performance brakes

[samdemange]

hi there, every time i ll go to track i am burning my oem rotor brakes. (ebc blue pads )
and after 5 or 6 laps my brakes are dead .( pedal go down )
I've had enough of this,so i decide to make my own performance brake because BBK cost a eye ( am not rockfeler )
therefore i bought 2 new e46 tarox JS disc ( 300X22 ) 300€
and 2 used but in good condition rear porsche 986 calipers with half used pads ( brembo ) 255€
after this i made a size with cardboard,and find steel T-square in 10mm
drawing,machining, and drilling them
hot temp painting and mounting
very happy of this upgrad,finally i have some andurance on my brakes.
i can drive 12 laps without problems for unless 600€ ( 825 USD ):smile:
and i can keep my 16 rims
PS: pics are in my gallery

[1996 328ti]

I honestly don't think a BBK was the answer.
Quality track pads, stock vented rotors, good brake fluid and maybe brake cooling is all you need.

With all that mass you are going to have better heat dissipation, sure.
They do look cool though. :)

[samdemange]

they are only 14 mm bigger than my oem rotors ( in diameter ) and same width ( but sloted )
and before i have put EBC blue racing pads and motul RF 600 with goodridge renforced lines on my car ( take off ABS system too)
but ,not enouth endurance with this config for the small track near my home
its why ill do that home made brakes mod

the 2 miles track
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x13m47b_circuit-de-bresse-bmw-e30-325is-23-08-2013_auto

[1996 328ti]

Small tracks give little time to cool so I can see that being a problem.
My tracks have fairly long straightaways.
Motul is good. I like ABS. :)

[samdemange]

i have learned to drive without,and the abs block weighs a dead donkey :biggrin:( not really good for the race )
i also ordered Pagid rs4.4 brake pads for my calipers,because the oem brembo are fine but uses quickly

[bmw2101]

will these fit under 15" wheels?

[samdemange]

will these fit under 15" wheels?

sorry but no,because It only remains 3 mm between the caliper and the interior of the 16" rim

http://img103.xooimage.com/files/e/9/e/pic00347-4567df0.jpg

http://img105.xooimage.com/files/1/5/6/pic00348-4567a89.jpg

[bmw2101]

i have to stay with 15" on my car, i have to use forrest tyres even thoug i rally on tarmac!


shame ... are your disks bigger than ti ones?

[samdemange]

yes, the oem e36 323 ti disc size is 286X22
and mine from e46 size 300X22

[bmw2101]

so maybe with factory default disks??? they will fit???

[DunkM]

Hey guys, if your looking for lighter calipers? Have you considered rx7 calipers? The ones for early 90s ones fit over 280x22 mm discs! :P

[samdemange]

the 286X22 disk fit 15" rims
after like says dunkM u can try with a another calipers
wy not from RX7 (to be seen )

[bmw2101]

if i know porche ones will fit, ill go that way, they are suprisingly good money here, <£200

[samdemange]

mine are rear 986 boxster ( but they are manufactured by brembo)

[bmw2101]

yes i see them on ebay cheep!


i rally my bmw and i foudn last time it cooked the brakes, i run abs though and love it...

[bmw2101]

i didnt do this event but this is the typr of stuff (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7vWjq7jbOE)

[pdxmotorhead]

I have taken care of a lot of track cars, (SCCAstuff) and I really prefer carbotech pads, Over Hawk or EBC. Their compound seems to tolerate heat better and doesn't eat the rotors up as fast.

Air ducting is a big deal to making breaks last in longer races.

[bmw2101]

front bumper dosnt have the ducting in my car atm, i run ds3000 pads ont he front and mintex 1144 ont ehback atm, i was thinking of performance friction pads, i hear these are amazing

[pdxmotorhead]

At the end of the day the actual friction material is made by one of a handful of manufacturers. Several brands use the same material. Performance friction pads have great torque, but the sets I've tried are tough on the rotors, No biggie if you have a economical rotor source. most of the Nascar guys use PF brakes, they are really good for high power heavier cars. Bedding them in correctly is really important.

[bmw2101]

I now have the calipers but people are telling me that a rear caliper won't work on the front of a car !

[samdemange]

let them telling what they want ( did they try ??)
the rear porsche calipers are more than enough for front brake on a light Ti

i did it and it works perfectly :biggrin:

[bmw2101]

Thanks mate ! Pad sizes are about the sand but the pistons in the calipers I think he meant , I don't know if there is some intentional bias or something with cslipers ...


Thanks they will work the. As long as they fit in 15" wheels. !

[samdemange]

16" rims only with 300X22 discs

http://img109.xooimage.com/files/0/6/e/pic00362-4586b8c.jpg

http://img100.xooimage.com/files/a/0/9/pic00336-4545294.jpg

only 3 mm between caliper and rim
http://img105.xooimage.com/files/1/5/6/pic00348-4567a89.jpg
must put 5 mm spacer for my oem rim

[samdemange]

pads for my calipers are pagid RS4.4
E 2406 440 10

http://img106.xooimage.com/files/b/5/4/pic00284-44cb522.jpg

[bmw2101]

just been out looking in the garage, i think there is a way of doing it but as im not an engeneer , i dont know if it can be done. It involves running a 20mm spacer, that gives wheel to caliper space, but its mounting the caliper on the hub that would be the problem, ill find out tomorrow when i collect my engine and drop these off with rae.

[bmw2101]

hmm well, if i had a motorsport wheel on my car, which are generally strong but thinner, maybe id get the calipers under 15" but with the ti wheels, nope.


Is there any other brake upgrade for the ti?

rx7 calipers i hear for the e30

[samdemange]

the simpliest thing u can do with 15 rims is to put calipers and disk ( 286X22 ) from a 325 or 328

[bmw2101]

done that ! and ds3000


i have motorsport abs too, that is priceless...

[bmw2101]

so the porche calipers wont fit under 15" fact...


i now own some e34 540 calipers, they are 300mm disks, and single pots,

has anyone done this mod ?

I want to know aht disks to use


and also is there any standard 15" wheels that bmw made that has more room inside for a caliper thant he standard ti 10 spoke jobbies.


I have to stay with 15" wheels

[samdemange]

less ET rims let u more space for the calipers,maybe the M3 e30 rims ( 7J X15 ET30 ) fit
bmw N: 36 11 2 225 375

[bmw2101]

yes, i see, i was just looking at style 31 e39 wheels, they are 15" and are et20, so if i spaced that out that would mean the wheel would be in the same place if you know what i mean...

center bore adapters would be needed too...

Interesting!

[samdemange]

you can find all BMW rims here

http://www.bmwstylewheels.com/

[bmw2101]

ah LOL that is where i thought of style 31 ! i found that tonight!

i need to know if the bump inside of the wheel is different place to my 10 spoke jobbies...



thankyou mate!

[samdemange]

e34 and e36 rims have 72.6 mm center holes
e39 74.1 mm
you can put aluminium Rings of centring like theses

http://www.autojantes.com/index.php?a=browse&product=accessories&accid=18

[KSKarl]

If you are limited to stock size wheels, you're pretty much limited to stock size rotors. Get good high temperature brake fluid and work on better cooling.
Since I'm not limited that way, the car runs M3 front struts and brakes.

[bmw2101]

Its a rally car, i just want moer, its got 5.0 end ratio and 180 bhp now, its 150 miles a rally in one go, FLAT OUT!


I have ap600 fluid, and ds3000 pads front and 1155 mintex rears, i have abs that is amazing also. Just want more from the brakes, but maybe lightening the car is more the way to go, BUT i WANT bigger brakes LOL!

may have to buy a compotition wheel, which is ok,, but i need to find out which!

[bmw2101]

just having a read about the calipers now and i see this


bmw e36 m3 front = 60mm piston - single pot caliper 315 x 28 vent 28.27cm2
bmw e36 m3 rear = 40mm pistons - single pot caliper 312 x 20 vent 12.56cm2

bmw e36 318ti front = 54mm piston - single pot caliper 286 x 22 vent 22.90cm2
bmw e36 318ti rear = 36mm pistons - single pot caliper 276 x solid 10.17cm2

boxter rear = 28x30 4 pistons 13.21cm2

So how come your car dosnt lock up as soon as look at the barke pedal on the front?

[samdemange]

boxster : 28X2+30x2 = 24.6+28.2 =52.8 cm2 its equal strengh to a 26.4 cm2 single piston caliper

[bmw2101]

right got it,,.

now i found this

CLICK HERE (http://creationsmotorsport.com/product-detail.php?pid=622)

guy recond to get them under 17" you need to maching 12mm of the mounts, i cant workt hat out, as you have them under 16" and 300mm disks. Are the calipers they say about different or something?

[samdemange]

thoses adapters are for boxster S ( or 996 ) calipers they fit 28 mm discs
The part numbers for the calipers are 996.351.425 and 996.351.426.
the mount of mine are like those with 12mm machining and only for 22 mm discs
mine are 996.352.421 and 996.352.422
must do a home made adapter to fit in 16 rim

[bmw2101]

right aht is what i could not figure out !

thanks


do you know if your brakes will fit over these wheels

CLICK HERE (http://www.tvr-cerbera.net/pics/N37BWU.JPG)

i can get these cheep here in 16"

[samdemange]

not easy to say yes when i dont known the ET of these rims
my kosei ( ET 35 ) fit perfectly
but with my OEM style 42 ( ET 46 ) i must put a 12 mm spacer to fit

[bmw2101]

I have now to pick up my bmw hubs with Porsche calipers with 300mm disks, that could have been much bigger, maybe 320 if there was a disk taht was 22mm in that size, and fits under factory default 15" bmw wheels ;)

pics to follow.

[samdemange]

nothing in 320X22
328i e46 300X22
330i e46 325X25

[bmw2101]

yep i had to go for 300mm, but as i thought , E39 wheels are 27mm ofset compaired to the ti standard wheels, and in 15" so ill just go that way. Also, instead of adapter plate, we have cut the lugs off and put a 25mm bar in, and tapped it.

Not got them yet, but cant wait!

[bmw2101]

i dont supose you know btw, is the brake pipe union thread the same on the bmw as the porsche calipers?

[samdemange]

the connection of my renforced goodridge brake line for BMW e36 fit my porsche boxster calipers without problems .
its a M10x1 connection

http://www.origine-pieces-auto.com/2135-2008-thickbox/flexible-de-frein-avant-bmw-e36.jpg

[bmw2101]

thought so thanks, i was sure i tried it age ago and it was the same.

i have goodridge, and banjo joints ont eh calipers, just need some new copper washers!

thanks

[bmw2101]

and finally ;)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10953378_10153295383508132_203854588429097193_n.jpg?oh=40becf1e15eeda41c74dc89cd7655a54&oe=55BE9F46&__gda__=1438044793_67117d1d84bd8304aaa9f8271637ce91


https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11045480_10153332432393132_2516269847948887355_n.jpg?oh=aaec8d03ff4a0f9bb14180ad8ea0253d&oe=55B389A2

[samdemange]

great job :smile:
which discs di u use in fact ? 286 or 300 mm
did u have a pic of ur caliper adapter ?

[bmw2101]

300 but if they did a bigger 22mm disk rae said say 320 would have fitted LOL!

I dotn have apic, but its basically he cut the lugs off, and welded on 1x1" steel and drilled it for the caliper bolts. The hubs are forged not cast so they weld ok.

Cant wait to try them.

What rear brakes do you have ?

[samdemange]

ok, something like this

http://img110.xooimage.com/files/e/a/7/imag2160-4732a9e.jpg

for the rear my 323 ti had 272 mm X 10 OEM disc with blue EBC pads

http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2014/04/21//14042101425515227412165219.jpg

[bmw2101]

right! But my bar is one single peice, it picks up on both mounts, so its what 5" long or so.

I tihnk my rear calipers are too small, i want something liek 38mm pistons, id like vents too but im confused what fits!

[samdemange]

take a look here

http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12852

[bmw2101]

thanks for the link, i had a look but i want to stop with stock rear calipers. I have found out that z4 rear disks fit the compact, and are vented. I have found also that the e46 330d has 42mm pistons in the rear calipers. We have 36mm as stock.

My car atm, seems underbraked on the rear, so im looking at comvertin to these disk and calipers now.


There is a few ways it looks like it maybe done, but i havnt the z4 disks yet to test any of them out for real...Ill keep you posted!"

[bmw2101]

samdemange- can i just check something with you, your car was a 318ti E36, you now have the fronts from the rear of the porsche, the rears are standard ti 36mm calipers, and you are using the standard 318ti master cylinder?


I have the m3 one, with the 3000cc abs

your master is diameter 1 - 23.8 and diameter 2 - 20.64

mine is just 25.4



what is it, when i put my foot on the brake, i get good bite, then the fronts lock up easily. If i turnt he abs on, the abs sorts out the fronts locking but the rear seems not to be doing much. It feels like there isa step in the brake pedal too when the abs is on.

dont supose you have any ideas?

[samdemange]

my car is a 323 ti but the master cylinder is the same as 318 ti and rear break too

i use the oem master cylinder but i have completly removed the ABS systeme bloc

i have invert the exit of the master cylinder ( rear exit to the front line and front exit to the rear line )

and put a manual limiter for the rear because without this I had just a little too many brakes to the rear

with a bigger M C like yours, the pedal lenght is shorter and harder than with a oem
but i dont really know why you dont have enouth break to the rear
which pad did you use ?? mine are pagid rs 4.4 for the front and blue EBC for the rear

[bmw2101]

right i think i have found the problem then, the brakes where mint before i put the abs ont he car, the abs is awesome wont go back but it was never the same under normal braking.


I had a look today my abs 3000cc m3 stuff has a feed and return to the master from the abs unit, i thought these where part of the master cylinder but they feed from teh rezivour, so ive just bought a 323 master from a mate and hopefully fit it this weekend and see how it works.

I have a biest valve inline, its fully open atm and there isnt much going on at the rear.


pads are ds3000 fronts, and mintex 1155 rears.


i awas looking at vented rears too using e46 330d calipers and z4 disks, means cutting the mounts off for the caliper, but i know a few people who have done this to fit ford calipers on the back...


thanks for the advice again!!!

[bmw2101]

fitted the ti master cylinder today, and did it the front rear swap, the brakes felt ok but not right, i swapped it back and they are good. There was air in the rear system, maybe that was part of the problem, i only reolised when i got back and bled the system again.

Brakes seem good, but maybe its the tyres on the car that are the limiting factor of my brakes, they are maxsport RB3 which is a forrest tyre, but good for the roads and the rallying i do.


As i say im going to do a vented disk conversion soon, god the bits just need to make some mounts at work ;)

thanks for your help mate!

[tlh2011]

someone try put the front and rear brake ( caliper and rotors) of m3 in TI´s?

The e36 the front rotor is 315x28 and rear 312x20.
The e46 front rotor 325x28 and rear 328x20

In the front fit the caliper in the same location? Or need a new bracket to put the caliper?
In the rear need make a bracket to adaptation, yes.
The wheels, use 16" or 17" with new rotors?
And the e-brake? Have a put all sistem of the m3´s?

[samdemange]

hi,if u want to put M3 front calipers,u must change the King pin,because they are different with the non M ( caliper fixation is 8 mm larger) and put a spacer for ur rims or install 17 rims
for the rear if u put M3 breaks,u couldnt use ur handbrake,and must do a adapter,its better to put Z3M or Z4 break with 125i rotor,

[tlh2011]

hi,if u want to put M3 front calipers,u must change the King pin,because they are different with the non M ( caliper fixation is 8 mm larger) and put a spacer for ur rims or install 17 rims for the rear if u put M3 breaks,u couldnt use ur handbrake,and must do a adapter,its better to put Z3M or Z4 break with 135i rotor, Samdemange, why its better the z3m or z4 disc brake? dont need adapter the handbrake? the size is the same of M3(312x20) part number the same of z3m#34212227177

[samdemange]

125i disk diameter for the hand brake are plug and play the M version is bigger
but Z3 M Trailing arm with there break is a good solution too if u can found them at a reasonable price

[tlh2011]

125i disk diameter for the hand brake are plug and play the M version is bigger
but Z3 M Trailing arm with there break is a good solution too if u can found them at a reasonable price

humm...ok, I understand now :biggrin:

This rear disc of 125i is the same of 118, 120,128i...and others #34216855005
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part?id=UL91-EUR-07-2007-E88-BMW-125i&mg=34&sg=12&diagId=34_1767&q=34216855005

But here in Brazil it is very difficult to find a z3m trailing arm to buy, has few z3m here :frown: and the parts is hard to find.

And my trailing arm ( 323ti) I can use with disk ( 125i) and use the same hand brake shoes? Is the same diameter?
If positive, I can only change the disk and make adapter to put other caliper and the hand brake dont need nothing :wink:
Is this?

[samdemange]

yes you right ( sorry for my poor english )

323ti disc
http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/07/02//15070208285915227413414368.jpg

118i,125i 128i disc
http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/07/02//15070208285815227413414367.jpg

just have to made adapters for the M3 rear calipers

[tlh2011]

yes you right ( sorry for my poor english )
323ti disc
http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/07/02//15070208285915227413414368.jpg

118i,125i 128i disc
http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/07/02//15070208285815227413414367.jpg
just have to made adapters for the M3 rear calipers

Ok thanks...you are the best!!:biggrin:
My english is not good too :wink:

[bmw2101]

So my car is got, 300mm front disks, 996 calipers, rear vented disks and 330d calipers, ds3000 front pads, and ebc yellow stuff rears.

If i get the brakes hot now, and brake with out my abs on the fronts lock really easily, what mastercylinder should i be using?

My setup fits under 15" wheels too ;)

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13164470_10208847293236971_6259252170915288799_n.jpg?oh=5bb694eba9c1aa4a0d82451dfbb80b39&oe=584DA386

[Whizbang]

are you using the stock ABS? for that matter is the ABS the same between M and non-M models?

[bmw2101]

I think the m and some non m cars are the same, its the remote type 3 channel, not the block type that is fitted to the compact we get here.

But the abs should not affect the biast when its switched off. I have had the m3 master cylinder on the car, and changed to the ti one recently, still not that good.

[Whizbang]

Alot of the e36 rally guys in the US go to manual brakes with dual masters

[bmw2101]

yes i had that system on my Lada, but i want to keep the abs and servo, the abs is with special map, its awesome. Ive retro fitted this system to my car as ive seen how good it is! I rally on tarmac

[samdemange]

i think its just an habit to drive without ABS
i have learned to drive without assistance
just breaking hard at the beginning an do a decreasing pressure on the pedal

[bmw2101]

i mean that my brakes with out the abs, the fronts lock up really easily, like at 50% of what they can do, so its dangerous with out the abs, i just wondered if your setup was any different to mine.

[samdemange]

with my set up its the opposite of you
i have too many brakes on the rear
( oem master cylinder,300X22 tarrox disc,996.352.421 and 996.352.422 for front calipers with Pagid RS14,oem disc and pad and a limiter for the rear )

maybe your ABS bloc cause that distribution issue ( even if its electrically deactivated )

made this for my brake line
http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2014/04/21//14042102060515227412165278.jpg

put a limiter after
http://nsm08.casimages.com/img/2015/06/17//15061705145615227413374854.jpg