View Full Version : New Toys Arrived :)
As some of you may well know, I was looking into a new suspension for ye ol ti.
I ordered a Bilstein BTS and ended up with Bilstein Sports and H&R Sports. I'm not gonna complain :cool:
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9286/dsc01985lv6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shot with DSC-H1 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DSC-H1&make=SONY) at 2007-07-13
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5125/dsc01992zu1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shot with DSC-H1 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DSC-H1&make=SONY) at 2007-07-13
Also that came today were my E46 M3 rear shock mounts, M-Roadster rear shock mount reinforcement plates, rear shock mount gaskets, 3.2L M3 front shock tower reinforcement plates andddd front strut bearing gaskets.
I've read in almost every Bilstein Sport Suspension related thread that you DO NOT use any of the bump stops (front or rear). Now my new question, probably silly but very important. I'm looking over RealOEM diagrams of both the rear and front suspensions.
Will I need to, or is it a good idea to replace the spring pads?
Rear:
14 SPRING PAD UPPER 2 33531128610 $6.48
15 SPRING PAD 7,5MM 2 33531136386 $6.25
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=CG83&mospid=47506&btnr=33_0459&hg=33&fg=45
Front:
09 SPRING PAD UPPER 3MM 2 31331128523 $4.80
13 SPRING PAD LOWER 2 31331090479 $3.79
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=CG83&mospid=47506&btnr=31_0087&hg=31&fg=10
Furthermore, the rear spring pads have 3 different options, and I haven't taken a look at my springs yet to see which color I have, but I'm assuming the 7.5mm came on the actives and the others were on the Sport or Club Sport? I just have to plan on making a trip over to the service center to pickup those parts if they're required for the install (I imagine metal on metal isn't a good idea).
Another reason why I'm asking is, if you search part "SIKF E36 6/92" on bavauto, it specifies that those parts aren't needed when going with sports, but I think that was more directed towards the bump stops. Another thing, should I zip tie the bottom of the boots on the front struts?
mohaughn
07-13-2007, 10:31 PM
They are little rubber pads. Unless one of them is damaged you can re-use them and you do not have to replace them. If you want to lower the ass end a little bit you can get the 5mm pads.
The ones I pulled out where in good enough shape that if I hadn't switched to the smaller pad I would have re-used them.
DocDuvi
07-13-2007, 10:43 PM
those look like H&R race to me my sports are purple but cool setup!! nontheless!!
those look like H&R race to me my sports are purple but cool setup!! nontheless!!
H&R Site says they're Sports :)
Sport Spring E36 Compact 1.4 1.0 29970
Race Spring E36 Compact 2.2 1.2 29593
Thanks for the concern though! And the comments. I cannot wait to get these on this sunday
DocDuvi
07-14-2007, 03:19 AM
awesome I have my srping sitting at home 2!! cant wait to put em on!!
elfhearse
07-14-2007, 11:30 AM
Same setup I just put in. I replaced all the spring pads since everything was torn apart. I also changed out #1 "front guide support" on each strut since it has a bearing that could wear...cost ~ $40 each IIRC
ptarditi
07-14-2007, 11:53 AM
I'm about to do the suspension on my '95 and starting to do the research. Its my daily driver, won't see the track and won't haul heavy loads (except for me). In other words I don't want it to ride like a truck. The internal d3ebate is H&R vs. Eibach (whick I had on a 325). I am also concerned about which Bilsteins as I had put them on a '70 2002 and it rode like a truck. Kind of funny the other day a fellow employee brought his Saleen in and was talking about the Saleen made shocks and I looked over from changing my motor mounts and noticed that the "Saleen made" shocks were Bilsteins. While you are looking at the underneath check the mounts with only 120k on my car they were complely destroyed.
Will I need to, or is it a good idea to replace the spring pads?
I'd replace the pads, they're not too expensive. When I did my suspension a year ago (same set-up as you, like a lot of others), I found I had a tear in my upper pad in the rear. I simply haven't had time to fix it as of yet. The tear is not too bad, so it's not critical. I might tackle it when I have something to fix in the rear, but I like the idea of doing a job right the first time.
As for the spring pad size, there's a ti owner by tonyyy (?) who has quite a rake to his car. Everytime I see a pic, I think it's a little extreme, but, at the same time, I like it's really aggressive stance.
I swear the dealership is useless here... I called the parts dept directly 4 times over a period of 2 hours to find out if they had spring pads. I finally ended up calling the service desk and got forwarded after a few minutes to some guy who clearly didn't work in parts.
I gave him the part number for a spring pad and he said "we dont carry spring, we'd have to order it". I told him, it's a spring pad... "well we don't have the item number you gave me in stock". Well that was that.. I'm beginning to think they don't have any ti parts in their colossal service center. I should just order my parts from pelican, bavauto and other websites of the kind.
sigh /end_of_venting
larryn
07-14-2007, 07:18 PM
If they look okay, you're probably fine to use the old ones.
Thanks a nice present for yourself!!
StealthBimmer
07-14-2007, 11:34 PM
Hurry up and get it installed and let us know what you think about it. Nice set up btw! ;) Yeah go to Pelican and look up the part yourself and probably save some $$ too. I guess you will have to wait a few more days...
I need your help guys, I'm planning on doing the install tomorrow, by myself.. arggghhh. My buddy has work so it looks like I'll be flying solo.
I'm going to print out various pages from various DIY's but I can't seem to find any torque specs or exact instructions on the process. The shocks came with what I should torque the nuts to, but the struts' instructions are MIA. Also what do you guys torque your lug nuts to? One last thing, I know that Bilsteins do not require bump stops, but should I remove the bump stop from the factory shock and try to reuse the dust boot? The front strut comes with its own dust boot, but the rear shocks don't have one.
Appreciate it guys, I imagine I'm going to be sweating bullets during the install. And btw, I'm working on a little side project too.. details to come :)
Ok turns out the Bentley has the torques, so I'm all set there.
My serious concerns now, which I'm afraid I'll have nightmares about!! areeeee...
1. I've found tons of how-to's to replace the RSM, but what about the rear coil springs? Bentley says to remove the axle, I thought i've heard people doing it easily w/o removing the axle? help!
2. Bilstein Rear Shocks need original bump stops or original shock dust boot? Yes no maybe? I know the fronts dont, but that rears look pretty bare!
3. Do I have to remove the rotor to take off the steering arm? I feel like I'm always second guessing the Bentley manual...
4. I still don't understand how the front calipers come off, I guess when I'm down on my hands and knees I'll finally see the full picture?!
Any tips and tricks that you guys have acquired from doing this, please now is the time to share :) so I can sleep well tonight.
bullmand
07-17-2007, 03:09 AM
1. If you're by yourself this might be a little tough. After you disconnect the shock, you can push down on the hub and pry the spring out with a large screwdriver or a prybar. The new ones will just sit right in there with no effort.
2. Use the original stuff. It's just a little rubber disc and a plastic sleeve. It will be obvious how it goes together once you take them off the old ones.
3. No. Just make sure you support the rotor/hub. There are two bolts at the bottom of the strut and one nut/bolt combo on the rotor side of the strut. That's it. Take those three off and you're done. The hardest part of putting it back on is lining up the little locating pin on the hub with the hole in the bottom of the strut. You'll see what I'm talking about when you get in there.
4. You don't need to take the calipers off. Just support them underneath. You also don't need to remove any of the lines or hoses. Just keep everything supported and be careful and it will be fine.
I just did mine a few weeks ago and I just did a Z3 last week. It took me and a friend 2 hours to do all four on my car and 3 hours on the Z3. We had a lift and air tools so it may take longer if you don't have access to that stuff. Good luck.
bullmand,
you may have just saved me a few headaches. I've been reviewing diagrams and pictures of how the strut connects to the rotor (because I'm just that anal in doing things right the first time) and I knew that there must have been an easier way of doing things.
