RAJ-Built custom WideBody 318ti [Archive]

RAJ

10-06-2004, 03:50 AM

Thanks for the compliment- I still have work to do on it. Faster Faster.
True, removing vehicle weight does not Add HP to the engine. Car And Motorcycle Performance has been a part of my life since 6yrs old. This isn't my first Rodeo.. and likely not the last. Not here to brag.. or rag, but there is quite a few things to do without completely tearing the engine down and starting over. More than some bolt-ons to get power, And more than chips and cpu tweaks. Essentially, performance and fabrication has been my entire life. The Download tweak gave me a rough 40 horses and I moved the rev-limiter to 75** RPM.
The Cold air intake is just a pipe from the TB to the K&N filter- nothing special. The Exhaust starts with the stock, stainless header modded a little, then goes into a stepped-up converter pipe with free-flow converter. It steps up in size again after the converter. same size from there out to the back. $50 bucks and I will tell you the sizes. $800, and will build you one- LOL. I didnt see the point in aftermarket headers with are rediculous priced since I do not have re-worked ports or a fabbed manifold yet... and larger primaries would just loose velocity .. perhaps resulting in bottom-end lag which the 318ti suffers from already without Nitrous or Forced Induction. I listed some mods, not all. Hmmm, Amazing Wonders can be done with Valve train and reciprocating mass though- And This Does gain HorsePower.
Speaking of stock HP levels at the Flywheel, I have read all kinds of conflicting stats. BMW claims 165hp. I have also read the 138 HP like you stated. I have heard so many - 145, 155, 190.. and on and on. I never dynoed the car when it was stock- wish i had though. I dynoed it a few times through the computer phasing- A BMW dealer in Dallas Dynoed it last time just out of curiosity ..And I dont care: this is like the 300th vehicle I have built(something like #14 of my own))->like stated, I have nothing I have to proove- I know it isn't the fastest nor the slowest. I know it keeps up with a stock '98 M3 up to 140mph... and that is better than stock 318Ti stats.
Every Dyno will produce a different Rating. No 2 dynos will give the same exact results.. but usually there are with 10HP of eachother if they are calibrated by the same guy, in the same room, and used to dyno the vehicle the same day. A Different day will aso produce different results as weather might change by brometric pressure, air temp, air density, etc.

Question- Noticed some Ti's have vacuum Operated Variable Intake Valves(silver cover) and some have electrically controlled ones(black plastic cover). Mine originally had the electronic valve. Yet, I have seen other 98 models with vacuum ones. I put a Vacuum one on it for kicks to see if I could notice any differences. Is this something that changed mid-year?
Funny Thing here> Originally sent the manifold off to a Guy in CA who said he'd give a wack at fabbing a manifold (his business as he claimed was Civic manifolds) So I sent the TB complete, my injector rail, and manifold- the whole deal. One year later- yes One year of Nagging and I finnally get this rude nasty chunk back that wouldn't flow a Micron through it efficiently. He kept the Tb and everything else except the fuel rail. He insisted it was the Snazzy stuff.. but i wouldn't put it on my push mower. I was M-A-D... MAD. If he does this crap to Civics, then hondas must really suffer in stock form.

RAJ

10-06-2004, 04:02 AM

Hogging the stock Tb.. might be a bit tiresome and worthless. I am thinking adaptation of wiring and going with another- either M3 to keep it in the family .. or any 65mm like mustang, honda, or calling Accufab. a trubo might be fun if reliable. but Prefer natural aspiration I think for simplicity- why not H-beam rods, new crank knife edged, mill the head .0030 .. Or do higher comp pistons. Plus some Nutty cams- the result might be equal in the end to a low boost( 6-7psi) turbo application. Thought about adapting a vortech kit like those for a honda. ?? Anyway, too broke right now to go big.

TiPerformance

10-06-2004, 04:07 AM

Care to elaborate any on the Computer Programming, where can one get this programming done, how is it done, is the software available to those of us who would like to tune our own computers.... Ect.

I have air injection on my car, any ideas on how to remove it with out messing everything up?

ClubSport332ti

10-07-2004, 03:10 AM

Please post some more pics of this kit

RAJ

10-07-2004, 03:47 PM

This wasn't a kit.. exactly - it took me 2 yrs to make... And I am still not happy with the rear fenders. Part of the whole deal is actually metal I formed. I Plan on making some rears slightly different... but had to get the car Road-worthy since I blew the engine in my Roush. After it is "finished" to my expectations, I will make final molds.. and a final product in either Carbon or ABS... to keep the fenders light, but strong. I'd post more pics but the jpeg size limit is a bit nutty> I have to shrink the picture to a silly comic size.
I made the splitter from aluminum. The air dam is an M3 GT1 unit.

RAJ

10-07-2004, 04:09 PM

- When you say "air injection", Are you speaking of the air bleeds that attach to the Fuel injectors and and air pipe before the Throttle Body?
IF so, you can cap these ports with vacuum caps and be done. I did it yesterday to see. The car ran fine. could not tell, but it might run a little on the rich side- didn't have any new plugs to drop in for a plug check, but i figure the computer will compensate. Not really sure why BMW felt the need to do this.

I am still trying to figure out the whole sensor BS associated with the little MPG meter inside the car. As I spoke of earlier, the variable intake valve on my car is now Vacuum operated instead of the original electronic valve. It seems to open Fast- least now I can measure when it opens.. and how fast it does. But, just having disconnected that plug for the valve, the little digi-meter no longer works- I get "PPP" full time.. and it doesn't turn off when the car is off. I read up- the earlier 4's had a batteries (2x AA) behind the gauges to oprate the service meter. Surely there arent some dead batteries somewheres? There are enough wires in these little cars to reach china i think. I just unplugged the bugger for now.
Oh, and if ya haven't figured it out yet- 2 paper clips will start this car without the key- pull the bottom cover under the wheel and the back of the ign. is totally exposed. The green wire is real cool - powers up everything - dash, ign, vacuum motor, and sensors and/or their idiot lights.

the 2 little wires i am not certain of yet- have suspicions but nothing garanteed.

I bypassed all of it and opted for some toggles- good luck stealing the car now.

Does anyone have a wiring diagrahm? I'd like to know what the 50 little black boxes are behind the glove box- I figured out a few so far.

And where can i find #1 cyl's coil low tension lead? - colors @ the coil?

RAJ

10-07-2004, 04:34 PM

Okay, Pics of the Side... & Inside

schussey

10-07-2004, 11:02 PM

interesting.....you gotta do away with that rice exhaust

RAJ

10-07-2004, 11:34 PM

i dig it- it is real deep, sounds kinda early european like maybe MG'ish or Alpha.

bmw///m3///

10-10-2004, 08:25 PM

the rear looks soo ricey.... like the front end fenders though. good design :grandma:

robcarync

10-10-2004, 09:19 PM

my owners manual says stock HP is 138. i havent heard anything else

ayton

10-12-2004, 02:30 PM

overall I like the kit, but the rear is horrid sorry.

RAJ

10-12-2004, 04:53 PM

Hey, No Offense taken. What do you not like? What changes would you all make?

The overall rear fenders- I dont like much either. I dont like how from the side, they end up lower than the front top edge and have a different profile- this though is very commmon as most import cars are built raked (or wedged) into the front= lowered rear fender arches. take a side profile picture- draw horizontal line from the top edge of the front arch to the rear- the line will be much higher than the rear wheel well. This aspect is built in- hard to undo.. or create the effect of equalness.

ITs been a rear annoyance... the happy medium.

I like the arches on the Opel but dont exectly like the rear valance area. The side of it I dig.

As far as my car goes- I am working on metal arches that have some what the profile of the fronts- the problem is the hich i make the them attach, the more surface area between the top of the arch and the hole for the wheel.

I opened the rear valence to relieve the air pressure build up. yes, it did make a difference on the highway for slight mileage imrovement and did make a difference in accelerating at highspeeds. I get around 35-36 mpg @ 85mph vs. the 30-32 it was achieving @ same speed.

Thanks.

RAJ

10-12-2004, 04:56 PM

Oh.. that mock up, that is with out the outer surface skin- i wasn't going to leave it open like that. it is an incomplete pic.

ayton

10-12-2004, 05:06 PM

its the rear bumper area that I don't like but you said its an incomplete pic,so... on another note I feel the single can looks out of place now that the car is wider. On a regular ti the exhauset can would look just right. i have thought about a similar exhaust for my car, but I will not be going widebody.

RAJ

10-12-2004, 05:19 PM

the "Mock up Arch" pic is the incomplete deal. So, the single Exhaust can looks funny? What about duals- In the center, or space out to each side? I had duals on it for awhile- but keeping them level was a pain.. had to make the mounts for the passenger side.. and there isn't much room with the tool kit area hanging down. The right side was always dropping a little bit using rubber hangers.

