318ti Turbo Conversion info needed!!

[Haigys.Hog.England]

hello from sunny england,
i have just bought a garrett T25 turbo charger ready to convert on to my E36 318ti compact, but i need to get hold of some low compression pistons and possibly some larger injectors, can any one push me in the right direction?
as over here there all useless, if anyone knows a rough price aswell it would be great


cheers

[ZeroG]

hello from sunny england,
i have just bought a garrett T25 turbo charger ready to convert on to my E36 318ti compact, but i need to get hold of some low compression pistons and possibly some larger injectors, can any one push me in the right direction?
as over here there all useless, if anyone knows a rough price aswell it would be great


cheers

For pistons I would go with JE and Total Seal Rings, no clue on the cost I am thinking like $500.00 for both. Injectors I can get for you let me know what you need.

Price $65.00 ea.

28.8 #
35.5 #
44.5 #

If you are using the stock manifold these are non shrouded injectors so a injector adapter sleve would be required for install.

-Chad

[GDB]

Pistons usually run from $400 - $500 for a set of 4 with rings. I would try talking to Arias, JE, or Paeco and see if any of them have the specs on hand so that you don't have to send in a piston or make a mold of your combustion chamber. Good luck with this and let us know how it works out.

[318.g25]

hello i have a 97 with a mosselman turbo (g25)i was wondering if anybody has a air\fuel ratio gauge hooked up and what the reading is and how to fool the computer

[Freedy]

"hello i have a 97 with a mosselman turbo (g25)i was wondering if anybody has a air\fuel ratio gauge hooked up and what the reading is and how to fool the computer"

I would suggest that you buy a wideband 02 sensor and guage because thats the easiest way to tune your engine precisely. It will cost around $300-400, but will be well worth it. You can also buy a fuel comtroller that adds or takes out fuel at various RPM points by cutting the voltage of the AFM signal.

Someone else needs to chime in about how the 318 CPU works to measure air flow.

[Haigys.Hog.England]

Thanks Guys I Have Been Quoted $650 For A Set Of Pistons With Rings From A Place Called Top-end Performance Near Hollywood, Plus $79 Shipping, Is This Expensive? Does Anyone Have The Websites For The Other Piston Manufacturers At Hand?

Chad:
Im Looking At Fabricating A New Inlet Manifold So Il Let You Know Bout The Injectors, Thanks Man

Cheers All

[Constant]

Try contacting some of these piston manufacturers. Not sure if any have M42/M44 pistons in stock, but I'm sure they'll custom make anything you have in mind. These guys are all top-notch forged piston makers, commonly used in the BMW forced-induction world.

CP Pistons (http://www.cppistons.com)
Ross Pistons (http://www.rosspistons.com/)
FYI, Ross lists custom 4-cyl pistons for BMW's at less than $500/set.
Wiseco Pistons (http://www.wiseco.com/)

I believe Top End does not actually make their own, but rather has JE Pistons make them: JE Pistons (http://www.jepistons.com/)

Those Ross pistons are a bargain compared to the TopEnd/JE ones, and probably better quality.

Constant

[318.g25]

who sells the fuel controler? and the ecu is good with stock injectors up to 10lbs of boost. i don't know why you would want to get injectors unless you want more boost.
but let me know. the m44 is highly talked about with the turbo on it. the m42 on the other hand doesn't work as good due to the vane air flow in stead of mass air.

[KIRASIR]

The stock ECU at 5PSI boost with AFPR with stock injectors has a HORRIBLE A/F mixture curve.
At 10PSI with stock ECU and stock injectors you can kiss your engine good bye.

SL

PS Mosselman's turbo kit uses T-25 turbo.

...and the ecu is good with stock injectors up to 10lbs of boost.

[Haigys.Hog.England]

im hoping to use a stand alone engine management system called an emerald m3d,not sure what injectors to use can anyone recomend some for me that i can get over here?

[318.g25]

ok then what is your suggestion. larger injectors or new software for dme

[KIRASIR]

Both



ok then what is your suggestion. larger injectors or new software for dme

[318.g25]

Where Do I Get It

[318.g25]

I Have A After Market Fuel Pressure Regulator Made For My Engine Size And 12lbs Of Boost . Would Just Injectors Work Or What

[Constant]

If you upgrade the injectors with higher flowing units, you must change the software to match the injector size. With the higher flowing injectors + software, the rising rate FPR is unnecessary.

Someone also mentioned earlier that you could use a device to alter the HFM signal, "fooling" the ECU into thinking more airflow was present (like Split Second, Uni SMT6, Apexi AFC, etc). Although this may work for a while, once adaptation takes effect in the DME your fuel curve will change, and you''ll need to adjust it again. In the same way, if you just add larger injectors without upgrading the software, it *may* work under forced induction...for a while. Once the DME adapts over time and reduces the injector duty cycle, you'll start to run lean again.

In the end, it will be like a dog chasing it's own tail. To some, it is acceptable to fiddle with knobs on HFM controllers and clear adaptation every other week. I would rather do it the "right" way, like Ron Popeil says: Set it and forget it!

Constant

[318.g25]

Then What Do You Suggest I Use (what Are You Running On Your Car)!!
I Work At A Bmw Shop In Southern Louisiana And Can Do What Ever I Want

[Constant]

You might want to check out Technique Tuning (http://www.techniquetuning.com/m44sc.htm). These options are for DASC cars, but you could follow the same route with turbocharging.

E-mail NickG and he may be able to help. Unfortunately the market for forced induction tuning on 318's is tiny in comparison to other marques.

Constant

[318.g25]

What Is His Email Address

[KIRASIR]

Nick is one of a VERY FEW people who can reprogram your ECU properly. His contact info is on the website. He quoted me 800USD last year to reprogram my ECU. The price included 4 new injectors with adapter rings.



You might want to check out Technique Tuning (http://www.techniquetuning.com/m44sc.htm). These options are for DASC cars, but you could follow the same route with turbocharging.

E-mail NickG and he may be able to help. Unfortunately the market for forced induction tuning on 318's is tiny in comparison to other marques.

Constant

[Constant]

Nick is one of a VERY FEW people who can reprogram your ECU properly.

He is one of very few people who can, and more importantly, IS WILLING TO reprogram the 318ti's ECU properly.

Serge, do you know at what level the 318ti stock HFM maxes out? I have a T25 from a DSM that's been sitting around for 4 years... :evil:

Constant

[KIRASIR]

Constant,

We had this discussion on the list about a year ago (I can't find the thread now. It's somewhere in the archives). However, I can tell you the following:

With respect to DASC:
If I remember correctly, James Wu maxed out the signal from his HFM last WINTER at 8PSI more than once. And I think at least one more list member has had this problem in the past. I also remember Nick mentioning that with Stage II at 8PSI the HFM is almost at the peak of its capacity (I don't remember the actual numbers).

With respect to T-25:
It is really hard to say. We would have to compare the CFM of T-25 to CFM of the Eaton blower then make a conversion to PSI for T-25 then apply temperature corrections. I've personally had ocasional boost spikes up to 8-9PSI and a couple of long pulls at 7PSI with T-25 without any check engine lights, so you should be safe until at least 7-8PSI.

Don't you also have the diesel manifold sitting around as well? ;)

SL

He is one of very few people who can, and more importantly, IS WILLING TO reprogram the 318ti's ECU properly.

Serge, do you know at what level the 318ti stock HFM maxes out? I have a T25 from a DSM that's been sitting around for 4 years... :evil:

Constant

[318.g25]

So to run 7psi you didn,t need any extra fuel or what

[KIRASIR]

Extra fuel is currently provided by AFPR. I personally wouldn't recommend running any boost pressure over 7-8PSI with AFPR.

Stock programming + AFPR + stock injectors = one really crappy A/F curve.

SL


So to run 7psi you didn,t need any extra fuel or what

[318.g25]

Thanks For The Equation It Actually Helps Believe It Or Not.. Now Does Exhaust Systems Affect Running Conditions At All? I Have A Straigt Pipe In Front And A Supersprint Back Half.

[Constant]

Now Does Exhaust Systems Affect Running Conditions At All? I Have A Straigt Pipe In Front And A Supersprint Back Half.

A freer-flowing exhaust will reduce backpressure in a turbocharged car. This can contribute to earlier spooling time and greater boost.

Constant

[Freedy]

If you are using a turbocharger, you should definitely have a 3-inch diameter turbo-back exhaust. Mk3 Turbo Supras gain 60-70 rwhp from a turbo-back 3inch exhaust. I am not ****ting you, Ive seen the dyno sheets. Thats compared to either a 2.25 or 2.5 inch stock exhaust. Replace everything and mount the o2 sensor to the piping.

[GDB]

If you are using a turbocharger, you should definitely have a 3-inch diameter turbo-back exhaust. Mk3 Turbo Supras gain 60-70 rwhp from a turbo-back 3inch exhaust. I am not ****ting you, Ive seen the dyno sheets. Thats compared to either a 2.25 or 2.5 inch stock exhaust. Replace everything and mount the o2 sensor to the piping.

There is alot of tuning that goes into finding the optimum back pressure. If the pipe is too large then the exhaust will not excape as quickly. 3 inch piping may work great on a 3L Supra running 20ish psi, but on an M24 running 8 psi, it will not be near as effective.

[ZeroG]

"hello i have a 97 with a mosselman turbo (g25)i was wondering if anybody has a air\fuel ratio gauge hooked up and what the reading is and how to fool the computer"

I would suggest that you buy a wideband 02 sensor and guage because thats the easiest way to tune your engine precisely. It will cost around $300-400, but will be well worth it. You can also buy a fuel comtroller that adds or takes out fuel at various RPM points by cutting the voltage of the AFM signal.

Someone else needs to chime in about how the 318 CPU works to measure air flow.

I have the autometer Air/Fuel gauge and it looks really cool when it lites up but other then that it is completely worthless. It cost me like $200.00 including the sender and is not worth the space that it takes up. But if you are into looks its for you. As to measure Air/Fuel use a Lambda Meter or the AEM Wide Bahn Kit.

As for controling fuel you only can do so much with AFPR. The next thing would be bigger injectors and a piggy back kit to run them. I use the Split Second MAF Kit with the ARC II, and it has been working well.

-Chad

[318.g25]

thanks man i've been waiting for some more info.

[needle332rur]

I have a brand new t-25 for my 95 obo1 Ti. This is the steps i was planning on taking to get everything sorted.

-wideband o2 sensor (AEM makes the guage and sensor as a kit for around $200)

-custom made manifold running to the front of the engine so he turbo will sit between the radiator and the timing cover. (better oil drain)

-Front mounted intercooler with 2.25 charge pipes

-slightly larger injector (don't know what stock are so tell me if you do)

-boost sensing rising rate FPR (vortech)

-SMT6 to perfectly control fuel, and also retard the timing uner boost.

w/ this set up run around max 8 psi boost

after i buy forged pistons and maybe megasquirt (well have to see how well the fuel managment works) 15 psi

m42 is one strong motor only problem with it and forced induction is the compression.

[Freedy]

There is alot of tuning that goes into finding the optimum back pressure. If the pipe is too large then the exhaust will not excape as quickly. 3 inch piping may work great on a 3L Supra running 20ish psi, but on an M24 running 8 psi, it will not be near as effective.
Optimum backpressure on a turbo car is no back pressure at all. The pressure difference pre and post turbo is what spools the turbo in the first place, and for this reason it is better to have a very open exhaust after the turbo. Read up on turbos if you dont believe me, but Ive been around them for about 10 years. I know this.

[needle332rur]

less back pressure doesn't mean bigger pipes. a three inch exhaust will not flow as well as a 2.5 in down pipe to a slightly larger mid and even larger end pipe. with this set up the exhaust will pull itself out as is expands. This is mostly used with racecars but if you have a car not completely dependent on boost pressure for power then this will work.

But again if you have a car w/ 7:1 comp and running 30 psi all it is, is a big air pump

[Freedy]

Well, I dunno who the F would make a tapered exhaust for the street, but if it started at 2.5 inches it would still be worse than a full 3 inch exhaust. The backpressure on a full 2.5 inch exhaust is about 2.5 psi. The exhaust backpressure for a full 3 inch exhaust is less than .5 psi. I believe those numbers were from a Turbo Supra exhaust running ~10 psi boost. That means you have to leave about 2 more psi of backpressure pre-turbo in order to create the same boost on both systems. Leaving 2psi more backpressure pre-turbo means your engine is fighting against 2 more psi to get its exhaust out. That means its working harder, and you are not making as much power.