I Smoke!

[robcarync]

the other day i was driving down the road...and i noticed some guy pointing at my wheels. wow...so i dont know what to think...i pull over and notice a really foul odor coming from my front right wheel. there was also smoke pouring out of the wheel....

the smoke came from behind the rim...almost like it is from the brakes...

i took of the tire and rim when i got home and checked out the brake pads/rotors...everything seemed fine...the pads werent rubbing against the rotor or anything...so i dont know what could cause random smmoke to pour out of the brake area...

it happened again today when i drove home from school so i dont think it was a random one time occurence

so anyone got any ideas as to what causes this

[madfronter]

maybe some packing greese flew off of a rig and got in your brake or rotor.
So when you are using the brakes a lot and they get hot it makes the greese smoke.

Though I really don't know.

[robcarync]

that is about what my dad said...he said something probably just got on the rotor and it is burning it off...

now that i think of it...when i took the wheel off yesterday...i was wearing some work gloves that i had used to fix my window when it fell in...and i remember a few spots of grease had gotton on the rotor...do you think it was just burning the grease off?

that doesnt really explain why it happened the first time though...because the first time it happened there wasnt anything on it that i know of...

[bmw///m3///]

what does it smell like?? :? grease/metal/fluid/brakepad, etc.

[robcarync]

i couldnt say...but it smells bad....something surely is burning...

also...i noticed that i have a lot of tread worn off on the outer edge of the tire...but only on that tire...maybe i just take super hard left turns...but i found that odd...though it doesnt seem like it would be related to the smoke

but i dont know what burning grease/metal/fluid/brakepad smells like...but i know something is burning...

after the first time it happened, i drove home and took the tire off and checked out the brakes...the pads werent running on the rotor or anything...and im no mechanic so thats about all i knew to look for...and i know for a fact there is grease on the rotor now because it came off of my gloves when i spun the rotor around to look for pad scrapage. if it is just grease burning off, that doesnt explain how it happened the first time...

surely there cant many things causing this...burning grease? burning brake fluid? burning _____...

i havent a clue...but it is just frusterating...i love the car but everytime something breaks...i fix it...and somehting else breaks...just ONCE id like to have a semi long period of time where nothing breaks on me!

consumer reports even reccomended the car...but it looks like i got a bad one...

[1996 328ti]

Rubber smell? Maybe the plastic guide pin covers are burned.

[robcarync]

what are the plastic guide pin covers?

it seemed kinda like a burned rubber smell...

are those the rubber plug things that go into the hole that has the allen bolts that hold the calipers/pads together around the rotor?

[aceyx]

perhaps you had gotten something caught in your wheel well, rubbing up against the tire. check out the plastics and the flare for imperfections.

over the years i've learned to differentiate burned rubber, clutch and brake pads. it's not a skill i'm particularly proud of.

[robcarync]

yeah i dont know what everything smells like...i want to get my dad to smell it the next time its smoking because he knows more about automotive stuff...

ill probably take another look tomorrow...

right now its 2:10am so im headed to sleep

[1996 328ti]

what are the plastic guide pin covers?

it seemed kinda like a burned rubber smell...

are those the rubber plug things that go into the hole that has the allen bolts that hold the calipers/pads together around the rotor?
There is the plastic cap as well as the rubber boot to protect the guide pin from dirt. The brake piston also uses rubber o-rings.

[robcarync]

consensus in from my father...burning brake fluid....

we put together our plan....take tire off...look at brake lines and see if its leaking anywhere!

yes!

any suggestions on what to do about burning brake fluid?

[aceyx]

clean off anything that's left behind. that stuff is way caustic (eats paint, deteriorates rubber, etc).

and tighten the bleed screw or wherever it's leaking from. you may have to top off or bleed.

[robcarync]

alright...ive never bled the TI brakes but i have bled brakes on my sisters car (altima)...i think my pops and i can manage to bleed the TI brakes...but first thing first is wait for it to quit being snowy/icy/freeezing cold

then we will take the wheel off and look for leaks!

[1996 328ti]

consensus in from my father...burning brake fluid....

we put together our plan....take tire off...look at brake lines and see if its leaking anywhere!

yes!

any suggestions on what to do about burning brake fluid?
If it is leaking you need to rebuild your calipers.

[bimmerboi318]

I attempted to rebuild the calipers on my ti. It's not a hard task to do, but it takes alot of patience. Advance auto gave me the wrong seal kit so all I ended up doing was cleaning the bore and reinstalling the piston. My seals were still good and the only reason my caliper was sticking was because of rust built up on the caliper where the pads slide. It might be easier to get remanufactured calipers. Although I think the seals to do both front calipers were like 8 dollars.

[1996 328ti]

If you ever go with remanufactured calipers, you might as well upgrade to vented rotors.

[robcarync]

alright...so rebuilding calipers...so that isnt too difficult? i dont know how to do that though...does anyone know wherei can find a writeup on it?

what is a remanufactured caliper? how much does that cost...and vented rotors would be nice but seeing as im poor and everything...im trying to fix it with minimum cost...

[motorsport]

brakes wouldnt really smoke, and you would notice that wheel pulling towards that side if it were stuck pads so you can rule that out.

[robcarync]

yeah thats what i figured...im pretty sure its burning brake fluid...

[bmw///m3///]

you should be able to find used for dirt cheap...

[clex2]

I had a similar experience with my driver side front wheel. There was a burning smell and light smoke, but it happening only once in a while for a year or so. I had my mechanic check it out when it got bad and was happening more often than not and he put an infrared pyrometer over the brake disc and it was hundreds of degres hotter than the opposite side. Turns out it was a sticking caliper that took a while to go bad. The tire also had a bit of cupping from the drag the caliper was producing. My solution on my 95 was to upgrade to vented rotors and calipers off a Z3 (any e36 model). Maybe this is your problem. Something to keep in mind.

[robcarync]

interesting...

my tire started smoking last thursday....smoked again friday...and hast smoked since then...

meanwhile...my passenger window fell in a while ago...and the regulator is bent way out of shape...to the point where im not going to fool with it anymore...i think im about to take it to a shop for a window fix...and ask them to check out the wheel too...

im hoping eventually i will just get to the point where the car runs out of things to break on me...

my steering wheel also tends to vibrate kinda violently when i drive...which kinda made me think it was a sticking pad/caliper... maybe stick enough to vibrate the wheel but not enough to drastically pull the vehicle...if a pad/caliper was stuck like above...could that cause a shaking steering wheel?

[robcarync]

i took it to the shop today and they called and said i need new pads, new rotors, and a new caliper on my front right wheel.

they want 900 dollars...i think that is kinda ridiculous...

i could understand maybe a new caliper but i just replaced the pads a few months ago and i took the wheel off last week and didnt notice anything wrong with the rotor...no warpage or anything...and it look pretty thick...

i think they are trying to rip me off...

[aceyx]

unless there's something terribly wrong with the caliper you can rebuild it for about $20 and an hour of your time.

when you put the wheel back on did you torque down the bolts correctly? annoying as it is, over-torquing the bolts on this car can warp rotors.


also, get a second opinion.

[clex2]

Well, $900 is alot of money when you consider that I got a used set of calipers (great condition), new brembo rotors, and pagid pads all for $250 from Zionsville. I did the work myself, so no labor. My car was is a '95 that had solid front rotors, so I was able to upgrade to the vented rotors and fix that nasty stuck caliper at the same time. I would not pay $900 for what they are doing. Your caliper may be able to be rebuilt, but you wont really know till you see the piston. A rebuild kit consists of a few rubber o rings and shouldn't costs more than $20-$30 per caliper, although it seems like a lot of $ for pieces of rubber. I guess it all comes down to how DIY you are. There are lots of writeups on how to do this stuff (ie, bimmerforums)

[robcarync]

yeah my dad heard 900 bucks and was like...uhhh F that and i drove it back home...but the shop didnt charge any fee since they didnt fix it.

apparently the mechanic guy said that by the piston (i think), there was some rough metal that causes the pads to stay locked up. so i guess when you push the brake pedal, the pads squeeze, but they cant be let back away from the rotor cause the rough metal causes the piston to stick to the rough metal. it isnt totally locked up but he said that it could get locked up any time and not to drive it.

he called this patch of rough metal a "burr" and said it couldnt be rebuilt because of this.

i asked why it was so expensive and he said it was 350 just for one caliper...i called auto zone and they said 80 bucks for a caliper. im going to auto zone tomorrow to order rotors, calipers, and pads for both of my front wheels.

i chekced bavauto and they didnt have any calipers...all they had were big brake kits which i cant afford right now

is there something wrong with parts from auto zone/pep boys/advance auto? was the mechanic wanting to pay for a caliper made of magical gold or something? why are the prices so different?!

[aceyx]

$350 is probably from bmw. i'd find out the brand of the autozone stuff; if beck-arnley is their distributor for european parts it should be okay.

also, give ebay a shot. i picked up a full set of calipers for $50. just waiting for the bitter cold to end (and for insurance to replace my tools) to do the upgrade.

[1996 328ti]

I noticed in some catalog that calipers for solid rotors are more money than the vented ones.

[clex2]

I would try Zionsville

http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/store/shop.mv?

They are a repuatble used BMW part source.

[bimmerboi318]

The dealer is probably saying you need the pads and rotors as well as a caliper is to cover their ass. You may be able to get away with just a caliper (if you need it)...but if the rotor is warped (which is very hard to tell by looking at it), both should be replaced. And if new rotors are put on, it's comon practice to replace the pads as well. 900 sounds a litte (well, very) steep. We charge 1.5 hours for a front brake job, I would figure 400 bucks or so for the job. Maybe a little more since you have to replace the caliper and bleed the brakes.

[aceyx]

you can have your rotors tested for warpage by most shops; they basically spin it with a micrometer rubbing up against it. shouldn't cost a thing.

if they say they can grind it, politely refuse. bmw rotors are cheap enough that it's worth it just to get new ones.

also, i always get my rotors from the dealer. why? they're warrantied. i actually ran through two sets in 3 months diagnosing a steering problem, and while not exactly happy about it, they did replace them free of charge.

yay.

[robcarync]

well im going to go ahead and get new rotors on because last summer when i replaced the pads, i didnt replace the rotors when i probably should have.

auto zone quoted me:

22 bucks for pads
70 bucks for calipers (80 dollar core charge)
50 bucks for rotors

they also said they could have them shipped by the weekend...which is nice since my parents wont let me drive the car until i fix it.

my pops had baught pads/rotors and other auto parts from auto zone before for his other cars and havent had a problem so im just gonna see how auto zone works out...ill let you guys know how it goes later!

[robcarync]

i ordered from auto zone...i forgot what brand he said they were but i dont think it was the one you mentioned. i questioned him and made sure they were built to exact OEM specifications and such...and the rotors have a 2 year warranty and a lifetime warranty on the calipers.

i actually got both calipers already loaded with brake pads for 150...which is about 10 bucks cheaper.

they should be here friday and i can get them put on sunday!

now for a random question...i think painted calipers looks pretty good...and since im putting new calipers on, they would be new and clean, and easy to paint before i put them on on sunday...so does anyone have any information regarding painting calipers? im not sure if id actually do it but i thought it was a nice idea to consider...

[aceyx]

your parents are smart to not let you drive it. no stop, no go.

beck-arnley is like european NAPA. if it's good enough for the autobahn (TUV), it's good enough for me.

that said, i put some serious junk pads on once, and will never do it again (this was the pre-inspection hullaballoo mentioned in an exhaust thread). the metal clips that fit into the piston started breaking, and they didn't so much break in as glaze and cause my rotors to warp. i have no idea about the stuff you ordered but just a warning.

pick up brake fluid while you're there, and flush the system while the car is on stands.

people have mentioned powdercoating is a much better route.

[motorsport]

if the brake fluid isnt too dirty you dont need to flush it, but you do need to bleed the air out of the calipers

[aceyx]

i generally err on the side of caution. if his pistons were jacked up, the fluid in the lines either took on some water, got crap in it, or were subject to conditions outside of its temperature range (or within, but for a prolonged period at a high point).

if you don't know when the fluid was last changed, do it. if you do, and it was within the past two years, a round of applause for rob.

[robcarync]

actually i took it into an inspection II service last summer and they gave me a list of like 8 things that needed done...and flushing the brakes is the last thing on the list and the only thing i havent got done yet...

i understand caution about these parts...but basically my parents have already spent 3,000 dollars on repairs the last two years...and they werent about to pay more money for bmw or "name" brand parts...and well i dont have the money to pay for the parts so i will take what my pops will let me have.

so yes sunday i will replace rotors....calipers...pads...bleed/flush brakes

never done this before (except change pads)...anyone got an idea how long replacing rotors/pads/calipers will take on two wheels? and how long a brake flush will take?

[robcarync]

ok so i started today after school...

got tire off fine woo...took out guide bolts....the part of the caliper that holds the pads came off...but im having trouble getting the other part of the caliper off the rotor....it has two 5/8 bolts in the back that hold it to the rotor...and they will not come off for the love of god....

so does anyone have any idea how to get it off! ive drenched it in brake cleaner and lube and nothing seems to want to get it off! i need one of those hardcore wrenches that go "BZZZ BZZZZ" like mechanics have!

[1996 328ti]

Those are always a bitch. I busted some cheap sockets on those.
My method is let it soak with penetrating oil. Then I use a 1/2 breaker bar with a pipe on the end for some extra leverage. I use the handle from my aluminum jack as the pipe.

[robcarync]

not sure what a 1/2 breaker bar is...but my pops suggested something simliar...using the 5/8 inch wrench with a pipe on the end for extra leverage...

im busy tomorrow all day but ill pass the information along to my pops who said hed try it...thanks for the info!

[motorsport]

get a 5/8'' wrench and hit it with a hammer that's what i do.

[robcarync]

i did...it didnt work...lol

but i was busy all day today...and i came home and found out my pops enlisted the help of our neighbor scott across the street...and they already got it off and replaced rotors/pads/calipers on both front wheels...

that was a pleasant suprise because i have to work tomorrow so i wouldnt have been able to fix it tomorrow....

ok i declare this thread closed now since im done and have fixed the problem of smoke...

thanks for the help guys!

[motorsport]

that was a rough one