Matching the rear bumper to the fender is a bugger. I dont want to mold everything all together- it wont last that way for actual use (its not a show car)- i have contempletd making entire new piece though.

ayton

10-12-2004, 05:40 PM

yes I think the muffler looks too small IMO maybe duals would look better for the reasons stated earlier, otherwise pretty good work.

robcarync

10-15-2004, 10:09 PM

it think the exhaust does looke a bit funky with a single in the middle...id say do what they said with duals...just my $0.02

GDB

10-15-2004, 11:12 PM

I actually like the center exhaust. Although it seems like you would lose ground clearance, unless you are going around the tool kit and tire, in which case it would be more direct to have it exiting on one side. I would be really interested in seeing some pics from underneath the car (maybe on a lift) to see how you've routed the exhaust.

RAJ

10-17-2004, 05:22 PM

the routing follows stock path - but when it gets to the diff., I angle the tubing up while it turns toward center - then levels out and turns to the rear. Basically on the edge of the tool kit area. I gained clearance- since i carry a full size spare inthe trunk, and opened the valence.

Funny, some say it looks too small- but its a 6" carbon can w/ a 5" stainless exit. I have thought about 2 4" cans side by side. I made some but have not tried them.

bmw///m3///

10-20-2004, 06:01 AM

I admire that you are doing something little do and can fabricate good. The only part that doesnt work is the part where the back of the rear fender mewets the rear bumper id doesnt match. Everything else looks almost like a kit. Why do you want widebody soo bad? Widebody is used regulation during a race so the tires dont stick out farther than the tires. Yours are HUGE. Looks like a factory race prototype or something. I cant wait till I see The finished product....it ill look awwwesoome

Tyler

10-20-2004, 07:20 AM

CPU download
Cold air intake
Now produces approx. 200HP[/QUOTE]

I've never heard of anyone getting 200Hp with just an cpu download and a cai. How much Hp did you get from each of your mods??
From everything that i've read or seen the most you get from a cpu download on a ti is 10hp and a cai is like 5hp so by my count that is 155hp. where did the other 45hp come from???

RAJ

10-20-2004, 02:46 PM

As far as the Widebody, The car has 18x10 wheels on the rear and 18x9 on the front- with a 5 series offset. Each wheel weighs 20lbs with tire mounted. I still need to get wheel spacers for the rear to move them out to the edge of the fenders. 34mm ought to do it. I am not too happy with the rear fenders- I didn't want to Mold them on in case of future damage so I bolted them on using aluminum bolts and threadserts. I desired the widebody ... but first i desired more traction- My little car was sliding out on turns too much. It still does slide a little, but now it is more predictable.

And when it Comes to HP- I never said "I just did a Download". I did say I don't have a turbo or Supercharger. As i mentioned before, amazing achievements can be had with reducing reciprocating mass. Not just in the engine but along the entire driveline. Internally, this does increase output. Along the driveline, more HP get transfered to the ground b/c it isn't robbing as much HP from the engine to get it moving. Basically, you can go as far as your imagination will allow- from shaving the Flywheel weight to shaving valvetrain- anything that moves and has inertia. My car is a dog off the line- but starts to move well around 5k rpm. I can always get 2nd gear tire chirps and sometimes a 3rd gear chirp. Dropping in match-flowed injectors has a little gain- a little something nearly Everyone overlooks- just b/c there all 19lb injectors doesn't mean they are all tuned or flow the same. Some injectors allow the width of the spray to be adjusted. Adjustable Fuel regulators also achieve a bit.

I dont believe in spending $3-4k for a mere 40hp of some Downing Supercharger when I can achieve more HP from the things BMW seems to have neglected a bit- cams, head work, and pistons. Right now, I am sqeaky tight on finances, but am contemplating either going all out For a forged, knife-edged crank(scat), forged pistons, H-beam rods(scat or carillo), and some mild cams (Bekkers or a custom grind).
OR just dropping in a big engine - build some headers and motor mounts for it and virtually being done. IT is a dilema of mine>> Everything has to be made or adapted to the m44...but everything for the BMW 6 or v8 is pricey. Rebuilding the m44 with hot parts would be cheaper... but more complicated.

IF I was going to go the Supercharged or Turbo route- I'd adapt a Vortech... or Paxton, Garret, Banks, whatever... kit for a honda before using a downing.

I too have thought about Engine conversions of other manufactures. I have an entire drive train from a 5.0 mustang- i could bolt up an M3 rear supension and differential unit- make a driveshaft, the build motor mounts, and trans mounts for the 400hp engine. In a rough 2000lb car, it'd be like owning my private amusement park.

But I will probably keep playing with the Squirrel until it blows up.

RAJ

10-20-2004, 02:53 PM

Hmm, one other tid-bit: reducing crankcase pressure gains HP. Anybody ever used a vacuum pump?

RAJ

10-20-2004, 02:55 PM

I wish this thing would let me post bigger & better pics.

Jeff Spooner

10-20-2004, 08:44 PM

the stock vent valve already puts a suction on the crankcase. Too much suction and the front seal will whistle.

ClubSport

10-20-2004, 09:24 PM

Each wheel weighs 20lbs with tire mounted.

Are you sure about that? I think you need to check your scale. The lightest wheels I've seen are about 13 lbs, and they were like 17x8, not 18x10. I'd love to see the 7 lb tire on there.

TiPerformance

10-20-2004, 11:23 PM

Ok, first of all the downing alanta charger adds alot more than 40HP, come on now our engines are rated at Flywheel HP not weel HP. With the Charger you will see about 180-190 Wheel HP.

I talked to you before and you said that you had the dinan stage 3 computer reflash, but no mention of any lightening of recripication mass. CAI in most cases adds 3-4 HP and depending on the computer reflash 10-12HP Max, now on the exhaust I believe out header flows pretty well actually, so I doubt that your exhaust mods made much of a difference. I read somewhere that a race team on a TI changed the exhaust, and achieved 1HP gain on the DYNO.

The only way to be sure on anything is to have the facts and the only way to get the facts is to Dyno the car.

To reduce recripication mass you will want to knife edge the crank, use lighter pistions and connecting rods, possibly titanium valves, aluminum flywheel, among other things, and I have yet to hear any mention of them.

Tyler

10-21-2004, 05:59 AM

Actually a Downing Atlanta S/C is 70hp gain,not a mere 40hp. There's nothing you can add onto the car that is going to give you that much of a gain except for the S/C. If your looking for power your better off just swapping the engines,put a 3.2l in there.

RAJ

10-21-2004, 10:44 PM

I agree- Big motor= big fun. 70 HP for 2500.... uhg. needs to be like a $10 per added HP right. LOL. Yes, I think bottom end upgrades would be recommended for s/c or turbo.
Emissions here too- Can you even see the mountains where you live.. thru the smog? I can't see the mountains from here either so I'd say Earth is doomed, lets pop in those bumpy cams and Pass the nitro methanol.

RAJ

10-21-2004, 10:45 PM

Oh yes.. found this-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33591&item=7927734423&rd=1

gonna paste in suspension section too i suppose

RAJ

10-22-2004, 03:24 PM

GDB

10-22-2004, 04:39 PM

I am in Dallas tx- there aren't any mountains here- i have to drive 8 hrs to Alpine or Big Bend to see them. LOL

I know what you mean. I live in Tyler (about 1.5 hours east) and it's probably been a year or two since i've seen a mountain.

RAJ

10-22-2004, 07:41 PM

So You live near BMP.. they're in tyler too .. right. I was there once. I ordered a part- paid for it... and never got it. Everytime I have called, they say..you picked it up at purchase. -- I quite bothering after a year and decided I would never buy anything from them again. I'm not sore about it anymore.. but it was $175 blown. If I wanted to give away 175, I would have just taken my girl shopping.. or given it to a friend for their b-day.

Back to Mountains- ever been to Alpine or Big Bend area? It a cool place i think. Desert mostly.. but the Davis mountains have trees and the McDonald Observatory -very cool. In Teralingua there is a Beer Drinking goat and a bar- The bar owns the goat.. and the 2 are all that is left of Teralingua. kinda flat there but near big bend. Yup, ya hand the goat the beer and he grabs it in his mouth and tilts his head back.. then drops it in a bucket. So, if there is no one to drink with.. there's the goat. I think he has a limit though.

bmw///m3///

10-23-2004, 07:03 PM

I have a few pics of race cars with tower bracer.. or similar horizontal bracing. You're right, it is a tuner thing.. but rightfuly so- Looking back on my life, the tower braces came in on hot rod stangs and camaros before it hit the neon and boom box scene. Stiff as hell suspension is best, but doesn't stop unibody flex- just transfers energy.. .. and a Full tube chassis is the best thing.. but expensive. X braces, under car braces.. these are the next best things to that.

I am in Dallas tx- there aren't any mountains here- i have to drive 8 hrs to Alpine or Big Bend to see them. LOL

YA on that pic of the race car the brace isnt connected to the top of the shock tower. It supports my previous statement. My brother pointed that out to me a few weeks ago when I told him I was going to get a strut bar. It seems we buy alot of unneccesay things just because everyone else them. Oh well , soory I talk to much but just trying to save people money and possible ripped shock towers.

RAJ

10-23-2004, 07:21 PM

OH.. I know about the brace- And I agree, I think it is a better way to go. No worries , I dont think you talk to much. no apologies needed! yes, I have seen a few ripped towers.. but i thinks its mainly because it has Only been mounted to the towers. I have another car with one that mounts to 4 points- it made a Hug difference- even after all other suspension mods- it helps keep the car flat as a pancake around fast turns.

Constant

11-04-2004, 07:15 PM

Now produces approx. 200HP ....
Download tweak gave me a rough 40 horses and I moved the rev-limiter to 75** RPM

I see even 318ti.org isn't immune to ricer math! LMAO, let me see this amazing +40RWHP software download. Who's the manufacturer/tuner? Where are the dyno sheets? How much does it cost? Where can I buy it?

Constant
'96 318ti <- nowhere near 200 RWHP
'97 M3 SC'd <- 292 RWHP, dyno-proven

maurolin

11-04-2004, 08:41 PM

All I want is my Rear fenders Rolled... put a 265/40/18 in there...

the car is pretty creative, but the ricer honda exhaust is not my favorite.

RAJ

11-05-2004, 04:21 AM

I agree somewhat with the pipe being a bit ..Off, and I am working on that. But, Some here really need to read more closely- I never said I gained 40Hp from JUST a Computer Flash. I also gained this by reducing reciprocating mass throughout the drive line and internally- be it the drive shaft, flywheel, valve-train, etc. Plus raised the Red line significantly and I fabbed virtually the entire exhaust system. 40 Hp is Not that hard to accomplish- Hell, 15-20 is not that hard to achieve with just ECU tweaks, air filter, and miscellaneous tuning (match porting, tps, idle control, injector flowing etc.). By raising the Redline, horse power is gained by being able to take full advantage of the True limits of the discplacement, manifold, and port design. These are common methods to gain cheap HP- Not Rocket Science.

Constant

11-05-2004, 02:34 PM

I never said I gained 40Hp from JUST a Computer Flash. I also gained this by reducing reciprocating mass throughout the drive line and internally- be it the drive shaft, flywheel, valve-train, etc.

Yes, I still stand behind my claim that you use RICER MATH. Reducing reciprocating mass DOES NOT GIVE EXTRA POWER. If I take a Geo Metro with 80hp, strip it down 1000lbs to a frame & engine, does that mean I have a 150hp Geo Metro? NO! It just means I have a faster Geo Metro than everyone else because there's less weight to move.

If you put a lightweight flywheel on a car that previously had 150rwhp, want to know what ANY inertia dyno (Dynojet, Mustang, etc) will tell you? You STILL HAVE 150rwhp! Sure the car might be quicker off the line, but don't confuse faster = mo' powah.

40 Hp is Not that hard to accomplish- Hell, 15-20 is not that hard to achieve with just ECU tweaks, air filter, and miscellaneous tuning (match porting, tps, idle control, injector flowing etc.).

I would believe you...if you were talking about a turbocharged/supercharged car or a LS1/LS6 V8. But we're talking about a 1.9L normally aspirated engine here. I don't care if Ferrari, BMW, or Hyundai made it. In fact, IF Ferrari did make the engine for our cars, it would be even MORE difficult to extract hp.

There's no way in hell ECU tweaks, air filter, etc. on a piddly little 1.9L engine got you 40 REAL REAR WHEEL HORSEPOWER. Especially when you haven't even dyno'd your results. Physics don't support it. I'm sure someone who has the time could show that +40rwhp on a normally aspirated 318ti would exceed 100% volumetric efficiency (congrats, next you can work on time travel).

You're doing RICER MATH to add up horsepower that magazines, brochures, and Fast & Furious movies claim.

You said you have nothing to prove by dyno'ing your car...well how do you know your "tuning" actually works? As an engineer by profession, I research, design, test, RE-TEST, and even test some more before I feel confident about sending a product to the customer. Looks like you did the design part (anyone can), but where is the research & testing?

If you can prove me wrong with EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, I welcome it. I will even make a public apology and visit you personally.

Matter of fact, I will be in Dallas in a few months for Christmas. I will meet you with a 318ti that only has a Supersprint exhaust. We can dyno my 318ti vs. yours. I'll even PAY for your dyno run if you exceed my stock 318ti by +35rwhp (I'll give you benefit of the doubt and say the Supersprint adds +5rwhp according to your math). I could probably even convince a stock M3 to take a cruise down the tollway or 635 and you can show me how you stay with it up to 120. I'll even video the whole thing.

Here's your chance to back up your +40rwhp claims. What do you say?

Constant

Constant

11-05-2004, 03:43 PM

FYI,

So I had a free minute and I ended up doing the calculations based on what you said you have for fuel injectors, 19lb/hr units. The calculation estimates the level of hp the injectors are physically capable of supporting:

hp = (19lb/hr * 4 injectors * 0.8 duty cycle) / 0.5 BSFC = 121.6hp.
This is using 80% duty cycle, since injectors usually max out at 80%.
BSFC is typically 0.5 in a 4-valve/cyl BMW engine.

Even if I put 100% duty cycle (won't happen) for your so-called "match-flowed injectors", that yields:
(19lb/hr * 4 injectors * 1.0 duty cycle) / 0.5 BSFC = 152hp.

Even if I put 0.386 BSFC, which is ungodly efficient and a published number achieved by renowned tuner Pat Musi on a small-block Chevy 383ci, you get:
(19lb/hr * 4 injectors * 1.0 duty cycle) / 0.386 BSFC = 196.9hp.

Which is pretty close to your estimates...if you're saying you're on par with Pat Musi and your injectors operate at 100% duty. In addition, all these hp numbers are at the crankshaft, not rear wheel hp. So knock off another 17% or so drivetrain loss and you get 162.7hp at the rear wheels. Quite a far cry from 200rwhp...

If you can match these numbers, you better quit your day job and start up a Engine Tuning business.

Try Injector Sizing Yourself (http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET)

Constant

RAJ

11-05-2004, 04:09 PM

inertial mass does rob HP from the motor- this is why we loose power by the time it gets to the rear wheel. John Roberts BMW in Dallas Dynoed the car in 2000- Parts guy name was Kerry who was familar with my car.

If your Engineer by by Profeession, then why are you on a TI board? why would you own a TI.. why not an M3, M5, so on?

I said plainly, " I have nothing to prove"... the Car has already been dynoed.

I met an Asian guy about 2yrs ago- he had a silver M3 2 door -both of us had 1 passenger- we rolled down I30- from a 65mph roll on, I stayed right with him until the rev limiter kicked in.. And I have a witness. This was all before I shed the interior and when my car just had 30k on the clock and not using a quart of oil a week through the valve guides.

Well, I am a certified Ducati Tech since 1996- lightening valve train weight does have HP gains, as does the Flywheel, as does the rods, crank, etc. I used to dyno Bikes daily, before and after mods- Every dyno produces different results- even 2 in the same room will vary from one another.

An R32 VW i'd say is comprable to the ti- the ti weight just a little less while the R32 produces a 40-50 more- I have driven an R32, If my car is already rolling, a stock R32 would not be a all out victory for it.. if at all. I believe a SVT Focus to be a more challenging argument than an M3 definately... more equal perhaps to this equation. 1998 M3's are heavy & really somewhat boring in the way of power if stock- that's my opinion, I am more impressed with their looks rather than performance- cool car still, just not so cool for the price new.

Your saying a Supersprint exhaust gave you how much? I had one on my car -IT was real impressive with its 2 1/4" pipe and 80lbs of weight. It felt like cast iron- Still have it laying around- bought it used and bolted it up just for comparison reasons. IT is definately not worth the money. -Maybe if it is a stainless system and doesn't weigh a load.

