Sunroof Switch in Center Console?

[ergnut]

Has anybody wired a sunroof switch into the center console?

I'm not sure if the switch would work if wired in parallel to the original switch in the headliner (I would leave the original switch installed).

I'm also noted that on a ti the black plastic window switch carriers in the center console have a dummy plug - but the plug is not the same shape as a real switch, and the carrier appears to be incompatible with a second working switch. Has anybody installed a second working switch in one of these carriers? Or do I need to install a different carrier.

Thanks

[1996 328ti]

You mean like this?
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/interior/e36_second_sunroof_switch.html

[ergnut]

That's exactly what I wanted.

[Rhys]

What a good idea, would deffinatley make life easier.
Why on earth didn't BMW put it there in the first place?

[John Firestone]

Ron Stygar and I have both installed "skunk" switches in our cars that further refine the above. With a single switch, we can open and close both windows, open and close the sunroof, or open and close both, with as much one-touch action as they will provide. It is part of the "ZZKE" controller I developed to add that and improve a bunch of other things on our cars. I would be happy to post more information about it if anyone is interested. I also still have the parts to make up a few more controllers and harnesses in case anyone wants to teach their old cars about a dozen new tricks. :) (I am going to be making up some more over the next week, a pair of which will go into Ron's 'ti.)

[ergnut]

John-
I'd like to see how that works. Please share more information.

Thanks

[John Firestone]

Here is a picture of an earlier version of the ZZKE in front of its testbox.

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/zzke+testbox.gif

The current version has a small daughterboard and a second connector so that it can roll down the windows.

And here is a description of the controller and what it can do. (I have posted this elsewhere. The screen shot, however, is new).

The ZZKE (Zusätzliche Zentrale Karosserie-Elektronik / "supplementary central body electronics") is a small (2.5 x 4.1 x 2.3 inch, 64 x 104 x 58 mm) microcontroller that makes the interior and comfort equipment of an E36 3-series more useful, efficient, and convenient. The microcontroller occupies an unused slot in the module rack behind the glove box and taps into the stock wiring and modules through 7-35 wires, depending on its use and the car's existing equipment. The controller can be installed, alone or with a remote control or remote control/alarm system, to add some or all of the following:

Automatic door locking when the engine starts or the car moves, with re-locking after someone opens and closes a door,
Remote control locking that can completely close up the car, or leave just the sunroof tilted open on hot summer days,
Remote control unlocking that can lower the windows and tilt open the sunroof,
An audible oil pressure warning if the oil pressure switch closes, or if it doesn't when it should,
Auxiliary ventilation and heating (park ventilation) under the control of an on-board computer or remote control, with start-up / shut-down flashing and battery discharge protection,
Sunroof and window controls that remain on after you turn off the ignition and open a door, as in Europe,
A six-way, central sunroof and window switch ("skunk" switch) that can open and close the windows, open and close just the sunroof, open and close everything with as much one-touch action as the car will support,
A shift-up warning to avoid hitting the rev-limiter or to help shift at the power maximum, with rpm thresholds tailored to the first four gears,
A data logging mode which outputs the distance travelled, the engine speed, and the road speed, 18.75 times per second, and finally,
A speed limit warning for cars that don't have an on-board computer or a second limit warning for cars that do. You can use the speed limit warning to return the cruise control to the limit when you next drive the car.

For greater reliability and easier troubleshooting, the controller runs continuous self-diagnostics to detect noisy and stuck inputs, along with software and program ROM failures (none so far). By connecting a computer or PDA to a status port, you can log the previously mentioned performance data, watch the controller's inputs and outputs and display faults. Almost any computer with an RS-232 interface and an ANSI terminal program should do, for example, a PC notebook running Hyperterm, as should a PDA with a powered RS-232 interface. Here is a sample status screen for the curious:

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/zzke_palm_screen.gif

If hooking up a computer or PDA is any trouble, you can first plug in an LED to check if there have been any problems.

Arguably, none of the above is new: the controller only executes some old ideas with perhaps a bit more refinement.

