New Supercharger on the market?

[weezer]

http://www.eatonm3.com/318super.htm

Does this unit look familiar to anyone?
Looks like they're using the same picture as KO'ss
Or is it the other way around?

[1996 328ti]

I don't know. Would you buy from a company called Midnight Autoworks?

[weezer]

Not really, I think I'd spend the money and get a proven system.
Off the subject, do you by any chance know Steve, manager of Mt. Vernon Inn?

Fariz

[DustenT]

That is the KO supercharger.

[stormos]

looks shiiiiiiiiiaaaaat either way ;)

[davep-uk]

are there any reputable company's in the UK who supercharge bimmers?

[AlaskaBlue]

That is definately the KO s/c...stay away from it...very far away

[davep-uk]

ive seen the KO kit mentioned on here. whats so wrong with it? (i'm completely clueless about this sort of thing)

[L84THSKY]

Yup, that is the one they show on their website.

That is the KO supercharger.

[halek]

are there any reputable company's in the UK who supercharge bimmers?

These guys sell will sell you a DASC, not cheap though.
http://www.ca-automotive.co.uk/index.shtml

[myblueTI]

Has anyone heard of this http://bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4627350? Ive just found this a couple days ago.

[davep-uk]

These guys sell will sell you a DASC, not cheap though.
http://www.ca-automotive.co.uk/index.shtml


nice site! lots of goodies i'd like to re-mortgage the house for!

[Midnight Autoworks]

Yes, we have a new supercharger kit on the market,
KO supercharger story;
Midnight Autoworks is located in Miami, we built and designed a supercharger kit for the 318 '96-'99 1.9liter that was based on the Downing Atlanta system. We introduced our supercharger system to KO Performance to market and sell our kit due to their large online presence. We provided them with a sample unit to market and sell. They took the unit and decided to copy our system and manufacture it inhouse. They were unable to "copy" our system succesfully, they were using poorly welded backyard made manifolds in order to avoid purchasing the manifolds from us. They did not purchase a license agreement, they simply tried to copy it. KO Performance does not manufacture any other products, they resell for manufacturers. Our product is in no way shape of form the same system KO performance was shipping. We are not affiliated with KO performance.
Midnight Autoworks story;
We began four years ago on this project with our own 1.9L Z3. Since then we have made many revisions to the kit until we we able to produe the system that A) fit the 318 and Z3 B) includes software, 30lbs injectors, 3" hfm not mechanical fuel regulator C) incorporated a water injection kit D) 10 psi safely with 3.1" pulley. We did not have any online presence, mostly local installations and the occasional e-bay listing. After our ordeal with KO Performance we decided to create our own website and market the product ourselves. The website is new and underdeveloped but we plan on making a posting when our website is ready.

We tried to do business with KO performance, but they screwed us over along with destroying the name of our superhcarger. We feel that there is no magic in marketing, a good product will sell itself.

If you have andy Questions or Concerns please Write to sales@eatonm3.com or call Gus at (786) 348-5104

[DustenT]

Yes, we have a new supercharger kit on the market,
KO supercharger story;
<snipped>

Message sent!

[318tiRedLeather]

Yes, we have a new supercharger kit on the market,
KO supercharger story;
<snipped>

Could we see some close up pictures of the real manifolds to see what the product really is.

[AlaskaBlue]

We tried to do business with KO performance, but they screwed us over along with destroying the name of our superhcarger.


If that is really true, that is a huge understatement. It will take a LOT to win the community back after what happend to one of our members. Videos, real dynos, more real dynos, quality, honesty, more videos, 1/4 mile time slips, etc.

After our ordeal with KO Performance we decided to create our own website and market the product ourselves. The website is new and underdeveloped but we plan on making a posting when our website is ready.


The only problem is that Joe Ghattas referred me to your website http://eatonm3.com in November. At that time, it was also called KO Performance Developement and not Midnight Autoworks. Granted it has changed in the look, but it is not new. Can you explain this?