IF Less FORCE is required to put it into motion, Then by Physics, We have more HP(FORCE) available to put it into motion. So if a Flywheel weights less, then it ROBS less. And instead of arguing with me- Why dont you argue with all the F1 Techs, maybe some World Superbike team Techs.. go find MR. Hines of Vance & Hines (race AMA and NHRA Drag bikes, or maybe NASA or Lockehead. Better yet, Dig up Einstein and argue with him to rewrite the laws of Physics. Call Crane Cams, ask them what the gain is by using their aluminum rockers (i am not using them by the way)- I can't imagine why so many would use aluminum rockers if it does nothing... Or Why suzuki decided to machine their camshafts hollow on the GSXR and Hyabusa. And I can't figure why H-beam Rods are the sh** paired up with a knife-edged crankshaft. And Gee Wiz, why do you think the European Ti make Significantly more HP stock- Could it be that BMW down tuned the ECU to meet the Smog Emissions of The USA?

RAJ

11-05-2004, 04:36 PM

Funny on the injector sizing- according to your calculations, the 2 Dyno-Proven 400 HP Mustangs( one Supercharged and one naturally aspirated) I have sitting in my shop shouldn't even run.

TiPerformance

11-05-2004, 04:46 PM

The problem with shaving mass off of the stock flywheel is making sure that it is balanced, seems alot easier to go with a light weight aluminum flywheel. However gains from a flywheel are not that much.

You refabbed the entire exhaust system, however from what I have seen is that anything from the cat back doesn't really produce any better numbers than stock, maybe 1-2 HP. I have even read of a guy who put a equal legnth header on his car with a few other mods, and the header didn't add a thing. Alll in all our header flows pretty well, it is the head that is the restrictive part.

As for lightening the valve train what did you do, because no one makes after market rockers, valves are $500+ for ferra valves, so what did you do to "lighten the valve train"?

maurolin

11-05-2004, 05:00 PM

Flywheel does not give you HP; It's purpose is to allow the car to rev up faster as the engine has to move less mass to acheive a red line.
BMW's by nature are DOGS on the low end. a Flywheel will make that better, and one Vanos Kicks in... DAMN... better watch those RPM's, cause they are Snappy!.

That and a heavy turbo clutch.

Constant

11-05-2004, 05:19 PM

If your Engineer by by Profeession, then why are you on a TI board? why would you own a TI.. why not an M3, M5, so on?

Although I have no idea what cars have to do with being an engineer, I actually do own a '97 M3 in addition to my '96 318ti. The M3 happens to be Dinan supercharged as well. Some engineers I work with drive Saturns and Toyota Corollas. They must not be "real" engineers, huh? :rolleyes:

I said plainly, " I have nothing to prove"... the Car has already been dynoed.
Then what was the output? You said "approximately 200HP". Why approximate when you dyno'd it? Let's see that dyno sheet! My M3 has EXACTLY 292.3rwhp, 250.5ft-lbs from the last dyno. No "approximately" here:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156465 Scroll down to post #21.

he had a silver M3 2 door -both of us had 1 passenger- we rolled down I30- from a 65mph roll on, I stayed right with him until the rev limiter kicked in
Are you sure he even knew you were trying to keep up or just toying with you? :D

lightening valve train weight does have HP gains, as does the Flywheel, as does the rods, crank, etc.
Sure, I don't refute that lightening VALVETRAIN gains hp, but not DRIVETRAIN, which is what you originally referred to. And the flywheel is definetely a drivetrain mod. Which will give you SQUAT on a dyno. Think of this: if you physically took the engine out of your 318ti and put it on an engine dyno, WTF would a flywheel do? It's not even attached to the engine dyno. Pray tell, how does the flywheel still bolted in your car increase the HP of a something strapped to an engine dyno?

Your saying a Supersprint exhaust gave you how much?
I didn't say it gave me anything. I'm saying by your ricer math, I'll allow you to take 5hp credit for it. I'm asking to see +35rwhp difference (not 40 like you said) between your car and the 318ti I bring with the Supersprint. Hence, I'm even making it easier for you.

IF Less FORCE is required to put it into motion, Then by Physics, We have more HP(FORCE) available to put it into motion. So if a Flywheel weights less, then it ROBS less.
I said it once and I'll say it again, in caps this time: FASTER DOES NOT EQUAL MORE HORSEPOWER. Refer to my Geo Metro comparison above. And you need to brush up on your physics. F=ma which is FORCE = mass x accel. HP is not force, unlike what you said. Horsepower is a measurement of energy, FORCE x VELOCITY. The fact that you don't understand this validates everything I've said.

So what do you say about meeting up at Christmas? If you're so confident, you might as well get a free dyno out of it. I'm sure everyone here also could benefit from your "mods" to get 200HP out of their 318ti's too.

I'll even buy you dinner at any restaurant if you get +35rwhp more, your choice. III Forks Steakhouse, the French Room at the Adolphus Hotel, the Mansion at Turtle Creek, you name it.

Constant

RAJ

11-05-2004, 06:44 PM

I figure if your an Engineer.. you get paid rather well most often - that is all, no conetation like a poor Engineer. Hell, most people are underpaid anyways.
Go to John roberts and get the Dyno sheet- they had it and did it- I didn't pay for the run-- My car was in for warranty work back then (2000) and they were curious, so they did it for their own kicks. At the same time back then there was girl (about 25) who had a new m5 making over 500hp - supercharged, nitrous, Ecu tweaks- no internal mods.

The guy had his M3 floored.. and we were side by side- We Stopped and laughed about it and i showed him there wasn't nitrous or anything.

By your reasoning on the flywheel, then what would be the gain on a drag car for not running a belt driven water pump.. or power steering on a road race car.. and why then does air consition rob hp- So, if it is on the front of the motor, does that make it also a "drivetrain" part? No. And why would reducing weight, mass, or drag on the rear of the engine be any different that the front? Oh, Because it Isn't any different.
Oh.. b/c i didn't say "force x velocity" must mean... NOT A GOD DAMN THING and IT validates what exactly.. and Just cause you are an Engineer- What does that prove? While Engineers figure out many cool items, Engineers also designed the failed Lense on the Hubble @ how many Billions of U.S. Dollars (I think I could of gotten the math on that right), the Pinto that blows up, the Gas tanks outside the frame on Chevy trucks for over 10 yrs in the 70's and 80's that also blew up on people(Genius population control)... and the Air Bag which makes no sense in reality since if 2 cars hit head on at 60mph, then we understand it to be the same as hitting a wall at 120mph- Correct.. your Mass and Velocity .. and the Rude Penalties of Motion when put to an Abrubt Stop? Then, as I have read (since i can't radar an airbag in action) an airbag has a VELOCITY of 200mph... so if i hit this car head on and we are both traveling 60mph, then this would equivalate to 120+ 200 for the guy with the airbag? IS this Correct? Engineers seem to "Engineer" some great BS .. and the Big-wig one Lobby it into the GOV, DOT, EPA, etc. Being a "Engineer" means nothing to me. Thats like Saying "DOCTOR".. there are good ones and bad ones. There's American made tools.. and there's chinese tools- Tools have a scale of quality like anything else.

You'll probably claim the Tesla Engine (turbo) is a lie also and never worked(s).

If your an engineer, then you figure out lightening valvetrain- never said it gave me 40 hp either... and if you read, I didn't claim to have used Crane Cams rockers. Hope your engineering skills are not equal to your reading skills... Since that would be an unjustified profit of M3 material.

The Mansion is rediculous and you must get paid rather well like suspected if you hang out in Turtle Creek and I don't need your dinner- Thanks. I will meet you if my lovely German honda doesn't blow up by then. Oh, and when they told me it made "an almost 200hp" that was over 40,000 miles ago - As an Engineer, you Should also know then my car is a bit out of its prime and oil going by the valve guides doesn't produce the best HP these days.

One thing I realize we do agree on- The stock header is sufficient.

TiPerformance

11-05-2004, 06:49 PM

SOOOOO......what did you do to lighten the valve train them????

Also you saying that your car is out of it's prime "because of oil going by the valve guides" is the car blowing blue smoke? If not then it isn't using that much if not any more than when it was 40,000 ago, and that shouldn't affect your 200HP claim by much if any.

Constant

11-05-2004, 07:09 PM

I can't respond to the previous post because someone said my reading skills aren't that great. LOL.

So does that mean we're not meeting up to dyno cars? :no:

By the way, not sure how John Roberts BMW dyno'd your car since THEY DON'T HAVE A DYNO. You can't pass that one off on me. My 318ti was bought and serviced there while in DFW.

Oh well. I'm sure the dyno would have broken your heart anyway... :dance:

Constant

Constant

11-05-2004, 07:11 PM

is the car blowing blue smoke?
It's blowing BS, but that BS doesn't stand for Blue Smoke. :yikes:

Constant

TiPerformance

11-05-2004, 07:12 PM

Here are some good articles for you to read.
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/march03/ask_sarah/
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/performance/e36_m3_lightweight_flywheel_effects.html

So now that we have determined that a lightened flywheel doesn't produce any HP gains, you are saying you got 200 HP from where? That 200HP would be Wheel HP if it was Dynoed, so we are looking at about a 80 Wheel HP gain over stock. So you are claiming you got this power from.

