Solid flywheel conversion...anyone done it?

[HotChickenStrips]

So after carefully inspection I concluded that my ti shudder/tugging/chattering when taking of in first gear is due to a failing clutch, and those dual mass flywheels are so freakishly expensive, not to mention the added cost of the clutch kit itself, so, has anyone done the conversion to a single mass (solid) flywheel?

Honestly I think it will help in the long run since the solid one is resurfaceable, unline the dual mass.

[anassa]

So after carefully inspection I concluded that my ti shudder/tugging/chattering when taking of in first gear is due to a failing clutch, and those dual mass flywheels are so freakishly expensive, not to mention the added cost of the clutch kit itself, so, has anyone done the conversion to a single mass (solid) flywheel?

Honestly I think it will help in the long run since the solid one is resurfaceable, unline the dual mass.

There are a few ways to do it, the e30 crowd likes to use the single mass m20 flywheels and starter - not too sure what is all required but its a cheaper way to get a single mass lightened flywheel.

Another option is go with one that is made for the m44 but normally those are expensive.

Lastly you can look into just using a m3 clutch kit with a light weight flywheel. Here is link with some info (a search should bring up a good amount of info):

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1862392-M3-Clutch-and-flywheel-install-on-1999-318ti-M44-F1-Racing-stage-2

I hope to do the same thing when my clutch dies.

[jimmypet]

Bumping this thread.

My Ti is just over 170K miles, still on the stock clutch.
Its working fine, but at some point its going to be time to replace it.

My goal is to get a solid, lighter flywheel.

I have read all the pages about the single mass M20 swap, I hate that idea. I don't want to get into swapping ring gears or starter drive pinions. Sounds like a bad recipe of one off parts.

My question is (and I'm new to the E36 world),,, I have read that ALL E36 flywheels bolt up to all E36s from the M44 to the S52.
True?
if so, couldn't we M44 people take advantage of the PLETHORA of lightweight E36 6 cylinder clutch kits out there in both the new and used market?
We would go from a 215mm clutch to a 240mm clutch, which on an M44 would likely outlive the car.

My perfect goal would be in the middle of 215mm and 240mm, and find a lightweight single mass flywheel that accepted a 228mm clutch WITHOUT going through all the silly business of swapping ring gears or starters. It seems from all the reading I have done the only option for 228mm clutch outside of custom is using the M20 part.

I like the Valeo kit option, except the dumbasses made the flywheel almost as heavy as the stock dual mass. Seems silly to put such a load of a flywheel back in.
Since you are in there, why not lighten the load and experience a little zippier response on the M44?

I am betting one can easily switch to the 6 cylinder 240mm parts, with a lightweight flywheel and still be lighter than the Valeo kit at around the same money by using the much larger base of 6 cylinder offerings.

Thoughts, things that have been proven, things that haven't???
I searched around here a lot and over at M42 board but it always seems to deflect to the M20 flywheel which I am not interested in.

Cheers
jimmy p

[spidertri]

I've been told by a few people who've installed the valeo kit that there is ample material that can be removed. Probably wouldn't be too hard to get a machine shop to lighten the included flywheel and rebalance it.

Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

[jimmypet]

I've been told by a few people who've installed the valeo kit that there is ample material that can be removed. Probably wouldn't be too hard to get a machine shop to lighten the included flywheel and rebalance it.

Sent from my XT1056 using Tapatalk

Hey Dave,
Yes I thought about that as well. All the E30 M3 flywheels I have had lightened cost me ~$100 each, so if that pricing is still valid that would put the Valeo kit total (with lightening) around $550 based on prices I have seen casually looking around the usual sources.
It seems that some of the 6 cyl kits with lighter flywheels are under that (and you get the 240mm disk)...

I wish S14 flywheels fit I have so many S14 flywheels and clutch parts here, I could convert for free...

[slade13]

I wonder how light you can shave the Valeo down to. 3-5 lbs should be slightly noticeable.

[spidertri]

Supposedly, the complete valeo kit is 5lbs lighter than stock out of the box. I never got a solid number on how much could be taken off the flywheel just that there was plenty of extra material on it.

Cheapest I've seen the kit was $400. But it would be nice to have a low cost solution without any extra work.

I don't see why you couldn't use a 6 cyl flywheel. The getrag 250 was used on the 323/325 and I'm pretty sure I've read that people have installed m3 clutches on the m44.

Here's a thread
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1862392-M3-Clutch-and-flywheel-install-on-1999-318ti-M44-F1-Racing-stage-2

Seems like it should work no problem, just make sure to orient the clutch disc correctly.

[slade13]

I'll try to remember to weigh the Valeo and the original when I replace mine. I should be doing it around April.

[anassa]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1862392-M3-Clutch-and-flywheel-install-on-1999-318ti-M44-F1-Racing-stage-2

I hope to do the same thing when my clutch dies.



Here's a thread
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1862392-M3-Clutch-and-flywheel-install-on-1999-318ti-M44-F1-Racing-stage-2

Seems like it should work no problem, just make sure to orient the clutch disc correctly.

Link already mentioned above, and reiterated by spidertri , but point being 6cyl clutch/fly will work.

[jimmypet]

Thanks for the solid confirmation.
I think the 6cyl combo is what I will end up doing. Even if the weight is a wash with the Valeo (which I believe it will be well under),,, the added capacity of the 240mm clutch will make it a lifetime unit for an M44.
Most of the Flywheel and clutch kits for the 6ers seem to be between 11 and 14.5lbs on the flywheel.
I'd love to get a confirmed weight on the M44 Valeo.

Thanks for the assist guys. Good info was solidly put down in this thread.
I am hoping to do this job in the fall.
As I said my clutch seems fine, but at 170K, thats a lot of miles.
Its time for it to have a rest haha.

[spidertri]

Hah, sorry Anassa, I totally missed that you posted the same link.

I too am waiting for my clutch to go, it's at 200k now and AFAIK is stock. Engagement is way out on the pedal travel but it doesn't slip. Car is mostly used for track/autox now so it shouldn't be much longer.

[jAladdin]

Alright, so im here just researching with the most little experience possible. I'm ready to replace my clutch, but also gonna replace my flywheel as well. Of course, the dual mass is a lot more expensive, so i came across the Valeo kit. Does that kit really fit right in? Please respond quickly, ill be ready to order the Valeo kit in a few days if its even worth it.

[MINIz guy]

The single mass flywheel Valeo kit will fit.

[slade13]

I'm looking to replace my clutch next saturday. I ride my triumph all year so mt ti sits most of the time. i'll weigh the flywheel when i change it.

[slade13]

Sorry guys. I got up yesterday morning to get some pics of the blood moon and i forgot to grab the scale. The replacement was fairly easy and it was done in 4 hours. The clutch is quiet, nice and smooth. I like my clutch petal to have some 'heavyness' like a performance clutch, put I'll get use to the 'liteness' of this clutch.

[TroyAndEddie]

My Valeo was quiet, too, for the first month. After that, I started to get the chatter when the A/C is on. Nothing detrimental mechanically, just not very BMW-like.

[cool-shi]

I've also fitted M3 240mm lightened flywheel with clutch kit on my M44 with no issues as plan was to fit the DASC till I found out it no longer exists...orz.

was thinking of going for the mid sized 228mm but could not find any lightened flywheels.

some say its better to put a spring loaded disc from the 5 series or M5, I forgot, for better engagement.

I had no issues with engagements so kept using the solid disc type, its been 6 years now without any issues just the chattering noise.

initially I used the M3 slave cylinder but changed to the ti/is slave cylinder for shorter pedal stroke but it sure made it heavy feel...

Here are some of rough numbers I know....may not be correct
M3 original flywheel: 26.5lbs
lightened flywheel: 16lbs
cover: about 12lbs
disc: 2.2 to 2.6lbs

M44 original flywheel: 26.9lbs

[jAladdin]

My Valeo was quiet, too, for the first month. After that, I started to get the chatter when the A/C is on. Nothing detrimental mechanically, just not very BMW-like.

Is the chatter noticeably loud/annoying?

[DunkM]

No, I have an "oem" weight (~20 lbs) single mass flywheel (from Sachs) on my e46, to be able to hear it, the window has to be down with ac on high,even then, there is absolutely no added vibration. Also, if I rev the car to 800 rpm, the sound goes away.

[jAladdin]

Cool, thanks for the info, Dunk

[DunkM]

No problem! So glad I could help! Also, rock auto sells the 228 mm Sachs single mass flywheel kit sold under the 94 325i for less than 400 bucks, at least when I bought it in January!

[monko141]

No problem! So glad I could help! Also, rock auto sells the 228 mm Sachs single mass flywheel kit sold under the 94 325i for less than 400 bucks, at least when I bought it in January!
Just put the same one on my ti last month. Problem with this kit is it does not come with a pilot bearing, the flywheel bolts do not have any thread sealant on them and the the TDC pin locking hole does not line up since it is for a 6 cylinder car.

[DunkM]

That is a good point. The kit does not come with a pilot bearing. But I bet that bearing would be wrong for the 4 cylinder anyway? Mine had blue thread locker on them. But it would be worth while just buying some loctite anyway. And the tdc did work for me since I was putting it into a 6. Either way, it's really cheap comparatively.

[jimmypet]

Good info guys.
I bought a 228mm JB Racing aluminum flywheel on one of the forums, and then I am going to purchase a standard Sachs 228mm clutch to go with it.
On an M44 that will likely last a lifetime.

I have never purchased any clutch kits that came complete with a pilot bearing, so I would usually just buy one anyway as a matter of course.

[DunkM]

Please don't buy a standard dual mass clutch for your jb flywheel. That will cause lots of chatter and vibration. You need to get one designed for a single mass flywheel. It needs to have springs in it.

[jimmypet]

Please don't buy a standard dual mass clutch for your jb flywheel. That will cause lots of chatter and vibration. You need to get one designed for a single mass flywheel. It needs to have springs in it.

No worries the clutch will 100% be for a single mass setup...

[jAladdin]

Awesome info guys:smile:

I went with the valeo kit. Gonna install it on Monday. I'll let you guys know how it went if ya'll want me to. I'm pretty excited. Gonna feel great, haha. I read somewhere that the pilot bearing that came with the valeo kit didn't match up,
so I just went ahead and ordered a genuine BMW bearing for 20, and also threw in a bronze pivot fork.

[thebmwnut]

its been 10 years but i did this swap in a 91 318is M42 motor im guessing it will be the same. If i remember right used a flywheel and clutch from a e30 325, I even took the flywheel and had most of the extra material removed at a machine shop did not have it balanced and never noticed it vibrating or doing anything else strange. It all bolted right up the only challenge i had was the starter. You need a starter from the same as the flywheel problem is it will not bolt up and work so you have to remove the gear from the 325 and but it in you 318 starter i don't remember the exact problem why i could not get it apart but i ended taking it to a shop that rebuilt starters and they exchanged them for me for not much money not sure what it cost but i do know i did not have much to spend at the time.

[TroyAndEddie]

Is the chatter noticeably loud/annoying?

Loud? No. Can you hear it clearly when standing next to the car or sitting inside it? Yes. Annoying? That's subjective. My opinion: it makes noise and the OEM one didn't. I didn't certainly love that it did that, but I should note that I could push in the clutch and the noise would go away.

[jAladdin]

Valeo Kit installed. It's been about a month now, got almost 600 miles on the clutch, feels great. Installation was smooth. I recommend this kit if you're on a budget and don't mind stock.

[jimmypet]

Bumping this thread up to post the results of my install for forum posterity.

I installed an M50 JB Racing single mass aluminum flywheel (JB 520-020-228) on my M44 Ti using a solid hub M50 228mm clutch kit.

Install went smooth except I mentally blew it and ordered stock length flywheel bolts which are grossly too long for a JB Racing aluminum flywheel.
Other than having to go get the right flywheel bolts that it was a pretty easy install.
I took the opportunity to replace every single shifter part in the car starting from the trans backward as well.
I use an old oddball UUC solid stalk race shifter stick in a body mounted solid shifter cup from one of my E30 M3 race cars. Shifter feel is awesome now.

Driving impressions are stellar.
It feels like the car gained 20hp. I know it didn't gain 20 HP,,, but the spin up difference is pretty amazing.
The car feels night and day quicker than it used to and thats with me having 2.79 rear gears.

No noise, no chatter, no shudder and it pulls away from a stop as well or better than it did with the stock heavy ass dual mass setup, idles like stock.
I can't find a downside yet.

Now its got a 228mm 6 cylinder clutch which should last forever, the whole new clutch / flywheel assembly is lighter than just the stock flywheel and the car runs so much better.

Can anyone tell my why Hans and Franz used those heavy ass dual mass clutch setups in these cars?
Much like the COP vs. the stupid M44 coil packs with plug wires,,, the decisions that were made on these cars design confounds me.

So if anyone is contemplating switching to a 228mm JB Racing setup, highly recommended. Really makes the M44 wake up.

[Oli-e36]

Just seen this on eBay, looks like an off the shelf single mass flywheel and clutch kit for an M44, anyone tried it?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/130838845592

[andakn]

I put an s52 stage 3 clutch and lightweight flywheel in my m44

[andakn]

You may get some through out bearing chatter at idle with AC on