[pdxmotorhead]

There is one on e-bay, I was about to ask if anybody knew any thing about them.... :)

DAVE

[Midnight Autoworks]

#1 I will be posting close up pictures of the manifold in all angles by tomorrow night, that seems to be priority number one.
#2 I am Joseph Ghattas and I used to answer technical phone calls for KO Performance , I no longer work for KO Performance, I now work at Midnight Autoworks and I am helping them get their web site up and market the supercharger manufacture direct, after KO attempted to manufacture their own kit and called it a "revision", I began forwarding customers to the underdeveloped Midnight Autoworks website so they could purchase direct and get a kit that actually works, the other KO Performance sales rep ,Greg, also quit last week because of this "in house" supercharger ordeal. I now work for midnight Autoworks full time and I am prepared to bring to light any of the , dynos, videos ,details about the supercharger that you need before anyone here makes a decision.
#3 Because of the damage done to the name or reputation around our supercharger kit, I am offering one member, any member, any where in the U.S. the following:
We will fly to you with our stage 3 supercharger kit, let you inspect the parts completely, then we will install the system on your car from a-z and you drive the car and if you are not 100% satisfied with the kit we will uninstall it , return your car to stock absolutely free we go home and you haven’t spent a penny, if you are satisfied with the kit and completely blown away by the power of your car, you can buy the kit for $3,399 and the installation is free, we go home and you confirm to the forum that the kit is everything we promised.

[lkwd318ti]

#1 I will be posting close up pictures of the manifold in all angles by tomorrow night, that seems to be priority number one.
#2 I am Joseph Ghattas and I used to answer technical phone calls for KO Performance , I no longer work for KO Performance, I now work at Midnight Autoworks and I am helping them get their web site up and market the supercharger manufacture direct, after KO attempted to manufacture their own kit and called it a "revision", I began forwarding customers to the underdeveloped Midnight Autoworks website so they could purchase direct and get a kit that actually works, the other KO Performance sales rep ,Greg, also quit last week because of this "in house" supercharger ordeal. I now work for midnight Autoworks full time and I am prepared to bring to light any of the , dynos, videos ,details about the supercharger that you need before anyone here makes a decision.
#3 Because of the damage done to the name or reputation around our supercharger kit, I am offering one member, any member, any where in the U.S. the following:
We will fly to you with our stage 3 supercharger kit, let you inspect the parts completely, then we will install the system on your car from a-z and you drive the car and if you are not 100% satisfied with the kit we will uninstall it , return your car to stock absolutely free we go home and you haven’t spent a penny, if you are satisfied with the kit and completely blown away by the power of your car, you can buy the kit for $3,399 and the installation is free, we go home and you confirm to the forum that the kit is everything we promised.

Hehe cool!
I kinda like the sound of #3 there...
I'm down for it lol.

-Randy

[HuGo]

Sounds good, dusten, u got any other Ti's laying around? To bad i aint got money or else id try it. Hey midnight auto, u guys finance?

[nuvolarossa]

Are you the same guys of the old site z3power? The logos are the same.

[Midnight Autoworks]

Yes same guys, back when it was just on the z3's and we were using the modified stock manifolds and fuel pressure regulators, that kit worked but wasnt as good as Downing Atlanta and not nearly as good as the kit we have today.
Z3power.com was getting less then 50 visitors per month and anyone who looked at the site was not impresed, so we took our kit to KO and offered them a nice margin on the supercharger kit, they thought the kit looked easy to reproduce on their own and decided to make it in house, etc.................
So now we are going to :market ,sell, and assemble and tech support the kit our selves and deliver top notch kits and customer service and win the 318ti forums trust.

[nuvolarossa]

Yes same guys, back when it was just on the z3's and we were using the modified stock manifolds and fuel pressure regulators, that kit worked but wasnt as good as Downing Atlanta and not nearly as good as the kit we have today.
Z3power.com was getting less then 50 visitors per month and anyone who looked at the site was not impresed, so we took our kit to KO and offered them a nice margin on the supercharger kit, they thought the kit looked easy to reproduce on their own and decided to make it in house, etc.................
So now we are going to :market ,sell, and assemble and tech support the kit our selves and deliver top notch kits and customer service and win the 318ti forums trust.
I have a question: on the stages 2&3 what "air mass meter" do you use? Or just from what car? The pins are the same of the original Air mass meter unit connector?

[DustenT]

So now we are going to :market ,sell, and assemble and tech support the kit our selves and deliver top notch kits and customer service and win the 318ti forums trust.

You have a lot of work ahead of you. I think everyone on this forum is going to be VERY skeptical of any new product. BTW - I replied back to your personal email address.

Take a look at the KO supercharger threads, if you haven't already. L84THSKY purchased one and just got refunded recently. I think your best bet would be to give L84THSKY a smokin' deal on your setup, since he is ready to buy.

