DASC Differences, intake differences

[blefevre]

Take a look at these two pictures.

http://ackthud.com/shawnfogg/pics/supercharger/engine.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn188/Moonlitemotorwerks/SHOPPICSdec9th021.jpg

One bottom pictures has a 180 degree bend from the charger, the other one has a slightly less bend, then an additional silver 45 degree bend later in the intake.

Basic question. Which one is a M44 kit that keeps traction control? The kit I have to install is the lower one, with the 180 degree bend. The car is a 96 M44 318ti which only has one throttle body like the top picture. What's the deal with the difference? I search around and both show they are for the M44. The car I bought it from was a 99 I believe. Am I screwed or can I make this work?

[Biolite]

The bottom picture (SHOPPICSdec9th021.jpg) is the one for the M44 with keeping the ASC+T. The intake bellows is split into two sections with the ASC+T. I have an M44 without the traction control and my intake bellows looks like the one in the top figure.

[blefevre]

Well now I am confused. I will have to double check but my 96 only has the one throttle body, none of that second stuff. It has traction control.

[pdxmotorhead]

The only traction control they had on the ti required the extra TB, ABS however is brakes only....

Maybe somebody removed it before you owned it? Or its a transition year witht he wrong dash switch installed.

Cheers.
Dave

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Well now I am confused. I will have to double check but my 96 only has the one throttle body, none of that second stuff. It has traction control.

As pdxmotorhead stated you do not have traction control you have ABS which is antilock brakes. Traction control requires a separate TB that closes if it detects the back tires "only" loosing traction. The traction control will close it's TB and choke the motor to stop rear tire spin in snow or rain on the rear wheel drive car. It stops the rear from getting around in front of you which is not a issue in front wheel drive cars.Picture #2 have the traction control. If you don't see that extra TB it does not have traction control only ABS

Best, John S

[Biolite]

So, blefevre, my advice would be to use your original intake bellows on the install, but you'll have to find a length of 45 deg bend piping (like intercooler type piping) with an ID to fit your MAF snugly and cut it to fit in place there. I don't recall what the size is off the top of my head. You should just be able to eyeball it, leaving a bit of extra length for the bellows side to grab on to.

Or to make sure you get a good connection, get a nice 45 deg bend of silicone hose (or rubber) to fit on the MAF and just run a short length of straight piping to the intake bellows. Secure it all with hose clamps.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

The DASC kit without traction control uses this hose installed upside down.
That is how my kit was made from Downing and it worked just fine

This is the Pelican Parts number below

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=13-71-1-247-031-M9&catalog_description=Intake%20Bellows%2C%20Air%20Mass%20Sensor%20to%20Throttle%20Body%2C%20only%20for %20cars%20WITHOUT%20ASC%2BT%2C%20%33%31%38i%2Fis%2FiC%2Fti%20with%20M%34%34%20Engine%20%28%31%39%39% 35%2D%39%39%29%20

[blefevre]

Thanks for all the help. I heard back from Jim at downing and he said the there is only one bend from the supercharger, which is the 180 degree bend. The picture much be an illusion.

As for the other 45-degree bend at the MAF, yeah I probably need to find that.

I am 100% sure my car has traction control (daily driven in Colorado winters) and I know what it feels like when it cuts power, and the traction control light comes on when slipping in the snow. However, I will have to look again at the engine. It's my wifes car so I don't live under the hood like I do with my E30. Maybe I somehow missed the second TB.

I will update tonight.

[Prince]

Hi guys, I'm wanting to expand on this a little bit. Has anyone tried different air intakes with a DASC? What were the results?

[Monolith]

Just to provide some clarification. The cast elbow in the top picture is for the Z3 (it is not the same as the 318ti elbow). The cast elbow in the bottom picture is for the 318ti. The Z3 in the top photo is a 1996 model that did not come with any traction control.

[screamin]

... or a secondary air pump.

[m44lee]

i've set mine up so the small metal elbow sits before the maf!
and the different elbow makes a difference here in the uk as our battery is on that side so the m44 elbow allows to keep the battery where it is!
i also know a guy that brought the z3 kit for his 318is and he had to relocate the battery to the boot!

anyway heres a couple of pic's of mine!

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt159/m44lee/IMG_0098.jpg

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt159/m44lee/IMG_0099.jpg

i also used a samco intake bellows as i had the oe one split on me twice

[AquaCali]

The 96 318ti's had traction control which uses the ABS module and sensors to work. When one of the wheel speed sensors is going faster than the other (i.e when a wheel is spinning) the module applies the brakes on the spinning wheel, which causes the differential to send power to the other wheel. Open differentials send the power to the wheel which will turn the easiest i.e. the spinning wheel. The second throttle body in the intake tract is for the Automatic Stability Control (ASC) when sensors detect the car going too fast around a corner it reduces the power thereby slowing the car. 96 ti's have the electronic traction control, but no stability control.

[maverick]

The 96 318ti's had traction control which uses the ABS module and sensors to work. When one of the wheel speed sensors is going faster than the other (i.e when a wheel is spinning) the module applies the brakes on the spinning wheel, which causes the differential to send power to the other wheel. Open differentials send the power to the wheel which will turn the easiest i.e. the spinning wheel. The second throttle body in the intake tract is for the Automatic Stability Control (ASC) when sensors detect the car going too fast around a corner it reduces the power thereby slowing the car. 96 ti's have the electronic traction control, but no stability control.

I have a 96 ti with traction control but not the throttle for stability control and mine uses the brakes to basically slow the spinning wheel so that the other takes power and hopefully pulls me through. Now saying that and knowing for sure I have no second throttle body mine will if pushed cut power. Mine will be fine unless I gun it and get everything spinning and then it is like hitting a rev limiter without being at the redline, power is cut for sure with trda trda trda sort of a sound like bouncing a rev limiter so I think it pulls the spark or something to control the power if pushed too far. If I need to push it to get out I have to turn of the traction control and do it with either my foot feathering the brakes or the hand brake to divert power or I go know where and just sit going trda trda trda.

Not sure how they do it but even without the stabilty control throttle it cuts power and I will have to look again I think there is a statement as to how the indicator light flashes that indicates the cutting of power...I think it only flashes if it is cutting power and otherwise the traction control goes about its business and does not let us know.

My observations on mine, but that is how it seems.

Dave

[maverick]

Take a look at these two pictures.

http://ackthud.com/shawnfogg/pics/supercharger/engine.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn188/Moonlitemotorwerks/SHOPPICSdec9th021.jpg

One bottom pictures has a 180 degree bend from the charger, the other one has a slightly less bend, then an additional silver 45 degree bend later in the intake.

Basic question. Which one is a M44 kit that keeps traction control? The kit I have to install is the lower one, with the 180 degree bend. The car is a 96 M44 318ti which only has one throttle body like the top picture. What's the deal with the difference? I search around and both show they are for the M44. The car I bought it from was a 99 I believe. Am I screwed or can I make this work?

Well your not actually seeing the difference between a setup for tarction control and one without. The image at the bottom is the setup that was originally designed for the M42/M44 installed in an a 318ti, the top is the one setup originally designed for the M44 installed in the Z3. The throttle body to supercharge elbow for the 318ti is basically a 180 degree bend and the one for the Z3 is a slightly shallower bend I beleive to package better in the Z3 engine bay.

The 180 degree bend is so close to the supercharger that the M42 is fine due to its remote mounted idle control valve but with an M44 throttle body there is not enough clearence there for the idle control valve so Downey supplies a remote adaptor kit with a plate, barbs, hoses and a mount for the valve. The Z3 bend allows the clearence for the valve with no issue.

Makes me wonder now after having to purchase the idle contrl valve remote kit for my used M42 setup to convert to M44 if it might be cheaper or better just using the Z3 bend? The remote kits are pricey and unless Downey makes more I bought the last one so anyone wanting to go from an M42 to a M44 kit bear that in mind and check with Downey if the parts are available as that kit would not be easy to replicate cheaply.

Dave

[m44lee]

another question on differences is!...
i know a guy on another forum who brought the last dasc for his m42
i've been giving him what advise i could having fitted mine to a m44 engine
but today he had a problem fitting the idler pulleys

see heres my m44 idlers

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt159/m44lee/IMG_0258.jpg

but heres what happened with his today


http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af174/PrinceEJ6/BMW%20318is%20Coupe/DSCF2728-1.jpg

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af174/PrinceEJ6/BMW%20318is%20Coupe/DSCF2731.jpg

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af174/PrinceEJ6/BMW%20318is%20Coupe/DSCF2732.jpg

so can anyone that has fitted the dasc to a m42'd engine advise on this matter as he's stumped at the mo!

[Prince]

Nice one posting up here mate! I'm sure someone will know the answer. It's either new idler pulley bracket or I need the alternator bracket and power steering pump from the M44 AFAIK. Although I'd love to hear other suggestions! :)

[Monolith]

If you flip the bracket (would need to weld the bung on the other side), would that make up for the difference?

[maverick]

I will check and see but I think that is an M44 bracket mounted to an M42 motor right? If so then you need the other bracket. I will check for you if you clarify the mix of parts and motor that your trying to fit.

Dave


another question on differences is!...
i know a guy on another forum who brought the last dasc for his m42
i've been giving him what advise i could having fitted mine to a m44 engine
but today he had a problem fitting the idler pulleys

see heres my m44 idlers

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt159/m44lee/IMG_0258.jpg

but heres what happened with his today


http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af174/PrinceEJ6/BMW%20318is%20Coupe/DSCF2728-1.jpg

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af174/PrinceEJ6/BMW%20318is%20Coupe/DSCF2731.jpg

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af174/PrinceEJ6/BMW%20318is%20Coupe/DSCF2732.jpg

so can anyone that has fitted the dasc to a m42'd engine advise on this matter as he's stumped at the mo!

[m44lee]

ah didnt realise you were on here prince! lol

well hopefully you get it sorted mate as i wanna have a good kick of your tyres at dc12 :biggrin:

and it'd be nice to get a few shots of our cars together after the show with the chargers on show!:wink:

[Prince]

I will check and see but I think that is an M44 bracket mounted to an M42 motor right? If so then you need the other bracket. I will check for you if you clarify the mix of parts and motor that your trying to fit.

Dave

Spot on mate. That's my car above and it is an M42. After looking on realoem and cross referencing parts it was discovered it was an M44 bracket.

ah didnt realise you were on here prince! lol

well hopefully you get it sorted mate as i wanna have a good kick of your tyres at dc12 :biggrin:

and it'd be nice to get a few shots of our cars together after the show with the chargers on show!:wink:

Yeah mate! Best place for 4 pot info, and DASC info. DC12 is the aim, and definitely pictures as well! I may have something worked out before a new bracket arrives.

[denglish318ti]

Looks different to my M44 bracket, as it has three small holes on the LHS, although I know they changed the design. Wouldn't be too hard to make up your own bracket, and no need for a welded bung, just drill a hole in it and use a couple of spacers. Just make sure everything is square as otherwise the belt will slip off all the time!

[max_moto]

Can someone tell me the differences between a 318 and a Z3 (both M44) DASC kits?

I know intake elbow is different, anything else?
I'm trying to buy a 318 DASC kit and fit it in my 1997 M44 Z3 with ASC

Thanks!

[Prince]

Looks different to my M44 bracket, as it has three small holes on the LHS, although I know they changed the design. Wouldn't be too hard to make up your own bracket, and no need for a welded bung, just drill a hole in it and use a couple of spacers. Just make sure everything is square as otherwise the belt will slip off all the time!

Thanks for the reply buddy. I'm test fitting the M44 parts later on as DA have basically said because they don't make the kit anymore there isn't a great deal they can do. Hopefully after swapping the alternator bracket, alternator and power steering pump over everything should line up.

Can someone tell me the differences between a 318 and a Z3 (both M44) DASC kits?

I know intake elbow is different, anything else?
I'm trying to buy a 318 DASC kit and fit it in my 1997 M44 Z3 with ASC

Thanks!

Iirc the only difference is the intake elbow because the battery isn't in the way on a Z3 but is in the way on an E36. Someone on another forum bought a kit from a Z3 for his 318is and had to relocate the battery into the boot. Doing it the other way around *should* be fine though.