1. Lightened valve train Which you have yet to say what this consisted of

2. A lightened flywheel which we have eatablished does not increase HP

3. An Full Custom reworked exhaust system

4. A computer reflash, which in a PM earlier I was told it was a Dinan stage 3 reflash

If I am missing something Please let me know

RAJ

11-05-2004, 07:32 PM

You determined lightened Flywheel doesn't gain. As I said, if removing drag on the front of the engine has HP gains- hence electric water pumps and power pulleys, then why would the flywheel be any different- Not Turning as much load... Brain Boy.

I drilled and shaved the Valve train.. With an Engineer friends Lathe who lives down the street from me.

and at the time there was a Dyno @ Street Leathal.. i think it was called. There are only a Few dozen Dyno's in dallas to choose from. Oh gee, if we don't have a dyno.. does that mean it can't be dynoed? Uh... Whatever.

Well, I habve to put a Quart in a Week, And lets see, I have a Supercharged Roush With 2 broken pistons (confirmed by me, FORD, and Roush) .. and it doesn't realease Blue smoke. Riddle me that Constant Who.. What? Engineer of What?

RAJ

11-05-2004, 07:43 PM

excuse me- I meant a Friend's mill- he also has a lathe.

TiPerformance

11-05-2004, 08:13 PM

Being man enough to say "maybe my claims are off" would be a good thing to do right now. Or If you are still certain that you are right and your car makes close to 200HP then dyno the car and Post the dyno sheet.

Saying "I have nothing to prove" is a lame ass excuse and if you are so confident why not take the man up on his challenge???? I mean all you have to do is beat his car by 35HP, which is nothing since your car is putting down near 200HP and he is probably around 125 I mean you have the HP to double his 35 HP challange, and he will even buy you dinner any pay for your dyno and come to you, so the $ is not an excuse.

Most performance oriented people love to know the actual numbers their car is putting down.

Constant

11-05-2004, 08:30 PM

RAJ can claim whatever horsepower he wants.
And I can claim the horsepower numbers aren't real until proven otherwise.

If you know people (they tend to exaggerate hp ratings and fish sizes) youll know to take the hp rating with a grain of salt.
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know that I should automatically assume BS on hp ratings. Tell me something, was the dyno sheet I posted an exaggeration?

Apparently it's okay to post big fat fake numbers because some people like to hear a FISH STORY vs TRUTH. :rolleyes:

Constant

RAJ

11-05-2004, 08:44 PM

And Yes, We can dyno the cars. Ooo Weee.

bmw///m3///

11-05-2004, 08:44 PM

heres a dope widebody you can use for refence.

maurolin

11-05-2004, 10:15 PM

what's wrong with Ti's??? and Engeneers REALLY don't have time to spend cleanning and caring for their cars.... They drive crappy cars and enjoy it. They are underpaid and have yellow teeth from all the coffe.

TiPerformance

11-05-2004, 10:26 PM

And Yes, We can dyno the cars. Ooo Weee.

So he accepts the challange
:joy:

Well not everyone that sees his HP claims understands they are BS, and the point of a forum is to provide good information. All in all when whe have people coming in and make all kinds of Off the wall claims it kinda makes the forum as a whole look bad.

The point of the story is don't be a doumbass and come here to lie about ****.

Constant

11-05-2004, 11:40 PM

ya and all asians drive like s*%t........oh wait, they do.

You do realize that I happen to be Asian, right? Care to revise that claim, or are you STEREOTYPING and being an all-around bigot?

I'm surprised you didn't generalize some other ethnic groups while you're at it. How old are you?

Constant

schussey

11-05-2004, 11:42 PM

bmwm3- you need to stop stereotyping

constant- you need to chill. you are branded as the first person i have ever seen on this site to get agitated at another member.

LAME

Constant

11-05-2004, 11:43 PM

And Yes, We can dyno the cars. Ooo Weee.

Good, I'll be there Dec 20-26th. Keep it touch. ;)

Constant

GDB

11-06-2004, 12:35 AM

excuss me my intent was not to offend. I thought is was funny how maurolin was over generalizing Engineers, so I made another over generalization I had heard about azians and thought some would MAYBE get the Bigot comparison between engineers and asians, but nobody got the joke.
Oh well Ill chuckle on my own. :google:

Im white, 22.and damn proud of my japanese girlfriend. and yes she drives like ****. I go to school at mt sac and its like almost 50% asian , once a asian ran into me when I was waiting in the parking lot, another asian ran me off the freeway and , and for old asians on the phone....watch out... I also got ran into a few times at the slopes by crazy asian skiers.(stereotyping huh?) I have more experiences and stories but will stop there. explain that????seriously

things are different where I live than you guys, so my experiences/opinons are different than yours///

ps. will erase all UN-raj widebody posts once my replies have been hearddddd
I thought the engineering thing was funny (probably because I'm an aspiring engineer) and I did get the point of the asian joke.

bmw///m3///

11-06-2004, 02:42 AM

THat would be funny is RAj's car really puts out around 200 hp........you guys will look like big dumbasses.
RAJ- the pressures on , will you deliver??? :?:

TiPerformance

11-06-2004, 02:55 AM

Better go get ur Nawzzzz , I bet he won't go through on the deal.

ClubSport332ti

11-06-2004, 04:22 AM

I am starting to love this forum!

TiPerformance

11-06-2004, 04:24 AM

Hellz yeah, me too

GDB

11-06-2004, 05:13 AM

Alright, we've officially had our first forum argument :icon_pist

1996 328ti

11-06-2004, 06:55 AM

I don't think it's the first and there is nothing wrong with arguing, just let it not get personal.

RAJ

11-06-2004, 08:10 PM

That is a "Dope" TI //BMW//M3-thanks.

Did I stereo Type- Didnt mean too if so. I just said the Asian guy and I talked and laughed as we raced Bimmer against Bimmer- Is that stereotyping? As Far as the tools- There might be higher quality asian tools, I am just unfamilar with them.. and likely most of the ones imported into this country are not the Good stuff.

Thank you all in support.... And Not. This Is a waste of energy- Point taken to Heart.

I Do not For certain know the Exact HP of my ti, I was told by John Roberts its pushing nearly 200HP .. and the guys there were really stoked someone was interested in playing with the little car-- I used to work on the Owners Son's Motorcycles in 1998- and that is why I bought the car from them I got a deal>>
but I do know I have stayed with an M3 and a Stock mustang GT (99) up to the ignition kill @ 130mph. Didnt say I passed these more serious cars, just that I stayed side by side or right on the tail.

200 Hp is not far fetched in my thoughts and expiriences- its a DOHC 1.9, the first M3 was a 4cyl and a 2.0L it made 200hp eh ... and that was in 87? So were talking about my 98 model 10 yrs after the m3 4cyl.- technology has chnaged a little and improvement have been made. The Euro model makes 165-195HP I have been told- this is generally due to cams and ECU tuning that is not suppressed by our EPA standards. as reference, A Focus SVT has 170 Hp according to Ford- Thats not with nitrous or turbocharger ,etc. The Ti has a reasonable weight advantage too compared to some of these others cars. My car will do a burn out even with 12" wide BFG tires on the rear-just dropping the clutch at 2k rpm- something it wouldn't do stock with the stock 5 spoke sport rims.
My interest here is not to BS other Ti owners.. As I too think the Ti is a cool underdog. Hopefully, some will become inspired, learn, and attempt new ideas. There isn't much out there for these cars. so it is up to us- right.

And All is fine -If some wish to believe its BS...Great, I dont care.

If someone one wishes to run against my car- All is good, I am up for it. I'm am just not up for Slandering and slamming. I dont get pissed when I loose a race- My car isn't the fastest crap out there.. and I don't mock those that loose, But offering to buy me Dinner and such, is like Pittying me, mocking me, whatever- And the race hasn't even happened- even if it was in a generous fashion- the context was all wrong for me to consider it a nice gesture.

I eat well thank you, and against everything that is up against me, I sleep well too.
As far as my car goes, I do the best I can with the tools and $'s that I have.

RAJ

11-06-2004, 08:16 PM

ClubSport- With Hoosier Road race Slicks On these OZ wheels, each wheel weighed 20lbs on a concrete floor with a anolog scale.

RAJ

11-06-2004, 08:24 PM

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/techletters/0000ec_techletters02a/BMW
___________________________________________________________________ Hatch Help
I'm a long time subscriber to your magazine, back when it was VW& Porsche. I have a '95 318ti, I like the hatch back, but it needs more power.Is there any turbo kit for this motor. I didn't want to do a motor swap.
Thanks,
Jeff

Jeff, Mosselman makes a turbo kit. The problem is finding a place to buy one. Turner Motorsport used to carry them, but not anymore. There was rumor that Wheel Power (www.wheelpower.com) had some, but we couldn't determine that from their website.

