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Giuseppe_Pepperoni
03-20-2004, 06:38 AM
The following is an excerpt of a 3-5-04 post made by the technical specialist at Meguiar’s, Mike Phillips.

…When you apply a Meguiar's polish, the trade secret oils found in all Meguiar’s polishes, (and even Meguiar’s compounds, cleaner/polishes and even some waxes), penetrate into the paint and replace the original resins, (or oils), that have been broken-down, leached out and/or deteriorated. These trade secret oils then act to fill the empty microscopic pores, air pockets and surface imperfections thus preventing unwanted substances from entering into these areas.


…2) They replace and replenish the oils/resins originally present in your car’s paint


…Meguiar’s unique background and close relationships with giants in both the automotive paint industry and new car manufactures, (for about as long as these two industries have been around), should give you the confidence you need to enable you to place your trust in Meguiar’s, the surface care experts.

Mike Phillips
Technical Specialist
1-800-854-8073 ext. 189
mphillips@meguiars.com

"Find something you like and use it often"

Jack Anderson
Paint Instructor for the PPG paint company

When I first read this article I thought, “Wow, these guys have products that will, in their words, replace and replenish the original oils/resins in my paint. Then I started thinking. Being a believer in Meguiar’s, my trusted surface care experts would never lead me astray or to educate me with twisted meanings or untruths. I would expect good clear and concise language. It seemed to me that some of the information in this article was a little far fetched.

My research started and the first call went to Dupont’s tech department, my second call to BASF’s tech department and third to PPG’s tech department. The questions: Can a wax or polish replace and or replenish the oils/resins in paint? Can a wax or polish penetrate the surface and replace the original oils/resins that have broken down, leached out and/or deteriorated? I then placed calls to the top wax and polish manufacturers and then to their raw material suppliers. My research and consulting background has given me a set of tools not available to most people. It’s amazing the amount of information available if you know where to look. Out of respect for the manufacturers I will not divulge very much specific information at this time.

Basically all three paint manufacturers came back with the same answer. The general consensus is wax or polish cannot penetrate into the paint surface. At best, a wax or polish can remove minor imperfections and lay on the surface to provide a semi-permanent coating that can fill minor defects but in no way can replace anything that has leached out of the paint. Materials that leach out of paint do so by design and are never to be replaced. If the items that leached out of paint were replaced you would not have a viable permanent coating.

PPG was the only paint company that asked why and where. When I told them I heard it from Meguiar’s and Meguiar’s apparently had an alignment with PPG they responded with, “we have no alignment with that company.” We recommend 3M products for color sand and buff for both refinish and OEM applications.

As far as the wax and polish manufacturers go. I received a number of interesting comments from my questions. A couple of them went into great detail about their product and what it was capable of. Some of it was so crazy you’d think they were trying to convince me that pigs could fly. My conversations were full of both good and bad information. So much so they need to be posted individually though most were a little self-serving and twisted information similar to Mike’s article.

This little project consumed me for some time since the 3-5-04 post. Generally I do not participate in these forums, I’m like Jimmy Swaggert and like to watch. But I think it time to join in the fun. I have learned a great deal about paints, how to care for them and a great deal about the raw materials that go into waxes and polishes. I am a car nut as well.

Through the years I have learned the strength of the written word and one thing we have to realize is that Mike Phillips has the power of the pen! He has a powerful brand behind him that automatically gives him, for the lack of a better term, God-like status in the wax and polish community. With this power he can choose educate and give to the greater good or not. The way words in this article are manipulated puts a big “?” behind the phrase, “Trusted Surface Care Experts!”


Giuseppe Pepperoni
Sometimes you’re the bug!
Sometimes you’re the windshield!

writeb
03-20-2004, 09:26 AM
GP,
First of all, welcome, chief.

Regarding your post, I don't really know what to say. Regarding marketing in a really competitive sector, Mfrs are going to blow as much smoke as they can get away with, really. While I'm working mainly with anecdotal evidence, (as I can't afford all of the many phases/levels of their car care system), Regardless of the dissappointment due to potential ethical contraventions, I'm sure any protests would in the most optimistic sense only result in an astrik being added to their marketing statements.

Plus the perception that they've made some of the best and well known car appearance components. If they can make me the best polish and wax available for my car, they can tell me they grind up genies into their paste, as long as it works!

Seriously though, I see where you are coming from, if you've worked with paint before, it is rather embarrassing to see those statements mentioned by a Meguires representative. But for all we know, someone probably blew smoke down his pipe too.

I've brushed over the technology involved in paint care, after it has cured, and the chemistry behind it seems like it can be rather advanced. I hope we can rely on you to share your newly acquired knowledge. I.e. what we really can skip using and get to the good stuff! ;)

Thx for the post, hope you stick around.

Giuseppe_Pepperoni
03-20-2004, 09:28 PM
Thanks for the kind words. I'll be glad to stick around.

To respond: Meguiar's shouldn't have to blow smoke to be successful. Interesting you should put it that way...How about an extreme example: Phillip Morris - remember when it was safe to smoke? I see your point but if they claim to have genies and have none it should go to the bottom of the list.

This business tactic has become an epidemic. We, as consumers, deserve more!

J!m
03-22-2004, 06:30 PM
I was a die-hard 'M' user for many years, and was pleased with the results.

I have since diversified my car-care arsenal to include quite a few brands I'm sure the majority of you here have never heard of.

My point: Try new stuff (perhaps on the neighbor's car...) and decide for yourself.

I have slung a lot of paint, and as I read the original post, I had to control my laughter. If something could penetrate the paint, it would not do it's intended job of sealing the surface to prevent corrosion (looking good is actually a second thing).

And, I agree with PPG (whom I have used and am quite pleased with their products) that 3M finish perfecting products are about the best money can buy (though you can easily pay more). I use 3M products quite a bit in my arsenal.

Thanks again for the interesting read. I'm sure many readers here will learn a lot from it- and that's the point.

J!m

brucelee
05-17-2004, 01:32 AM
Try Klasse products. The best I have ever used.

tastade
05-23-2004, 02:58 PM
My personal favorite is the Zymol cleaner wax that they sell at Walmart/target, works great and makes your car smell good too. It is cheap for Zymol (about $12 per bottle) but expensive for general wax.

I don't buy products from companies because of misleading claims. I buy products based on how much I like the results, how other people like the product, and magazine reviews.

J!m
05-24-2004, 10:45 PM
That WalMart Zymol is referred to as 'Zurtle Wax' as Turtle wax bought the rights to use the name. Smells nice, has the name, is actually turtle wax in the bottle.

To confirm, check place of origin. I think Turtle wax is from Chicago, and Zymol is imported to Rhode Island.

I don't use either product, but just wanted to share the info...

If you are happy with it, that is what matters.

agentf1
04-04-2005, 09:21 PM
Giuseppe, you need to post this on autopia.org.

aceyx
04-05-2005, 12:06 AM
wal mart and other discount stores generally only sell the consumer grade waxes. the aforementioned marketing slogans are created for this particular market. consumer grade waxes generally contain silicone, as a response to car ownership in the US (leased, so long term-effects aren't important, and quick results--shine--is).

original paint on german cars (similar to PPG) is different from that found on domestics. it responds better to pure carnauba waxes, which are ultimately better, but harder to use properly. the addition of silicone blends makes it easier to use, because it softens the material.

Klasse products, as i understand them, are polymer blends, similar to nu-finish etc. it is not a wax per se, but classified as such for consumer purposes.

i have no problem with meguiars #16 paste wax (very different from #26 hi-tech yellow), but it's harder to find. the same goes for the 3M paste wax, which i also rate rather highly. as a result, i generally order everything from specialty suppliers.

hotdog19d
04-05-2005, 02:36 AM
talk about back from the dead, I read this and thought I had read this on another form. Then I realized it was here a year ago!