I really appreciate your help, I'd drive down to MD to give you a cold sam summer out of my fridge, but I've got some stuff to install! :)
1. If you're by yourself this might be a little tough. After you disconnect the shock, you can push down on the hub and pry the spring out with a large screwdriver or a prybar. The new ones will just sit right in there with no effort.
In the write-up on this site (posted by andyman, I believe) he recommends standing on the hub. Do it. After messing with it for an hour, I got my father-in-law (yea, I know) to put all 220 pounds of himself on that hub. Problem solved. Once you do one side, the other side takes about thirty minutes. Of course, doing that first side might take you several hours...
4. You don't need to take the calipers off. Just support them underneath. You also don't need to remove any of the lines or hoses. Just keep everything supported and be careful and it will be fine.
I hung my calipers by looping some rope in the engine bay, using an old shirt/rag to protect the fender.
3. No. Just make sure you support the rotor/hub. There are two bolts at the bottom of the strut and one nut/bolt combo on the rotor side of the strut. That's it. Take those three off and you're done. The hardest part of putting it back on is lining up the little locating pin on the hub with the hole in the bottom of the strut. You'll see what I'm talking about when you get in there.
We had a lift and air tools so it may take longer if you don't have access to that stuff. Good luck.
An impact wrench maybe the only answer to removing the bolts in your front struts. If all you have is a breaker bar, spray those bolts with PB Blaster before you head off to bed. Then do it again when you wake up. I attacked mine with a quality $200 impact wrench, and, even then, those little bolts were TIGHT. An impact wrench will also make quick work of strut assembly.
Good luck, be safe, and have fun.
Yeah I'm heading down to my neighbors private auto shop, but I imagine he'll be busy doing service calls or something. So I have tons of tools at my disposable (including impact wrenches :)) It's just a matter of not destroying my car in the process!
mohaughn
07-17-2007, 04:32 AM
After messing with it for an hour, I got my father-in-law (yea, I know) to put all 220 pounds of himself on that hub. Problem solved. Once you do one side, the other side takes about thirty minutes. Of course, doing that first side might take you several hours...
Just disconnect the rear sway bar and it will hang low enough without standing on it. I would not stand on the rear hub as you can damage the half shafts or the cv joints... Even easier just to go to autozone and rent a spring compressor which you will need to remove the front springs from the struts anyway.
Standing on the hub trying to make it go lower that it was ever designed to go is a good way to break something or hurt yourself.
Well it looks like everything is going to get pushed back a day. I picked up spring pads from a different dealer :) Headed over to my buddy's shop to find his trucks parked in his driveway + work areas! Apparently the cops have been giving him **** for parking them on the street, so I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow to get my dwarf car (among the big wreckers) in there :(
I ordered a Bilstein BTS and ended up with Bilstein Sports and H&R Sports. I'm not gonna complain :cool:
Which vendor did that shizzle?
Good luck with the install. :)
Which vendor did that shizzle?
Good luck with the install. :)
Bimmerparts.com
I'm still having trouble finding conclusive evidence of a yes or a no on bump stops on the rear shocks. I think the answer bullmand gave me was about the rear springs? Anyone know if I reuse the dust boot and rear bump stops on the Bilstein Sports? God I hate asking so many questions but I'm a perfectionist. :biggrin:
larryn
07-18-2007, 12:42 AM
Hi ATF, This pic I took during my diff install might answer your two questions.
http://jabber.tardcat.com/photos/photos.cgi?cache=yes&album=irc&res=1024&image=1181938190.jpg
:)
larryn, do you have a bump stop inside the dust boot on your rear shock absorber?
larryn
07-18-2007, 12:58 AM
No, I don't. No banging either, and those are race springs, which would potentially compress the shock more.
elfhearse
07-18-2007, 01:24 AM
I re-used my OEM rear bump stop and dust boot. The bump stop is nothing more than a thick rubber "washer". I figured it would be pretty unusual to bottom out the rear springs that far to actually contact them. Original part didn't have any wear on it either.
bullmand
07-18-2007, 12:37 PM
2. Use the original stuff. It's just a little rubber disc and a plastic sleeve. It will be obvious how it goes together once you take them off the old ones.
This was the answer to the question about the bump stop and protective sleeve. Like elfhearse said it's just a thick rubber washer whose main function seems to be to hold the plastic sleeve in place. I've reused these parts on three cars with Bilsteins now and there don't appear to be any ill effects. I seriously doubt there is much functionality to the rubber washer, but the sleeve appears to do a good job of keeping crap off of the shock rod.
This was the answer to the question about the bump stop and protective sleeve. Like elfhearse said it's just a thick rubber washer whose main function seems to be to hold the plastic sleeve in place. I've reused these parts on three cars with Bilsteins now and there don't appear to be any ill effects. I seriously doubt there is much functionality to the rubber washer, but the sleeve appears to do a good job of keeping crap off of the shock rod.
Ohhh, I misread it and thought you were talking about the spring pads :redface:
Did you guys re-align the front tires after you put on the new goodies?
robcarync
07-18-2007, 02:50 PM
you can reuse everything pretty much...either way they really arent that important of a piece...i got new bump stops for my front shocks because the rubbery foamy stuff had disintegrated...but even without them i seriously think youd be ok
anyway, just to reiterate what others have said:
1. dont remove the axle
2. reuse your stuff
3. support the rotor and hub assembly...i used the rope across the engine bay method with a towel to protect the fender.
4. dont worry about the calipers...just support the entire assembly
TIPS
spring compressors are nice...i read on here you didnt need one for the rears and they were a complete B1TCH to get in trying to pry them in with a pry bar...i eventually got them in, but it was tough...it would be so much easier to use a spring compressor.
for the front struts....be CAREFUL with those three bolts! they are TIGHT and i sheared the head off of a bolt trying to get them off...and had a chunk of metal stuck in my steering arm, resulting in a side project to drill through it and extract the threads with a tap set.
if you are doing it at a shop, then hopefully you will have a full range of tools and you shouldnt hit too much trouble
after doing suspension work you should get an alignment...
i honestly couldnt tell a difference after the goodies (alignment wise)...but i got one just to be proper
cooljess76
07-18-2007, 03:41 PM
When doing the rears, after disconnecting the swaybar link and the lower shock bolt, make sure that the e-brake is disengaged to allow the trailing arms to drop down completely for spring removal and installation. It helps if you have someone push down on the brake rotor by stepping on it and pulling up on the fender arch at the same time, while you rip/jerk the old springs out.
larryn
07-18-2007, 06:21 PM
If you disconnect the swaybar and the lower shock mount in the rear, the springs come right out no problem. Since he's doing the shocks anyway, he's halfway there already. :) Great point about the ebrake, jess.
robcarync
07-18-2007, 06:40 PM
ahh i see...I'm not sure if i disconnected the sway bar (this was done two years ago...)
i just read on here that you could just push the hub assembly down and pop the springs out so im thinking maybe i only removed the shock bolt...
but yeah...you should be alright
Just an update, looks like it's going to be pushed til tomorrow, street was parked full due to the rain. I guess nobody went out to free up some valuable street space. So I'm x'ing my fingers for tomorrow :/
Also that came today were my E46 M3 rear shock mounts, M-Roadster rear shock mount reinforcement plates, rear shock mount gaskets, 3.2L M3 front shock tower reinforcement plates and front strut bearing gaskets.
What about the front strut bearings?
They may not fail like the original RSM's, but they are a wear item. They're only ~$30, and this would be a good time to replace them, since you will have the struts out anyhow.
What about the front strut bearings?
They may not fail like the original RSM's, but they are a wear item. They're only ~$30, and this would be a good time to replace them, since you will have the struts out anyhow.
You know what, I thought about that. My friend also pointed out to me that we're going to have to get the strut bearings off the old strut and that they are also a wear and tear part. But at this point, any money I'm spending is going right on the credit card, and right now I just cant afford it.
When I get my job up @ school, my roommate's got a couple of buddies who have their own car garages in their back yards. So I could always replace them later down the road with ease :) Thank you for your concern though.
Attached pic (roommate's friend's ti)
No problem. It looked like you were doing a thorough replacement of everything and might've forgotten them. I know what it's like to be a student with less than $0. The ones on the car might be fine anyhow. :)
I dig the orange + white Ti. Looks like a big Creamsicle! :p
They are finally in!!!!! The install took about 7 hours, with a lunch break and a few service calls in between. Didn't use eye protection or jack stands. We liked living on the edge.. ha, but we did stick some like 40" steel rims under it when we jacked the back up. Also the front struts are a pain in the arse. Got the front driver's side in without a problem, just a little work. The passenger side would not give in. We decided to jack up the other side, and the alignment pin popped right into place. Took us 2 hours to get to that point. Rediculous. I'll get pictures up soon, it looks niiiceeeee. Handles so much better as well. The spring pads were all in excellent condition, and the strut bearings looked, felt and rolled fine.
Thank you guys!
i got the heavy duties with the H&R sports is that a good match?
Squeezed off some pics before it got too dark. I was busy washing the car and trying out the new TurtleWax Ice stuff. The "Liquid Clay bar" stuff is junk, but the wax and the detail spray isn't half bad. After apply the wax and doing a little detail spray on the moldings and trim, it looks pretty sweet. It made the base of the sideview mirrors look brand new as well.
I'm planning on snapping new pictures tomorrow when it's light out. If a bird poops on my car, I'm going to be pisssssseddddd!
The original ride height. Also the tires need some tire cleaner IMO. But none of that shine stuff, I need to find something that gives it that new tire look. Any recommendations?
Edit, it doesnt look like the front dropped much, but it went from a 3 finger gap to about a 1 finger gap. The rears, I forget.
Edit 2, is it normal when I'm going over some bumps to hear a knocking noise? I've narrowed it down to the shock. I've confirmed that both the rear mounting bolt is torqued and the top 3 bolts on the RSM are as well tightened. It just scares the **** out of me when I'm driving. I'm hoping it is just part of the settling process.
Well I peeled back the trunk lining to find that one of the RSM's nuts had come loose and I tightened it down good. I still have a knocking when going over bumps or potholes :( I did a quick peak under the car and made sure both rear shocks were secured at the bottom and they indeed were.
I'm open to suggestions, I need to go back to my friend's shop and get it jacked up again and take a peak underneath I guess.
larryn
07-25-2007, 12:25 AM
I had a knocking back there too. It was driving me nuts. Turns out it wasn't the suspension, but rather a combination of the rubber adjustment knobs on the hatch not meeting the perch, and a license plate that didn't have all 4 screws in it. I unscrewed teh adjustment knobs on teh hatch a few turns and put all 4 screws on the plate, and it's silent now.
It might not be your problem, but it's easy to try that.
I had a knocking back there too. It was driving me nuts. Turns out it wasn't the suspension, but rather a combination of the rubber adjustment knobs on the hatch not meeting the perch, and a license plate that didn't have all 4 screws in it. I unscrewed teh adjustment knobs on teh hatch a few turns and put all 4 screws on the plate, and it's silent now.
It might not be your problem, but it's easy to try that.
Funny you mention that, my hatch is crooked, I'm not 100% sure why. I've messed with those rubber knobs before, but I haven't touched them prior to the suspension install or after it even. I've also gone over a couple of bumps w/ the hatch open just to make sure it was coming from the rear area (my friend was in the trunk.. dont worry, we were just going over a bump in his driveway).
Anyways I'm going to go rip my lining out again and double check the nuts, and pop my head underneath and see if I can find anything. God this knocking scares me, I'm afraid to go 40 mph on a curve for fear of wiping out.
Ok update. I just got done crawling underneath the car and ripping the linings out of the trunk. Nothing down there that cannot be hand tightened. Tomorrow when the sun comes out I'm going to repeat the process with a torque wrench. I double checked every spot that we took something off. Both sway bar nuts, the bolts that hold the rear of the shock. The RSM bolts, the shock into the RSM. Everything was hand tight, and I'll make sure that theyre all tight tomorrow when I go over them w/ the torque.
I'm kind of curious if using the stock (active) spring pads in the rear was a mistake? Could it be my springs knocking around when I go over a bump? The built up potential energy in the spring from the weight of the car & its contents, suddenly changing into kinetic and essentially "floating free"? I would have thought the sport shocks would prevent the car from lifting high enough to provide this travel but I suppose it's possible..?
Would switching to thicker spring pads solve my problem? Perhaps whichever spring pads the clubsport or sport are equipped with rather than the actives would solve my problems? All speculation at this point, but it is undriveable with this noise.
I'm going to get some duct tape out, my tripod and my video camera and recreate the situations so you guys can get a first hand experience of what I'm experiencing. I don't get why I'm having so much trouble.
mohaughn
07-25-2007, 02:52 AM
You would have to get airborne and have something pushing down on the wheel to get the spring to free float. Is it your exhaust? If the hangers are old it could be bouncing around with the stiffer suspension. If you grab the tip of the muffler it should not be able to move much. If it moves more than an inch or two that is to much.
If you grab the tip of the muffler it should not be able to move much. If it moves more than an inch or two that is to much.
Good call, I'll check that as well tomorrow. I have noticed it to move around a bit. I gave it a good jiggle before but I'll pay close attention to it this next time around.
bullmand
07-25-2007, 02:48 PM
It's hard to help with something like this when you can't be there and hear what's going on, but here's another suggestion. Make sure everything in the hatch area that could possibly move around is secured. Tools, warning triangle, spare tire, parcel shelf, etc. I've noticed since I put the Bilsteins on that things back there jump around a little more than they did before. I don't know what you have back there but it could be that simple. Keep us posted.
It's hard to help with something like this when you can't be there and hear what's going on, but here's another suggestion. Make sure everything in the hatch area that could possibly move around is secured. Tools, warning triangle, spare tire, parcel shelf, etc. I've noticed since I put the Bilsteins on that things back there jump around a little more than they did before. I don't know what you have back there but it could be that simple. Keep us posted.
Ok well I've stripped out EVERYTHING now. All that is left is one of the side storage buckets, with a pair of gloves, a roll of duct tape and two road flares. The items in the tool kit are secured down and the spare has been removed. I'm about to go on a drive and do some errands to find out how i've made out. I noticed that there was a lot of vertical play in the exhaust. I can push it up about 2 inches. So to remedy that, I wedged a 2 x 4 ontop of my muffler to prevent it from traveling vertically.
I'll report back in after I'm done. Going to go pickup some blank T Shirts from the store, I ordered a silkscreen kit for some custom ti shirts, ya baby!
larryn
07-25-2007, 07:56 PM
Won't a piece of wood on the hot muffler catch fire? It gets VERY hot back there, which is why the exhaust is suspended and shielded from everything else.
The wood didn't catch fire, yet.. I only took it for a short spin around the block instead of going out shopping.
When I wedged a piece of wood up there, the likelihood of knocking and the noise of the knocking significantly dropped off. When I lifted the muffler as high as it could go, a similar hollow knock rang out, so I'm guessing it's the muffler hitting the pan of the trunk. Now that I've identified the potential problem, it's time to fix it.
I'm guessing I'll be needing 1 #7 and 2 #10's?
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=CG83&mospid=47506&btnr=18_0235&hg=18&fg=20
bullmand
07-26-2007, 12:04 AM
It probably wouldn't hurt to get new 7s and 10s, but trying loosening 9 and sliding 8 up. It might solve the problem and save you a little money.
Ok, sorry I haven't really posted lately, I've been swamped with Student Leadership training. When I piled my car full of a stuff, the knocking noise was extremely bad. It seemed any flaw in the road would make the rear give me a knock noise from both the left and right sides of the car (this is with the fixed hangers). I'm not going to be able to get it in the air until september :( I'd love to hear some suggestions on what to check. I plan on taking out the rear shocks and shock mounts to see if there's anything that doesnt look right. As well as looking at all the points the rear sway bar mounts. What bothers me is that it is a combination of weight and the suspension. Oh well. Talk to you guys later.
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