We'd recommend navigating the company's website--www.mosselman.com to find a source. The Mosselman turbo for the 318ti produces 182 hp @ 6000 rpm and 187 lb-ft torque @ 4500 rpm. It's 6-7 psi boost starts at 1200 rpm.

There is also a supercharger kit, which is the choice of most enthusiasts seeking forced induction on a 318ti, E36 318iS, or Z3 1.9. Downing Atlanta (www.downingatlanta.com) makes and excellent Eaton blower system that is worth every penny of $3,395. For anyone with a good mechanical skills, it's an easy install that produces over 200 hp @ 6500 rpm. And it's smog-legal in California.

Unfortunately, the Downing Atlanta supercharger does not work on the E30 318is, due to that engines belt drive configuration and lack of knock sensors.

The 318ti is an excellent car, and the utility of the hatchback is clear. It is unfortunate that U.S. car buyers seem to equate the hatchback design with "economy cars." This, the 318ti's lack of thrust, and basic trim level were subjects of derision for some car magazines. Too bad, too; the 318ti is an E36 3 Series without all the E36 problems--less electronic failures, and the semi-trailing arm rear suspension means the rear suspension carrier will never rip out of the floor as sometimes happens with the multi-link design on other E36 models so equipped. --Mike Miller

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RAJ

11-06-2004, 08:28 PM

http://www.automotive.com/buy/used/14/64686/31/ ---
nice Ti for sale

bmw///m3///

11-06-2004, 08:34 PM

Raj you didnt stereotype. I think what you doing is cool and I hope if you race you STOMP his ass. I dont think you pushing 200 hp but would like to be proven wrong.............are you claiming 200 hp flywheel is so, youll have it up thier pretty soon. keep it up :8-) I thought you were claiming 200 bhp and I was thinking your on crack. I think the other guys should stop critizing and listen to you because you have good ideas and vis-versa.///

Also I think it would be most helpful if someone could fiquire out the difference for the EURO SPEC engines(components-such as cams, intake, etc). Factory mods are the way to go and more reliable than those aftermarket stuff. DAmn the US specs, we always get screwed........

RAJ

11-06-2004, 08:43 PM

http://users.belgacom.net/bmw_z3/bmw_z3_engines.htm

RAJ

11-06-2004, 09:08 PM

Ya know, I have a - 112rwHP Ducati 916 and I have been working on Ducati bikes for roughly 8 yrs now- but in the last 4yrs, this has not been on a daily basis. But, my point is, I know the difference between a 98rwHp bike and 112hp bike. My race bike 916 in 1998 produce 130rwhp.. and it was much faster than my 112hp street bike.
I am 30 now but when i was 16 I got into Vw bugs (Owned a 1965 and 1956) When i got the cars once had a 1500cc and the '56 had a 1641cc with lightened flywheel and dual carbs. I pulled the 1641 and built a 1835cc with 40mm dual downdraft webers, a JSC race case, Engle120 camshaft, Engle forged crank and rods, Cima forged pistons and all balanced, + Dual Oval Port S&S triple valve spring heads- The Car Hauled ass... and It could launch off the line and even lift the front wheels about 4". I know the 1500 single port engine made 65hp.. but this 1835cc was my estimate to be 140hp- in a trim 1200lb car. Then, I figured this by 1/4 mile times.. since i knew the weight of the car i was able to mathmatically figure this out- at the time too, I knew Lots of people doing the same things and their results.

Anyway, my point is I have an understanding of what HP feels like in certain vehicles. 500 Hp in a 6000lb car doesnt feel like much- but as we make changes to our cars.. we realize benefits and burdens.
Raising the redline to 7000rpm makes a tremendous difference-My Ti really starts making power then.. and keeps making it until the rev limiter kicks in. Proposed by The Dinan/bmw dealer, the Dinan upgrade I obtained is not generic- I told them to push it open since i was'nt concerned about wear and tear. too, they claimed to have achieved more than a generic 15-20 HP.

bmw///m3///

11-06-2004, 09:29 PM

ya since the factory rev limited 135 hp rating is achieved at 6500 rpm (which is high), I could see squeezing and extra 10hp in higher rpms alone.... I mostly talk out of my ass but my pops owns a german shop for over 30 years and teaches me alot of stuff he knows.

bimmerboi318

11-06-2004, 10:41 PM

Reducing reciprocating mass doesnt mean stripping the car down. It means reducing the mass of reciprocating parts in the engine, which does wonders for power gains. I'm not sure if that was cleared up or not, I got lost in all of the posts :icon_eek: But if he had the engine torn down...there's alot he could have done. We're too used to living in our "bolt on" world. He's got 110 hp per liter if his claims are accurate. That's not that hard to do these days even with NA. Look at Honda's S2000, that's 100hp per liter in stock form (assuming that I'm correct with it being a 2.4 liter with 240hp).

Stuff like lightweight flywheels doesnt actually increase the theoretical hp created by combustion, but it does increase the power being transferred to the wheels. And that my friends, is what counts. Hp at the wheels. Every ounce you take from the drivetrain, is more force that can be applied to the road.

bmw///m3///

11-06-2004, 10:45 PM

RAJ

11-07-2004, 08:35 AM

BimmerBoi318- That is exactly what I was attemting to get accross- by reducing energy wasted.. you gain energy. I concur- Very Well Put.

BMW//M3 - Isn't the stock redline like 6000RPM? it has been so long since mine was stock- cant recall. On 2 Stroke engines in GP bikes or Mx bikes, raising the ports increases RPMs achievable and power. Sometimes too, in any engine, destroking (shorter rods) can increase the engines ability to handle high RPMs for more power- IF this is desired but also wish to retain displacement or go bigger- Larger bores and pistons can be done. destroking can be cool since it makes the engine perfect for high boost turbo or supercharger applications - The best example i Know of such Mods is the Dahlback Golf with AWD.

the funny thing here to me is, 135hp is the lowest HP that most claim is stock ti rating. As I think I said Earlier, I have seen some BMW Spec sheets for US models claiming 165hp. Not calling Bluff, but why so many different specs floating around for stock #'s on the same car?

good night

TiPerformance

11-07-2004, 04:30 PM

the funny thing here to me is, 135hp is the lowest HP that most claim is stock ti rating. As I think I said Earlier, I have seen some BMW Spec sheets for US models claiming 165hp. Not calling Bluff, but why so many different specs floating around for stock #'s on the same car?

good night

That must have been a misprint or you were looking at a different engine, because everywhere I have read and seen the stock M44 engine has 138HP,just open your owners manual and you will see the same 138HP rating that everyone else claims.

Again the ricer math is getting to you, that body kit probably adds 30HP and then that center mount exhaust is probably worth another 20HP, get about 20 stickers and you will soon have more horsepower than Raima. It will be great to know that this will soon be sorted out, and you will know the true HP rating of your car.

TiPerformance

11-07-2004, 04:40 PM

The only way that you will even come close to 200HP N/A is if you do the following.

Raised compression 10.5 - 11:1
Ported and polished cylinder head, with oversized valves
Higher lift cams
Ported and polished intake manifold, or Individual throttle body manifold
Computer reflash

RAJ

11-07-2004, 05:44 PM

Usually bizarre egos are discovered in the glove boxes of various muscle cars, not 318ti's. You might consider some Advil for your swelling head.

TiPerformance

11-07-2004, 06:46 PM

If anyone has a swollen head it is you, thinking you have 200HP. Before you come posting your BS atleast be able to back it up with proof, which I have yet to see any. And the childish stereotypes are getting more retarded with every post. It wouldn't matter if you had a Geo metro or even a yugo, if you claim stuff that isn't real expect me to question it, sorry but that is just the way I am.

Constant

11-07-2004, 07:06 PM

Funny on the injector sizing- according to your calculations, the 2 Dyno-Proven 400 HP Mustangs( one Supercharged and one naturally aspirated) I have sitting in my shop shouldn't even run.

and then...

And lets see, I have a Supercharged Roush With 2 broken pistons (confirmed by me, FORD, and Roush)

Did anyone catch that? I'm dying here, I can barely type this as I'm on the floor laughing so hard! ROFL LMFAO!

Constant

TiPerformance

11-07-2004, 07:29 PM

Usually bizarre egos are discovered in the glove boxes of various muscle cars, not 318ti's. You might consider some Advil for your swelling head.

This is great

And lets see, I have a Supercharged Roush With 2 broken pistons (confirmed by me, FORD, and Roush)

bimmerboi318

11-07-2004, 11:02 PM

I was watching car and driver tv today on spike and they had the SEMA car show and were showing some import tuner vendors. They had a crate motor for hondas designed for reliablility and performance, couldnt tell if it was a 2.0 or 2.4, but completely NA it had 270hp at the crank. It was called "the beast" or something along those lines.

I'm not saying RAJ has 200hp or not, as I haven't seen proof either. But I also haven't seen proof of his claim being inaccurate.

On a not-so-completely seperate note, I got a G-tech awhile back and was getting about 120-125hp at the wheels. Seemed pretty accurate IMO. Maybe we could get a rough guess with one? The only problem is, for it to be accurate, you have to KNOW exactly how heavy your car is. I was rounding up to about 3100lbs with all the extra crap, gas, and myself sitting in it.

TiPerformance

11-08-2004, 12:44 AM

Yeah, that is a 2.0L honda engine, however they are running as follows,

84mm bore
89mm stroke
140.8 rod lenght
11.5:1 compression

BHP: 270@7800rpms
Trq: 185@6000rpm

Internals:
Dart block: closed deck
Gsport Pro rods from Oliver Racing
Gsport Pro pistons from WISECO
Gsport Pro spec crank
Gsport spec cams
Host of Mr. Gasket gaskets
Skunk2 IM
DC Sports 4-1 header
Cat-back exhaust
AEM v2 intake

and who know what else is done to it that is what I found on a honda site, nothing was said except only the highest quality parts were used, and nothing was mentioned about the computer control.

BTW, the retail on this motor is around 12k....so it better damn well put out near 270hp.

GDB

11-08-2004, 01:05 AM

You have to keep in mind that honda heads are known for flowing incrdibly well from the factory. I don't know how BMW stacks up, but you cannot say that two engines will produce similar power just because they have similar displacments. There are a million other variables to take into consideration.

RAJ

11-08-2004, 09:21 AM

A Metro might actually be worth questioning..., but I am used to this sort of thing. When I raced bikes, the bike was protested 2 times- a guy claiming I had illegal mods internally- specifically, he said pistons the first time, and cams the second. Course, the one in protest had to pay $500 to me for being wrong and for the inconveinience of me having to tear down the engine to prove it- which in turn ruins a race weekend.

2 yrs ago, I came across similar slander on another BMW forum- in the end, I made some decent friends there that I still communicate with, but quit going to that particular site due to the same b.s..

Sorry for any dissapointments.... I did say "approximately" .

I am dissapointed I had to Shrink and reduce Quality beyond reason to post it.

good day.

RAJ

11-08-2004, 10:16 AM

A ti should beat a stock civic from y2000 back(not sure about the newer models) with equal mods in some instances. The power band is different- likely due to manifold, cam and head differences. Never drag raced a civic from a dead stop, but my guess is that they are quicker off the line(drag racing doesn't much do it for me- I prefer Top speed or lots of turns)..., But The Ti seems to me that it comes on stronger in the midrange and definately in the High RPMs... as long as you dont have to shift into 5th(this gear aggrivates me). As far as these 2 (stock) vehicles, It is my belief that it truly comes down to weight and intake manifolds. I know they aren't any trouble usually.
Factory Ti 1996:
Bore x Stroke: 3.35 x 3.29, 85.0mm x 83.5mm
CU. In./CC.: 116/1895cc
Comp Ratio: 10.0:1
Bosch HFM-Motronic 5.2
0-60mph: 8.3/9.6 -car&driver 8.2 april 1997

The fuel economy thing is funny - "23cty/32hwy"
I never got below 35 Hwy, 25cty even romping

Factory Civic specs below--

BUT, I could be Completely Wrong here.
I have only driven one Civic.. and 2 preludes. The 2nd Prelude I drove was in 94 or 95 - it was when the new body came out, my friend wanted one to replace his clapped out 91 (or he thought) so I went and took a look- it BROKE on my 20 minute test drive- we limped it back to the dealer clanking and smoking. Real impressive. The 91 he had was somewhat quick for the time I guess... and the car fell apart around the engine until 100k miles- then he sold what was left.

Civic VTi 96-2000
Dispacement 1595cc
Bore X Stroke 81.0mm X 77.4mm
Compression ratio 10.2 to one
Cylinder Block Cast iron
Max Power 158bhp @ 7600rpm
Max torque 113lb ft @ 7000rpm
0-60mph (secs) 7.7
0-110mph (secs) 27.5
Standing 1/4 mile (secs/mph) 15.5/89
Max speed (mph) 128
All figures and information here above is taken from the magazine Performance Car, except for 0-60 mph is taken from
Top Gear magazine.

Civic Type-R 2000
Bore x stroke (mm) 86 x 86
Capacity (cc) 1998
Compression ratio 11.0:1
Max power PS/kW 200 / 147 @ rpm 7,400
Max torque Nm 196 @ rpm 5,900
Kerb weight (kg) 1204
http://www.live2cruize.com/honda_civic_type-r_2002.htm

Nippon(Japan) specs:

Engine B16A G1 B16A G2 B16A G3 B16B B18C 96 spec.R

Block Height 1 263mm Same Same 270mm 270mm
Bore x Stroke 81.0mm x 77.4mm Same Same Same 81.0mm x 87.2mm
Displacement 1595cc Same Same Same 1797cc
Compression Ratio 10.2 10.4 10.4 10.8 11.1
Valve Train Belt driven, DOHC VTEC, 16 valves Same Same Same Same
Maxinum Output 160ps @ 7600rpm 170ps @ 7800rpm 170ps @ 7800rpm 185ps @ 8200rpm 200ps @ 8000rpm
Maxinum Torque 15.5kgm @ 7000rpm 16.0kgm @ 7300rpm 16.0kgm @ 7300rpm 16.3kgm @ 7500rpm 18.5kgm @ 7500rpm
Specific Output 100ps/l 106.3ps/l 106.3ps/l 115.6ps/l 111.1ps/l
Intake/Exhaust Valve Size 33.0mm/28.0mm Same Same Same Same
Intake opening (BTDC) 10 15 15 18 15
Intake closing (ABDC) 40 45 45 45 45
Intake duration 230 240 240 243 240
Exhaust opening (BBDC) 40 40 40 45 45
Exhaust closing (ATDC) 7 7 7 10 10
Exhaust duration 227 227 227 235 235
Overlap 17 22 22 28 25
Intake valve lift (mm) 10.6 10.7 10.7 11.5 11.5
Exhaust valve lift (mm) 9.4 9.4 9.4 10.5 10.5
Intake/Exhaust Valve Springs Dual/Single Dual/Single Dual/Single Dual/Dual Dual/Dual

USA B Series Engine Statistics :

Engine USA B17A USA B18C USA B18C spec.R

Block Height 1 263mm (10.354") 270mm (10.630") Same
Bore x Stroke 81.0 x 81.4mm (3.19 x 3.20in) 81.0 x 87.2mm (3.19 x 3.43in) Same
Displacement 1678cc (102.4 cid) 1797cc (109.6 cid) Same
Compression Ratio 9.7 10.0 10.6
Valve Train Belt driven, DOHC w/VTEC, 16 valves Same Same
Maxinum Output 160hp @ 7600rpm 170hp @ 7600rpm 195hp @ 8000rpm
Maxinum Torque 117lbs-ft @ 7000rpm 128lbs-ft @ 6200rpm 130lbs-ft @ 7500rpm
Specific Output (output/liter) 94.1hp/l 94.4hp/l 108.3hp/l
Intake/Exhaust Valve Size 33.0/28.0mm Same Same
Intake opening (BTDC) 10 10 15
Intake closing (ABDC) 40 40 45
Intake duration 230 230 240
Exhaust opening (BBDC) 40 40 45
Exhaust closing (ATDC) 7 7 10
Exhaust duration 227 227 235
Overlap 17 17 25
Intake valve lift (mm) 10.6 (0.417") 10.6 (0.417") 11.5 (0.453")
Exhaust valve lift (mm) 9.4 (0.370") 9.4 (0.370") 10.5 (0.413")
Intake/Exhaust Valve Springs Dual/Single Dual/Single Dual/Dual

KIRASIR

11-08-2004, 11:27 AM

I got tired a while ago of wading though all this BS. I think this picture will describe this thread the best.

and then...

Did anyone catch that? I'm dying here, I can barely type this as I'm on the floor laughing so hard! ROFL LMFAO!

Constant

Constant

11-08-2004, 02:38 PM

I don't mean to belabor this thread, but this is just something everyone (including RAJ) should be aware of:

RAJ, the dyno sheet you posted does not make sense. If John Roberts BMW or whomever misled you, then it's not your fault you think you have 200hp. But they either lied to you or did the dyno incorrectly.

By the relationship between hp and torque, the lines on the dyno MUST cross at 5252rpm: hp = torque*rpm/5252. An astute reader will note that below 5252rpm any engine's torque number will always be higher than its horsepower number. Above 5252rpm the horsepower number will always be higher than its torque number. At 5252rpm, horsepower and torque will be exactly the same, thus the reason why the lines cross.

You can clearly see on the dyno posted that the hp & torque lines never even get close to intersecting. It almost looks like they took a completely different car's dyno and replaced the "real" hp curve. The torque number I would believe. If the hp were to intersect the torque curve, it would be making approx 100hp at 5252rpm. If I had to guess, it would probably peak at 125rwhp or so.

Again, not my opinion but rather Physics.

Constant

Jeff Spooner

11-08-2004, 04:23 PM

love the picture KIRASIR

RAJ

11-08-2004, 04:28 PM

Constant- I hear what you are saying about the Torque curve- As.. IT was explained to me over the phone at the time, I asked them to pull the pipe and run the car with an open header first and a standard performance chip- And this isnt really a torque line, but a typo in that they just printed the 2 HP lines from both runs.

I am not going to argue- it was never my intention to. But the fact remains for me that I have -Kept Up- with more than 1 stock M3.. and more then 1 stock stang Gt, and passed various other imports consider equals. In the larger car of the cases , it is a Power to Weight ratio thing.

If it will make those of you disgruntled.. not, then I will just say I have a 60Hp squirrel under the hood who fights with a 30Hp Gerbil.

I thought the junk i found on the civic was interesting; Seems both cars have pretty much what is refferred to as a "a square bore and stroke"- almost equal numbers. Anyone here know the Max a ti M44 or M42 can be bored to? I have Contemplated going to an Early M3 4cyl engine- since low mile late model 52 & 62 engines are so high and there is more for it than the m44 & 42- anyone gone backwards like this that you all know of?

RAJ

11-08-2004, 04:34 PM

The dyo run was a 3rd gear roll on- I have sseen all kinds, some where people shift while recording (not the best idea to me), then, seen 1st and 2nd gear roll ons.

TiPerformance

11-08-2004, 07:10 PM

So what are those HP # on the dyno, it is kinda hard to read. If you want to send me the dyno sheet I will resize it in photoshop for you. My e-mail is black98zq8@yahoo.com

GDB

11-08-2004, 07:15 PM

I have never heard of anyone shifting during a dyno pull.

RAJ

11-08-2004, 10:37 PM

yup- went to this Hoopty shop one time, the guy was dynoing this camaro shifting it through- while recording. It was scary as he rolled on 2nd and banged into 3rd to roll on again. I *might* see where it could make since if there is a transition problem in the fuel managemnet/ carbueration - like from the needles to the main jets.. and so on. I went there to check it out cause i was going to dyno one of my mustangs- i decided not there.

#'s = 186.0_ Dinan 3, carbon slip-on, air filter, .
& 110.46 generic chip, open header.

but who knows, I wasn't there and the shop closed for some reason- who know how the calibrated the dyno too. As I mentioned a Long Time ago, I dont take Dyno #'s to heart they all vary denpending on the weather, the local room enviroment, and the calibration. I was on one one time and the dyno brake was dragging the whole time.. so I knew it was lying to me- had to pull my **** off, fix the dyno and start over. The graph though is excellent to see where trouble exist.. and where improvemnets can be made. I really don't give a F*** , never really was into 4cyl cars.. but its a good grocery getter and I know its better than 140hp.

is there a way to post mpeg here- if you dont have web page to post it?

TiPerformance

11-08-2004, 10:56 PM

The only problem that I see is that since you have a 98 you can't just change Chips, that would involve reprogramming the computer. Also a computer reflash, exhaust, and Air filter don't add anywhere near 76 HP. Sounds to me like the 110 Hp might be a little low though. Look at this here http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185623 a dyno for a stock M42 putting down about 125HP, which again goes to prove each dyno is different

Best thing to do when you Dyno is Find a reliable place, and stick with only them.

manhands78

11-08-2004, 11:59 PM

Hi i am looking to buy a 95 318ti with 132k on it from a used car lot. I think there has been one owner. But i'm looking for you guys to tell me what is it like to repair these cars is it ridiculously expensive or not that bad. I'm a mid 20's university grad without lots of cash. If i can get a powertrain warranty for a year from the dealer (which i am thinking of getting) what else not covered by warranty might cost me alot. I am on the east coast of canada without a bmw dealer in the city but a few places that service beamers. let me know :)

RAJ

11-09-2004, 08:33 AM

Ti Perf- Agreed - I know a K&N with Program wont add 76 HP- but I have done a bit more than that, while all the little other mods might be worth .2 through to 25 HP, I am still working on it and tuning it as the $ permits. Yes, a Dyno is like any other service> find one you like, trust, and keep to it.
Lately, the ECU has been giving me massive fits with crazy fault codes -yet to find any failed devices: tested ohms/forward & reverse bias. So far, nothing shows wrong- the car is running alright, but that is kinda eratic- think the coil is starting to breakdown... varying spark strength ... or something else that could also be intermitent (wires). I have 7-8 codes- really dont feel like typing them- got the answers to them all... but every test says the code is a mistake. Other than that, I think the ECU is going to take a poop... been warned about that. Oh well, if it does ..I'll get toilet paper.

MAnhands- a car with 132k on the clock but a full year powertwain warranty? Does that exist? Lots of cash- Go get an R32 VW- LOTS of Goodies and AWD. OR get ti and make just about everything for a car no longer imported, Few parts manufactures cared when it was, BUT has many options (engine swaps) and some compatability to other BMWs. If you love the Ti, the Ti will Love you back surely if it hadn't already been neglected. The factory parts are like any other Factory's parts- some high, some low, some right on target. Clutches can be stupid high.. but cheaper than a new automatic if one were ever needed. If you get the car... SHOP the market for what you wants. Some shops (non dealer) try to nail ya with 200% mark up.

Anyone have bias opinions of the M42 vs. the M44 engine in Manhands Case?

RAJ

11-09-2004, 08:38 AM

Anyone want to buy a Roush 3 in need of ONE piston?

bimmerboi318

11-10-2004, 04:04 AM

Personally I think we might need a new thread for Manhands question :rolleyes:

RAJ

11-10-2004, 06:19 AM

YUP.. Manhands needs some careful planning/ thinking.

http://www.revotechnik.com/usa/usrevo.html
>This Company seems to achieve 50 HP average with their ECU Flashing for VWs And Audi

95M3032679

12-14-2004, 10:27 PM

Any recent pics of your project widebody?

RAJ

12-15-2004, 12:40 AM

Those are as recent as it gets-- no permanent changes yet. Working on metal fenders now that will/ can be either welded or bolted on. then will also make molds off those for carbon or fiberglass versions. Its a long term thing as i get spare time.. or exess boredom- wichever arrives first.

riker

12-15-2004, 03:25 AM

dunno about all this arguing over hp gains and what not.. but get back to finishing up your widebody.. I think everyone who's posted on this thread would be interested in seeing a finished product.

DO IT DO IT DO IT.. -starsky and hutch

Silver00spike

12-16-2004, 01:16 AM

Silver00spike

12-16-2004, 01:21 AM

also, unlike you said before, an r32 does not weigh anything close to a 318ti

GDB

12-16-2004, 01:57 AM

aren't bugs FWD? YOu lifted the driving wheels off the ground?

nope, the engine is in the back.

aceyx

12-16-2004, 02:56 AM

alright, so a few questions:

if you're a ducati tech, how do you find time to work on your ti? :D

joking aside, why put such radical flares and big tires on the ti if you're concerned with performance? any appreciable gain in hp (i'm not going to argue that point because well, it's dumb. who cares) is counteracted by the excess weight you've added to this. wrc cars put out about 275hp, and have no need for such extreme measures. furthermore, not even the e46 m3 gt requires tires that wide, and my guess is that it puts a hell of a lot more power down on the asphalt, not to mention has a lower c/f value.

if you're sliding in that car, you may want to think about tire compounds or driving techniques. even with a skittish rear end and not enough weight to plant the tires down well, i've had trouble swishing out an e30 m3 unless i purposely yanked the wheel or dropped the clutch. do it right, and you can get the tires to sing at 75mph in a 30 degree sweeper.

and let's keep the two-wheeled bretheren out of this conversation. you know and i know that hp means crap without a decent rider (or at least i know and rossi knows) not to mention it's apples to casaba melons.

on the other side, i think the fab works is pretty impressive. the lines are pretty clean and it's not foolishly garish. a bit more than what i would do, but to each his own.