[1996 328ti]

Someone had designed a similar product for the Mini.
http://www.gbmini.net/MINIcircuit/index.shtml

John, Thanks for joining us Trunk Impaired folks.

[John Firestone]

Someone had designed a similar product for the Mini.Pretty neat. I like the way he plugs his controller into the car.

John, Thanks for joining us Trunk Impaired folks.You know I came that close to getting a 318ti but ended up with its M44 brother, which is also grossly underpowered – above 190 km/h (118 mph) or thereabouts. :)

[1996 328ti]

The speed warning has me very interested.
Especially after my last encounter with our local revenue agent. ;)

Leave it up to you and Ron to come up with this.
I have one of Ron's 3 hole gauge mounts still sitting in my basement.
One of these years I'll install it. It is a work of art.

[John Firestone]

The speed warning has me very interested.
Especially after my last encounter with our local revenue agent. ;)
We don't have that in Germany: we have radar cameras, instead, and the convenient ticket-by-mail plan. :(

A nice refinement I added to the speed warning is that you can set the cruise control to the limit by holding the stock until you hear a ping. I have mine set at 100 km/h for more relaxed driving of the Landstrasse. I can return to that speed when I leave a village by simply accelerating with the cruise control. That may seem a bit silly but is very nice as you can look at the road the entire time.

[donslade]

That is a great piece of electronics. How much would you sell one for?

Don S.

[John Firestone]

That is a great piece of electronics. How much would you sell one for?$100 for the microcontroller + $150 for a harness + shipping. They take me a little while to make!

[L84THSKY]

So the board is plug and play when installed, or I must program it myself? Also, if you program it, do I have to specify what options my car has prior to purchase?

Where in Germany are you? I spent 10 years there, ex Air Force.


$100 for the microcontroller + $150 for a harness + shipping. They take me a little while to make!

[John Firestone]

I am in Bremerhaven where the Weser River flairs out approaching the North Sea.

A bit over a third of the harness is plug and play, perhaps another quarter (8-9 wires) needs to be spliced into the car's existing harnesses, and the rest involves adding, moving, or removing contacts. I have written a fairly detailed installation guide with instructions for each connection, helpful hints, and wiring diagrams.

I preprogram the controllers with whatever options people want in the car. Actually, I can program two sets of options that you can switch between by flipping a DIP switch, in case there is an option you are not sure about or if you want to have a controller you can use in two different cars. (For example, the ones I am sending to Ron will work in either his z3m coupe or his 318ti.)

[L84THSKY]

Was your location already in your profile, I must have overlooked that?

I know Bremerhaven. When my motorcycle arrived in Germany, back in 1985, I had to take the Duty Train to Bremerhaven to pick it up. Almost killed myself riding the bike back in the pouring rain on the autobahn. Took me over 6 hours to get to Rhein Main AB(Frankfurt).

Sounds like a nice package, I will probably be interested in one.


I am in Bremerhaven where the Weser River flairs out approaching the North Sea.

A bit over a third of the harness is plug and play, perhaps another quarter (8-9 wires) needs to be spliced into the car's existing harnesses, and the rest involves adding, moving, or removing contacts. I have written a fairly detailed installation guide with instructions for each connection, helpful hints, and wiring diagrams.

I preprogram the controllers with whatever options people want in the car. Actually, I can program two sets of options that you can switch between by flipping a DIP switch, in case there is an option you are not sure about or if you want to have a controller you can use in two different cars. (For example, the ones I am sending to Ron will work in either his z3m coupe or his 318ti.)

[John Firestone]

Was your location already in your profile, I must have overlooked that?No worries, you might say I was the one who overlooked it. :rolleyes:

[GDB]

You mean like this?
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/interior/e36_second_sunroof_switch.html


Does anyone know the pn for the button he used for the brake kill switch?

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/e36_sunroof_one_touch_3.gif

[cali-ti]

john, i'm interested in getting a controller/harness. how much do you charge, etc? you guys are awesome for figuring all this out and developing it! i very much second steven's welcome!

