it on the #2 so its very accessible....

anyway, 8K & still running sounds good to me... all I got to get through is the better part of summer, after that I'll be able to do it properly i.e. a fresh motor option.

Same motor. Probably only put about 8k miles on it since I have three vehicles, but it runs fine. No codes.

They charged $400 (which included a $75 wire overnighted from BMW) and were able to do it to cylinder #4--closest to the firewall, without removing the head nor the valve cover. They were worried they would have to, I was worried they would have to. Price was reasonable, and they were a very helpful crew for what happened which is why I bought them a case of beer. (Note: booze is a REALLY good way of getting on the good side with a mechanic).

New plugs are going in soon, whenever I get the time.
EDIT: they said that when I change plugs, to give it a quick tap to loosen it rather than increasing pressure. Theoretically, it should work like normal other than that.


DustenT: http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8334

[marko]

sweet!:biggrin:


DustenT: http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8334

[ptarditi]

Marko the device I was thinking of wasn't a helicoil, but something else i can't remember the name. The helicoil includes a tap to enlarge the holw and then a replacement set of threads that get seated into the tapped hole. The new threads then get set into place and they should not come out when you change the plugs and you can replace plugs as normal.
Paul T

[ptarditi]

Marko the device I was thinking of wasn't a helicoil, but something else i can't remember the name. The helicoil includes a tap to enlarge the hole and then a replacement set of threads that get seated into the tapped hole. The new threads then get set into place and they should not come out when you change the plugs and you can replace plugs as normal.
Paul T

[marko]

I believe I know what you are refering to.. I think I saw both types fixes.

I'll talk to the guy and see what he wants to use.. will advise if I ever get my little sh!tbox back on the road & how it was fixed.

it should be nailbiter first day driving it, I must say.. :smile:

Marko the device I was thinking of wasn't a helicoil, but something else i can't remember the name. The helicoil includes a tap to enlarge the holw and then a replacement set of threads that get seated into the tapped hole. The new threads then get set into place and they should not come out when you change the plugs and you can replace plugs as normal.
Paul T

[ATF]

F-them! they must think I'm some rich housewife whos late for her aerobics class.
For 1800 bucks (including shipping & core) I can get a used but tested / cleaned / checked head from Bav. Eng. Exc.!

i lol'ed when i read that.

good luck with the repairs :cool:

[marko]

well, she is back but seemingly NOT healthy...

the busted thread was 'reverse' drilled (whatever that is) & a steel insert waas placed inside, to which the plug is threaded to now. Cost $250 (+ 2 towings @ 65 each).

guy said he started it up - let it warm up - and drove it around the parking lot & the car seemed fine. No CEL!

when I arrived, I also strted it up (no probs) and drove it around the lot for a few mins & trully the car seemed ok. No CEL!

as soon I turned the AC (+ misc. like stering & brake), the car started surging and rpms went below 500 on idle- & then the CEL came on!

soooo, the questions are as follows:

1- if the hole was drilled/tapped 'off-center' or 'off-angle', would that triger CEL as maybe 'misfire'?

2 - why is the CEL on only after surge & NOT immediatelly upon starting & running the car for 30 mins?

3- does the ECU 'remember' the legit misfire (when i lost the cylinder on the road last week) & therefore has a delayed reaction?? why would it not come on right away?

One way or the other, it seems there is a 'new' engine in my future (from Bav Eng Exc after the summer)... Whether it is just a 'used' of 'remanufactured', cost will dictate.

anyway, all is apreciated...

[DustenT]

Clear the codes, and then see what comes up after driving it for a while. The plug hole isn't under much pressure until you put the car under some load. Driving around the parking lot isn't a good test. Get on it a little bit and see what happens, try to get up to full boost and see if it holds.

[marko]

will do.. hope it will stay off. Anyway, usually, CEL goes away when the problem goes away (lost a cylinder last time around, & the CEL shut itself off within a day or two).

I drove it home yesterday for about 40-50 miles & it held. I did not push it past 3700-4000, though.

I guess I got to really lean on it & see what happens..
Hope the freaking thing will not die at least till Aug. I'll get new motor by september, I guess, even if just on a stand & then I'll try and save up for a proper install.


Clear the codes, and then see what comes up after driving it for a while. The plug hole isn't under much pressure until you put the car under some load. Driving around the parking lot isn't a good test. Get on it a little bit and see what happens, try to get up to full boost and see if it holds.