325is brake upgrade?

[lkwd318ti]

Hey everybody,
I was thinking about getting 4 rotors and calipers off a 325is.
Do you guys know if it's a bolt on upgrade, or do i need to modify a few things?
I know that 2ndBimmer has a 325i brake upgrade on his car.
Is there a difference between 325i and 325is brakes?
I assume that there isn't any, but just wanna make sure.
Finally, do you guys think that the rear brakes will fit onto our cars?
Thanks guys
-Randy

[1996 328ti]

Front will bolt up. The rears won't fit.

There is no difference between 325i/s or 328 i/s.

[GDB]

I believe the E46 32X rear rotor/caliper combo will work on the rear.

[cali-ti]

GDB, someone posted that at some point, i asked for more details and/or if anyone had done it and heard nothing. do we have proof that this works or is it only speculation at this point? because if it works, i think we'd have a good number of people who'd be willing to do it (vented rotors and all would be nice in the back). i HOPE it's true, i'd just like to know for sure :)

[GDB]

Several people have done it to regular E36s, so I see no reason that it would not work on the ti.

[cali-ti]

unfortunately, our rear is not the same as a regular e36, brakes aren't the same. if you know of someone who's done it though, i'd certainly like to hear details.

[lkwd318ti]

Okay cool, thanks guys. Do you guys think that it would be wise to put 325is brakes on the front and M roadster brakes on the rear (first of all, do they fit?)?
I need new brakes, so i figured "I might as well upgrade" haha
Thanks again guys
-Randy

[cali-ti]

M roadster or MZ3 rear brakes will not fit without the trailing arms (hub is different ... ask J!m for details as i'm going on what he has stated before). if you're getting the trailing arms, then you might as well get the whole subframe from the M donor and then you're looking at a whole lot more than a brake job :) since i'm not autocrossing or racing mine, i am planning to just do the 325/8 fronts and stock rears (calipers are at the powdercoaters now). even if you could put the M versions on the back, i would think you'd want to put the M versions on the front (need the M spindles, M calipers, M rotors, appropriate pads ...).

[1996 328ti]

Okay cool, thanks guys. Do you guys think that it would be wise to put 325is brakes on the front and M roadster brakes on the rear (first of all, do they fit?)?
I need new brakes, so i figured "I might as well upgrade" haha
Thanks again guys
-Randy
Not on a 138hp ti.
I can tell you that vented rotors up front and the stock solid rotors in the rear have performed very well at the track. I think one needs to be careful about mixing brake setups. I'd be concerned about brake bias. BMW engineers know a thing or two about brakes.

[aceyx]

i think the last thing you want is your rear tires to lock up before your fronts. i think the last thing you want is your rear tires to lock up at all.

i can superglue a chair to my arse, but just because i can, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[lkwd318ti]

i think the last thing you want is your rear tires to lock up before your fronts. i think the last thing you want is your rear tires to lock up at all.

i can superglue a chair to my arse, but just because i can, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I was just thinking about that too. I wouldn't want to have the rears lock up haha.
I think I might just go and put the vented rotors on front and keep the solid ones on the rear.
Thanks again
-Randy

[pdxmotorhead]

One of the race cars I take care of (87 Nissan turbo) has VERY similar
brakes to the 318(Size and caliper arrangement.).
It goes through about 5 sets of front pads to each
set of rear pads. Its a 2600 lb car and even with 900 lb springs in front
under hard braking you can't add much bias to the rear without locking
a wheel. And yes its bad if the rear locks first.... Wheeeeee spin wheeeeee

Dave

[aceyx]

I was just thinking about that too.

trust me on this, superglue takes forever to get off. :biggrin:

[Drew325ti]

I am running cross drilled 325i/is rotors and calipers up front and stock 318ti rears. Stainless steal lines and Super Blue fluid were also added in the upgrade list... and I have plenty of brakes (even with out ABS).

[lkwd318ti]

So you guys think that it will be okay to put 325is brakes on the front and keep the stock ones on the back?
From what I've observed, I assume that that it's okay to put stronger brakes on the front and keep the regular ones on the back, or keep them equal to each other...and...it's bad to have stronger brakes on the rear. Is this right?
Also, I guess that it's hard (or impossible) to put the rear 325is rotors on...
Is that right also?
Thanks again guys,
Randy

[1996 328ti]

So you guys think that it will be okay to put 325is brakes on the front and keep the stock ones on the back?YES!:rolleyes:

[cali-ti]

randy, many people have upgraded to 325/8 front brakes (you need calipers, brake carriers and rotors for the 325/8 ). i'm in the process of doing this myself. it will be fine. in fact, it'll be better than fine, you'll have vented rotors in the front :) this is basically the same setup as the 325/8s (vented front, solid rear) and the same as the later year 318ti's (they finally went vented in ... 98 i think). nothing to worry about.

[cali-ti]

i can superglue a chair to my arse, but just because i can, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

let us know how the chair mod performs and by all means post pics! :evil_lau:

that was too funny aceyx, you brightened my ****ty day (see brake forum post "e-brake cable wearing through brake hose - neato!" for why i'm having a ****ty day).

[lkwd318ti]

Thank you everybody,
I'm kind of a newbie...so sorry for my lack of knowledge.
One last thing, That light on the dash indicating that the pads are wearing off is lit. If I get new pads with the rotors, will it automatically go off or is there a sensor that I would need to replace?
Sorry for the many questions...
Thanks again
-Randy

[cali-ti]

don't worry about the questions randy, everybody has 'em when they join here.

yes, there is a pad wear sensor, one each front and back. check the ETK for your particular model ( www.realoem.com/bmw, you'll need the last 7 digits of your VIN, hit the BRAKES section and then it should be fairly obvious from there :p ).

btw, a good place to get used front brake calipers (should come with the carriers too) would be bavarian auto recycling (since you're in CA), www.usedbmwparts.com. they clean and test 'em before they send 'em out. i got my spare rear set from them. when i disassembled them (before dropping them off at the powdercoater), the pistons looked good, no rust or scoring on the piston/bore. i would give them a call if you're thinking about the swap.

[lkwd318ti]

I'm getting vented rotors and calipers (front and rears from a 325is) from somebody at bimmerforums for $200 shipped, do you think that's a good deal, or should i pass this one up?
Now that I know that I can't fit the rears, I guess I might just go and try to sell them if I do get this set.
Besides the rotors,pads and calipers, do i need anything else? You said brake carriers earlier cali-ti. How much do they cost, and can I find them at usedbmwparts.com?
Thanks again
-Randy

[cali-ti]

carriers should be coming with the caliper. carrier bolts to the caliper, it holds the inner pad and is pushed against the rotor by the caliper piston. see this diagram ... brake carrier is #2 (collar screws hold it to the caliper and it moves on the guide bolts and bushings). you should be all set if someone is sending you a used set. i paid ~$55 for a used set of 325 front calipers, forget what i paid for stock rotors from the dealer. seems like a fairly reasonable price, i guess it depends on how many miles are on them, condition, etc. are the rotors new or used?

[1996 328ti]

I paid I think $75 each from Zionsville several years ago. Sow ith shipping that is a good price. Just be sure it comes with the bracket. Fig 2. I would also suggest rebuilding them before installing.

[cali-ti]

thanks for actually posting the diagram steven, lol ... my mind is on my own brake problems, thanks for covering ;)

[austinpeif]

as far as rear brakes go: since the ti shares an almost identical rear suspension set-up as the e30, would rear brakes off a e30 work on the ti?

[cali-ti]

i think i looked up the e30 m3 and it had basically the same/very similar size solid rear rotors that we do. didn't see a point to it after that ...

[lkwd318ti]

I would also suggest rebuilding them before installing.

Hey Steven,
What do you mean by rebuilding?
Do you mean resurfacing the rotors so they are smooth and even?
or is it something else?
thanks again
-Randy

[cali-ti]

rebuilding the calipers. there are rebuild kits which have new seals. i'll be going through this process soon (already started it).

remove the old pads, guide pins/bushings and carriers. then you need to pop the old pistons out with compressed air (be careful when you do this as when the piston does finally pop, it shoots out - you'll need to put a piece of wood on the other side so as not to damage the piston too). also make sure to wear eye protection when you do that, you don't want any brake fluid getting in your eyes. then you need to inspect the piston and the bore for any signs of scoring, etc. if the piston is damaged, you can't get a replacement and need to get another caliper :( clean everything up, if you want to sandblast the outside and/or paint it, now is the time to do that. i dropped mine off to be powdercoated (completely disassembled, they'll dip 'em, tape 'em off and powdercoat them with carriers for $200) and am still waiting for them to finish up. after that, you need to put in the new seals, get the piston back in the bore with the new seals, put in the new bushing kit you got (i went with bavauto's brass caliper bushing kits rather than the rubber), carriers and carrier guide bolts, new pads, bleeder (new recommended, old if you have to - i went with speed bleeders, we'll see how those work) and then you're basically ready to install. you may want to fill it up with new fluid before you put the bleeder in and tighten it just to speed the bleeding process up a bit.

now because my car has over 200k and i'm an anal retentive freak, i ordered all new hoses, mounting bolts, brackets, etc ... if it was on the diagram and was available, i pretty much got a new one :p

some good links covering this topic:

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/brakes/e36_lets_brake_it.html
http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/caliper.htm
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-31491.html

[gooten1]

I will be doing a brake upgrade soon, and this page has been most useful. I love this site!

[Panzer_M]

just finished mine.

325 caliper
Brembo Sport Rotors(C/D)
BMW OE fluid flush
Gtech S/S brake lines.

The back rotors I am having problems with, as they are stuck to the hubs with SuperRustGlue....argh. I am going to have them done by a local BM shop here. Very good place in Orlando.

[1996 328ti]

The back rotors I am having problems with, as they are stuck to the hubs with SuperRustGlue....argh. I am going to have them done by a local BM shop here. Very good place in Orlando.You did release the parking brake, right? Gotta give it some whacks with a dead blow hammer before giving up.

[cali-ti]

haha ... i was JUST going to say the same thing steven :) rotate the rotor with the parking brake off and whack the back side with the dead blow hammer, it'll come off. just did this when disassembling to replace the parking brake cables (a small hell within a much larger one). don't give up before buying a cheap dead blow hammer and whacking it good a few times.

[Viper3812]

I think this was posted earlier, but if I get M front brakes would it be direct bolt on like the 325 or would I have to modify? Would it be best to forget about the M brakes and just get the 325?

[cali-ti]

from what i remember of others, you also need the M spindles.

[MichaelL]

If I upgrade to 325i rotors and calipers, should I order stainless steel hoses for a 318ti? I'm assuming the 318ti and 325i hoses only differ in length, not in the size of the fittings, but wanted to make sure before ordering.

Thanks

Michael

[cali-ti]

318ti and 325i front are the same, but you need the 318ti rears, so order the 318ti set.

[gooten1]

I just finished my upgrade to the 325 fronts, and I must say, IT IS GOOD! I can stop much quicker now. I've got a shimmy that gets worse with speed, but I think that's my alignment. I'm taking it to a friendly mechanic tomorrow to make sure I did everything right and tightened up everything properly.

[Viper3812]

Just did my 328 front brake upgrade today. I put vented brembo blanks, pbr pads, new sensor, and 328 calipers all for $170. It was an easy, cheap, and great mod. The only problem I had was the passenger rotor which was rusted and stuck to the hub, but I got it out. Anyone have that problem?

[cali-ti]

Just did my 328 front brake upgrade today. I put vented brembo blanks, pbr pads, new sensor, and 328 calipers all for $190. It was an easy, cheap, and great mod. The only problem I had was the passenger rotor which was rusted and stuck to the hub, but I got it out. Anyone have that problem?
yeah ... couple whacks with a dead blow hammer (or rubber mallet) usually gets it off.

[Platanos]

i was thinking about getting this........is this a good buy? http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=484611

[Viper3812]

What is the size of the front rotor and caliper of the 325/328?

[CirrusSR22]

The E36 325/328 front rotor is: 286x22 mm

The E46 325/328 front rotor is: 300x22 mm

They all use the same calipers, but with different carriers to accomodate the different rotor diameters.

[Viper3812]

I didn't know they used the same caliper, thought the e46 325 was bigger. 54/22 is the e46 and im assuming the e36 is the same? So is there much of a braking difference between the them with a slighty bigger rotor?

[1996 328ti]

I think the difference will be heat dissipation.
I still run 325/328 vented rotors and have absolutely no braking problems.
Next week I'm going to try to get my cooling ducts installed.
That should make my pads last longer.

[cali-ti]

what brake ducts are you going with?

[1996 328ti]

what brake ducts are you going with?
RRT
I bought them from Bimmerworld last year.
I had the car up on the lift at RRT and we still couldn't get them to fit.
My mechanic just installed them in his M3 so he will take another crack at it.
Although his M3 doesn't have the fender well lining.

[KetteringTi]

i was thinking about getting this........is this a good buy? http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=484611


I'm waiting with baited breath!

Will that work??

[cali-ti]

yes, e46 330 brakes work, is that the question? think you need at least 17" rims to fit 'em. there are a number of people on here with those.

[maverick]

Just ordered a set of e46 325 front calipers/carriers for my ti. They take the 300mm x 22mm vented rotors. Did not cost a lot more than the e36 325 upgrade and figured a little biiger might be a little better and could only be a little worse:-) I also figure that since they are coming off of a newer vehicle, they should be in better condition.

David in Richmond, VA

[HuGo]

Ok, so all i need for the brake conversion is Calipers, Carriers, and Rotors correct? And itll bolt right on.

From what car do we need the 325 brakes? E36, or E46? Does year matter?

Any difference in fitting between the 325 or 328? Any major difference between the braking from 325 or 328?

Is there a significant notice of braking between stock ti brakes and this upgrade?

And dont worry about the rear right? Just leave it stock?

And stating the obvious, but for the future maintance, from now on i gotta get 325 rotors and pads for the front, and regular 318ti for the rear?

Since i have money, i might as well change the brakes while my car will be down for i will assume 2-3 weeks.

[Viper3812]

e36 325 and 328 brakes are the same. the difference in rotors with the 318 is that they are vented and the 318 isn't. If you get e46 325 rotors you will need the calipers and carriers from the e46. The e46 is a bigger rotor. If you wanna do a really good brake upgrade get e46 330i calipers and carriers. I don't know the size off hand but they are bigger than e36 M3 brakes and are direct bolt on unlike the M3 which you would need the hub. If you look on bf.c they usually run around $200-$400.

[HuGo]

e36 325 and 328 brakes are the same. the difference in rotors with the 318 is that they are vented and the 318 isn't. If you get e46 325 rotors you will need the calipers and carriers from the e46. The e46 is a bigger rotor. If you wanna do a really good brake upgrade get e46 330i calipers and carriers. I don't know the size off hand but they are bigger than e36 M3 brakes and are direct bolt on unlike the M3 which you would need the hub. If you look on bf.c they usually run around $200-$400.

Ok so then go with the e46 330i calipers, carriers and rotors and bolts right on? And just front end not rear. So i can either go with e46 330, or e36 325 right?

[Viper3812]

Ok so then go with the e46 330i calipers, carriers and rotors and bolts right on? And just front end not rear. So i can either go with e46 330, or e36 325 right?
You can do:
e36 325/328
e46 325
e46 330i
All will be direct bolt on. e36 will be the cheapest, but e46 are bigger and they will be just like a brembo big brake kit, but a whole lot cheaper. I would go for e46 330i calipers, carriers, pads
(recommend organic pads for less break dust), and slotted rotors. Make sure you have at least 17in rims which I'm sure you do and you definitely do not have to worry about the rears unless you got all the money in the world and want to or just to match the front rotors.

[HuGo]

You can do:
e36 325/328
e46 325
e46 330i
All will be direct bolt on. e36 will be the cheapest, but e46 are bigger and they will be just like a brembo big brake kit, but a whole lot cheaper. I would go for e46 330i calipers, carriers, pads
(recommend organic pads for less break dust), and slotted rotors. Make sure you have at least 17in rims which I'm sure you do and you definitely do not have to worry about the rears unless you got all the money in the world and want to or just to match the front rotors.

thx alot.

[Viper3812]

No problem, anytime.

[Mad-Machine]

I am currently running brakes from an e36 328... going to have to look into the e46 330i conversion. What about the master cylinder, can it handle the pressure and fluid requirements of the bigger brakes?

[HuGo]

I currently run 225/40zr18 (im 98% sure) and bolt pattern should be 5x120, the e46 325 brake upgrade and my tires/rims would work just fine together right?

[AutoM3otives]

If you have a bmw-spec wheel pattern, and want to put on bmw-spec rotors,

Then I'm pretty sure the holes will line up...

[96cali]

I currently run 225/40zr18 (im 98% sure) and bolt pattern should be 5x120, the e46 325 brake upgrade and my tires/rims would work just fine together right?

You could also run the 330 brakes with the those 18's.

[HuGo]

You could also run the 330 brakes with the those 18's.

Im spending a lot of money this month on the car. So i was thinking of being in the middle. Instead of e36 325 and e46 330, ill just go e46 325.

[pdxmotorhead]

Im spending a lot of money this month on the car. So i was thinking of being in the middle. Instead of e36 325 and e46 330, ill just go e46 325.

Huh? wha,,, I ,,, err OMFG .........
I don't think ... :eek:

Jeese I'm speechless.... The logic escapes me...

The $$ diff between the E46 325 and 330 brakes is pennies compared to what your dumping in the engine.

Sorry... I don't get it.... Starting is optional Stopping is mandatory...

Dave

[HuGo]

Huh? wha,,, I ,,, err OMFG .........
I don't think ... :eek:

Jeese I'm speechless.... The logic escapes me...

The $$ diff between the E46 325 and 330 brakes is pennies compared to what your dumping in the engine.

Sorry... I don't get it.... Starting is optional Stopping is mandatory...

Dave

?

[HuGo]

will the e36 M3, carriers, rotors, pads fit the ti? Might get a good deal. I saw the 328 does not sure for the M3?

[Viper3812]

You need the hubs of an M3 to make it fit.

[HuGo]

You need the hubs of an M3 to make it fit.

hhmm. ill keep looking for 328 then.

thx

[HuGo]

Are the hubs required from an e36 328 for Ti? And are the hubs required from the E46 325/330i for the ti? Or is that just for the e36 m3?

[windnsea00]

E36 front calipers are all the same size (minus M3 and Ti) so all you need is the calipers, caliper brackets and pads. Hubs are not required for the E46 325i/330i either. I pm'd you on bf.c about this :)

[Den]

Huh? wha,,, I ,,, err OMFG .........
I don't think ... :eek:

Jeese I'm speechless.... The logic escapes me...

The $$ diff between the E46 325 and 330 brakes is pennies compared to what your dumping in the engine.

Sorry... I don't get it.... Starting is optional Stopping is mandatory...

Dave
?

I think what Dave is saying is that you are wasting time and $ with 325 brakes if you are doing serious mods to your motor.

It will cost maybe another $100 to get 330 brakes(I was quoted $120 for a used pair of 330 calipers.), a bargain if you don't mind the extra weight, and you will need them if you are running big power. You will need all the brakes you can get, and you're lucky the 330 option is available. Otherwise you'd have to spend ~$1k on an aftermarket kit. Of course, there is the issue of front/rear bias, but if you build a beast, your first problem will be stopping it.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=531881

[HuGo]

I got asked a question that i honestly dont know the answer to. Why do i need slotted rotors oppose to the other options?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=723206

[DocDuvi]

so caliper bracket = carriers

right?

[1996 328ti]

so caliper bracket = carriers

right?
Correct.

[Viper3812]

I got asked a question that i honestly dont know the answer to. Why do i need slotted rotors oppose to the other options?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=723206

You don't NEED slotted rotors. Blanks are fine. Slotted/Drilled are mainly for looks and supposedly are better for cooling. It doesn't make that much of a difference in my opinion.

[HuGo]

Oh ok im just wondering. I want the one with the drilled holes on them (yea mainly for looks, nice and shiny :tongue: ) but i here they are no good though?

[Viper3812]

Oh ok im just wondering. I want the one with the drilled holes on them (yea mainly for looks, nice and shiny :tongue: ) but i here they are no good though?

They tend to crack.

[96cali]

So do I understand correctly that my 1999 vented brakes are the same as the 325/8 vented brakes so there is no e36 upgrade except for M3? I would have to go e46 325 to get a larger rotor? Will e46 330 brakes fit a 16" wheel?

There is a link to a great web page comparing all these otions but dang it all I can't find it! :frown:

[Den]

So do I understand correctly that my 1999 vented brakes are the same as the 325/8 vented brakes so there is no e36 upgrade except for M3? I would have to go e46 325 to get a larger rotor? Will e46 330 brakes fit a 16" wheel?

There is a link to a great web page comparing all these otions but dang it all I can't find it! :frown:


You understand correctly. The Ti got 325/328 brakes starting 04/1998.
E46 325 setup will get you ~5% larger rotor with the exact same caliper + pads as the E36, which means no additional stopping power. You would gain nothing but extra weight and a bit more heat capacity in the rotor, which would be a factor only on the track. . .or maybe in the mountains.


This might be the thread you're looking for:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=531881

. . .want to put 330 front brakes on your car, be aware that you'll also have to switch to 17" (minimum) wheels and tires, which also increases the amount of unsprung weight.




My question is:
What is the weight of the E36 vented rotor vs. solid rotor?

[AutoM3otives]

about a 2.65lb increase from solid to vented...

[naustin]

For you guys that have upgraded to Stainless Steel brake lines: Have you noticed a difference in feel in braking solely because of that?

[DailyD]

My question is:
What is the weight of the E36 vented rotor vs. solid rotor?


Here is what was reported in this thread

http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12438&highlight=weight

[blndweasel]

For you guys that have upgraded to Stainless Steel brake lines: Have you noticed a difference in feel in braking solely because of that?

Hey... I just finished my 330 brake upgrade today (finally) and also ran stainless lines throughout.

I would say that the difference isn't as noticeable as it is on most other applications. Reason being, the brake booster acts as a sort of buffer between the MC and the calipers.

On both my corvette, and on my motorcycle, I have upgraded to stainless lines, and the difference is definitely noticeable. However, both of those vehicles are manual brakes, no brake booster to dull the system's response. Very positive brake feel, and very sensitive modulation.

On the Ti, my thought is, if you need to replace the lines anyways, go with Stainless. Especially the lines from BAV auto, they have a protective plastic coating over the stainless weave to protect it from collecting grime. They're really nice. Check your fittings though, because one of my forward lines wasn't drilled at one of the fittings... effectively capped off my brakes at that caliper. Luckily I had a second set lying around.

The stainless lines don't include rubber silencers for the forward lines (the ones that clip into the strut). But you can easily cut the silencers off your old lines and install those.

Last thing, any set of 318 braided lines you buy, it seems are not specifically compatible with the Ti in this one sense: on the forward brake lines, the female thread doesn't have a wide bolster at the fitting, causing it to pop through the frame brake clip here. If you find an appropriately sized washer, you should be able to use it as a retainer clip. I just left mine slipped through the clip. Difficult to describe what I mean without a photo. Bottom line is eventually it will start squeaking once rust forms on the frame clip.

Worth $120? I dunno... Pretty sweet though.

[sculler2x]

I was at the junk yard today and could not get the calipers off. The reason was that the bolts were bigger than 15mm and smaller than 17mm. I don't have any16mm wrenches. What size are the bolts?

[Bobbak]

were you using the metric or standard

[maverick]

I was at the junk yard today and could not get the calipers off. The reason was that the bolts were bigger than 15mm and smaller than 17mm. I don't have any16mm wrenches. What size are the bolts?

The bolts that hold the caliper brackets on these cars are 16mm head size and they are tight, so don't try and use something close. 16mm is usually not included in your average set of wrenches, especially bargin sets, but they are out there. I have a set of Hazet boxes that has one and my Ingersol-Rand impact set does as well...not sure I had one come with the Craftsman kit I have, I don't think so.

Maverick

[1996 328ti]

I usually need to use my jack handle on a breaker bar to loosen the bolt.
And that is after using some PB Blaster.

[sculler2x]

So this gives me an excuse to buy some more tools. I used my 1/2" drive working on my 5 series cars and know how hard I have to pull to get them off.

[ranster]

Hi Guys,

Just a short question! ;)

Can i use the original 318ti brake reservoir tank with an E36 M3 master cylinder?
What about the pipes from the Master cylinders to the ABS pump?

Thanks !!
Ran

[jnande4176]

You know, you can keep from having to beat the snot out of your old rotors to release them from the hubs by cleaning the crap off the hubs with a wire brush and brake cleaner, then applying a high-heat pure copper anti-seize lubricant to the hubs. A little goes a long way with this stuff. You should be able to find it at your local autoparts store, like auto zone, etc. Makes life easier if you do your own brakes.
-Josh

[cali_guy_559]

Wait, I just need the caliper and the carrier right? Is this the carrier, or did I go too far and start removing the spindle out of a 325i without cause? http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c28/chokeonthis_559/0110101511_01.jpg

[1996 328ti]

That is not the carrier.
The carrier bolts onto the left facing the picture.

Fig 2 of the below.

[cali_guy_559]

Thanks. can't wait to buy some rims and put these on.

[zoner]

If I upgrade to 325i rotors and calipers, should I order stainless steel hoses for a 318ti? I'm assuming the 318ti and 325i hoses only differ in length, not in the size of the fittings, but wanted to make sure before ordering.

Thanks

Michael


318ti and 325i front are the same, but you need the 318ti rears, so order the 318ti set.


I am getting ready to upgrade my brakes in the near future as well and had this very same question. I have a complete front setup (spindles, hubs, rotors, calipers, carriers) from a 1996 M3 and was wanting to upgrade to stainless lines. From what I understand in cali-ti's post, the 318ti and 325i use the same brake lines in front, but since the 325i and M3 have different front brakes, do they also have different front lines, or will I still be OK if I order the 318ti stainless line kit but use the M3 front brake system? Based on what I've read in this thread and others, I should be OK with my stock ti MC and booster, just need to know about the lines (or, if anyone cares to chime in on the MC/booster, I'm all ears).

Thanks for any insight...

[maverick]

The 318ti uses specific rear brake lines due to the rear suspension and axle arrangement, so use ti specific lines on these cars. The entire e36/e46/M3 brake caliper range will match up with these hoses, so 325 or M3 calipers on a 318ti use 318ti hoses.

Sorry I have been gone so long, lots of personal and family medical issues grounded me and my ti for 6 months.

Dave

[zoner]

Thanks for the response, Dave.

I knew that the rears were different, and knew that the ti's were the same as the non-M E36's, but was unsure if the E36M's were the same as other E36's.

I'll go ahead and order the stainless kit for ti's. I was looking at the kit that Turner Motorsport sells... does anyone have a favorite other than that kit? Thanks again.

Jerry

[1996 328ti]

Why do you want stainless steel lines?
It is debatable whether they perform any better.
Do you really think stock brake lines expand under pressure?

[Budget M3]

FWIW, at 328ti's recommendation, I bolted the 325/328 calipers w/ vented rotors on my car when I did the DASC conversion 6 years ago and left the rears stock. Using a mild track/street pad, and running 17" wheels and 235/40 rubber, I am still able to outbrake any other street car--e.g. mustangs & vettes (and almost anyone else on the track--race-prepped Mini's can outdo me) at the end of the 1/4-mile straight before the sweeping lefthander at Firebird Main. The ti is so light to begin with, that this is IMHO the best bang for buck upgrade you can make to your ti to increase braking performance.

[Budget M3]

Why do you want stainless steel lines?
It is debatable whether they perform any better.
Do you really think stock brake lines expand under pressure?

I also used SS lines....not sure on the performance issue, but they do maintain a firm feel and seem to last longer than the stock lines.

[1996 328ti]

I also used SS lines....not sure on the performance issue, but they do maintain a firm feel and seem to last longer than the stock lines.I really think it's in our minds.
Rubber lines are steel reinforced.

[zoner]

I know that this is an age-old question as to whether there is any advantage to using SS line over rubber and and many people who have real world racing experience will tell you that there is no difference as far as brake feel. I do have some first hand longevity experience from a car that I once owned that was about 20 years old and one of the front brake lines had deteriorated to the point where it developed a small pinhole leak, but I noticed it before it became a danger to myself and others on the road. I'm of the opinion that failure of a brake system in a car is one of those things that have an extremely low probability but potentially extremely high consequences if it does.

My personal feeling is that unless you're racing the Baja 1000 or in a situation where abrasion or road debris could be a problem, there is no discernable advantage with SS lines.

My initial reasons for wanting to go with SS were 1.) I like the look; and 2.) The cost of the rubber ATE lines were going to be about $170, vs. $129 for SS from Turner Motorsport.

I did a little more poking around and found that I can get all 6 lines (ATE!) from Pelican for about $85, so I'll probably just end up going that route and save the $45. I'm not even sure that the lines need replacing (they likely don't) but after my experience with the leaky brake line years ago and the fact that my car is 15 years old, $85 is more than worth the peace of mind for me when it comes to a brake system.

As far as rubber lines being steel reinforced- I've cut open many brake lines and almost all of them are nylon/fabric reinforced. I know that there are some OEM lines that use steel reinforcement, but my experience tells me that they are in the minority. Additionally, after poking around a bit online, I notice that many SS lines are not DOT approved. DOT approved brake lines will meet whip (35 hours of flailing), ozone, salt spray, cold flex, and tensile (325 lb) tests. I suspect that the not-DOT SS lines do not meet these standards (especially the whip and cold flex tests, as teflon tends to be a little less forgiving than rubber). For the record, the Turner Motorsport SS lines are DOT approved (or so they claim).

Now that I've spent the last hour or so geeking out on hydraulic systems, it's time to go replace the belt tensioner shock on the M42... :wink:

[1996 328ti]

Good info. It sounds like you've made an informed decision.
I may need to replace mine with S/S too.
They do look cool. :)

The last time I got lines I bought Fischer.

[m44lee]

hello guys read through this whole thread before i posted stuff that was already posted!
and while there is some good info in this thread there is also a bit of waffle!

as in people saying it doesnt matter about bigger discs etc! of course it does in laymens terms your using more leverage on a bigger disc (imagine trying to stop a disc with your hands do you think it'd be easier with a smaller disc or a larger 1?)!
as said in some threads the e36 318is -328 front brakes will bolt straight on and have 286mm discs the e36 m3 brakes will only fit after changing the hub the king pin etc and are 315 iirc and is quiet a hassle when you can fit the e46 330 brakes that are bigger at 325mm x 25

however it is recommended that you change the master cylinder to the m3 evo one to keep the peddle feel as without it the travel is too long!

and i've just done this myself a few pics while i did it!

318is brakes
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt159/m44lee/IMG_0216.jpg
changed for the 330 variant with goodridge stainless hoses!
http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt159/m44lee/IMG_0221.jpg

and all done bled up and wheels fitted! and as someone else has said you need at least 17" wheels to fit them under!

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt159/m44lee/IMG_0223.jpg

[pdxmotorhead]

I've done them at the track during a track day. Definately made the pedal harder.

THey also show leaks better if the hose is tired.

Dave

[npagan2]

if i'm swapping the 325is rotors and calipers on, will a 16" wheel work?

[tiFreak]

you could run as small as a 15", they're the same diameter as stock ti brakes, they just use vented instead of solid rotors

[npagan2]

thanks for the info.

[npagan2]

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/312269_187949054621403_133205203429122_413295_1485687998_n.jpg

[Artem]

Hey guys, sorry to bring this one back but I got a relatively specific quesiton.

So I bought a set of rotors all around for my car, and turns out they sent me the vented Brembo ones for the fronts and my car was made in 09/97 - long story short, I got the E46 325i brake caliper + carrier set off an 04 sport and I was wondering the following:

if I have the 286mm x 22mm vented disks, will the E46 brake calipers still work on my car or would I have to get a whole different set of carriers off an E36?


Regards,
Artem

[maverick]

Hey guys, sorry to bring this one back but I got a relatively specific quesiton.

So I bought a set of rotors all around for my car, and turns out they sent me the vented Brembo ones for the fronts and my car was made in 09/97 - long story short, I got the E46 325i brake caliper + carrier set off an 04 sport and I was wondering the following:

if I have the 286mm x 22mm vented disks, will the E46 brake calipers still work on my car or would I have to get a whole different set of carriers off an E36?

I just checked and according to realoem the E46 325i brake rotors are 300mm x 22mm. That means the carriers you have are spaced out too far and will not work properly with the 286mm rotors. What you should have gotten was an E36 setup or maybe the E46 323i seytup to use those rotors.

The calipers are all the same, all E46 and E36 22mm calipers are the same until you get into the M stuff, it is the carriers that vary the posistion to work with the different diameter rotors.

Either send back or sell the 286's and get some 300s or your going to have to change carrriers.

sorry,
Dave


Regards,
Artem

The E46 carrier and callipers will bolt right up no problem.

I just checked and according to realoem the E46 325i brake rotors are 300mm x 22mm. That means the carriers you have are spaced out too far and will not work properly with the 286mm rotors. What you should have gotten was an E36 setup or maybe the E46 323i seytup to use those rotors.

The calipers are all the same, all E46 and E36 22mm calipers are the same until you get into the M stuff, it is the carriers that vary the posistion to work with the different diameter rotors.

Either send back or sell the 286's and get some 300s or your going to have to change carrriers.

sorry,
Dave

[Artem]

Wow, that was quick!

I cross referenced the parts again, and the calipers are identical from the 04 325i; the carriers are not, but the car had 65k miles, calipers looked good, and it was relatively new (only 8 years old), so I think I am happy about those calipers, and will use them when they come in.

Thanks for the clarification, Dave!

On a related note, anyone has a set of E36 (non pre-04/98 TI) brake carriers for sale local in the bay area? Its a huge PITA to get a hold of anyone on CL that has even remotely a chance of selling them.


I decided to go with the stock E36 setup, as I think it will be enough, and I dont really want to wait for them to deliver me new rotors.








Ridiculous shot in the dark but its always in the back of my mind, anyone got a california roof assembly that works for sale?

[Rusky]

Can u still run standard 205-15s with the 325 front brake upgrade

[Artem]

I believe if the wheels came on a 325, they can be used. I think the 325's and 328's had an option of running 15x7 wheels, if you can get them, they should fit, as they ran those brakes.

[samdemange]

Can u still run standard 205-15s with the 325 front brake upgrade

e36 286 mm brake disk= 15 rim
e 46 300 mm brake disk=16 rim
M3 315 or 325 mm = 17 rim
M3 CSL 345 mm brake disk = 18 rim

[bmwme]

Do pads from an e30 work in the rear?

[Marry Parker]

Luk Schaffer (http://www.lukschaffer.com) makes a nice slotted cross drilled rotor (this may help keep them cool and prohibit warping) for not a ton of money. I think they're called Black XD Series. Tell him to make sure that his calipers aren't frozen when installing new pads or rotors, better yet replace them or rebuild them if in doubt. This will help to insure longer life and no rotor warping. I've had mine on a BMW 325i for a year and been happy with them.


Hey everybody,
I was thinking about getting 4 rotors and calipers off a 325is.
Do you guys know if it's a bolt on upgrade, or do i need to modify a few things?
I know that 2ndBimmer has a 325i brake upgrade on his car.
Is there a difference between 325i and 325is brakes?
I assume that there isn't any, but just wanna make sure.
Finally, do you guys think that the rear brakes will fit onto our cars?
Thanks guys
-Randy

[bmw2101]

e36 286 mm brake disk= 15 rim
e 46 300 mm brake disk=16 rim
M3 315 or 325 mm = 17 rim
M3 CSL 345 mm brake disk = 18 rim


why didnt i see this thread ages ago i ve been messing about with e34 disks and calipers this week !!



I really like the idea of the 300mm stuff but i have to stop under 15" wheels, can you space the wheel out by say 10-20mm and clear the ridge in the wheel?

thanks

[anassa]

why didnt i see this thread ages ago i ve been messing about with e34 disks and calipers this week !!



I really like the idea of the 300mm stuff but i have to stop under 15" wheels, can you space the wheel out by say 10-20mm and clear the ridge in the wheel?

thanks

e34 will be good for the rear upgrade - same size rotor i think but bigger caliper. As for the front you can fit m3 e36 front brakes under 16" wheels, you just need some lower offset. From what I understand the 286mm brakes (325/328) vented will work with 15"

[bmw2101]

i have some 735 calipers and disks ont heir way, i dont know if they fit exactly or what.

i have 286 disks now, i want 300 if i can get them under 15"

I may need to space them out a bit to clear the ridge int he wheel

[anassa]

i have some 735 calipers and disks ont heir way, i dont know if they fit exactly or what.

i have 286 disks now, i want 300 if i can get them under 15"

I may need to space them out a bit to clear the ridge int he wheel

Well let us know how that works, as far as I understand anything more then 286 will not clear 15" but if you can manage a 300mm under a 15" I would be very interested in finding out what parts you used.

You don't find the 286 with good pads/rotor/brake fluid etc to be good enough stopping power?

[bmw2101]

its a rally car, so its getting some real abuse, we do say 150 miles in a night, ont eh public roads, all legal etc, but last event i foudn i lost brakes, i use ds3000 front and 1155 mintex rears, castrol 600 fluid. my car weighs 1330, but has gone on a diet, its got 180 bhp and 5.0:1 end ratio now with lexus is200 6 speed box. I have to use forrest tyres which best are sp85 dunlops or 035;s yokohama.

I looked into other brakes liek the porche ones but i just craving more!


road rally cliwendeg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vfS11YSY2Y)

language is welsh


most is on the tar but some is on the loose which is where ypu easily get punctures.

[bmw2101]

More of an idea ;) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6rwBHezP-A)

was out ont his oen but not on the vid...

[slade13]

I just but vented powerstop front rotors and caliper brackets off of another e36 today. The problem that I have is that I had to shave the pads almost in half to get the calipers to fit. What am I missing here? The pads fit all e36's.

[maverick]

Slade13 something is wrong. Did you use the calipers off the other e36 as well as the brackets or your original ones? Did your ti have non vented brakes originally?

[slade13]

I didn't use the calipers from the car that I got the brackets from. I'm guessing that they are different. I'll order 318is calipers and another set of pads in a few weeks.

[maverick]

Spade13 yes that's your problem. Your 318ti came with solid rotors that are much thinner than the 22mm thick vented rotors you fitted and the calipers basically match the thickness. The brackets/carriers match the proper thickness calipers. Now I am not sure off hand if the 318is has the vented or non-vented rotors and calipers so be sure before you order them. I do know that e36 325/328 calipers are the proper size for vented rotors.

[zoner]

I do know that e36 325/328 calipers are the proper size for vented rotors.

^^ This.

[slade13]

The weird thing is that ecs tuning lists the calipers fitting a wide range of models including the ti.

[maverick]

The thing is that they could list the ti for both the narrow and wide caliper because the late produced models came with the vented rotors while the earlier ones didn't. Also I rarely trust those tables without some serious cross referencing to confirm.

[slade13]

Yeah, I thought about that listing with the newer ti's being included because of the vented rotors. Well anyway, I ordered rebuilt calipers and brackets for a 328i a little bit ago. Hopefully it all works.

[slade13]

I put on the new calipers and brackets on yesterday. An eyeball measurement showed that the original Ti calipers are different. It all works now.

[ths916m3]

I'm bringing it back. All this talk about brakes and what fits and what doesn't. I figured this would be a good place to ask this question since its sticky'd.

Will the factory or even the Z3 spare work with the larger brake upgrades?

[ZEK]

I'm bringing it back. All this talk about brakes and what fits and what doesn't. I figured this would be a good place to ask this question since its sticky'd.

Will the factory or even the Z3 spare work with the larger brake upgrades?

Which brake upgrade mean? The front e36 6 cyl will work easily with 15s and the spare. I have seen E46 330 front BBK 325MM X 25MM on a 16" with a spacer.