[John Firestone]

john, i'm interested in getting a controller/harness. how much do you charge, etc?The same as yesterday – look back a few messages. :)

How good are your electrical skills? I probably wouldn't recommend this as a project if you are not competent with solder and heat shrink, as you have to tap into the car's existing harnesses in a few places. (I have tried to keep that to a minimum.) If you mess those up, fixing things could get expensive!

You don't have to do anything that is hard or unusual, however, and I think you will find the result is well worth the effort.

What kind of alarm/remote control do you have on your car? With a four button / four output unit (lock / unlock / accessory 1 / accessory 2) you can really have some fun.

[cali-ti]

i missed like a whole section of the posts :S sorry :P i can certainly handle soldering/splicing/etc, but i definitely understand why you ask! with the cost, i may put this off to focus more on performance mods first. do you make up batches every so often that i might be able to get one in 6 months to a year?

i have the factory alarm with two-button remote. didn't know another way even available :S i don't have the on-board computer either, which i kind of prefer in terms of having a simple radio volume knob and other things.

thanks again for all your info and work!

[John Firestone]

with the cost, i may put this off to focus more on performance mods first. do you make up batches every so often that i might be able to get one in 6 months to a year?I should be able to put something together whenever you are ready. I am not sure how many more years I will get out of the Windows 95 system I have been using to program the controllers, though I should be able to transfer things to another machine if I have to. If "WI" in your location profile is Wisconsin, it might be the better part of valor to wait for warmer weather, anyway.

i have the factory alarm with two-button remote. didn't know another way even availableI understand there are third-party alarms with get adapter cables that make the job largely plug and play.

i don't have the on-board computer either, which i kind of prefer in terms of having a simple radio volume knob and other things.I think you are missing out on something. I retrofitted my 20-button OBC, which is a fun toy for adults, but made it simple again by programming the stalk to cycle through the few functions that really interest me while the car is moving.

thanks again for all your info and work!You bet!

-John

[cali-ti]

I should be able to put something together whenever you are ready. I am not sure how many more years I will get out of the Windows 95 system I have been using to program the controllers, though I should be able to transfer things to another machine if I have to. If "WI" in your location profile is Wisconsin, it might be the better part of valor to wait for warmer weather, anyway.

yeah, it's wisconsin. soon to be a cold, snowy hell. as opposed to the hot, humid, mosquito infested hell it is in the summer. it appears the pain will be ending in about 7 months.

i'm planning to do a diff swap in january, then probably an x-brace and anti-sways following that. then i may start on some interior mods (reposition cali top switch, vdo gauge cluster, add heat to my seats, armrest with possible cell phone/ipod integration). then maybe i'll be ready for your toy. :)

I understand there are third-party alarms with get adapter cables that make the job largely plug and play.

what would the extra options/buttons on the remote give me?

I think you are missing out on something. I retrofitted my 20-button OBC, which is a fun toy for adults, but made it simple again by programming the stalk to cycle through the few functions that really interest me while the car is moving.

is there a link to an explanation of what all the OBC would give me? i don't really care about all the fuel economy readings and crap. outdoor temp might be handy. how much did this retrofit cost you? doesn't it go where the radio is? i like my old school radio! :P volume should be controlled by a knob that can be adjusted quickly, not damn up/down buttons :P

[GDB]

is there a link to an explanation of what all the OBC would give me? i don't really care about all the fuel economy readings and crap. outdoor temp might be handy. how much did this retrofit cost you? doesn't it go where the radio is? i like my old school radio! :P volume should be controlled by a knob that can be adjusted quickly, not damn up/down buttons :P

my OBC has
gas mileage - tells you the average mileage since the last time you reset it
Range - how far you can go (in miles) til you run out of gas
outside temp - what the outside temp is
clock - what time it is
and it seems like there is something else, but i can't think of it ATM.

[John Firestone]

what would the extra options/buttons on the remote give me?

park ventilation
rolling down the windows
tilting a two-way sunroof or opening a sunroof that only opens and closes.

[cali-ti]

hmmm ... the only option on the OBC that mildy interests me (of what was listed anyway) was the outside temp. that's more of a curiousity than being truly useful (except around freezing temps), imho.

i have the california top so would it work with that like it does with a sunroof? what is "park ventilation"? does it crack the windows or something? and it does this automatically from the remote or your "skunk switch" or both?

[John Firestone]

I have the california top so would it work with that like it does with a sunroof? what is "park ventilation"? does it crack the windows or something? and it does this automatically from the remote or your "skunk switch" or both?If you can comfort close the top from the driver's key and one-touch open it through the roof switch, you should be able to teach your California top the same tricks as a steel sunroof.

The park ventilation feature runs the passenger compartment fan for up to 30 minutes to cool the interior when you press the remote control. That may be redundant if you can peel away much of the roof, if it isn't raining.

The console-mounted skunk switch lets you open or close both windows, the sunroof, or everything at once, by pressing one switch while you are sitting in the car or driving it. That's much faster and easier than finding and pressing three different window and top switches.

[L84THSKY]

I would love to have the 20 Button OBC. My car does not have an OBC installed. Does your daughter card add provisions to install the OBC?

Where would I mount the OBC, and how hard is it to add?



I think you are missing out on something. I retrofitted my 20-button OBC, which is a fun toy for adults, but made it simple again by programming the stalk to cycle through the few functions that really interest me while the car is moving
-John

[Techti]

John, how are you programming these things into the car? I'm reasonably good at programming, soldering, making circuits but I have no idea where to begin reprogramming the cars functions. Is there a website or anything that you can point me to?

[John Firestone]

Eeek. I see I actually have two posts to reply to.

Eric - I didn't mean to be so slow answering. I left for the holidays as you sent off your post and didn't notice it until Techti added his and bumped the thread. Yes, I think it would be a challenge to add a 20-button OBC to a 'ti. I had in mind dropping an OBC into a regular body 3er. I do know a guy, however, who is keen on putting one in his Z3: in the center console, the only place he can find room. I have asked him if the display is viewable from that unusual angle, but I don't think he has had gotten it mounted yet and has had a chance to check.

I suppose you might face a similar challenge finding a good place in a 'ti. If you can, however, I think there is a decent chance it would be almost completely functional. One thing it might not get right would be the remaining RANGE for what's left in the tank as I believe the compact has a smaller gas tank that might throw off its calculations. You probably would also have to code a 20-button OBC in a 318i(s) that already had one. I suspect the MoDiC and DIS tester won't allow coding in a compact as it was never sold with such a monster. But then again it may: it is but software, Sahib. :rolleyes:

I think you might have a little trouble finding an M42/M44 car in the U.S. with a 20-button OBC. That, however, shouldn't stop a true enthusiast. You could either bring an OBC with you and code it in my car the next time you are near Bremerhaven, or better yet, you can drop a six-cylinder engine under the hood, say an S54, and code the OBC in situ. Change the engine so that you can add an OBC, yes, that's the ticket. :)

Techti - [I would also use your name but I don't know it] – I have been pre-programming each ZZKE controller for the car it goes into and for the particular options the owner wants to have. I would have liked to have made the options owner-programmable but unfortunately, by the time I realized we had a nice controller that should go into other cars, the supplier of the microcontroller I was (and am) using lost interest in the model line and never added the EEPROM and extra flash that would have made that possible.

The controller doesn't try to reprogram any of the car's stock controllers. I decided that would be too much trouble. First, I would have had to almost completely reverse-engineer them, warts and all. Then I would have to adapt my solutions and thinking to what was there and then reprogram them with my changes – if that turned out to be possible and if the controllers could accept them.

So instead, I have the ZZKE controller inject, intercept and modify various signals going to the stock control modules to fool them into doing what I want. This has worked out very well.

I have written up some instructions to help in the controller's installation. If you want, I can see if I can dig up something with the latest text and figures.

Did that answer your questions?