M44/M42 ITB/Multi Throttle

[kingpersia]

Hey guys im new to the forums and really join up to get your opinion on stuff because you guys are pretty much the market.
Within the next 10 months i plan to design and fabricate a Multi-Throttle intake system with a carbon fiber intake phlenum for the m44/m42, which will pretty much bolt on. Ive done my research and can see that the price for one atm is about $AU3600. I plan on selling the ones i make between $AU2000 & $AU2800 ( depending on if a carbon fiber phlenum is ordered)
My question is do u guys think that it is worth fabricating it, because im going to be building one for my engine weather or not i sell more (im planning on building something on the lines of the S42).

[Pennyfan]

Man. if you have the money/technique then do an engine swap to M52/S52 engine.
This 1.9 ltr engine doesn't has that much potential. Just not worth it.
Then you can purchase after market cf plenum, or even a bolt on super charger.

[kingpersia]

i knew this would become an issue, i know an engine swap is more bang for buck, but i am just more interested is seeing how close to s42 power output i can get, if i can reach 180hp at the wheels, i will be happy, obviosly this isn't just with the ITB's. I plan on boring the cylinders to fit s50b32 pistons in there, installing new C-rods that can handle in excess for 8000rpm (just to be safe), some polish and porting of the head, and valve/valve springs can can handle a new redline of 8000.

[szed]

i knew this would become an issue, i know an engine swap is more bang for buck, but i am just more interested is seeing how close to s42 power output i can get, if i can reach 180hp at the wheels, i will be happy, obviosly this isn't just with the ITB's. I plan on boring the cylinders to fit s50b32 pistons in there, installing new C-rods that can handle in excess for 8000rpm (just to be safe), some polish and porting of the head, and valve/valve springs can can handle a new redline of 8000.

Right on! Good luck with the build. Many just don't understand that there are some who don't want to swap in a 6cyl. Some like/prefer the challenge of building an engine. :wink: Nothing wrong with either choice but it gets old when people just post "swap in a 6cyl and call it a day".

Post up pics of your ITB setup when you get around to it.

Also, why not go with custom pistons instead of the s50b32 set? I think CP, JE, Wiseco, ect...are better options.

Read some of the articles/tech info on the Metric Mechanic website (if you haven't already) about porting and polishing of the cylinder head...some surprising revelations regarding the latter.

[sokat1989]

Id like an intake system of the sort but not for that high of a price. specially with such little power gains. good luck anyhow. if u sell it ill be interested but not for that price.

[kingpersia]

Thanks szed, atleast one person understands me. One reason why i want to do this apart from full economy and to heard the car scream at top power is because in 11 month there is a competition happening and personally id like to take away the N/A four cylinder price, and im hoping for 150+hp at the wheels (this years winner was 120+hp).
And also regarding the part bout different pistons, the reason i want to used s50b32 pistons is because i want to do an affordable job but still keep it safe and obvioulsy m3 engines can handle power so im going with that (i can get s50b32 pistons for about $300US for 6).

As for sokat, how so wat price do u think would be reasonable to sell the kits for...how does ~$1400US inc. manifold sound?, im just trying to get a fair price so when i have then fabricated i can get it going, and maybe make a name for myself. In australia though i would still sell them for bout $2500AU because the only chance of people here getting one for less then $3000AU is if they buy a second hand dbilas or BMP design

[mohaughn]

Those dbilas and BMP setups don't work anyway... I've never seen an ITB setup for an m42/44 that works properly. Tuning is the issue. No offense, but we've seen this kind of effort attempted multiple times over the years and tuning is always the downfall. I think you are more likely to do a good turbo setup than actually get an NA ITB setup working properly.

Also keep in mind that there is no market for a 1500-2000+ part for cars that are starting to be worth $1-5k. DASC is the only thing that makes decent power, and there is no market for that.

[kingpersia]

It because you guys obviously dont have the right tuners. I have a friend with a 318is that is pushing out 134hp at the rear wheels. No ITB setup but the car didn't run properly until it was retuned by Superchip. M3 injectors, ITB's, S50b32 pistons (87mm bore), 11.5CR, sporty cams, cold-air intake, exhaust, SuperChip tune, i could easy push out 150hp at the wheels. Plus my aim isn't really bang for buck, or else id go DASC (i may DASC after all my other mods), my aim is to try and re-create something like an S42, and i know that without solid lifter cams, increased oil feeds, and 8 injectors i wont be able to do that, but personally id prefer to built something similiar then pay 15000 euro's for a used one (the price for one atm).
And i actually like drive high-reving cars, its alot more fun.

[marko]

I never saw ITBs on M42/44, but I would really like to!
I know lots of 4 banger VW guys have them - but no BMWs that I have seen.

Try M42club.com - they may have some more info...

http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4749&highlight=independent+throtle+bodies

http://www.m42club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1983&highlight=independent+throtle+bodies

However, if you want a NA M42/44 that can handle 7500rpm+, look no further than Metric Mechanic...
http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdfs/metric-mechanic-m42-and-m44-engine-booklet.pdf

i knew this would become an issue, i know an engine swap is more bang for buck, but i am just more interested is seeing how close to s42 power output i can get, if i can reach 180hp at the wheels, i will be happy, obviosly this isn't just with the ITB's. I plan on boring the cylinders to fit s50b32 pistons in there, installing new C-rods that can handle in excess for 8000rpm (just to be safe), some polish and porting of the head, and valve/valve springs can can handle a new redline of 8000.

[kingpersia]

Hahah dun worry mate i know all about metric mechanic, they have some killer ideas. i friends got stock cams, rods, valve/springs, and hes redlining at 7600.
Atm everything is in the design stage but by the end of the year, i should be almost finished, if anything the ITB's will be on for sure, along with ported head and injector upgrade, the s50 pistons and boring come last

[marko]

sounds good - IMhumbleO, a fully built M42/44 is always cooler than a swap... not to mention ITBs! those things are sick...

as for porting/polishing - DO seriously read the info on Metric's site - as it seems that it is not always the best option... very interesting reading.

Hahah dun worry mate i know all about metric mechanic, they have some killer ideas. i friends got stock cams, rods, valve/springs, and hes redlining at 7600.
Atm everything is in the design stage but by the end of the year, i should be almost finished, if anything the ITB's will be on for sure, along with ported head and injector upgrade, the s50 pistons and boring come last

[spidertri]

I am all for built 4 bangers, more unique than a 6cyl swap for sure. Good luck with your build.

If you haven't seen it yet, this build thread does pretty much exactly what you want.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=433471&highlight=s42

[marko]

just caught this on youtube - but I have no idea how to get more... sounds evil though :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW6BvAtFZig&feature=related

[Mallard]

heres a pic of the Dbilas tbs fitted on a car we did at work.

(please forgive the mess of the engine, it wasnt cleaned before the pic was taken .. )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/johnono/efter_6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/johnono/efter_5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/johnono/efter_4.jpg

the engine functioned fine, but the owner swapped this out with an E36 M3 3,2 euro engine after not too long..

the car has now an E39 M5 engine in, with the 400 + hp
.. in a compact :lol:


To KingPersia, i hope you do get it done :) it has a great potential that little 4 potter !!

But the previous post of the 318i.s with 134 hp... are you sure you wrote the correct numer in?

from standard , its born with 136 hp?

Anyway, i heard someone designed , and managed to make work their own ITB setup with motorbike tbs, and some kind of MS chip to run it.

i dont know if it lived though.. :lol:

[mohaughn]

Superchips don't work on the US spec motors. There is really nobody over here that will custom tune the M42, and very few will work with the M44.

That is why I said tuning is the issue... With an M44, it can certainly be done, but it will be more expensive than what the majority of the market place will want to spend for the gains seen. I don't think you would ever make any money trying to sell an ITB setup when so few people with these cars want to go the route of having custom tuning done. Would it be cool, certainly, but my first response was more so talking about the potential market for this kind of product.

[kingpersia]

That market is small, but i can get these cast for anything around $600AU and finish them for $800-1000 ill tell them for around $1000US probably, and thats alot less then Dbilas or BMP. But all in all im really just looking to make myself an impressive 4 banger. If i can get close the s14 specs (not in torque) ill be extatic!
And to Mallard, yes 134hp is right im pretty sure. The 138hp that come from the m44, isn't at the rear wheels, its at the flywheel. My friend has a lightweight flywheel so i thing the loss would be around the 25% mark so hes runny around 180+hp at the flywheel. Im going to be doing similair work to him and quite a bit more, so im expecting around the 220hp mark at the fly, hopefully around 160hp at the wheels

[Mallard]

how comes superchips dont work? is it the fuel octane rating is different? there isnt that much difference in the Euro and US spec m42 / 44 is there ?

but true , if there isnt anyone willing to buy such a setup, then it´ll be an effort to find someone who can source one for you, and is willing to fit it..

[FMD]

superchips do work, my car's ecu was flashed with a superchip n/a tune

[mohaughn]

I meant that there is a difference between US and Australia/European DMEs, that is all. SuperchipsUK is not a common tuner seen very much in the US, which is what I thought the OP was talking about. There are a few different superchips companies throughout the world, atleast two. Any anything can be done custom, although very few people on here pay for custom tuning, and that is usually what stops this kind of project.

[marko]

mallard - that is a beautiful thing!

how much did it put down before the owner swaped it for something else?

heres a pic of the Dbilas tbs fitted on a car we did at work.

(please forgive the mess of the engine, it wasnt cleaned before the pic was taken .. )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/johnono/efter_4.jpg

the engine functioned fine, but the owner swapped this out with an E36 M3 3,2 euro engine after not too long..

the car has now an E39 M5 engine in, with the 400 + hp
.. in a compact :lol:


To KingPersia, i hope you do get it done :) it has a great potential that little 4 potter !!

But the previous post of the 318i.s with 134 hp... are you sure you wrote the correct numer in?

from standard , its born with 136 hp?

Anyway, i heard someone designed , and managed to make work their own ITB setup with motorbike tbs, and some kind of MS chip to run it.

i dont know if it lived though.. :lol:

[cool-shi]

Hello kingpersia,

I read your R&D over at the M42Club forum, seems great and which would work with the stock DME.

so I decided to give a try and ordered the carbon one online a week ago!!

no updates on the shippments but looking forward to it!

My DME is tuned by Kellener's and I have Apexi AFC piggyback so I can play around with fuel mixtures a little.

will see how it goes, do you know if I need to buy anything or everything is in the kit as complete bolt one?
do I need the synchronizter tool?

thanks,

[e30rida]

Anyone have the link to where I can buy these?

[cool-shi]

heres the link where I bought directly from the orginator

http://racehead.com.au/products-page/bmw/bmw-m44m42-complete-itb-kit/

i think there is also Ebay and other shops selling their product but abit higher??

I had few issues with the packaging and product itself but they have manage to well to get me the correct parts.

good luck!

[e30rida]

Thanks man!

[The_Ikon]

Any updates?

[jerseytim]

i put a 328i engine in mine and although it went very well it was a lazy engine and didn't help the handling with the weight being further forward. i then re fitted the m42 with throttle bodies, cams etc and couldn't get over how well it went. the m42 is a very under rated engine which has the potential for plenty of power.

[cool-shi]

installed last summer break and lovin it so far!!!
took a good 2.5 days for me due to some minor issues

as of now its running on stock DME, if I ever save up for the stand alone ECU then I can remove the carbon air chamber.
(it does have the Kellener's tuned DME, its just basically remapping and change in timing? but suppose to give out 10 to 15hp)

anyways, after installations and some driving around few days to re-learn the new air/fuel mixture, it runs very strong after 4K rpm, from 5K to redline its a different engine for sure:biggrin: