Bilstein vs Konis vs KYB shock and i mean all types....

[handballallday]

so like the title says, i'd like to compare and get your personal opinions/advice/experience about these shocks. I plan on getting H&R Sport springs and i've been in the game long enough to know changing the shocks would be best when lowering a car with aftermarket springs.

I recently picked up my 318ti over the weekend and it is my 3rd car so i am very much on a budget. I happen to like H&R springs quite a bit. I am currently looking/shopping on TireRack. Now i know the most common shock/strut to throw on with the H&R springs are Bilstein SPORTS but what about Bilstein HD shocks or Bilstein Touring Class? I'm seeing different types of Bilsteins.

Then there's Koni Sport and Koni STR.T. What do you guys make of those? AND then there's KYB-GR2's.

I currently have on my 91 Miata H&R Race springs with KYB-GR2's. I bought the shocks new when i installed the springs and the drop is 1.5" front and back which is perfect for me. Now i don't daily the Miata. It's a weekend cruiser for me but it is surprisingly comfy for that kind of drop and shock because i know GR2's are STOCK REPLACEMENTS.

my question is.... since i'm on a budget do i REALLY need Bilstein Sports?! I don't race or autocross. Just weekend driving. Nothing crazy. I don't need crazy super duper shocks. Just a low budget shock to accommodate my driving needs.

Basically can i just go with the lower end shock/strut like Bilstein Touring Class, Koni STR.T Street, or even KYB-GR2's? THanks. :rolleyes:

[handballallday]

bump for the suspension heads with experience. Advice and opinions please?! :rolleyes:

[ZEK]

While I'm on stock sport springs I cannot fully answer your question, I have KYB GR2 rears. http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=40609

They are 2.3 Z3 rears from Tirerack. Cost around $37 a piece and were an improvement over stock (though the stock were worn out). Supposedly they are stiffer than OEM.

KYB: Extended Length 21.02
Compressed Length: 13.19
Stroke: 7.83

Bilstein Sport: Extended Length 21
Compressed Length: 13.15

Sorry I'm not much help. Good luck

[handballallday]

bump.... no one has experience and/or can compare any of these shocks? Even on different vehicles? I want to know if i'll bottom out with the lower end shocks/struts paired with the H&R SPORT springs?

[joe1602]

I currently have a set of Koni Orange (non-adjustable) paired with H & R Red (race springs on my 2002 325Ci. It is VERY low to the ground, I do not know the clearance but it is not much. It handles very, very well but it has made the car impractical for city driving. My son had it in Philly for about a month & said if he had to drive it there on a daily basis, we would have to put the stock springs back in due to clearance and ride quality issues. That being said, I drive it on a daily basis in upstate NY and love the way it rides and handles, but it can be a very, very rough ride. I am also in the process of purchasing Koni Yellows (adjustable) for the ti and H & R race springs. This car, however, is our autocross car and I am not concerned at all about ride height or quality. I am thinking these struts & springs will lower the ti as much as the 325. H & R says something like 2.5 inch drop for the front and I think 1.7 for the rears. I am just going from memory on those measurements so they may be off. I do not have any experience with the Bilstein or KYB shocks. I do know that I like the Koni/H&R setup & that's why I am going with it for the ti. Good Luck & hope this helps a little.

[handballallday]

it kinda sorta somewhat helped but not really. Thanks anyway brother. H&R offers Sport and Race springs for our TI's.

H&R Sport springs drop 1.4" front and 1.0" rear
H&R Race springs drop 2.2" front and 1.2" rear

[DerekNH]

it kinda sorta somewhat helped but not really. Thanks anyway brother. H&R offers Sport and Race springs for our TI's.

H&R Sport springs drop 1.4" front and 1.0" rear
H&R Race springs drop 2.2" front and 1.2" rear

http://www.318ti.org/forum/images/garage/attach/1/5/6/7/7/garage_vehicle-761-14224146941.jpg

I currently have Bilstein Sport struts (yellow) and I believe stock M-Tech springs. Offer a comfortable and smooth ride while also offer a small drop. I am looking into buying H&R Sport springs to drop it a bit lower while also keeping the smooth ride that coilovers don't offer. I feel as though H&R Race springs are too aggressive for the street and can affect the toe/camber adjustments to the rear wheels. Sport for me :cool:

[BlackBMWs]

So I run H&R Super Sports (purple) on my 97 with Billy Sports. Nice firm ride that dosent damage your kidneys. High enough for most potholes and speed bumps, but will still destroy the front fascia at a supermarket concrete parking wheel stop.

I have a set of CATuned coilovers destined for the Cali when I get a minute. Not looking for a big drop for drivability purposes, but looking forward to the suspension firmness. I have F/R strut braces and X-braces on both cars.

I'd think you'd bottom out the taller shocks/struts with a set of shorter springs, damaging the mounts and potentially the sheet metal where they attach. 😱


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[spidertri]

Allow me to launch off on the subject and probably offend a bunch of people.

The history of suspensions my car has had (all of which I paid good money for):
-Stock blown active package
-DDM coilovers
-Bilstein sport w/H&R sport
-Koni Yellow w/H&R sport
-Koni Yellow w/H&R sport front TCKline 500lb rear springs
-TC Kline coilovers 400F/600R and then 450F/700R

Don't buy bilstein HDs, they are too long even for stock spring length. Bilstein sports really should be shorter and they are definitely too long for H&R race spring drop. (I never ran it but I think bilstein sport with stock sport springs is a good combo)

I do not like H&R springs, they lower too much without increasing the spring rate enough. So imagine you have bilstein sports (too long and stiff) and H&R springs (way too soft and short). Your suspension will have a tiny, tiny operating window before the struts/shocks run out of travel. The the shock is on the bumpstop. The bilsteins need a longer, softer spring (stock) or a short stiff spring to restrict travel.


The rear springs were terrible on both Bilstein sports and Koni yellows. I was very upset with the ride on Bils sports with H&R sport, not comfortable at all and overly stiff shocks/struts. I'm sure they would be awesome on the racetrack but not fun for me on roads. What made it more ridiculous was that I came from crappy DDM coilovers to bilstein sports and the DDMs were definitely more comfortable.

Koni yellow w/ H&R was slightly better than the bilsteins but the springs still didnt offer enough rate in the rear.

Konis /TCK springs, I started seeing the light. More rear spring rate really kept the rear suspension in check and made the ride better.

TCK coils 400/600 were awesomely comfortable on the street and could be turned up stiff for the autox/track. I gave some local guys rides in my car and I could tell they were being awakened by what the ti could do with a good suspension. TCK with 450/700, the ride is on the harsh side again. 400/600 was the sweet spot for me.


For the OP, koni str.t are basically a yellow that is 1/2~3/4 stiff and non adjustable. It's a good compromise strut for less money. Don't get bilstein sports/HDs. The touring class is a twin tube strut/shock and would probably ride better but I don't know how well they'd pair with H&R sport springs.

[DerekNH]

Allow me to launch off on the subject and probably offend a bunch of people.

The history of suspensions my car has had (all of which I paid good money for):
-Stock blown active package
-DDM coilovers
-Bilstein sport w/H&R sport
-Koni Yellow w/H&R sport
-Koni Yellow w/H&R sport front TCKline 500lb rear springs
-TC Kline coilovers 400F/600R and then 450F/700R

Don't buy bilstein HDs, they are too long even for stock spring length. Bilstein sports really should be shorter and they are definitely too long for H&R race spring drop. (I never ran it but I think bilstein sport with stock sport springs is a good combo)

I do not like H&R springs, they lower too much without increasing the spring rate enough. So imagine you have bilstein sports (too long and stiff) and H&R springs (way too soft and short). Your suspension will have a tiny, tiny operating window before the struts/shocks run out of travel. The the shock is on the bumpstop. The bilsteins need a longer, softer spring (stock) or a short stiff spring to restrict travel.


The rear springs were terrible on both Bilstein sports and Koni yellows. I was very upset with the ride on Bils sports with H&R sport, not comfortable at all and overly stiff shocks/struts. I'm sure they would be awesome on the racetrack but not fun for me on roads. What made it more ridiculous was that I came from crappy DDM coilovers to bilstein sports and the DDMs were definitely more comfortable.

Koni yellow w/ H&R was slightly better than the bilsteins but the springs still didnt offer enough rate in the rear.

Konis /TCK springs, I started seeing the light. More rear spring rate really kept the rear suspension in check and made the ride better.

TCK coils 400/600 were awesomely comfortable on the street and could be turned up stiff for the autox/track. I gave some local guys rides in my car and I could tell they were being awakened by what the ti could do with a good suspension. TCK with 450/700, the ride is on the harsh side again. 400/600 was the sweet spot for me.


For the OP, koni str.t are basically a yellow that is 1/2~3/4 stiff and non adjustable. It's a good compromise strut for less money. Don't get bilstein sports/HDs. The touring class is a twin tube strut/shock and would probably ride better but I don't know how well they'd pair with H&R sport springs.

As stated above I have Bilstein Sport struts and am looking for springs to lower a bit further I am now. Where can I find the TCK springs you mention? I looked everywhere with no luck. Thanks.

[handballallday]

Allow me to launch off on the subject and probably offend a bunch of people.

The history of suspensions my car has had (all of which I paid good money for):
-Stock blown active package
-DDM coilovers
-Bilstein sport w/H&R sport
-Koni Yellow w/H&R sport
-Koni Yellow w/H&R sport front TCKline 500lb rear springs
-TC Kline coilovers 400F/600R and then 450F/700R

Don't buy bilstein HDs, they are too long even for stock spring length. Bilstein sports really should be shorter and they are definitely too long for H&R race spring drop. (I never ran it but I think bilstein sport with stock sport springs is a good combo)

I do not like H&R springs, they lower too much without increasing the spring rate enough. So imagine you have bilstein sports (too long and stiff) and H&R springs (way too soft and short). Your suspension will have a tiny, tiny operating window before the struts/shocks run out of travel. The the shock is on the bumpstop. The bilsteins need a longer, softer spring (stock) or a short stiff spring to restrict travel.


The rear springs were terrible on both Bilstein sports and Koni yellows. I was very upset with the ride on Bils sports with H&R sport, not comfortable at all and overly stiff shocks/struts. I'm sure they would be awesome on the racetrack but not fun for me on roads. What made it more ridiculous was that I came from crappy DDM coilovers to bilstein sports and the DDMs were definitely more comfortable.

Koni yellow w/ H&R was slightly better than the bilsteins but the springs still didnt offer enough rate in the rear.

Konis /TCK springs, I started seeing the light. More rear spring rate really kept the rear suspension in check and made the ride better.

TCK coils 400/600 were awesomely comfortable on the street and could be turned up stiff for the autox/track. I gave some local guys rides in my car and I could tell they were being awakened by what the ti could do with a good suspension. TCK with 450/700, the ride is on the harsh side again. 400/600 was the sweet spot for me.


For the OP, koni str.t are basically a yellow that is 1/2~3/4 stiff and non adjustable. It's a good compromise strut for less money. Don't get bilstein sports/HDs. The touring class is a twin tube strut/shock and would probably ride better but I don't know how well they'd pair with H&R sport springs.

So basically you're saying to stay away from Bilstein right? And that Koni STR.T's may be a decent option for me? I guess since you didn't mention the KYB-GR2's then I shouldn't even consider them huh? :confused:

[BlackBMWs]

What I like about this topic is (like when you ask what is the best wheel or tire) is you are going to get individual preferences on what folks like for their particular application and use.

Take the feedback you get here, consider what you are really going to use the car for and develop a solution that fits that needs and the comfort/performance/looks you are going for.

BTW, I think Dave's setup is great, but mine suits me well. (for now) :cool:

[spidertri]

TCK = TC Kline Racing = http://www.tcklineracing.com/index.cfm?Action=ViewCategory&Category=149

These are coilover springs, since the rear of the ti is separate shock/spring you can put whatever rate/length spring in there that you want and it will work. You can add height adjusters if you want or stack various size spring pads. TCK springs are neat because they have a small side that fits perfectly on the stock rubber pad, the other end is sized for a 60mm spring perch.

Lots of people sell used coilover springs so you don't have to buy new ones and experiment with lots of money to find out what spring rate works best for your needs.

General rule of thumb, 5mm height at the spring = 1/3" change in ride height. Spring pads are OE parts and you can find the part numbers on real oem.


I didn't mention KYBs because I don't have experience with them. I've used Koni str.ts on a VW jetta and found them good value for the money when paired with eibach springs. Feel free to consider any options out there, I'm just offering input on what I've used.

[handballallday]

BlackBMWs and spidertri.... i have to thank you both for your insight and knowledge on the subject. I couldn't be more appreciative.

I'm just looking for a moderate raked drop so i will definitely be going with H&R SPORT springs in the very near future. I don't track or autocross my cars. Just some spirited driving on the weekends. So i don't need any high performance setups when it comes to shocks/struts.

I'm not looking/wanting the cheapest set of shocks/struts but something decent when paired with the H&R Sport springs. Like i said on my first post above.... my 91 Miata has H&R Race springs which drop the car 1.5" all around paired with KYB-GR2's. To me it's dropped perfectly and surprisingly comfy for my needs. With that said, maybe i'll consider between the KYB-GR2's and Koni STR.T's.

here's pics of my Miata dropped on H&R Race springs....



http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af258/handballallday/Miata6_zpsec5b6cd4.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/handballallday/media/Miata6_zpsec5b6cd4.jpg.html) http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af258/handballallday/Miata5_zpsccb25105.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/handballallday/media/Miata5_zpsccb25105.jpg.html) http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af258/handballallday/Chinomeet4_zps63010d69.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/handballallday/media/Chinomeet4_zps63010d69.jpg.html)


and the recently acquired 318ti in stock form....


http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af258/handballallday/318ti%20mine_zpsbx5tjfac.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/handballallday/media/318ti%20mine_zpsbx5tjfac.jpg.html)

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af258/handballallday/318ti%20mine%201_zpsz2nfiijn.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/handballallday/media/318ti%20mine%201_zpsz2nfiijn.jpg.html)

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af258/handballallday/318ti%20mine%202_zpspid8nhma.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/handballallday/media/318ti%20mine%202_zpspid8nhma.jpg.html)

[DerekNH]

I have to second the thanks on the insight. Considering that I am looking for the same sort of setup (spirited driving/ no track use) and my ti had Bilstein Sports when I bought it, I'll go with the H&R Sport springs. May change if a racetrack is built near me :biggrin:

[BlackBMWs]

Thanks guys, although Dave and Joe have way more track and AutoX experience than I do.



Since you are looking for rake, I can share a couple of examples of setups. I don't think my examples show much rake tho... :rolleyes:



97 Sport Slicktop - Stock MTech suspension - 15" wheels
http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp105/BlackBMWs/BMW%20318ti/B5176851-B5F2-4674-BE31-49435E491F6F_zpsws9wrrpd.jpg (http://s402.photobucket.com/user/BlackBMWs/media/BMW%20318ti/B5176851-B5F2-4674-BE31-49435E491F6F_zpsws9wrrpd.jpg.html)



98 Sport Cali - Bilstein non-sport on MTech springs - 17" wheels (CATuned coilovers destined for this car)

http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp105/BlackBMWs/BMW%20318ti/A06521FC-D3BD-4286-901D-367565C5AD49_zpst04pisrl.jpg (http://s402.photobucket.com/user/BlackBMWs/media/BMW%20318ti/A06521FC-D3BD-4286-901D-367565C5AD49_zpst04pisrl.jpg.html)



95 Active (Sport wanna be) - Stock Active suspension - 16" wheels

http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp105/BlackBMWs/BMW%20318ti/2329D49E-373B-4FA9-992B-D72A5BCA08BB_zps2tdzwmkd.jpg (http://s402.photobucket.com/user/BlackBMWs/media/BMW%20318ti/2329D49E-373B-4FA9-992B-D72A5BCA08BB_zps2tdzwmkd.jpg.html)



97 Sport - Bilstein Sports on H&R Super Sports - 17" wheels

http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp105/BlackBMWs/BMW%20318ti/1FE977DD-16DE-422B-97AC-10B2A49D876C_zpscabfaty7.jpg (http://s402.photobucket.com/user/BlackBMWs/media/BMW%20318ti/1FE977DD-16DE-422B-97AC-10B2A49D876C_zpscabfaty7.jpg.html)



95 Active - Air suspension - Stealth 20" wheels

http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp105/BlackBMWs/BMW%20318ti/F285D5DD-65AF-4A3D-ABE0-614CD36DF326_zpsutlewbfc.jpg (http://s402.photobucket.com/user/BlackBMWs/media/BMW%20318ti/F285D5DD-65AF-4A3D-ABE0-614CD36DF326_zpsutlewbfc.jpg.html)



Cheers! :cool:

[handballallday]

i still can't get over the fact that you have such a nice collection of ti's. I am jelly.

what exactly are H&R Super Sports? The purple ones? Are they specifically meant for 318ti's and what's the drop on them? I don't see them for 318ti's on TireRack and the H&R site. :confused:

[BlackBMWs]

Thanks! Purple ones


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[handballallday]

Thanks! Purple ones

where'd you get them from? And what's the drop on them? Looks low. :rolleyes:

[BlackBMWs]

Speed bumps think so too.... 😵. From a member in SoCal as a bundle. Never measured before install.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DerekNH]

Has anyone here tried Bavarian Autosport springs (red)?

[M-technik-3]

I have to second the thanks on the insight. Considering that I am looking for the same sort of setup (spirited driving/ no track use) and my ti had Bilstein Sports when I bought it, I'll go with the H&R Sport springs. May change if a racetrack is built near me :biggrin:

You have 5 tracks within 4 hours of NH

The Newly finished Palmer Motorsports in Palmer Mass, NHIS just east of Concord where NasCar races, the new track in Tamworth NH
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/s960x960/10974261_433498426806942_1524425038611981213_o.jpg
and then you have Thompson Motorsports in Thompson CT and the you have Lime Rock in CT.

N.E has a bunch going for it now in Motorsports. Albany has their Safety Track and Monticello which is private but they on occasion have an open day

[BlackBMWs]

Nice! Love to be there!

Out here is Laguna Seca, Thunderhill and Sonoma Raceway

[DerekNH]

Oh wow I had no idea. Once the car is in good shape I'll have to see what I can get it into. Thank you!

[handballallday]

welcome T.I & Tiny....


http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af258/handballallday/TI%20amp%20Tiny_zpsorc4hywt.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/handballallday/media/TI%20amp%20Tiny_zpsorc4hywt.jpg.html)

http://i1013.photobucket.com/albums/af258/handballallday/TI%20amp%20Tiny%201_zpseh033hsm.jpg (http://s1013.photobucket.com/user/handballallday/media/TI%20amp%20Tiny%201_zpseh033hsm.jpg.html)

[Strawman]

I will start out by saying congratulations -- this is a third car for you, so you can risk experimentation and possible down-time while you sort things out. Although I daily drive my 318ti, I have a couple of other cars that I can use when I change things on my 'ti from time to time.

I started with a 170k car ($1,600) that badly needed a new driveshaft, had a ton of engine oil leaks, and the cooling system was suspect. The brakes were badly worn, as was the suspension. So I took care of the maintenance items, and then I updated the suspension as follows:

* Koni Sports;
* H&R Sports;
* Powerflex poly bushings in the rear suspension, sway bars & rear diff;
* Meyle HD front lower control arms, swaybar links & upper strut mounts (front & rear);
* OEM tie-rods/ends, front lower control mounts & engine/trans mounts;
* front upper strut mount reinforcement plates;
* refreshed front brakes from a '97 328i (more about that later);
* OEM rubber brake lines; and
* a used factory lower front X-brace.

The car handled great with the Konis set at one full turn off full soft all 'round.

Then I swapped in an M52 and ZF trans from the aforementioned '97 328i, as well as a 3.25 LSD from an E28 (along with rebuilt NAPA Auto Parts E30 axles). I swapped-in an Ebay cro-mo lightened flywheel and Stage II clutch, along with all-new OEM shifter bushings. I also installed a new Behr 6-cylinder cooling system, along with a manual fan delete setup. I welded in a front cross-member reinforcement kit while the engine was out, and purchased new Febi engine mounts. The car instantly woke up and pulls like a freight train. However, the extra weight of the 6-cylinder engine made the front end ride too low; I'd scrape every speed-bump in town and had to approach driveway entrances like a stanced Honduh. Unacceptable.

So I bought a full set of used Eibach springs on Craigslist for $50, and swapped the front springs into my car. This helped raise the front to something more respectable and helped make the car more predictable on the entrance to turns. I also bought a set of used-n-fat adjustable Racing Dynamics front/rear say bars, and set 'em up at medium stiffness in front and full soft in the rear. I still run the Konis at 1 turn off full soft for the street. I also run a square set of Dunlop Direzza Sport II 245/45-16 tires on BMW Style 45s to complete the sleeper/rat-rod look. I run the stock exhaust cats & piping through the OEM resonators, and cut-off the pipes to fit a 1-into-2 Magnaflow flipped around to offer a single outlet -- kinda loud but totally sleeper. The engine is otherwise stock, and has been BAR-refereed to be CA smog legal.

The car is absolutely neutral in spirited canyon driving, and it is comfortable enough for me to use daily. However, the muffler drones a bit on drives of two hours or more. My co-workers seem to wince when we use my car for trips longer than 10 miles, but I chalk that up to their being weenies.

I turn up the front struts to 2 full turns and bump up the tires by 3 psi on the track. Three weeks ago, I ran the car at Buttonwillow Raceway, and was never passed although I passed at least 30 cars (F-Type Jag twice, an Astin Martin, an E92 M3, countless Mustangs, etc.) in the Beginner class. To be fair, I've run countless autocrosses, a dozen track days and have seven 24 Hours of Lemons races in a ****box Opel GT under my belt, but I signed up in the Beginner class to hang out with my lovely wife in her '99 Z3M Roadster (passed her once, too!). She's hooked and wants to do another :_peace:

The car is not a cherry: the clear-coat is peeling, the interior is mismatched, one mirror body is cracked, the window tint job is Mickey Mouse, the front bumper cover is poorly repaired, and there's a hefty dent on the right front fender and door from my daughter's friend backing into it in our driveway. But it was glorious shaming cars worth umpteen times more than mine on the track!

I run Bilstein Sports in the Z3M, and they work great on the stock springs. I also run Bilstein Sports on my WRX-swapped Porsche 914 track-rat. I ran KYBs ("Kill Your Back") in my old SCCA CSP class MR2 before finally switching to Koni adjustables. I gotta say I like the adjustable nature of the Konis in my 'ti. In fact, on the way home from work this evening I was reminded by the harsher jounce that I never reset the settings on the front struts after my latest track day -- so I took that next turn in 3rd gear instead of 2nd. "You're welcome," said my my butt-dyno...

[handballallday]

Haha thank you for that short story and input. After doing further research last night reading from other forums I decided I will go with the Koni STR.T shocks/struts paired with H&R Sport springs.

I don't need adjustability for something I'm just going to lower and drive around on the weekends. I was really considering the GR2's which are "Premium" but for the same price the STR.T's are "Premium, Performance street, Autocross/Track" which just makes more sense for me to go with.

[MINIz guy]

Has anyone here tried Bavarian Autosport springs (red)?

I run Bilstein Sports with Bavarian Autosport springs. Here is my review of them. http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=39731

I don't want to say they are too soft for autox yet. I will be installing an LSD in my car to finish my prep, and then give a final review on the suspension. Driving around St. Louis city streets, the ride is definitely firm and rough for the passengers in the back. The rear definitely bounces around on bumps but the front is well damped, similar to spidertri's experience with H&R Sport springs on the same dampers.