Pulley???

[Juni]

Okay, so if I have a supercharger, how would I get more boost out of it?
Larger pulley's or smaller pulley's? And what is the safest boost rating for an M44 engine on stock internals? Would I need an Intercooler? Would an intercooler be effitient on a supercharger? I know it's a lot of questions but I need to get some answers so I can get my winter project going.

all input is appreciated,
Juni

[Tyler]

Well all i can answer is the pulleys. If you buy and underdrive pulley sytem you could probally squeeze out 5hp tops on a stock m44 engine.

[Juni]

Well all i can answer is the pulleys. If you buy and underdrive pulley sytem you could probally squeeze out 5hp tops on a stock m44 engine.

I guess what I mean by pulley, is the the actual pulley on the supercharger.
Does a larger pulley equal more boost out of a supercharger?

[Tyler]

I'm not sure..

Is DustenT in da house maybee he can answer this.

[city]

you want a smaller pulley in order to get more HP, a bigger one will just rob you of HP

[Juni]

so to say an example.......(and these are made up numbers) if I had a 3" pulley making 7psi and went down to a 2" pulley, that would make 11psi? Does that sound right?

[DustenT]

so to say an example.......(and these are made up numbers) if I had a 3" pulley making 7psi and went down to a 2" pulley, that would make 11psi? Does that sound right?

www.itsallaboutspeed.com (http://www.itsallaboutspeed.com ) has different size pulleys for sale at a very reasonable price (~$100). If you do run a smaller pulley you need to make sure you aren't running lean. Are you using a wideband o2 sensor? If not, I highly recommend getting one, so you know how much boost you can safely run.

I'm running a PLX Device R-500 (www.plxdevices.com). It monitors EGT(exhaust gas temp.), AFR (Air/Fuel Ratio via a Wideband o2 sensor), Knock, and Boost (had to install a 2 bar GM Map sensor). I can also do 90 minutes of datalogging on it, so I can dump it onto my computer and analysis the data.

I have considered getting the smaller pulley, but I'm nervous. I really don't want to gernade my motor. Is anyone else running the smaller pulley??

[bryboy]

I have considered getting the smaller pulley, but I'm nervous. I really don't want to gernade my motor. Is anyone else running the smaller pulley??

I'm sure that there's one guy on Bimmerforums running a smaller pulley on his DASC setup.

Yep, its Coleco, running a 3.4 pulley, Nick G Stage3 software & Aquamist (I just did a search)

He's got 9.5 psi, seems to be down by 2 psi.

[Juni]

now my major follow up question is how do you intercool a supercharger? I've already searched it on the forum but the results were kinda inconclusive. I just kinda want a general idea of how to route the piping. Since the intercooler has an inlet and an outlet, where do they both lead?

[DustenT]

now my major follow up question is how do you intercool a supercharger? I've already searched it on the forum but the results were kinda inconclusive. I just kinda want a general idea of how to route the piping. Since the intercooler has an inlet and an outlet, where do they both lead?

Currently there is NO intercooler available for the DASC. Some of us are running water/alcohol injection. I did this summer and it seemed to help, but I think I need to run more boost to actually see a big benefit.

[Juni]

Currently there is NO intercooler available for the DASC. Some of us are running water/alcohol injection. I did this summer and it seemed to help, but I think I need to run more boost to actually see a big benefit.


I dont mean for the DASC, i meant for the KO performance one. Im trying to put one together and I just wanna get my facts straight before I do any kind of fabrication. I previously had plans to swap out the M44 for the M52tu out of an E46 3 series, but a big reality check quickly killed those plans. So now I've been researching on intercooling a supercharger to avoid your engine from detonating. It seems that it can be done, it's just that knowbody tells me how in any kind of helpful detail.

The reason I am so hung up on intercoolers as a side note is that they just look mean peering thru the ///Mtech front bumper. But ofcourse, fuctionality is my main goal.

[DustenT]

I dont mean for the DASC, i meant for the KO performance one. Im trying to put one together and I just wanna get my facts straight before I do any kind of fabrication. I previously had plans to swap out the M44 for the M52tu out of an E46 3 series, but a big reality check quickly killed those plans. So now I've been researching on intercooling a supercharger to avoid your engine from detonating. It seems that it can be done, it's just that knowbody tells me how in any kind of helpful detail.

The reason I am so hung up on intercoolers as a side note is that they just look mean peering thru the ///Mtech front bumper. But ofcourse, fuctionality is my main goal.

The KO and DASC setups are the same, just different style intake manifolds. You would need to run a air to water intercooler with a roots-style supercharger. That is what Chevy and Saturn are doing on their SC'ed production vehicles. I have never seen an air to air intercooler used with a roots style charger. It might be possible, but I'm not sure it would be worth it.

[Juni]

The KO and DASC setups are the same, just different style intake manifolds. You would need to run a air to water intercooler with a roots-style supercharger. That is what Chevy and Saturn are doing on their SC'ed production vehicles. I have never seen an air to air intercooler used with a roots style charger. It might be possible, but I'm not sure it would be worth it.

I just read something about an "aftercooler", has anybody heard of this or what it really does? Does anybody on this forum use it?

[AlaskaBlue]

If you want to upgrade the KO supercharger just call them. They have upgrade kits with some sort of intercooler, water alcohol injection, custom burned software, smaller pullies etc..

[Juni]

If you want to upgrade the KO supercharger just call them. They have upgrade kits with some sort of intercooler, water alcohol injection, custom burned software, smaller pullies etc..

Yea, but I would practically have to sell mi kidney to be able to afford the upgrade.

[TiPerformance]

I have never seen an air to air intercooler used with a roots style charger. It might be possible, but I'm not sure it would be worth it.

The 80's - early 90's Ford thunderbird Super coupe used a Air to Air intercooler on with a roots blower.

[Juni]

The 80's - early 90's Ford thunderbird Super coupe used a Air to Air intercooler on with a roots blower.

That is correct, but it is a different styled blower than the M62 that KO uses.

[TiPerformance]

I know it is different, I was just stating that there was a roots blower with a air ro air intecooler since DustenT siad that he had never see one.

[KOjag]

After cooler or intercooler,
I have done it once on a z3 project for a good friend of mine. Started with our out of the box ko s/c, and went from there, I actually have been trying to get him to drive back down to Miami so we can snap some pictures, but Ill explain it the best I can.
I reduced the intake manifold to a simple 4 short runners reaching just past the fuel rail, then connecting into a 2" tube. At this point the intake manifold is nothing but an air distribution setup, does not carry the supercharger or take up alot of space, just distribute from a 3" inlet to the 4 runners and mounts the injectors. Now the supercharger was flipped backwards with the delta facing away from the enigne, now instead of blowing directly into an intake manifold it was blowing into a tube, which fed down to the front bumper , through an intercooler, and back to the inlet on the intake manifold.
Problems-1. now we have ALOT of surface are under vacuum and many opportunities for a vacuum leak, because its not like a turbo or a vortech where you blow through the throttle body, now the intercooler and all the piping become an extension of the intake manifold per say. Also with the reverse mounting of the s/c came he problems of reconnecting the throttle body to the intake of the s/c,, it was tight but it worked. Last, now you must turn the supercharger faster to feel the same boost and there is a slight lag to the boost vs. my original design. All in all, we gained ,, I dont know about HP because he wouldn’t pay for a dyno ( baller on a budget) but we gained the ability to run 9.5 psi safely, which we are now are doing with our "out of the box s/c” running water injection and a smaller pulley, the difference in HP between Front mount intercooler and a water injection system just based on driving both cars was not worth the trouble, believe me!

[pdxmotorhead]

The ford thunderbird SuperCoupes used Air to air intercoolers...

Bypassed one once because of damage to limp the car home...
Major difference, car pinged and ran badly. New intercooler and it
was fine...

If you want to know how RPM affects superchargers (Pulley sizes)
the Eaton web pages have the blower performance data charts on line.
It will let you ESTIMATE the effect of a pulley. There are too many variables
for an exact cut...

Dave

[nuvolarossa]

a little OT: it's true that if I modify a eaton supercharger kit with fitting a air to air intercooler the pressure of the S/C comes down of 1 or 2 psi of when it no has a intercooler?

sorry for the English... :eek: