Another Metric Mechanic Motor (pix)!

[marko]

Hey Everyone!

I think some of you may remember my previous half-ass 'metric' build thread - which went nowhere quick (below) - so here is the continuation.

http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21397

I just FINALLY paid for my motor in full - and Teddy from MM will be shipping it to me today... to boot, he included 21 pics from the build itself - for me to salivate over.

Specs!
MM High Flow M44 Head w/lightweight retainers/Manganase Bronze valve guides/bee hive valve springs
Forged H-Beam Rods & Forged FI Flat Top Pistons
MM Single Timing Chain Conversion
360 Degree Main Bearing Thrust & Oiling Groove Conversion
Displ: 2.0L
Cams: 258 Intake + Stock Exhaust
Comp: 9.8:1 (a hair under stock)
Larger Head Bolt Retrofit
Fully Balanced Crank/Rod/Piston Assembly

Though the engine will be in my posession very shortly, do not hold your breath for project completion till (late) spring - as I STILL have to save up for the following:

MM 14lb. Lightweight Flywheel + 240mm clutch assembly
MM's own software + 42.8lb Lucas injectors + MAF + smaller pulley
Incidentals (like new radiator, sensors, etc.)

In the meantime - enjoy the photos - cause all I can say is that they made my day! LOL

Let you all know when it arrives...

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/1-1.jpg?t=1235138835
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/2-1.jpg?t=1235138886
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/3-2.jpg?t=1235139149
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/4-1.jpg?t=1235138913
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/5.jpg?t=1235139197
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/6.jpg?t=1235139230

[marko]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/7.jpg?t=1235139275
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/9.jpg?t=1235139302
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/10.jpg?t=1235139336
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/11.jpg?t=1235139379
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/12-1.jpg?t=1235139412
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/13.jpg?t=1235139438

[marko]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/14.jpg?t=1235139464
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/15.jpg?t=1235139492
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/16-2.jpg?t=1235139522
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/17.jpg?t=1235139544
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/18.jpg?t=1235139569
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/19.jpg?t=1235139596

[marko]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/20.jpg?t=1235139619
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/21.jpg?t=1235139646

[96cali]

One word- WOW!

What's the price tag again?

[mohaughn]

I can't believe they don't put the M42 metal thermostat housing on their motors... Almost makes me wonder if my assumption that it does fit on the m44 is wrong.

Looks sweeetttt..

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

That's funny I got my pictures of my motor build yesterday too. 41 came to me but there imbedded in the email and are bitmap. All different pictures too

Your look sweet:cool:

[Ray Cism]

I checked out the M44 MM video on youtube and the thing sounds awesome. If I ever have an extra $7000 in my bank I'll be sure to invest it in an MM rebuild.

[marko]

price tag is way more than I'm admiting to my wife - so she dont cut my balls off and flush them down the toilet. :cool:
its a hair over 7K, though that does includes the credit I got for an entire spare motor I traded in for a discount.

I cant wait to get it.. should work out nice - specially since MM will give me the dme tune for it.

EDIT: - studied the bill a bit more carefully today - 6.8K for the motor + 400 for shipping

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

I checked out the M44 MM video on youtube and the thing sounds awesome. If I ever have an extra $7000 in my bank I'll be sure to invest it in an MM rebuild.

Someone told me that video is a de-tuned Metric motor only pushing out 185 HP. That motor will be remotely tuned by Metric in March and should be over 300hp when finished. The same person told me the guy who owns that car is a dumb-a$$ thinking his car was all bad-to-the-bone when it was not really fast at all, it ran in the mid 9's @ 74mph in the 1/8...pathetic:biggrin:

[tiFreak]

its a hair over 7K, though that does includes the credit I got for an entire spare motor I traded in for a discount.

$7k? :eek: with a discount?! that's more than a ti is worth, lol, motor looks sweet

[marko]

you are correct - my car has little value today... but F-it, its a keeper as I kinda grew attached to it... + I view it more as a hobby than anything else - like Lego blocks for adults :)
besides, I didnt charge a single cent for this motor - was saving slowly for the past 10 months to buy it. :smile:

next project - a 20 year old vdub with similar work to be done - a NA 2.0 16v totally tweaked & built! LOL I love euro hatch-backs - my favotite kind of cars! Ultimatelly wanna have a RWD & a FWD one... :biggrin:

$7k? :eek: with a discount?! that's more than a ti is worth, lol, motor looks sweet

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Some people always have money on their mind. How much will it be worth if I do this? The motor costs more then the car. Why spend more on the car then it's worth or you will be able to sell it for? Well I'm not selling my car, my son will get it if he continues on honor roll through high school, he's in second grade now. It's really all about what makes you happy. If you have the cabbages to spend and it makes you happy then do it...who cares what everyone else thinks. I wanted a fast 4-cylinder and I'm slowly getting there having fun learning and sharing my experience. When I max out the 4-banger I will move up to the next step, a 9's second street Bimmer. I will buy a perfect E46 coupe and turbo it with big boost and pump out 1000+hp but right now I'm having fun with this 4-cylinder and enjoying life even if I've spent triple what I could sell the car for today.:tongue: Peace

[96cali]

I get your point and I'm happy that members are taking another approach to modding these cars. But I'm even happier it's not my cabbages. :tongue:

[tiFreak]

Some people always have money on their mind. How much will it be worth if I do this? The motor costs more then the car. Why spend more on the car then it's worth or you will be able to sell it for?

that's not what I was thinking, just an observation, believe me, if I had 7k burning a hole in my pocket I'd probably do the same thing :biggrin:

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Hey I'm just bustin everyone's ballz cause my Dad told me and I quote.

"Why in the hell you would go and fcuk up a nice piece of German engineering, is beyond me". The only nice thing he said was "Shop sure is clean were they put that motor together, you can tell they take pride in their work-area"

[aceyx]

besides, I didnt charge a single cent for this motor - was saving slowly for the past 10 months for it
Nicely done on being responsible. Make sure to put a rider on your existing insurance though.

Thanks for sharing as well, car porn is always welcome.

[halcrontech]

Wow! Nice motor! The cam followers in your picture don't look like regular hydraulic lifters though (looks like roller followers). May I know what lifters are you using? Are they done by MM?

Thanks!

[crazy_hippo]

May I know what lifters are you using for the motor? Solid lifters?

[blowin 4]

hey marko looks good i got 4 weeks to go... did you ask them to take pix or do they do that with every build ...

[marko]

thanks.. yeah, I think they just do it anyway - I know by the time I remembered to ask for pix, Teddy already said he had some... good stuff.
I would remind him though...

hey marko looks good i got 4 weeks to go... did you ask them to take pix or do they do that with every build ...

[marko]

no, they are heavy duty hydro lifters - but for extreme high rpm motor applications they do offer heavy duty mechanical lifters as well.
see below...

http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdfs/metric-mechanic-m42-and-m44-engine-booklet.pdf

May I know what lifters are you using for the motor? Solid lifters?

[crazy_hippo]

no, they are heavy duty hydro lifters - but for extreme high rpm motor applications they do offer heavy duty mechanical lifters as well.
see below...

http://www.metricmechanic.com/pdfs/metric-mechanic-m42-and-m44-engine-booklet.pdf

whats shown in the picture seriously don't look like hydro lifters at all.

[crazy_hippo]

Oh I get it its M44 head, not M42. The valve train is different. Btw, which is better for high RPM? M44 head or M42 head?

[marko]

no idea - may wanna call metric.

which is better for high RPM? M44 head or M42 head?

[marko]

aaah, yes! she is finally here.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_1802.jpg?t=1235768520

all shiny and clean... LOL

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_1804.jpg?t=1235768648

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Man that's the same crate I got my motor on. Memories. I bet my oily finger prints are still on the sides in one or two spots.

Take lots of pictures...Pretty Please:biggrin:

[tiFreak]

lol, did they have you send the crate back so they could reuse it?

[blowin 4]

why did it come with an ac bracket ....

[blowin 4]

what series is that is it a rally with hi comp? are you going boost i spoke to teddy this afternoon he told be my block was bored . there just waiting for the machine shop to finish the crank i guess there doing the head work on monday cant wait !!! i hope my old engine holds up im boosting 21psi for the next 2weeks .....i will also be posting new pix of how to mod your stock dasc manifold with a aftercooler core that i will custom fab out of a radiator core stay tuned wont happen to the next couple of weeks...

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

i will also be posting new pix of how to mod your stock dasc manifold with a aftercooler core that i will custom fab out of a radiator core stay tuned wont happen to the next couple of weeks...

Please take pictures of the process. If it all works out I would like to show the pictures to my welder friend and see if he wants to fab me a custom manifold from scratch

[marko]

what series is that is it a rally with hi comp? are you going boost..


The engine itself is a 'frankenstein' one, even by MM's standards...

I originally wanted a rally/sport 2.0 M44 engine with lightweight pistons & rods, but Teddy thought it was not such a good idea since 11:1 compression on a boosted engine isn't too smart - so he suggested I go with MM's 2.0 Forced Induction engine, with beefier H-beam rods + turbo pistons @ 8.6:1.

I, however, did not want my compression dropped to 8.6:1, since I knew that I will not go past about 10-11psi of boost, and so such low compression would only result in decrease in overall hp, even with the DASC.

Soooooo, Teddy saw my logic and we agreed on a compromise - a 2.0L with FI internals, BUT @ as close as possible to stock compression.
I think he achieved this by combining an M42 FI piston with an M44 H-beam rod (or vice versa - I can't remember exactly) - in order to 'relocate' the wrist pin slightly and get as close to 10:1 as possible.

I have to say that above approach of 'dont worry - we'll figure out how to get you want you want - & make you happy' is what ultimatelly sold me on these guys... Plus the fact that they always took their time to explain everything to me without making me feel like an ass for my appearent lack of engine building knowledge.

I swear, if patience is a virtue - then Teddy is a VERY virtuous man! LOL :biggrin:

Also (again since the boost level is not too high), Teddy suggested MM's 258 intake cam ('to get as much air as possible into the chamber'), while maintaining a stock exh cam for good bottom end.

... oh yeah, the reason the ac bracket is on the motor is because of John, actually - I think he discovered some kind of an issue when he was installing his motor which was not shipped with one - so after that, MM decided to incude them as a part of the package... cant really remember what the problem was though...

John, what was the issue again?

[marko]

Man that's the same crate I got my motor on. Memories. I bet my oily finger prints are still on the sides in one or two spots.
Take lots of pictures...Pretty Please:biggrin:

You sent yours back? LOL :biggrin: Wait, if its a 'community' pallet, why did I pay 150 for it? LOL

F-it.. I'm keeping this one. LOL :biggrin:

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

John, what was the issue again?

MM does not like it's customers taking bolts out of the front cover to install brackets since this can cause oil leaks, especially if their name is John Smith. When I mounted my A/C bracket I was careless and did shalack the bolts or torque them. I created a small oil leak right where the two covers meet together. This was fixed very easy.

First let the area sit for a few hours then blow with air pressure, clean with brake cleaner, air pressure, brake cleaner, let sit until you don't see any oil dripping from the area. Then you loosen the top bolt and remove it from the bracket, stick a insulin needle with shalack in top side and bottom side of the gasket and inject only a tiny bit of goo then get the bolt all shalacked and torque it. Never leaked again. I screwed up 4 things when I did my motor and cummunicated all screw-ups to Jim with hopes that they could eliminate these types of end user errors for future customers.

Hey when you do your first compression test and flip out cause your cylinders are 10%-20% differential ask about the proper way to compression test a DASC'ed car. With Jim's help I just figured this out last week

[billm]

Very Nice!!

When do you plan on firing her up?

[marko]

spring! unfortunatelly...

got to save for some more stuff... re-map + injectors + maf + flywheel/clutch + oem replacement incidentals.

we'll keep all posted.

Very Nice!!

When do you plan on firing her up?

[lpcapital]

Very nice Marko!!! It looks like your choice of engine would probably be what I'll eventually do with mine, so I'll look forward on your install and feedback.

[billm]

Please do!

I just picked up (3) 318ti Part Cars to help finish mine up. 2 mtechs 1 cali.
If you need another deal on motors let me know I got a stack of 3!!





spring! unfortunatelly...

got to save for some more stuff... re-map + injectors + maf + flywheel/clutch + oem replacement incidentals.

we'll keep all posted.

[budget76]

Please do!

I just picked up (3) 318ti Part Cars to help finish mine up. 2 mtechs 1 cali.
If you need another deal on motors let me know I got a stack of 3!!

WTF, why can you find e36 parts cars. I've been looking so I can make some money on the side, and have found NOTHING in the last two months :frown:

Oh yeah, how much for a set of the mtech moldings?

[marko]

here is a list of all OEM parts I will replace while swapping the motor - for ultimate reliability...
Teddy from MM offered to source these parts for me and actually sell them to me for waaay less than it would cost me through regular chanels (pelican parts / dealership, etc). i.e. he'll make no profit on them & he'll give me wholesale price they get!

OEM Part. # Descr.
11811441377 - engine mounts (x2)
12141247993 - ping sensor (knock sensor)
12141247622 - pulse generator crank. (crank sensor)
11781247406 - O2 sensor lambda
11781739845 - O2 sensor lambda
13621703993 - double temp switch
12617568480 - oil pressure switch
12141743072 - triger contact (cam sensor)

12311247310 - alternator (compact Valeo)
12321739435 - voltage regulator (for compact alternator ONLY)

12411740379 - starter

11611734684 - int. manifold gasket (if applicable to DASC int. manif.)
18301711969 - cat. conv. gasket
11621435366 - exhaust manif. gasket (x2)
11421709800 - oil filter housing gasket

11421432228 - oil filter housing bushing
11421709513 - oil filter housing o-ring (x2)

11531743535 - coolant hose
11531247261 - coolant hose
11531743295 - coolant hose
11531247398 - coolant hose
64211394295 - coolant hose
64211387010 - coolant hose
11531714738 - coolant connector (plastic)
11531743679 - coolant connector (plastic)

11510393338 - water pump (metal impaler ONLY)
xxxxxxxxxxx - OEM radiator + expansion tank

13711247031 - rubber elbow for NON ASC+T cars (for upcoming ASC+T delete mod!)

plus all the FUN stuff, still pending... to go with the new MM motor.
MM's clutch + flywheel package
larger injectors
larger MAF
remap + DISA delete mod + SAP delete mod

when its all said & done - my car should be good for at least another 172K! LOL :)

so yeah... its gonna take a while to save up for all this stuff :frown:

[budget76]

Marko, if the 4cyl rad is the same as the 6, which I think it is, I HIGHLY suggest getting the all aluminum radiator off of ebay vs an OEM plastic one. It's like $20 more, and great quality. I've got over 5k miles on it with no problems, not that I expected any, and the motor runs about 5* cooler. If you search under my name on bimmerforums, I have a thread about it.

[marko]

nice, thanks...

yeah, I have seen those - but I didn't see the expansion tank with them.

does an OEM expansion tank fit the ebay alum. radiator?


Marko, if the 4cyl rad is the same as the 6, which I think it is, I HIGHLY suggest getting the all aluminum radiator off of ebay vs an OEM plastic one. It's like $20 more, and great quality. I've got over 5k miles on it with no problems, not that I expected any, and the motor runs about 5* cooler. If you search under my name on bimmerforums, I have a thread about it.

[pnosker]

4 cyl and 6 cyl have different radiators.

By the way, I'm so happy for you Marko!! You're gonna have to let me try out your car :)... Till then, come down to the meet next weekend or the weekend after. You can play around with my car. I can't believe it's finally happening!!!!

Selling anything from your current car that I might find interesting?

[tiFreak]

Teddy from MM offered to source these parts for me and actually sell them to me for waaay less than it would cost me through regular chanels (pelican parts / dealership, etc). i.e. he'll make no profit on them & he'll give me wholesale price they get!

how did you get him to agree to that? they sure don't mess around with customer satisfaction :eek:

[Mad-Machine]

I got 130,000 on my engine.. and I can only guess how abused it was before I got it.. I may look into an MM engine

[budget76]

Pat said they're different, so never mind in your case, but FWIW the OEM expansion tank fits on the Alum rad. The stock shroud/bracket fits on the radiator. This is with 6cyls, anyway.

[marko]

hey, whats up man... thanks for the rear strut info.

yeah its happening - but still some ways away... definatelly early part of spring, though.

budget76 & you are welcome to come buy and hang when I pull the motor out - since you are both in Jersey...

as for parts - the original motor is going to MM, again, as further discount on parts I still need to get from them - and the rest is pretty much just gonna be high milage OEM stuff which I replaced...

I think I'll have a garage sale for all the stuff that still works.

4 cyl and 6 cyl have different radiators.

By the way, I'm so happy for you Marko!! You're gonna have to let me try out your car :)... Till then, come down to the meet next weekend or the weekend after. You can play around with my car. I can't believe it's finally happening!!!!

Selling anything from your current car that I might find interesting?

[marko]

he offered it... when I mentioned that I was considering calling a stealership for all the OEM stuff I need.

how did you get him to agree to that? they sure don't mess around with customer satisfaction :eek:

[marko]

My engine swap has been tentativelly set for next weekend (5/16 & 5/17)!:biggrin:

Ordering a whole bunch of OEM parts form MM today + their LTW Flywheel / Clutch kit & the 42.5lb injectors... also picking up an engine hoist from a buddy of mine tonight.

If all goes well, the new motor should be in by Sunday night... :joy:

Unfortunatelly, once installed a carrier is coming to pick it up & take it to MM for proper tuning - as I can not remote tune it.:frown:

But hey, whats another week or two of waiting... LOL :tongue:

P.S. - pnosker / mad machine / budget76 if you guys want, feel free to come by Saturday, as thats when the main teardown & swap will most likely happen... if you're up for it, let me knwo & I'll IM you my address. Cheers!

[marko]

well here we go... wasnt gonna do much tonight originally except lift / drain the car & get loaded, so I guess it was a successful night.. baby steps, baby steps.. LOL

P.S. - does anyone know WHERE the PICK UP points for the motor ARE??

MM 14lbs LTW flywheel & 240mm clutch assembly:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2551.jpg?t=1242446531
one perfectly goog Ti:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2550.jpg?t=1242446645
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2554.jpg?t=1242447077
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2552.jpg?t=1242447493
start of the pending carnage:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2555.jpg?t=1242446985
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2576.jpg?t=1242446811

[marko]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2578.jpg?t=1242446862
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2581.jpg?t=1242447695
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2582.jpg?t=1242447186
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2586.jpg?t=1242447283

done for the night...
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2588.jpg?t=1242447391

[blowin 4]

good to see that more and more ppl are starting to install mm motors ....nice keep us updated check out my manifold going on next sat as soon as my water / intercooler arrives .http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m11/tazy_01/CIMG0093.jpg

[marko]

mother of god, that is f*cking cool... more pics please!


good to see that more and more ppl are starting to install mm motors ....nice keep us updated check out my manifold going on next sat as soon as my water / intercooler arrives .[

[blowin 4]

next week when its installed ill email a bunch off pic....ill be putting down 400whp on 22 psi!!!! and with racing gas and meth ill be at mm limit but no need to go that far lol .

[marko]

sweet.. looking forward to it!

p.s - you wouldnt happen to know where the pick up points are on teh M44, would you??

not sure what to attach the chain to... :confused:

next week when its installed ill email a bunch off pic....ill be putting down 400whp on 22 psi!!!! and with racing gas and meth ill be at mm limit but no need to go that far lol .

[blowin 4]

mother of god, that is f*cking cool... more pics please!

a little tease ..http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m11/tazy_01/CIMG0029.jpg

[blowin 4]

theres a hook at at the back right above the starter... the factory hook gos on the front but it was replace my the dasc. so if u have it remove the dasc bracket and screw the factory hook plate back....u saved it i hope ...

[spidertri]

I hope everything goes smoothly marko, it's looking good so far. I wish I could be working on the car instead of taking finals tomorrow...

[pnosker]

Just wait till I get there tomorrow between 10-12 and I'll help you out! There's an eye you have to hook into in the front, and a bolt spot in the back. Just 2 points.

I can't wait!!!

[tiFreak]

I like the F- Off sticker :lol:

what's that thing over your front plate?

[blowin 4]

just custom made my injector adapters took about 2hours and less than $ 11.00 thanks to lowes hardware store lol...with a few modshttp://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m11/tazy_01/CIMG0106.jpg

[marko]

well, it is out - but man, this is some serious ****... simply overwelmed by the sheer amount of wires & connectors in the bay... I think it'll take me 4 weeks to figure this out! LOL

Pat. thanks for coming by! If it werent for you & the rest of my buddies, I'd never get as far as I did today...

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2612.jpg?t=1242530921
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2618.jpg?t=1242530962
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2627.jpg?t=1242531001
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2629.jpg?t=1242531044
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2631.jpg?t=1242531100
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2632.jpg?t=1242531147

[marko]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2634.jpg?t=1242531324
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2636.jpg?t=1242531362
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2637.jpg?t=1242531402
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2638.jpg?t=1242531442
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2639.jpg?t=1242531481
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2645.jpg?t=1242531522

& that's it for today...

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Why did you guys take the whole front end off? Is that need on the ti?

So did you get the motor in?

[pnosker]

Front end didn't take that much more time, and we pulled the tranny out with the motor which wouldn't have fit without the front end off. It wasn't that bad anyway. I wonder what got done today! I was only there for day 1 of the carnage. By the way, John, I'm back home from school for the summer so we can continue that project of ours... ;)

[marko]

well, Im certainly behind my original timeline.. but F-it.
we pretty much cleaned off as much as we could today and relocated all accesories onto the new motor... most importantly, we figured out what is what in terms of all the loose wiring in the car, since I made the cardinal mistake of NOT labeling anything as we were pulling the motor out.
despite it all, I'm glad to say the new motor is ready to be droped into the car.. who knows, have I not wasted 2 hours today locating a machine shop to tap & plug in the secondary air pump hole on the exhaust manifold, the engine just may have been droped in...
but, its all good... we'll drop it in next weekend - & I'll spend this week collecting a couple of extra incidentals I need to replace anyway...
better late than never, right? LOL

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2652.jpg?t=1242698509
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[marko]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2666.jpg?t=1242698806
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[minicoop900]

i think its upside down :P

looks good, wish i had the $ to get one

[marko]

yep, upside down allright.. just the way the swap is going LOL :biggrin:

i think its upside down :P
looks good, wish i had the $ to get one

[96cali]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2659.jpg?t=1242698671


I vote this pic for the yearly calendar. I'm so over outside beauty shots of finished cars. Plus this stuff is what this site is REALLY about. I love it! Congrats Marko!

[mohaughn]

Man, those motors all cleaned and painted up sure do look pretty..

[marko]

thanks man... LOL
I do feel the same...

thats my buddy Rad, an avid VW fanatic, whom throughout the current project keeps repeating 'f-this longitudinal RWD $h!t - get yourself a VW'.. :biggrin:



I vote this pic for the yearly calendar. I'm so over outside beauty shots of finished cars. Plus this stuff is what this site is REALLY about. I love it! Congrats Marko!

[marko]

In like flin! LOL :biggrin:

Well, not really like flin...
Once in, we had to pull it out & drop it in one more time, since we forgot to align the drive shaft spline with the tranny hole.. but whatever, now she is fully in.

Next day or two to button her up (hopefully) & then off to MM! LOL

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[Danny318]

could you have just turned the driveshaft? I dont understand can you explain the driveshaft spline ?

[marko]

could you have just turned the driveshaft? I dont understand can you explain the driveshaft spline ?

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/10-1.png?t=1243337848

centering sleeve into the guibo... needs to be alignes as the motor & trany are being droped in.

[Xenocide]

...no it doesn't...I never had to do that..

Any reason you didn't do a coil on plug conversion?

[marko]

I saw no other way of doing it... was missing about half inch of room... so lifting the motor up by a fraction in order to place the diff shaft sleeve into the guibo, was the only reasonable option at the time. In any case... task completed - end of story.

EDIT: maybe I'm explaining it wrong... circled below is what I had trouble fitting into the guibo (which was still attached to the drive shaft)! needed more room...

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/untitled-1.jpg?t=1243345886

Since you done the swap.. maybe you answer this for me... I'm kinda stuck.
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=26850



...no it doesn't...I never had to do that..

Any reason you didn't do a coil on plug conversion?

[Xenocide]

I saw that thread. Couldn't remember off the top of my head. Problem is I converted my PS setup to a 6cyl setup. Not sure if that hose was changed.

As for the driveshaft, usually it fits fine if you leave the center support bearing unbolted, it should be the last to go into place.

IIRC that black plastic canister goes somewhere between the upper and lower manifold, I think it was bolted onto the side under the upper intake manifold.

[marko]

what does the 6 cyl P/S set up consist of? is the pump bigger??

I have a 300mm wheel now.. & due to the fact that the smaller diameter makes it more difficult to turn, I was conteplating getting a bigger P/S pump to compensate...

would that work?

I saw that thread. Couldn't remember off the top of my head. Problem is I converted my PS setup to a 6cyl setup. Not sure if that hose was changed.

[Xenocide]

no clue if the pump or pulley is bigger, it all came on my motor. Just cross-list it on RealOEM. The PS res is relocated onto the metal engine mount arm. If the PS pump was to be in the 4cyl location the alternator would hit it. I sawzalled off the bracket to hold the PS pump as the alternator was still hitting it. Hoses are different and the cooler is different as well.

[cracker red]

DAMN thats a clean motor. There's more $$$ in that motor than I'll have in my entire car + M52 + turbo setup....but it's DAMN nice looking :D

[marko]

and it continues...

last weekend we did not get much done - holiday weekend and all (bbqs / parties / PBRs, etc) - so we made a point to finish it this weekend.

we made great strides - connected everything - buttoned her up & filled all the fluids.

had one last beer, congratulated ourselves, & I went to start her up!

I turned the key & she made a noise like a bug getting zapped by the backyard 'bugzapper', and that was all she wrote.

after that.. simply NOTHING.

judging by the sound she made, we probably fried the starter or some similar...

game over for now!

was a great learning experince & some good fun.. now, however, its time for the pros to fix her up (no way I'm pulling everything out to get to the starter, if that is indeed it).

she'll be towed soon.. either to Metric directly, or localy to get her going first, then to Metric for a tune.

Cheers for now - till the next episode... interior & exterior once she is sorted mechanically.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2686.jpg?t=1243814613
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[blowin 4]

lol got to love the sensor in the air cone classic sweet job .....

[marko]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2693.jpg?t=1243814864
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[marko]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2706.jpg?t=1243815133
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2708.jpg?t=1243815198

[Xenocide]

Man, you guys reassembled the front clip before starting it? that was brave. I started mine with nothing on the front, just to make sure it ran before I put all the bits back together. Last thing I wanted to do was tear everything apart.

[marko]

that was brave..

yeah! brave all-right.. & incredibely DUMB :biggrin:

oh well, live & learn & guess... :redface:

[Xenocide]

Really don't want to try fixing it before sending it off to a mechanic? Send me a PM or something Ill give you my cell, you can text me or call me if you want to troubleshoot.

[marko]

well, I think it is electrical in nature.. in fact I'm almost certain it is & I, however, suck at diagnosing electrical issues.

currently, when you turn the key, the dome lights / the dash lights & the clock on the radio turn on as normal, but nothing happens when you try to turn her over...

also, the windows wont go up or down... :confused:

Really don't want to try fixing it before sending it off to a mechanic? Send me a PM or something Ill give you my cell, you can text me or call me if you want to troubleshoot.

[Xenocide]

I had the same problem, spend a whole day trying to trace all my wires. I had a nearly new battery when I started the swap but just let it sit in the garage for a month and a half. Charged it up overnight, car started right up.

Is your battery fully charged?

[marko]

well, its an old battery.. but it worked Ok before the swap.

think if I try to jump her, I may make thisngs worse??

I mean she did make a not-so-pleasant noise when I tried to turn her over the first time...

I had the same problem, spend a whole day trying to trace all my wires. I had a nearly new battery when I started the swap but just let it sit in the garage for a month and a half. Charged it up overnight, car started right up.

Is your battery fully charged?

[Xenocide]

Can you describe the noise a little more?? Any bad smells??? As long as you didn't catch anything on fire you might be fine haha. Check for 12V at your starter, and check your DME relay.

[marko]

well, I just spoke to Teddy from Metric, no more than 10 mins ago, and was told the starter is definitelly the problem.

he does not believe that it is fried per say, however he does certainly think that it is either wired the wrong way OR that I simply did not connect a ground properly elswhere.

once I mentioned windows did not work, he said 'yep, thats it'.. as it hapened to him in the same way once before.

anyway, I'll look into it again this week... and if it all else fails, they'll try to arrange a pick up of a non-running car.

Can you describe the noise a little more?? Any bad smells??? As long as you didn't catch anything on fire you might be fine haha. Check for 12V at your starter, and check your DME relay.

[Xenocide]

good luck. Check for voltage on your starter. I don't see how you can wire it wrong though, if the wire doesn't fit it don't go there :)

[Flametail]

Just did my starter last weekend. There is no way to mix up the wires except for the big ones...as long a the small one is on the small bolt, the medium on the medium, and the 2 large red wires on the large bolt, then it's wired correctly. Check the relay, that's what mine ended up being.

[minicoop900]

ive never heard of a starter being related to the windows, their on completely different circuits, it sounds like relay/ low power, check the relay then try a jump.

[marko]

that was our logic too.. we were convinced we had it right - or should I say, the only way it could go. maybe its just a ground elswhere.

good luck. Check for voltage on your starter. I don't see how you can wire it wrong though, if the wire doesn't fit it don't go there :)

not sure why the windows are important in this equation, but Teddy said that it makes sense as he wired the starter the wrong way once, and the windows did not work for some reasonn... some to do with 'the electrical loop not being closed' properly.

[Xenocide]

you could have a short in it, but I would think that would cost most other accessories to not function as well.

Obviously he has more experience with cars than I do though :)

[marko]

and off to Metric she is... by one of Metric crew, no less. LOL
when she comes back, she should see 210WHP, I'm told (as per true to life 'heavy' loaded dyno - & not that 'zero load' Mustang Dyno BS)! :twisted:

hmmm.. its gonna be long 2 weeks or so.. LOL

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2709.jpg?t=1244345219
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[marko]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_2718.jpg?t=1244345762
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[blowin 4]

that was our logic too.. we were convinced we had it right - or should I say, the only way it could go. maybe its just a ground elswhere.



not sure why the windows are important in this equation, but Teddy said that it makes sense as he wired the starter the wrong way once, and the windows did not work for some reasonn... some to do with 'the electrical loop not being closed' properly.

there is noway in the world you wired the starter wrong. check the ground cable at the engine block if thats good. check the battery post are not contacting even tho there tight .remove then clean them up should work As far as the winows not working the module behind the glove box must of lost its memory dew to low bat . pull the battery cables clean them wait 5 min then hook them up you starter solenoid must of went out . there is no relay for the starter ...is you fly wheel the right size it could be off on the teeth but i think i read you got a set up from teddy good luck im sure its the cables...

[Jean H.318TI]

i want one of these engines so bad ;(

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

The starter and windows not working are related on my 1997. The key curcuit and windows take power from the same curcuit. I had the same problem while working on my windows, blew a fuse and the car wouldn't start. At least that is what I remember or maybe it was a dream

[Flametail]

Either way the car is off to get some serious power so it's up to Metric to figure it out at this point. lol

[marko]

matric called... car didnt start cause the motronic relay is busted - & not due to wrong wiring or a short. it happens to 1 out 10 engine swaps, for some reason - but it is a $14 part, so who cares.

now onto more fun stuff :frown:.. I'm told I need a Snow alcohol / water injection system to cool the charge.

appearently, to max out the set up with a 3 inch pulley @ 13 lbs of boost, I would be frying O2 sensors on regular basis as well as experincing some serious exhaust temps if I'm not to do the alc / h2o injection.

I know people have done it successfully, but it still makes me uneasy to do this - not to mention it is about $500.

http://www.snowperformance.net/products.php?p_cat=173

Oh well, at least it will give me a few extra ponnies on top of everything.

[pnosker]

Damn! I hate when that happens! :-p

I can't wait by the way. Are you getting the RRFPR removed and some real injectors put in there? I would just stick with 10 PSI so you don't need to worry about meth injection-- but if you get it done right, maybe I'll just copy you ;).

Oh, PS. Might be picking up another nice Alaska Blue ti with a DASC soon. *Cross fingers*

[marko]

yeah, its happening... & I'm sure they'll do it right. we talked, I asked what he thought... he said, 'F it - since you wanna max it out, may as well just bite the bullet'...

it should be interesting... cant wait to get this thing back.
got high hopes for it in terms of actual power now that the charge wil be cooled - I hope it don't disappoint.

Damn! I hate when that happens! :-p

I can't wait by the way. Are you getting the RRFPR removed and some real injectors put in there? I would just stick with 10 PSI so you don't need to worry about meth injection-- but if you get it done right, maybe I'll just copy you ;).

Oh, PS. Might be picking up another nice Alaska Blue ti with a DASC soon. *Cross fingers*

[Danny318]

where are they going to inject the mixture? I've read a lot that its bad it inject it pre-supercharger. So that only leaves tapping the manifold and injecting directly there.

[marko]

Oh, I'm almost positve they will tap the manifold & do it post supercharger... It wouldn't make sense to do it pre SC, I would think.

where are they going to inject the mixture? I've read a lot that its bad it inject it pre-supercharger. So that only leaves tapping the manifold and injecting directly there.

[Danny318]

good, i think that is what i will do.

[Danny318]

hows it going

[marko]

hoping this is the last week of a wait... will talk to them tomorow & hopefully get some good news.

oh yeah, they installed the snow system pre-supercharger... so it would mix with the air properly. otherwise, if done post blower, some cylinders (closest) to the nozzle get the cooling but the others dont.

[lpcapital]

oh yeah, they installed the snow system pre-supercharger...

I thought that was a no-no because the alcohol would remove the Teflon coat on the SC rotors... Or no? I'm dumb on water injection, that's just what I read in the DustenT FI FAQ... I'm sure MM knows... Just asking... :cool:

[pnosker]

No, that's when you run injection of the stuff he used (almost paint thinner-- Denatured alcohol, which is ethanol and usually methyl isobutyl ketone which is a very strong solvent). Running with washer fluid or methanol/water 50/50 is alright.

[lpcapital]

No, that's when you run injection of the stuff he used (almost paint thinner-- Denatured alcohol, which is ethanol and usually methyl isobutyl ketone which is a very strong solvent). Running with washer fluid or methanol/water 50/50 is alright.

Good to know!!!! Thanks for the clarification...

Btw, you really mean "washer fluid"... I mean, that's it... 99cents per gallon at Walmart...

[marko]

yes, thats what he means LOL

but there is no way I'm using the washer fluid - I'll get ethanol & distiled water. LOL

Good to know!!!! Thanks for the clarification...

Btw, you really mean "washer fluid"... I mean, that's it... 99cents per gallon at Walmart...

[lpcapital]

yes, thats what he means LOL

but there is no way I'm using the washer fluid - I'll get ethanol & distiled water. LOL

Well, the advantage of that is that with one single tank you have both and there's no way that the elementary school drop-out that does smog inspection will know what he's looking at... ehehehe

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

I heard this one is leaving the shop. Is that true Marko?

[pnosker]

Marko, don't use ethanol. At least use methanol/water pre-mixed. I use washer fluid because the blue dye is in such a low concentration that it isn't significant at all. I add 1 bottle of HEET per bottle of washer fluid to bring the concentration up to around 40% methanol. It works very well.

[marko]

so I heard... but its already saturday & still no word of departure.
teddy said he'll try to make it up here by sunday - possibly monday.

we'll see.


last dyno pull 198WHP (@1300 ft. of elevation - warm Missouri day - fully loaded dyno), but they will revise on least time before they hit the road & do one final pull to see if they can break 200 (since the guy who does the program saw some more room for improvement, based on the latest log they sent him)... 200 WHP is the benchmark I gave them.

getting excited, John! we'll see... LOL :)

I heard this one is leaving the shop. Is that true Marko?

[marko]

not very well versed in the system yet.. I guess I'll just by the 1st gallon of premix from Snow directly, till I figure out whats what... LOL

we should get together when my car is back.. courious to see what you did, & God knows I still owe you money... LOL

Marko, don't use ethanol. At least use methanol/water pre-mixed. I use washer fluid because the blue dye is in such a low concentration that it isn't significant at all. I add 1 bottle of HEET per bottle of washer fluid to bring the concentration up to around 40% methanol. It works very well.

[pnosker]

Damn dude... I'm pulling 230 with the 3.2" pulley...\

OH YEAH I COMPLETELY FORGOT!! I need to buy some new gaskets lol... and I'm broke so yes that's a good idea. You'll enjoy my car a lot as I'm sure to enjoy yours too. It's in the shop getting some rust repaired but in a couple weeks when I'm home for a day we definitely should. I'm at Rutgers now so I guess it's not too far from you.

[black318i]

189 for me on an M42 with a 3.6 and tuning

[marko]

202 on the wheels! & still working! Soon as it's done, trailer time.. Love theese guys! LoL.
Damn dude... I'm pulling 230 with the 3.2" pulley...\

OH YEAH I COMPLETELY FORGOT!! I need to buy some new gaskets lol... and I'm broke so yes that's a good idea. You'll enjoy my car a lot as I'm sure to enjoy yours too. It's in the shop getting some rust repaired but in a couple weeks when I'm home for a day we definitely should. I'm at Rutgers now so I guess it's not too far from you.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

202 on the wheels! & still working! Soon as it's done, trailer time.. Love theese guys! LoL.

Marko did they take down the DASC snout so you can fit a 3" pulley if your not boosting 15psi when you get the car?

I would think at minimum 240rwhp in the same conditions Pat did his dyno since your running close to stock compression and a slight stroke.


What psi boost are they running for 202? 13psi?

Doesn't sound right unless 3000ft makes that much of a difference

[marko]

Not sure... They said they may. Still not sure how pat got 230 whp. Right now, though, 202 on 3.2 plus 42 lb injectors. Once done I will dyno it on pat's machine too. sounds crazy he got 230 while I got only 202! Boost right now is at 12-13 pounds...

Marko did they take down the DASC snout so you can fit a 3" pulley if your not boosting 15psi when you get the car? I would think at minimum 240rwhp in the same conditions Pat did his dyno since your running close to stock compression and a slight stroke. What psi boost are they running for 202? 13psi? Doesn't sound right unless 3000ft makes that much of a difference

[black318i]

So how much boost is the 3.2 good for on your engine?

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Not sure... They said they may. Still not sure how pat got 230 whp. Right now, though, 202 on 3.2 plus 42 lb injectors. Once done I will dyno it on pat's machine too. sounds crazy he got 230 while I got only 202! Boost right now is at 12-13 pounds...

No Pat is about right on his numbers. My stock 1.9L on the 3.2" made 15psi and the G-tech and ET's said 236hp on my best run in the winter. I think you might have lower then stock compression so there is more cylinder room for more boost. If a 3.2" is only making 12-13psi you need a smaller pulley to get 15psi. If you slam 15psi in a bigger combustion chamber (since you have lower then stock compression) you will make more hp then a stock combustion chamber motor. Also I think you have a slight stroke which will give more troque from the better rod angle on the crank and additional dwell at TDC & BDC.

Ask to have the SC snout ground for a 3.0" pulley. I think your under boosted for your compression. Motors that have less compression loose HP much quicker if they are not boosted higher. Also if your compression is lower then stock you can run over 15psi:biggrin:

Now what is your compression ratio??

[pnosker]

I would imagine you could make 250 hp easily.

[marko]

john, actually no clue as to the exact boost... teddy said they tried, but backed off the 3.0 pulley as it was getting close to 15 ft. pounds (!) - & he didnt like the idea of it for some reason... said 9.8:1 is almost stock comp.

he said with a 3.2 & was between 12 & 13 roughly - which at our altitude is more like 14+... anyway, car was supposed to be here today (or tomorrow), but I didnt get a call of any kind yet.

I'll let you know all the details, once I meet teddy, get the car & get all the info... all I know so far is the it was leaning out like mad with 38 punders, above 6300 - so they popped the 42 punders back in & retuned it.

hey, one more thing.. are you planning to pass through jersey in a forseeable future? I think Pat & I would like to hook up with you & see whats what with these cars. Let us know dude...

No Pat is about right on his numbers. My stock 1.9L on the 3.2" made 15psi and the G-tech and ET's said 236hp on my best run in the winter. I think you might have lower then stock compression so there is more cylinder room for more boost. If a 3.2" is only making 12-13psi you need a smaller pulley to get 15psi. If you slam 15psi in a bigger combustion chamber (since you have lower then stock compression) you will make more hp then a stock combustion chamber motor. Also I think you have a slight stroke which will give more troque from the better rod angle on the crank and additional dwell at TDC & BDC.

Ask to have the SC snout ground for a 3.0" pulley. I think your under boosted for your compression. Motors that have less compression loose HP much quicker if they are not boosted higher. Also if your compression is lower then stock you can run over 15psi:biggrin:

Now what is your compression ratio??

[marko]

hey pat, where did you dyno the car? I will go with you once I get this thing back & we'll give it a go on the dyno you used...

I'm quite happy with 202 on the wheels, though I'm just curious how come you are 28 WHP above & beyond my actual numbers.
your car must be sick, dude! LOL :) 230 WHP is like 280 @ the flywheel! :eek: sick :biggrin:
you sure they loaded the dyno properly?? :icon_poke



I would imagine you could make 250 hp easily.

[pnosker]

I did it at Crazy Horse dyno in Perth Amboy, it's a Dynojet.

It makes sense to me... 15 pounds of boost is more than 2x atmospheric pressure so it's a little less than twice the hp of the stock motor but it can revv higher (300 rpm) and with boost highest hp is at redline. I was making 200 hp flat with the 3.4" pulley and 10 psi with no meth. 14 psi with meth makes a lot of sense to push 230 hp.

We'll go sometime when I'm home. They're great guys. $50 cash for 3 dyno pulls too, can't beat that.

I can't wait to check your car out!!! It's going to OWN!

PS: BTW get one of the CF hoods I'm ordering! crazy cheap!

[marko]

PS: BTW get one of the CF hoods I'm ordering! crazy cheap!

yeah? how much?? does it fit right??? I want one, ultimatelly...

[pnosker]

Like $465... I think so, we'll see once they get here. I should have 3 extra that my dad's buying at that price.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

john, actually no clue as to the exact boost... teddy said they tried, but backed off the 3.0 pulley as it was getting close to 15 ft. pounds (!) - & he didnt like the idea of it for some reason... said 9.8:1 is almost stock comp.

he said with a 3.2 & was between 12 & 13 roughly - which at our altitude is more like 14+... anyway, car was supposed to be here today (or tomorrow), but I didnt get a call of any kind yet.

I'll let you know all the details, once I meet teddy, get the car & get all the info... all I know so far is the it was leaning out like mad with 38 punders, above 6300 - so they popped the 42 punders back in & retuned it.

hey, one more thing.. are you planning to pass through jersey in a forseeable future? I think Pat & I would like to hook up with you & see whats what with these cars. Let us know dude...

Ok I discussed 15psi at 3000ft with Teddy about two months ago when we discussed the Snow setup. We both agreed no it was a bad idea. I remember we discussed send the car with the snout ground for a 3" pulley just in case when you got it at sea level the 3.2" didn't net you 15psi. We were worried it would make over 15psi at sea level if it was at 15psi at 3000ft then taken to sea level. I hope I didn't contribute to detuning your motor, it was done with motor safety the first priority...

I'm really hoping the extra stroke (.1L) has changed the cylinder volume and compression to a point were the motor needs more pulley then the 3.2". This is a learning situation for everyone since Metric does not build FI motors with close to stock compression and I don't have any experience either...

If it will take the 3" pulley at sea level that sucker will really wake up throughout the whole rpm range. I've found the magical boost number for 10:1 motors is 15psi (Also the maximum I would run). That sucker should fly at 15psi so you may be doing a pulley change immediately when you get the motor. Then again it might be at 15psi at sea level like we are predicting and be ready to slap Pat around when you guys line up for the first time and play:biggrin:

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Mark ~ On Methanol. Call any local chemical distributer. Ask for 5 gallons of Methanol. It should be around $2.50 a gallon. If they ask what you need it for tell them your making Bio Diesel. When you get there they will want to sell you lime (the other part nneded for bio Diesel), just tell them you already have enough left over from the last batch.

Mixing ~ Meth is poision so protect your eyes and skin. I mix 50/50 water and meth in 1 gallon containers (old washer fluid containers). Walmart has good washer fluid for injecting, check for the meth content before you buy, the colder the rating the higher the meth content. If you don't like the coloring throw it away but I've run it with no issues. As Pat has stated Heet product is Meth and will rate you % in your washer fluid.

5 gallons of meth lasts me a year:tongue:

[marko]

thanks John.... I just spoke to teddy & appearently they are waiting for Courtney to fix the trailer he just bought. they are both ready & packed & so as soon as they fix the trailer, they say they'll be on the way.

I think he did indeed machine the snout to accomodate the 3.0 pulley, so I still have an option... when I asked what the final numbers were, after a long night on the dyno, his exact words were "do not even wanna tell you.. if you thought you were happy with 202, then I think you'll be really happy with I'm gonna bring you!"... with dyno videos, dyno graphs and pics, etc!

one last question... wouldn't a 3.0 pulley require yet one more retune, unless the car is puke rich right now, across the entire band??

if the loss indeed is about 25%, then I will be more than happy with results as is... that would be at least about 250hp, which is quite enough for me.:smile: they said they dyno-ed his e36 m3 too & it put down 192WHP. :biggrin:

also, dyno he used is a Powerflow Dyno 600 series, I think.


Ok I discussed 15psi at 3000ft with Teddy about two months ago when we discussed the Snow setup. We both agreed no it was a bad idea. I remember we discussed send the car with the snout ground for a 3" pulley just in case when you got it at sea level the 3.2" didn't net you 15psi. We were worried it would make over 15psi at sea level if it was at 15psi at 3000ft then taken to sea level. I hope I didn't contribute to detuning your motor, it was done with motor safety the first priority...

I'm really hoping the extra stroke (.1L) has changed the cylinder volume and compression to a point were the motor needs more pulley then the 3.2". This is a learning situation for everyone since Metric does not build FI motors with close to stock compression and I don't have any experience either...

If it will take the 3" pulley at sea level that sucker will really wake up throughout the whole rpm range. I've found the magical boost number for 10:1 motors is 15psi (Also the maximum I would run). That sucker should fly at 15psi so you may be doing a pulley change immediately when you get the motor. Then again it might be at 15psi at sea level like we are predicting and be ready to slap Pat around when you guys line up for the first time and play:biggrin:

[pnosker]

thanks John.... I just spoke to teddy & appearently they are waiting for Courtney to fix the trailer he just bought. they are both ready & packed & so as soon as they fix the trailer, they say they'll be on the way.

I think he did indeed machine the snout to accomodate the 3.0 pulley, so I still have an option... when I asked what the final numbers were, after a long night on the dyno, his exact words were "do not even wanna tell you.. if you thought you were happy with 202, then I think you'll be really happy with I'm gonna bring you!"... with dyno videos, dyno graphs and pics, etc!

one last question... wouldn't a 3.0 pulley require yet one more retune, unless the car is puke rich right now, across the entire band??

if the loss indeed is about 25%, then I will be more than happy with results as is... that would be at least about 250hp, which is quite enough for me.:smile: they said they dyno-ed his e36 m3 too & it put down 192WHP. :biggrin:

also, dyno he used is a Powerflow Dyno 600 series, I think.

AWESOME!! I CANNOT WAIT!!!

And, pulley shouldn't require a retune. Just more air = ECU adjusts for more fuel. It should be alright. e36 M3's are way slower than my car now, and I have a 2.93 diff... so you should totally DOMINATE them. I bet you'll be faster than an E46 M3.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

thanks John.... I just spoke to teddy & appearently they are waiting for Courtney to fix the trailer he just bought. they are both ready & packed & so as soon as they fix the trailer, they say they'll be on the way.

I think he did indeed machine the snout to accomodate the 3.0 pulley, so I still have an option... when I asked what the final numbers were, after a long night on the dyno, his exact words were "do not even wanna tell you.. if you thought you were happy with 202, then I think you'll be really happy with I'm gonna bring you!"... with dyno videos, dyno graphs and pics, etc!

one last question... wouldn't a 3.0 pulley require yet one more retune, unless the car is puke rich right now, across the entire band??

if the loss indeed is about 25%, then I will be more than happy with results as is... that would be at least about 250hp, which is quite enough for me.:smile: they said they dyno-ed his e36 m3 too & it put down 192WHP. :biggrin:

also, dyno he used is a Powerflow Dyno 600 series, I think.

No once the DME is tuned that is it, the really neat thing is the MAF and other sensors can detect the additional boost and inject accordingly. The only thing that needs to be kept constant that will hurt performance is timing and a small bump like 4-5psi won't hurt. I'm going to run 15-30 psi on 1 tune with 60# injectors and a 450hp meth jet. My timing will be tuned for 25psi

[marko]

she came home last night!!!!

drove her with teddy for the first time.. didnt pass 5K, was overly cautious - all the while he kept saying 'whats wrong man? step on her! dont baby her!' LOL

drove her this morning to work on the parkway... was doing 80mph when I popped into 4th (from 5th), FLOORED HER & kept my foot down till she reached almost 7K- holly crap - I was doing 110 in a flash! insane...

changed the oil tonight, took her out with a friend... hit 7K in 2nd... 6K+in 3rd & then RAN OUT OF ROAD! LOL way passed the speed limit... LOL still feel guilty hammering her down - feels like she's gonna blow for some reason.. though I've been told repeatedly that she'll hold. LOL

falling in love with her, but we are still slowly getting re-aquainted... keep missing shifts as I'm not used to the high rpms! I think my sloppy shifter is partially to blame to - will need a short shift kit & new bushings all around soon.

up to 3K she feels her old self... 3K to 5K she starts to wake up and starts becoming angry... 5K to 7K+ she is simply rabbid/violent! mad ****... can't get used to pushing a car to such high rpms.

205 whp @ 7,100rpm (while teddy's e36 m3 that laid down only 192whp - LOL :)) with just 10-12 psi range (didnt see the boost gauge go past 11psi) with a 3.2 inch pulley... cant wait to pop on a 3 inch pulley in the future.

dyno graph to follow shortly (teddy never brought it).

2 things that bug me so far are that she hunts for idle, once in a while (becoming more rare as the miles keep on rolling) + she wont turn over easily without pressing the gas ONLY when warm (though she fires right up, when cold?!)
I told teddy that I wont get too excited about it as the ECU is probalby 're-learning' its stuff.. but if it persist, we'll have to address it.

on the other hand, once started and warmed up - she just feels real tight & solid.

more details to come...

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_3432.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_3434.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_3436.jpg

[tiFreak]

well someone seems happy :lol:

[96cali]

you need my red millpoint interior to make it REALLY special though. :rolleyes:

j/k sounds like a freakin dream!

[pnosker]

Damn dude... now you need a 3.25 LSD. I had a lot of traction trouble with my 3.46 LSD and my 2.93 is a little slower than I wanted. I have a spare 3.25 LSD at home waiting to go in though. Let me know when you can meet up with me. I gotta first get my car back from the body shop...

[marko]

learned a bit more about the 'tune' on the car... am convinced that it is actually 'under-boosted' & as I just about barelly hit 12 on the gauge @ 7,100(thanks John!)... sent teddy an IM asking him to order me a 3.0 pulley!

gonna get the 3.0 on - then its dyno time... want to really 'wake her up' as John said - and see if I can get more than 205 down on the ground! also, I was told that MM's dyno (at 3000ft elevation) seriously understates the HP.

we'll hook up real soon Pat! :smile:

Damn dude... now you need a 3.25 LSD. I had a lot of traction trouble with my 3.46 LSD and my 2.93 is a little slower than I wanted. I have a spare 3.25 LSD at home waiting to go in though. Let me know when you can meet up with me. I gotta first get my car back from the body shop...

[pnosker]

I would imagine at 3000 feet you should be around 15 hp under at sea level. I bet your car is a killer beast now.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Due to the addional stroke and cylinder volume the motor is now under boosted. It needs that 3" pulley to wake it up. My car made little to no power on the 3.2" pulley but became nasty on the smaller pulley. Only a few extra pounds makes it get in the happy zone. I think you will see great gains accross the entire RPM band with the smaller pulley. At 10-12psi I wouldn't even run Meth since it would be too fat and kill HP. At 15psi the Meth will do it's job and HP will multiply due to increased boost and leaner fuel mixture since the maps is setup for 15psi plus Meth. You will feel it in the seat of your pants and soon be looking for reasons to go for a drive, looking for cars to blow off the road:biggrin:

[pnosker]

I concur. Do that right now. This minute. Immediately after, drive to Rutgers and pick me up so I can check out your car :).

[cooljess76]

Shiiiiiii...........t! Your car is freakin awesome Marko!

[marko]

thanks for the encouragement guys!
also, thanks to our favorite madman (john), I indeed have a 3 inch pulley on order!

I finally got the dyno sheets from metric... will post soon enough.

then Pat & I are gonna visit a local dyno & see what happens with a 3 incher! ;)

[marko]

pat, need yout help! got the dyno download program from metric but I cant access since I'm on vacation - & my wife's work pc wont allow.

sending you something today so you could convert to JPEG for me! thanks buddy.

I concur. Do that right now. This minute. Immediately after, drive to Rutgers and pick me up so I can check out your car :).

[pnosker]

Here's Marko's dyno chart:

I have to say... DAMN!!! That's a great tune. Better than mine by far-- with the 3" pulley he should be pounding out 250 rwhp or more. I cannot WAIT!!!

Maybe you'll need a 2.8" pulley soon.

[pnosker]

I just realized that the dyno Marko had his ti tuned on has a 28% powertrain loss. The dyno I used has only a 15% powertrain loss. That means Marko is actually producing around 284 RWHP right now... which is RIDICULOUS!!!!!!

I am utterly astonished.

[tiFreak]

that is awesome, if I ever win the lottery first thing I'm doing is sending my car down to MM :biggrin:

[marko]

pat.. thanks for converting this to JPEG for me.

though I think it would be sick if the car was 284 - there is just no way. LOL

this is the formula I used to rationalize the data:

http://www.ovoonline.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/4x4_math.pdf

as per Wiiki - Richland, MO sits at 1130 feet of elevation - and if math from site below is correct - then the formula of HP loss vs. elevation is as follows...

205WHP x 1130ft. elevation x .03 / 1000 = loss of 6.9 WHP = actual WHP @ sea level is 211.9WHP + 15% loss between the output shaft & the ground (15% of 212 is 31.8) = 243.7BHP

all that with a 3.2 inch pulley! LOL cant wait till I receive the 3 inch pulley!! LOL

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/marko.jpg

still though - teddy's 98 M3 put down 'only' 192whp, while courtney's stock 318ti did only 100whp (below). crazy...

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/dyno20runs1.jpg

[pnosker]

Even easier if you have a baseline. You know the ti puts out 138 hp. Take the 100.5 hp it got, divide by 138, and then you have your correction factor. Their ti curve aligns perfectly with my Dynojet ti curve. So, they read 72.8% of real flywheel HP, whereas the drivetrain loss in the ti is around 15-16%.

[marko]

Ha! now you lost me... LOL :)

anyway - we'll dyno this thing after I get the 3 inch pulley & will see.
even if I get additional 10-15whp it is more than worth it! then we are talking about 225 to 235 on the wheels! Sick. way beyond what I expected. freaking nutz! LOL

I'll let you know whe the pulley gets here... :wink:


Even easier if you have a baseline. You know the ti puts out 138 hp. Take the 100.5 hp it got, divide by 138, and then you have your correction factor. Their ti curve aligns perfectly with my Dynojet ti curve. So, they read 72.8% of real flywheel HP, whereas the drivetrain loss in the ti is around 15-16%.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Ha! now you lost me... LOL :)

anyway - we'll dyno this thing after I get the 3 inch pulley & will see.
even if I get additional 10-15whp it is more than worth it! then we are talking about 225 to 235 on the wheels! Sick. way beyond what I expected. freaking nutz! LOL

I'll let you know whe the pulley gets here... :wink:


If you only get 15hp from a 3" pulley I will personally fly up there with my laptop & bag of tricks to find the problem. You better have at minimum 25rwhp more then Pat's stock ti. You do have basic tools if we need to degree the cams, right? Other then the cams the rest is all firmware related if it doesn't "come to life". I'm 95% sure 15psi will put that motor in it's happy zone on timing which will make a big difference plus the extra boost.

How far is it from 33711 to your house? I'm not kidding

Also while you wait on the 3" pulley try to run it without the meth on. At 12psi you will be ok and not way fat. You will see a increase from not spraying when you don't need it. The DME will not need to adapt to a no meth run since it is in open loop anyways at WOT and you want it to lean out. If it goes too lean don't worry, the DME will detect it through knock sensors and will limp mode immediately and you will get CEL mis-fire. I've done it 20+ times when tuning with no engine damage at all. The BMW DME is top knotch at protecting your engine...

[pnosker]

I'm almost positive you are putting down 242 rwhp right now. Different dynos have different correction factors. Ie. the Mustang dyno system has almost no correction factor for FWHP, the Dynojet has almost no correction factor to RWHP, and apparently the dyno they used has a correction factor for both. It's because there's losses in the Dyno drive system, as well as your power train that account for the losses. If you aren't putting out at least 230 rwhp, I would be VERY surprised because I'm putting out 231 and your engine has larger displacement, advanced timing, and with a 3.2" pulley, you're putting the same amount of air in as I am... and since it's lower pressure you have higher efficiency.

[marko]

pat / john... I like what you are both saying. I was only guessing on the possible gain. Just trying to be conservative. I'd rather be pleasently surprised than dissapointed.

Last time I drove it, it felt real solid & consistant in terms of pulling. It just kept getting faster & faster through the rmp range - never feeling like it was platoeing up until it went just above 7K.

john, my zip is 07716 - & I think that both pat & I would be psyched if you came up with your laptop. LOL :)

anyway - will play with the car a bit more when I get home a week from now - & I'll keep you posted.

oh, yeah! pat was there in courtney's email a chart that was just for my car vs. all 3 combined??
sorry to bug you dude - but if you got one just for my car, please email to me. I'll buy you a beer when we meet up...

[pnosker]

Here you go

[marko]

thx pat!

Here you go

[marko]

seem to be having issus with the CEL...
reset them 50 miles ago, but they came back.

#175 $AF - DISA Valve (should have been deleted by MM)
#026 $1A - Adaptation Values (should have been deleted by MM)
#211 $D3 - Knock Sensor 2-circuit bank-2 (no idea how to handle this one)

all in all.. car runs well (beter & better in fact), is currently awaiting a 3 inch pulley, and snow will be dialed down as per John's suggestion - but I cant pass inspection.

gonna call teddy tomorow and see what they say.

[lpcapital]

For the DISA you can check in the knowledge base where I posted a DISA simulator...

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

seem to be having issus with the CEL...
reset them 50 miles ago, but they came back.

#175 $AF - DISA Valve (should have been deleted by MM)
#026 $1A - Adaptation Values (should have been deleted by MM)
#211 $D3 - Knock Sensor 2-circuit bank-2 (no idea how to handle this one)

all in all.. car runs well (beter & better in fact), is currently awaiting a 3 inch pulley, and snow will be dialed down as per John's suggestion - but I cant pass inspection.

gonna call teddy tomorow and see what they say.

Emailed you Marko. Something fishy is going on if a DISA error shows up on a coded car, I'm not aware of any code that has the DISA error enabled unless they started another fresh dump from a stock DME and forgot to delete the DISA error table since your running different compression then me. Adaption value error is a know error on the 42.8# that was suppose to be corrected. I have that error (always have and don't care, older version) Yes I told Mark about your issues with adaption so he asked if I could find how far the adaption value the 42.8# injectors were off so he can correct the injector constant, I will test then Metric or I will re-flash your DME. Knock sensor is not code related and would be a bad knock sensor.

I've been super busy with work, 8 budgets to write and 2 closings this week plus I've got a boat motor to pull tomorrow night. I will do my best to pull those values for Mark so he can get it corrected.

Your car should run like a dog with the knock sensor error. That pulls all the timing out and will take away about 75+HP. I had a bad knock sensor immediately after installing my DASC, maybe I was too ruff with the wiring, maybe the sensor was old and it was time for it to die, don't know...

[pnosker]

Just so you know, I get a knock sensor (bank 1) error occasionally too. I'm not sure why, but it always seems to be in conjunction with a Secondary Air Pump injector 1 error. My car runs fine with the error though... Your knock sensor could be bad as could mine. Try putting premium gas + some octane booster and see if it goes away.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Guy are you saying you notice no difference in your HP with the knock sensor error?

If that is the case then the sensor is not bad. A bad sensor will pull all timing out and you will notice it for sure. If it is just a sensor error for a second then the CEL will log it but if the sensor is working ok the timing will return to normal. Knock sensors don't fix themselves, when they go bad they stay bad.

Also you guys don't run premium gas all the time. Boosting and lower octane is bad news.

Another thing that can cause a knock code is too much meth/water. Yes you can shoot too much so don't get all happy and think more is better. Liquid will not compress so if it doesn't turn into vapor before it gets into the cylinders it can cause trouble.

Another long shot is the knock sensors might be picking up the sound of those pistons slapping around in there. They are dense and make a bit more noise then a stock piston...

Marko, I emailed with Mark and he is working a file in the next day or two for me to test. If it is good then he will put those constants in your firmware and we will go from there. I called and left a message for Teddy but have not heard back on who is doing the flash work...

[pnosker]

For me, I run premium (93 octane) all the time and I occasionally get knock sensor codes without timing pulls. I reset them and they don't come back for a month or so... so I don't think the sensor is bad. Maybe it's due to a bad connection or something, but I'm in school and don't get to drive much here so I don't really have time to fix it now.

I moved to a smaller meth jet and I'm going through washer fluid much slower. I also found a leak and fixed that too so it's a combination of both that helps so much.

[marko]

john,

Texted Teddy after speaking with you - & told him that the solution to the problem lays in an interaction between you & Mark. Basically that he has the ability to change the program & that you have the ability to flash my ECU & provide usefull data, which I can't. He didnt disagree & said he will call you quite soon... I think you will be ultiamtelly reflashing my ECU.
Also, I liked your comment today about 'finding' additional 28hp somewhere in there, & so I expect nothing less too. LOL :biggrin: Just kidding... passing inspection will be great.

As for gas, to Pat's point, I always use 93 as well... however, I did notice a half bottle of octane boost in the trunk when my car was returned. I put in the tank a few days later, and that WAS the day my car ran THE BEST. Quiet / balanced / composed, yet it pulled stronger than ever! I was trully in awe of the power that particular day.

The CEL came on the very next time I filled the tank with just gas...

Also, no performance issues with or without the CEL. My car always feels & pulls the same - cel or no cel - but the octane boost did make it feel better that one particular time.

On the other hand, I think I am sucking in waaay too much alcohol! It is set to spray as early as 6-7 psi - and all the way through to 10-11.
I have also noticed that I go through a 2 gallon tank way to quiclky (under spirited driving - in about 3-4 days). I WILL employ you to help me dialed it in properly once the 3 inch pulley arrives. I am almost convinced that this is too much...

'ipcap'... if John & Mark are not able to eliminate my DISA code, I will deifinatelly have a look into the simulator. Thanks for that. No other way I will pass inspection in Jersey.

Lastly, as of theis afternoon - 93 miles and still no CEL after last reset.

[marko]

some photos of the - not so neat - set up... but thats small potatoes, I guess.

meth tank & solenoid in the trunk
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_4681.jpg?t=1253661900
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_4680.jpg?t=1253661952

the controler in the glove box (which I do not understand & do not like) LOL
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_4687.jpg?t=1253662009

the salad of wires that are my boost & a/f gauges - for which I still have to find a home
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_4688.jpg?t=1253662083

the engine detail - also to be cleaned up a bit
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_4682.jpg?t=1253662146
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_4684.jpg?t=1253662183

[marko]

and just for fun - the ever growing collection of stickers! LOL :biggrin:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_4685.jpg?t=1253662294

[pnosker]

DUDE!!! MUST SEE NOW!!!

[tiFreak]

there's plenty of empty space inside the console right in front of the shifter, stick the wires in there

[marko]

still need a gauge pod...

there's plenty of empty space inside the console right in front of the shifter, stick the wires in there

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Ok problem #1 VC-25 controller. Full setting to all the way 19psi. Low setting to 10psi. Go 9psi on the low if that will make you feel better. Do you have a wideband A/F? If so I bet it's low like 9:1 WOT right now but it should be in 12.0:1 on 12psi. when the Meth comes on with a 15psi boost you should see A/F ratios in the 10.5:1~11.0:1 zone or your too fat. On 15psi with a DASC I ran the best at 12.5:1 A/F ratio no meth @ 12psi; 11.0:1 with meth @ 15psi

When I ran the DASC @ 15psi I used 1 quart of 50/50 mix every 2 tanks of gas and yes I beat on it hard. With the turbo @ 15psi I use little to no meth due to intercooling and start shooting it at 14psi and 40% at 20psi.

You don't have enough boost to need meth at this point. Maybe a little but not much. Smaller pulley and yes you will need to shoot a 10psi and leave that high on 19psi so you never dump the full load. You might even need to turn down the pump pressure to because it might still be too much meth at 15psi. Do you know if you have a "red" jet. If so that is for a 350 hp engine and would explain why your going through so much meth.

Again you are using way, way, way too much meth. If I had know you were using that much I would say knock code is related to that and possibly DISA too. I would suggest even turning that low setting above 14psi so the system does not come one and try that. People run 12psi without meth all the time and have no issues. I never used it until I went to the small pulley. Your just dumping way too much in there and the fuel ratio is so fat it can't possibly run right or make decent power. It looks like it's set to come on at 5-6 psi which is worthless and kills power all the way through your boost till 12psi.

Turn it off man and take a drive. Just do it once and let me know if it feels a lot better. Then turn it on a little and watch your power go away.

When the 3" pulley gets there you will have to run the Meth but that's where it help to make power, it's a different ball game when boost pressure goes up, so does the boost charge temps and cylinder pressure so it uses that meth to cool and make more power and protect the motor.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Where is the solinoid before or after the pump? can't see in the picture

[marko]

john,
will call you this weekend to actually have you talk me through this.
thanks for the info - yeah I thought I was using way too much juice!
****, wish you lived closer.... :tongue:


pat,
you around this weekend at all?

Ok problem #1 VC-25 controller. Full setting to all the way 19psi. Low setting to 10psi. Go 9psi on the low if that will make you feel better. Do you have a wideband A/F? If so I bet it's low like 9:1 WOT right now but it should be in 12.0:1 on 12psi. when the Meth comes on with a 15psi boost you should see A/F ratios in the 10.5:1~11.0:1 zone or your too fat. On 15psi with a DASC I ran the best at 12.5:1 A/F ratio no meth @ 12psi; 11.0:1 with meth @ 15psi

When I ran the DASC @ 15psi I used 1 quart of 50/50 mix every 2 tanks of gas and yes I beat on it hard. With the turbo @ 15psi I use little to no meth due to intercooling and start shooting it at 14psi and 40% at 20psi.

You don't have enough boost to need meth at this point. Maybe a little but not much. Smaller pulley and yes you will need to shoot a 10psi and leave that high on 19psi so you never dump the full load. You might even need to turn down the pump pressure to because it might still be too much meth at 15psi. Do you know if you have a "red" jet. If so that is for a 350 hp engine and would explain why your going through so much meth.

Again you are using way, way, way too much meth. If I had know you were using that much I would say knock code is related to that and possibly DISA too. I would suggest even turning that low setting above 14psi so the system does not come one and try that. People run 12psi without meth all the time and have no issues. I never used it until I went to the small pulley. Your just dumping way too much in there and the fuel ratio is so fat it can't possibly run right or make decent power. It looks like it's set to come on at 5-6 psi which is worthless and kills power all the way through your boost till 12psi.

Turn it off man and take a drive. Just do it once and let me know if it feels a lot better. Then turn it on a little and watch your power go away.

When the 3" pulley gets there you will have to run the Meth but that's where it help to make power, it's a different ball game when boost pressure goes up, so does the boost charge temps and cylinder pressure so it uses that meth to cool and make more power and protect the motor.

[pnosker]

Marko, I could help you out with the meth injection a little. Also, Saturday I am going to the Rutgers at Univ. of MD. game down in College Park, but I am not too busy on Sunday if you want me to come over and help you tinker with the car a little.

[marko]

Thanks pat.. I actually dial it down a bit this afternoon.
Still have to confirm with John, but I think I did Ok.

Partial injection dial was set to about 10 - while the full injection (which was originally set to 12) was dialed down to (I think) 15-16.

Driving home to day, the green LED indicator (indicates spray ON), cam on about 9psi+.. whereas before it would light up at about 7psi+.

Only problem is that I have a hard time gauging the injection set on the full mode, as I cant really tell when it trully comes on.

As for the weekend - I spoke to soon - seems I got to work sat & do some pers. **** on sunday anyway...





Marko, I could help you out with the meth injection a little. Also, Saturday I am going to the Rutgers at Univ. of MD. game down in College Park, but I am not too busy on Sunday if you want me to come over and help you tinker with the car a little.

[spidertri]

Also, Saturday I am going to the Rutgers at Univ. of MD. game down in College Park.

Make sure you sit in the visitor section and not the UMD student section, lol. When visitors sit in the student section...things get a little interesting.:wink:

[marko]

John.. turned it down this afternoon! Partial inj now comes on @ about 9+, while the full load most likely at about 15 (which I still can not reach).

I will go downstairs now & close the full inj completely as you said - and I'll even turn the partial flow down ever so slightly even more. I want it to come on only at the very last psi (11).

Once I get the pulley, we'll talk again about it....

Say, my a/f gauge is till throwing stupid numbers (needs to be properly reset - unpluged, etc) - but you dont think I'll go lean, now do you?

I thin k you are right, even the MM guys thought it drank to much water... Just not sure why they left it so high.

Ok problem #1 VC-25 controller. Full setting to all the way 19psi. Low setting to 10psi. Go 9psi on the low if that will make you feel better. Do you have a wideband A/F? If so I bet it's low like 9:1 WOT right now but it should be in 12.0:1 on 12psi. when the Meth comes on with a 15psi boost you should see A/F ratios in the 10.5:1~11.0:1 zone or your too fat. On 15psi with a DASC I ran the best at 12.5:1 A/F ratio no meth @ 12psi; 11.0:1 with meth @ 15psi

When I ran the DASC @ 15psi I used 1 quart of 50/50 mix every 2 tanks of gas and yes I beat on it hard. With the turbo @ 15psi I use little to no meth due to intercooling and start shooting it at 14psi and 40% at 20psi.

You don't have enough boost to need meth at this point. Maybe a little but not much. Smaller pulley and yes you will need to shoot a 10psi and leave that high on 19psi so you never dump the full load. You might even need to turn down the pump pressure to because it might still be too much meth at 15psi. Do you know if you have a "red" jet. If so that is for a 350 hp engine and would explain why your going through so much meth.

Again you are using way, way, way too much meth. If I had know you were using that much I would say knock code is related to that and possibly DISA too. I would suggest even turning that low setting above 14psi so the system does not come one and try that. People run 12psi without meth all the time and have no issues. I never used it until I went to the small pulley. Your just dumping way too much in there and the fuel ratio is so fat it can't possibly run right or make decent power. It looks like it's set to come on at 5-6 psi which is worthless and kills power all the way through your boost till 12psi.

Turn it off man and take a drive. Just do it once and let me know if it feels a lot better. Then turn it on a little and watch your power go away.

When the 3" pulley gets there you will have to run the Meth but that's where it help to make power, it's a different ball game when boost pressure goes up, so does the boost charge temps and cylinder pressure so it uses that meth to cool and make more power and protect the motor.

[pnosker]

Lol... well actually I will be in the student section. I won't cheer either way though. I don't want to get killed. I will however wear a Rutgers Football shirt. Plus, they won't have too many of their own students there. When you go to overtime with JMU and lose to Middle Tennessee you have a lot of explaining to do.

Marko, I think you might need a smaller injector too. What happens with those units that vary pressure based on boost is that when boost is lower, pressure is lower, so atomization goes down. That means you have larger droplets squirting in, not evaporating well, and heavily hurting your mixture and potentially causing knock. You need a smaller jet so that you're always atomizing well. Those pressure controlled systems with dynamic injection don't work too well. I read a LOT about water/meth before I did mine and the general consensus is that things that vary water pressure are pointless.

[marko]

Hmm.. I was hoping MM looked into that before they placed an order for the unit. :frown:

I will talk to them again and see what they say - I know for a fact that they tried a few different ones before they selected this one.

I hope I dont have to fcuk with it myself - apart from turning it up & down. LOL


Marko, I think you might need a smaller injector too. What happens with those units that vary pressure based on boost is that when boost is lower, pressure is lower, so atomization goes down. That means you have larger droplets squirting in, not evaporating well, and heavily hurting your mixture and potentially causing knock. You need a smaller jet so that you're always atomizing well. Those pressure controlled systems with dynamic injection don't work too well. I read a LOT about water/meth before I did mine and the general consensus is that things that vary water pressure are pointless.

[pnosker]

Well I had bad knock sensor codes when I had a larger injector in so I got one off ebay for $20 and swapped it in 10 minutes and all is well now.

[marko]

just dialed it down some more.. drove it & the patial spray dont come on till the very end of my boost range - 10psi. while the full mode has beedn shut off completely.

car dont feel too much faster - but the acceleration is sharper / and a bit edgier, it seems!

I'll give this set up a day or so for proper judgement...

[spidertri]

Lol... well actually I will be in the student section. I won't cheer either way though. I don't want to get killed. I will however wear a Rutgers Football shirt. Plus, they won't have too many of their own students there. When you go to overtime with JMU and lose to Middle Tennessee you have a lot of explaining to do.


Well, I wish you the best of luck in the student section. Lol, the terps...sigh...I don't think anyone on campus can predict how they are going to play...I was at the JMU game and it was just painful to watch. However, the student section will be packed. It always is.

Sorry for the threadjack Marko, your car is a beast! I hope you get everything worked out.

[roadrash]

and lose to Middle Tennessee
My alma mater. :biggrin:

But, to get back on-topic... sort of... marko, I hope you have your car running well by the time I get to NJ so I can see it. :cool:

[marko]

bittersweet weekend!

passed inspection finally - she is legal... :cool:

had the current program downloaded from my ECU by Pat & sent to John S. - & it seems I indeed have the WRONG software in the car - wrong file! :frown:

I'm surprised it even broke 200whp with the inadequate program... :mad:

pulling the ECU this week - to be sent for re-flash. :_paper:

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

bittersweet weekend!

passed inspection finally - she is legal... :cool:

had the current program downloaded from my ECU by Pat & sent to John S. - & it seems I indeed have the WRONG software the car - wrong file! :frown:

I'm surprised it even broke 200whp with the inadequate program... :mad:

pulling the ECU this week - to be sent for re-flash. :_paper:

Marko, we will get your DME all taken care of. I'm confident of that. I sent the file to Mark for review and he will have the final word on if he worked it for your car and if we will change over to the custom file made for my car which is a killer code. Only issue on my firmware is adaption (which I never asked to be fixed). Mark is working it out right now. This file with the corrected adaption will be the base SC and turbo file moving forward with little tweaks on timing depending on sroke and compression ratio for the customer's car.

[pnosker]

Woot! Maybe you can get your water/meth injection working properly soon... Still think you should stick a check valve right before the injector.

http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/Water-Injection-Check-Valve/c31/index.html

[marko]

excellent to hear! cant wait to have proper software in the car...

it should compliment my recently arrived 3 inch pulley! :2pistole:

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_4721.jpg?t=1254662924


Marko, we will get your DME all taken care of. I'm confident of that. I sent the file to Mark for review and he will have the final word on if he worked it for your car and if we will change over to the custom file made for my car which is a killer code. Only issue on my firmware is adaption (which I never asked to be fixed). Mark is working it out right now. This file with the corrected adaption will be the base SC and turbo file moving forward with little tweaks on timing depending on sroke and compression ratio for the customer's car.

[marko]

fcuk it! I want a complete re-install... sent MM an email on friday requesting just that. currently awaiting an answer. :wink:

Woot! Maybe you can get your water/meth injection working properly soon... Still think you should stick a check valve right before the injector.

http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/Water-Injection-Check-Valve/c31/index.html

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

fcuk it! I want a complete re-install... sent MM an email on friday requesting just that. currently awaiting an answer. :wink:

Marko drop this check valve before the meth jet and you problems are solved. I looked at it and it looks real good and will do exactly what you need it to do. Let Pat hekp you install. Test then drop on the 3" pulley:biggrin:

[marko]

pat / john,

are you guys sure I dont need another solenoid vs. the one way check valve??

my jet is tapped into the SC elbow & not through the MAF to throttle body rubber elbow i.e. vacum.

not gonna fudge this up - if need be, & MM doesnt do good by me - I'll pay an authorized dealer to fix this **** properly. Once the 3 inch pulley is in, I'm not taking any chances with a 7K motor.

[pnosker]

All you need is a check valve. Solenoids are total crap. They break a lot. Check valves are better than solenoids. I don't even have a solenoid on my system.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

All you need is a check valve. Solenoids are total crap. They break a lot. Check valves are better than solenoids. I don't even have a solenoid on my system.

Pat is right on this. Install and your ready for the 3" pulley after makig sure the meth system is flowing:biggrin:

[marko]

went to the site today... will order the valve.
must check to see if there is a leak somewhere first.

if no leak, I'll install the valve / swap the pulley & call it a day.
I'm sure it'll be a blast with a 3 inch pulley.

[pnosker]

Don't just swap the pulley before you test it by shorting that connection on the boost sender unit like I said. You're going to risk a lot if you don't make sure it injects first. Feel free to drop by, I can help you.

[MM318ti]

Hey Marco its Court From MM. I am sorry if you are not so happy with some of the install work we did with your Snow System and AFR/boost gauge but on our behalf, we spent countless uncharged hours customizing, fabricating and designing the most integrated and logical install we could for your particular vehicle. Yes, we are always learning and we incure the costs involved. Now, on to more important issues. We would not recommend switching to a smaller pulley at this time, reason being that your tune is for the 3.2 pulley @ 12psi, the car would need to be retuned for the 15psi pulley you are planning to install. May I suggest holding off for a while untill we figure out all your current issues.

[marko]

hey court,
ordered the check valve... should arrive soon. hear it'll fix all issues related to snow. let you know how it turns out... I'm sure it'll be fine.
I know you tried hard.. no worries. I realized it wasn't a part of the original layout anyways. I'll take care of it.

cheers.



EDIT: I'm done with the A/F gauge bull**** ... gonna try re-seting it one more time - then if still useless, gonna use it like a hockey puck! never liked the idea of it anyway - too fast & furious for me.

Hey Marco its Court From MM. I am sorry if you are not so happy with some of the install work we did with your Snow System and AFR/boost gauge but on our behalf, we spent countless uncharged hours customizing, fabricating and designing the most integrated and logical install we could for your particular vehicle. Yes, we are always learning and we incure the costs involved. Now, on to more important issues. We would not recommend switching to a smaller pulley at this time, reason being that your tune is for the 3.2 pulley @ 12psi, the car would need to be retuned for the 15psi pulley you are planning to install. May I suggest holding off for a while untill we figure out all your current issues.

[marko]

spoke to someone from the meth place that pat gave me a link to for the check valve.. guy went over some **** with me - & yeah the second check valve should take care of it (he even mentioned I should loose the POS solenoid & simply stick with one CV right before the jet).

+ I'm still to call him back when I pull the jet out, & find out the size of the on in the car.. may just get a smaller one and see where that takes me.

Marko drop this check valve before the meth jet and you problems are solved. I looked at it and it looks real good and will do exactly what you need it to do. Let Pat hekp you install. Test then drop on the 3" pulley:biggrin:

[pdxmotorhead]

Marko,

I know how stoked you are to get the car running. But I have a suggestion.
Walk away for a few days. Do something else. Come back slow and work it one change at a time till its right.

I see this a lot at the race track. I call it racer thrash. I can't tell you how many engines I've seen pranged because someone got in a rush and missed some ridiculous detail. I watches a 40K Z06 engine go up in flames cause the owner could not wait for a new oil cap. He tried to plug it with a rag and a cork... Sigh...

From what I've read so far your really close, and your motor is not broke in yet which will change things yet again in a few weeks. It take a pretty long time to break in the new pistons and rings these days. The last high output turbo engine I installed has 456 crank HP and its a 2.3 ford. It took literally 4 months to really tweek the thing to perfection where it can run a road race and not mis-behave. Thats running an Electromotive ECU and with the help of one of the top engine shops in the US. Heck it took 16 hours hard time to break it in on the engine dyno. When you finally get it working its awsome.

Wax on Wax off...... Breath..... That thing is going to ROCK.

Dave

[jaimito79]

[QUOTE=marko;217251]you are correct - my car has little value today... but F-it, its a keeper as I kinda grew attached to it... + I view it more as a hobby than anything else - like Lego blocks for adults :)

+ 1
Definitely cool you did something out of the norm. As long as you're happy with it bro. Kudos to you...:cool:

[marko]

Thanks guys.. I'm sure it'll be fine.
Pulls real nice so far, & so a few more tweaks (pulleys / programs / meth / general clean up), & I'm sure I'll get there. :wink:

[marko]

found out why the meth system doesn't work (not to mention the SC sucking in air through the jet - i.e. vacum leak)! Pat you were 100% on the money...

Alcohol line severed, by the sway bar link!

Goes from the solenoid - through the floor...
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_4725.jpg?t=1254951972

comes out the the underbody, & straight into the thin air!

May as well have been farting into the seat - hoping to cool the charge...
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh98/damiennn666/DSC_4724.jpg?t=1254951924

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Well that would explain why your blowing 1-2 gallons on a short ride. Nice find...

Metric told me they didn't mount the meth pump in your engine bay because there was no room except over the exhaust manifold which burned out pumps. Is there room anywere else to mount up front?

That hose looks like it got pulled on and stretched before it broke was there something sharp that cut it or was it like that when you found it?

How you going to fix that? Is there loose or slack hose to do a patch job?

[marko]

droping the car off tomorrow to get sorted out... + few other minor things.

what snapped it was the sway bar link - hitting the underbody exactly where the hose comes out.

I think there is some slack - & if not, my boy Dave will figure it out. he'll also install the check valve right in front of the jet.

system should theoreticaly work after all that.

start @ 10 - full at 15, as we discussed.



as for the pump placement... thats because I wanted the battery in the trunk & the pump + smaller tank in the battery compartment... but that didn't happen for some reason either.

how did you race go, man?? LOL

Well that would explain why your blowing 1-2 gallons on a short ride. Nice find...

Metric told me they didn't mount the meth pump in your engine bay because there was no room except over the exhaust manifold which burned out pumps. Is there room anywere else to mount up front?

That hose looks like it got pulled on and stretched before it broke was there something sharp that cut it or was it like that when you found it?

How you going to fix that? Is there loose or slack hose to do a patch job?

[pdxmotorhead]

What would happen if you just ran E-85? I would bet you would not need the meth...

Hmm.

Dave

[cooljess76]

found out why the meth system doesn't work (not to mention the SC sucking in air through the jet - i.e. vacum leak)! Pat you were 100% on the money...

Doh! Nice find Marko. Easy fix, longer hose, re-route out of harms way.

[marko]

yep... exactly what its gonna happen. shouldnt be too hard to fix.
hopefully the boys will have it sorted by the time I get back. :)

Doh! Nice find Marko. Easy fix, longer hose, re-route out of harms way.

[marko]

snow system fixed... 3 inch pulley on! 15 psi @ about 7,000rpm... sick ****! LOL :)

cant wait to dyno her again! :wink:

Pat, wait till you drive her now, dude... LOL

[Vazquezp]

ok just got done wiping down the keyboard from all the drool>> Man NICE set-up i wish i could do something like this.> for now my ti will just keep being my dd> :/

[pnosker]

Ok... time for you to drive back to Rutgers! :-D

Seriously!! That's awesome. It's gotta be faster than mine now... I can't imagine that thing with 15 psi. With 10 or whatever it was before it was definitely faster than mine at 12...

[tiFreak]

awesome, I can't wait to see the dyno sheet

[marko]

LOL Dude, this is my DD! as soon as get coils / tighten up the loose in and outs that still need fixing up, she will officially be DONE / completed / finished.

Then.. I'll start saving up for a real 'weekend & nice wheather only' car! A sweet, completelly restored, OEM+, naturally aspirated, 91 2L 16V Gti. :) Think I'll do her in BMW titanium silver too (with black Recaro seats), so she mathes the beemer perfectly! LOL

ok just got done wiping down the keyboard from all the drool>> Man NICE set-up i wish i could do something like this.> for now my ti will just keep being my dd> :/