Cheesy Brakes..........

[L84THSKY]

I often notice when stopped in traffic, the type of rear brakes in other cars. In this day and age, they are still putting drum brakes in cars, and I'm not talking cheap Korean ones either. Many US made cars, are still using them. How cheap can they get. I remember laughing at this late 90's Mustang, because it came stock with drum brakes.

My Scirocco had rear disk, they put them in back in 1986. Bottom line is, these companies are just cheap. Anyone else notice this?

[ClubSport]

Yup, saw a 99 durango with drums in the back.

[barische]

1997 pontiac firebird with drums. also the car is like 3.8 liter v6 engine producing 200 horsepower. = PIECE OF TOTAL CRAP. and my friends bird is so heavy around 4400 pounds, i was able beat his car, all i had was just intake.

[DerbyCity]

Hard to believe. Then they wonder why there are so many accidents.

[BMWDRIFTER]

My hometown Police department has had two serious head-on accidents in the last year. One was right in front of my house. Both were chasing people running from them, both were passing cars in the oppisite lane when they crashed. the second wreck the second idiot slammed into the back of the first idiot. In both cases there were skid marks from just the front tires over 200' long before impact. When I asked why the ABS was not working they said they disable it becuase they can stop faster without it. Just proves how stupid they are to disable one of the best saftey features on any car.

[bmw///m3///]

drum brakes are actually stronger than disk . The problems with them is that they dont decipate heat very well. front brakes do most the work so drums in back is "sufficiant"
I ask my dad that same questions years ago. german cars are the shiznit. :_paper:

[1996 328ti]

drum brakes are actually stronger than disk . The problems with them is that they dont decipate heat very well. front brakes do most the work so drums in back is "sufficiant"
I ask my dad that same questions years ago. german cars are the shiznit. :_paper:There are euro-spec ti's that have rear drums.

Just proves how stupid they are to disable one of the best saftey features on any car.If you know how to brake well you can stop faster without ABS.
ABS is generally good but there are times when you want to lock your wheels.

[CirrusSR22]

If you know how to brake well you can stop faster without ABS.
ABS is generally good but there are times when you want to lock your wheels.

Although, the number of people that know how to brake well without ABS is probably 5% of the population. Now bring into a panic/accident situation and maybe 1% of the population will do it properly.

I love ABS. Stomping and steering is about as instincual as you can get.

[1996 328ti]

I agree. For most people ABS is great. That is if people know to stand on the brakes and steer and not pump like the old days.

[ChrisS]

<<If you know how to brake well you can stop faster without ABS.
ABS is generally good but there are times when you want to lock your wheels.>>

I'm finding this hard to believe. When would locking your wheels slow you down better than letting the ABS do the work?

[ChrisS]

Ok, I suppose for Jeeps in loose gravel and maybe cars with loose snow? The plow effect...

[2ndBimmer]

The quickest way to stop a car is to hold the brakes just before the point of locking up. (this according to BMW driving intructors)
The problem is it is an extremely fine line between near lock and total skid, one i was not able to master.

[1996 328ti]

Yes. That is called threshold braking. It comes with practice. I rarely get into my ABS at the track.

[ChrisS]

That's exactly what ABS does... threshold braking. And it does it a whole lot better than you and I could.

[GDB]

That's exactly what ABS does... threshold braking. And it does it a whole lot better than you and I could.

It's still annoying IMO. I know it stops better but I hate the feel when ABS kicks in. BMW is less obtrussive than most cars, but I still don't like the way it feels. I guess I just need to get used to it.

[1996 328ti]

That's exactly what ABS does... threshold braking. And it does it a whole lot better than you and I could.
There are times when ABS is bad like in a spin. You can stop faster if your brakes where locked. At the track I rarely get into the ABS so I would think I'm at about threshold. Hearing the ABS scares me because I am no longer in control.

[ChrisS]

My first thought is to agree with you on the spinning scenario, but I think it would be maybe more correct to say that a car sliding sideways might be better off without ABS. If we imagine the various directional forces on the car during a 360 deg spin, at the times when the car is facing forward and facing backwards to the direction of travel, I would think ABS would be better, and would probably keep the car in the forward/backward position longer (and therefore more chances of slowing the car with 12pumps/second ABS action) than one without. During the sideways 90/270deg position then maybe a full lock would be better... I haven't read any reports, but I'd be interested to see. Actually, it makes me wonder if the ABS would even try to pump the brakes if the car is travelling at exactly 90/270 degrees to the direction of travel; the ABS unit would probably think the car is stationary.

If you rarely get the ABS working at the track, then I would think you're not quite at the threshold. The definition of threshold is that state of brake application that causes the wheels to reach the limit of adhesion, which is also just shy of the lower bound trigger for the ABS to start working. The way to test whether you're at threshold would be to enter the same braking zone next lap and press the brake slightly more. If you can use that braking force without tripping the ABS, then you're closer but still not at the threshold yet. Repeat until the ABS operates, and then you know the threshold is met. Regardless, if you want to go faster, I would suggest incorporating the advantage that ABS affords into your braking zones at the track. I can think of more than a few races I'd have won and avoided two run-ins with concrete walls and tire barriers if my race car was equipped with ABS. :P