L84THSKY - I believe you dealt directly with Joe. What are your thoughts?

[L84THSKY]

No doubt I am the one who should get this no strings install offer.

Joe called me last night and gave me his pitch. I'm curious if anyone sees any holes in his story. I'm gonna leave it up to you guys who are most skeptical of this kit. If you guys think I should go ahead, then I will.

But like alot of people said, get pictures and alot of technical data out for all to see, before you waste a plane trip to NY.

You have a lot of work ahead of you. I think everyone on this forum is going to be VERY skeptical of any new product. BTW - I replied back to your personal email address.

Take a look at the KO supercharger threads, if you haven't already. L84THSKY purchased one and just got refunded recently. I think your best bet would be to give L84THSKY a smokin' deal on your setup, since he is ready to buy.

L84THSKY - I believe you dealt directly with Joe. What are your thoughts?

[L84THSKY]

If you wanna make good, here is my offer.

1. You come up to NY with a stage III kit.
2. After the kit is installed and working, you go home.
3. You wait 6 months to see that the reliability holds up; no failures.
4. After 6 months I pay you for a stage II kit, not a stage III.

The free install is for your benefit; you can take all the pictures you like. If you want it dynoed, then by all means. The stage III at stage II price is for my benefit. Then, I got a good deal, after all the **** I went through.


Because of the damage done to the name or reputation around our supercharger kit, I am offering one member, any member, any where in the U.S. the following:
We will fly to you with our stage 3 supercharger kit, let you inspect the parts completely, then we will install the system on your car from a-z and you drive the car and if you are not 100% satisfied with the kit we will uninstall it , return your car to stock absolutely free we go home and you haven’t spent a penny, if you are satisfied with the kit and completely blown away by the power of your car, you can buy the kit for $3,399 and the installation is free, we go home and you confirm to the forum that the kit is everything we promised.

[DustenT]

If you wanna make good, here is my offer.

1. You come up to NY with a stage III kit.
2. After the kit is installed and working, you go home.
3. You wait 6 months to see that the reliability holds up; no failures.
4. After 6 months I pay you for a stage II kit, not a stage III.

The free install is for your benefit; you can take all the pictures you like. If you want it dynoed, then by all means. The stage III at stage II price is for my benefit. Then, I got a good deal, after all the **** I went through.

I second L8's request. This seems very fair. If you want to sell these supercharger kits, you need to have at least one VERY satisfied customer. L8 is about as anal as they come, so this is to your advantage.

I don't know that you will need 6 months to test the kit however. This needs to be mutually beneficial, so I would suggest 1 month of testing on your car, then report back and pay for the kit.

Midnight - If you have a hang $3k out on the line for a month to sell these kits, your getting a hell of a deal. Assuming they are as high quality as you say they are.

L8 - If this goes through, I suggest a before and after dyno on your car with air/fuel monitoring. There are many dynos with the DASC, so I'd like to see how these two units compare.

[96cali]

I also think 6 mos is extreme- maybe 30 or 60 days. :confused:

[weezer]

:biggrin: .....HEY don't I at least get a pat on the back for semi-discovering this?....heh heh heh...LOL
:wink:

[andyman7931]

if L8 gets this deal and is happy, you can put me down for purchasing a kit. Within the next few months I'll be buying a kit, for now it's probably going to be a DASC, but if there's a good alternative, I'm open.

I still haven't gotten my car yet. on Fri I'm flying up to MA to pick it up. I'm so excited. I hate paying for something and not getting to play with it.

[L84THSKY]

Joe called me last night about this whole mess, so sorry, no brownie points:icon_poke

:biggrin: .....HEY don't I at least get a pat on the back for semi-discovering this?....heh heh heh...LOL
:wink:

[andyman7931]

one more question. What is the real HP of the kits? The main page says stage 1 is 175 rwhp and stage 3 is 214 rwhp, yet on the 318 supercharger page it says the stage 1 kit has 169 rwhp and stage 3 has 219 rwhp. I'm starting to have some doubts.

[DustenT]

:biggrin: .....HEY don't I at least get a pat on the back for semi-discovering this?....heh heh heh...LOL
:wink:

*pats weezer on the back* Good job, keep up the good work, I'm proud of you. Feeling a little under-appreciated?

[L84THSKY]

Fine ....60 days it is.....:cool:

I also think 6 mos is extreme- maybe 30 or 60 days. :confused:

[L84THSKY]

Where did that come from?:mad:


L8 is about as anal as they come, so this is to your advantage.

[DustenT]

Where did that come from?:mad:

I was wondering how long it would take for you to say something.

But seriously, I think everyone trusts that you would be the most anal at this point about inspecting the supercharger kit. Have you talked to Joe about this yet?

[AlaskaBlue]

If this kit works out for L8 and it is as good as stated I would be interested as well. I kind of switched from wanting power to wanting to know how to race/drive on the track. So I guess I would want an S/C eventually or a swap or whatever...after I can go as fast as I can in my car the way it is.

[1rstbmw!]

If L8 is happy with the kit, I would be interested around August.

[weezer]

I'm one of those guys who prefer to work the hard way i achiveing more HP. You know; stroker pistons, larger displacement, higher compression, head porting, etc. I used to do that in high school when I raced ( about 20 yrs ago) and appreciated the blood sweat and tears and staying up late to make the deadline for next dau qualifications. However, cars today are so complicated that a supercharger seems closer to my ideal to achieve more hp. Staying with the stock engine and enhancing it, rather tan swapping it.....not to offend the swappers out there.

[CirrusSR22]

This post needs a:

Numerous, close up, high quality pics or BAN!!!

:D Sorry

[andyman7931]

one more question. What is the real HP of the kits? The main page says stage 1 is 175 rwhp and stage 3 is 214 rwhp, yet on the 318 supercharger page it says the stage 1 kit has 169 rwhp and stage 3 has 219 rwhp. I'm starting to have some doubts.


looks like they fixed their website, so now where's the high res pics?

[andyman7931]

if you want a stage 3 for cheap, there's one on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bmw-318-Eaton-roots-Supercharger-kit-1-9l-z3-204-rwhp_W0QQitemZ8028331926QQcategoryZ33741QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[DustenT]

I'm starting to wonder about this. There are like 6 people on this site that have shown interest in this kit, but he still hasn't posted up any more information. He's ignoring a major customer base here. PROCEED WITH CAUTION.

[Midnight Autoworks]

We are not ignoroing anyone, were just busy, last night we were taking pictures of an install . Today we took pictures of the manifold and took some video , were trying to post a video in mpeg format of a race between the 1.9s/c vs the 3.2l n/a . Just give us a little time, Dustin, I answere your emails within minutes man.

[AlaskaBlue]

We are not ignoroing anyone, were just busy, last night we were taking pictures of an install . Today we took pictures of the manifold and took some video , were trying to post a video in mpeg format of a race between the 1.9s/c vs the 3.2l n/a . Just give us a little time, Dustin, I answere your emails within minutes man.

If you want I will be more tha willing to host this race.

[L84THSKY]

Don't be surprised if you see alot of chatter from Midnight Autoworks, then they dissappear for awhile. This is the same crap Joe pulled on the KO disaster.

The point is this, if they have a running proven system that has been installed dozens of times, then why didn't they ALREADY have pictures and videos?
With all the so called "experience" in doing this supercharger, they sure seem way behind the eight ball.

The supercharger selling on Ebay now will probably not sell, only proving that the price they market this kit as is too high.

That is what hooked me into the KO system in the first place. I thought I got a great deal at $2000.00, turns out I got ripped off.

Don't hold your breath, cause I'm the most serious potential customer on this site, and I'm long from convinced they even have ONE working system!:cool:

I'm starting to wonder about this. There are like 6 people on this site that have shown interest in this kit, but he still hasn't posted up any more information. He's ignoring a major customer base here. PROCEED WITH CAUTION.

[andyman7931]

Don't hold your breath, cause I'm the most serious potential customer on this site, and I'm long from convinced they even have ONE working system!:cool:


I'm not going to buy one unless they make you a satisfied customer first.

I know they'll change their website after I post this, just like they did with the incorrect hp figures, but if you look at the pricing section of the website (http://www.eatonm3.com/pricing.htm) it looks like it's from someone else. Who is JR performance, and why does the title bar say "knowledge base search form"? Also, the intake manifold section says something rather scary... "We use our KO design custom cast-Aluminum intake manifold to fit the Eaton Supercharger to the BMW cylinderhead" If L8's experiences with KO and the pictures I saw of the KO manifold are even a hint of what these guys are about, I'm thinking the DASC is more of a way to go.

--still waiting on high res pics here...

[andyman7931]

EVEN SCARIER... went to the checkout section... http://www.eatonm3.com/kbaftr.htm

look at the contact info...

Email: jag@koperformance.com

Phone: (888)-581-1035

[1996 328ti]

http://www.whois.sc/eatonm3.com
Registrant:
J&R performance
545 Ft. Lauderdale Beach BLVD.
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316
US

Domain name: EATONM3.COM

Administrative Contact:
Ghattas, Joseph http://img.nameintel.com/email.pgif?md5=7596dd338d5af8e418ec73a4b2040e63 (http://www.whois.sc/whois-privacy/)
650 west ave.
Miami, FL 33139
US
954-696-7333
Technical Contact:
Manager, Domains http://img.nameintel.com/email.pgif?md5=0408a19eb14652c4e336fe7fde034545 (http://www.whois.sc/whois-privacy/)
5160 Yonge St
1800
Toronto, ON M2N 6L9
CA
+1.4166612100 Fax: +1.4166610700

http://www.whois.sc/koperformance.com
Domain Name.......... koperformance.com
Creation Date........ 2001-08-03
Registration Date.... 2001-08-03
Expiry Date.......... 2008-08-03
Organisation Name.... KO ENTERPRISES, INC.
Organisation Address. 10871 NW 12 PL
Organisation Address.
Organisation Address. Plantation
Organisation Address. 33322
Organisation Address. FL
Organisation Address. UNITED STATES

Admin Name........... John Paul Komasinski
Admin Address........ 1216 Dickinson Dr. Apt 36W
Admin Address........
Admin Address........ Coral Gables
Admin Address........ 33146
Admin Address........ FL
Admin Address........ UNITED STATES
Admin Email.......... Whois Privacy and Spam Prevention by Whois Source
Admin Phone.......... 305-502-4403
Admin Fax............

[Midnight Autoworks]

Like I said, we are not done with the web site, we did not post the website here because it is not done, I (Joseph Ghattas used to work with KO Performance like you all know.
I started setting up the Midnight Autoworks website about 3 months ago and I threw all of the pages up with anything I had and I am finishing them one page at a time. If you would rather me delete the pages until I am done, we can. I am not asking anyone here to send money to purchase one of these kits, This thread was started when I made an offer, I have offered to sell ONE supercharger , and I personally will be installing that supercharger, other then that, Midnight Autoworks website is not open for online sales yet.
Just wait until were done with site, Once again let me reiterate, Midnight Autoworks is not associated with KO Performance and our supercharger is not the kit they were shipping. On the other hand I do find it interesting that the name KO is like a curse word on here when I went to the originaly with my kit because I thought they were an upfront company, by the way there M50 manifold conversion kit is also a midnight autoworks kit that I am sure they are coping becuase there not buying them from us anymore.

[Midnight Autoworks]

I know you guys are saying that you are interested or scared or whatever, I am not here to arm wrestle you into my supercharger kit, I have a z3 1.9 and I have this kit on my car and I have put it on many other peoples cars in south Florida , If you are interested in the kit, I am never going to give the kit away for free, but I will let one of you "try before you buy" by personally putting one on your car and then you can buy it or tell me to take it home with me. I can't think of another way to prove a product , It doesn’t cost you anything if you don’t like it. "Don’t like it " is a totally open statement! so even if it beats 214rwhp and it looks sweet and you just don't like it, then we take it home. So if your thinking about it, take a test drive, in your own car with our kit.

[Panzer_M]

let me come down with 2 other trusted bimmer guys and test drive your z3, show us the production line and the quality of the parts and I'll tape the whole show and post it here.

after seeing the quality of the 3 and 1/2 ports done on L8's kit, my opinion is the KO setup is and was a joke, and if you try to buffer that 1. your not a engineer and 2. your an idiiot for thinking that is a good design, and I don't care about the forward shift excuse, that could have been done better/cleaner.

[Midnight Autoworks]

Once again, KO was not shipping midnight autoworks kits,We are not KO.
But, yes I would love to have you guys come down and drive our cars and have a look around, please pm or call me at (954)-696-7333 we can work out an apointment for a test drive.

[HuGo]

not bad not bad.

[andyman7931]

Like I said, we are not done with the web site, we did not post the website here because it is not done, I (Joseph Ghattas used to work with KO Performance like you all know.

ok, we know you use to work at KO. I understand that.

I started setting up the Midnight Autoworks website about 3 months ago and I threw all of the pages up with anything I had and I am finishing them one page at a time.

so if you started setting up the webpage 3 months ago and copied KO's stuff, that leads me to believe that your company is younger than KO.

Once again let me reiterate, Midnight Autoworks is not associated with KO Performance and our supercharger is not the kit they were shipping.

then why does your website say it uses KO parts, and why does your contact info use a KO e-mail address and telephone #?

Also, didn't you promise us high resolution pictures by last night?


This thread was started when I made an offer, I have offered to sell ONE supercharger , and I personally will be installing that supercharger, other then that, Midnight Autoworks website is not open for online sales yet.

is this the ONE supercharger you're selling on ebay, or the ONE you are selling here. Why does your website provide a link to paypal for people to order kits if you're only selling ONE + ONE = ONE. (KO engineer's math)

[Midnight Autoworks]

Again andy, not here to arm wrestle,the web site is not done, But if you remember a company called z3power, that was me you can look it up, years before KO performance ever had mention of a 1.9l s/c. I am selling a kit on ebay, and I am offering this forum the one installed supercharger, my point is I am not in a hurry to sell you guys the kit before I prove the kit, So just wait, I am not doe yet, when I have posted everything and there is one forum member with this kit on his car, then Ill start advertising and selling this product and you guys can milk me for info. Also, I am not going to sell a single kit I dont already have in a box ready to ship. Build times are stupid and it just means the company a:didnt have the money to inventory everything, or B: started selling and never cought up.

[L84THSKY]

I'm curious, how long do you think it will take to install? Keep in mind, you are offering to install, then if I don't like it, remove the whole thing. You can bet that if you install it on a Sturday, assuming you can in one day, and it doesn't work, you will reverse the whole process so I can drive it to work on Monday.

So give me a time line on a full install and removal, assuming 3 hours inbetween for drive testing?


I know you guys are saying that you are interested or scared or whatever, I am not here to arm wrestle you into my supercharger kit, I have a z3 1.9 and I have this kit on my car and I have put it on many other peoples cars in south Florida , If you are interested in the kit, I am never going to give the kit away for free, but I will let one of you "try before you buy" by personally putting one on your car and then you can buy it or tell me to take it home with me. I can't think of another way to prove a product , It doesn’t cost you anything if you don’t like it. "Don’t like it " is a totally open statement! so even if it beats 214rwhp and it looks sweet and you just don't like it, then we take it home. So if your thinking about it, take a test drive, in your own car with our kit.

[DustenT]

I'm curious, how long do you think it will take to install? Keep in mind, you are offering to install, then if I don't like it, remove the whole thing. You can bet that if you install it on a Sturday, assuming you can in one day, and it doesn't work, you will reverse the whole process so I can drive it to work on Monday.

So give me a time line on a full install and removal, assuming 3 hours inbetween for drive testing?

You won't want to take it off.

I'm going to assume this kit works and makes power. Ultimately that is what you are after. Fit and finish is where KO feel short, and Joe's story is believable (KO copied his design). Some high res photos that show the fit and finish of the kit would be great.

The throttle body adapter that KO sold was soooooooooo bad. Can we see a pic of your adapter?

KO's:
http://www.318ti.org/gallery/data/529/medium/DSC01126.JPG

http://www.318ti.org/gallery/data/529/medium/DSC01121.JPG

http://www.318ti.org/gallery/data/529/medium/DSC01114.JPG

[Midnight Autoworks]

Me and Gus have done this in a record time of 8 hours from stock to charged, but assuming it takes an additional 2 hours for unexpected delays , We fly up in the morning , around 10 am we arrive, hopefully you pick us up from the airport, with our parts and our tools, we go to your house and start installing the kit right away, by 9 pm we will be done for sure. You drive the car lets say 4 hours , if you like it we settle up and we go to the airport for an earlier stand-by flight home, If you don't like it, we pull an all nighter and remove the kit , return your car to stock by noon the next day and we take a cab and catch our return flight home at 5pm.

[Blackie]

Joe, so you were with z3power which designed the original kit or was it Midnight that that designed the original kit? From various threads, you seemed to be associated with z3power, Midnight, and KO and the track records for all of them are not very encouraging!

If you were involved with the design and after so many years, the quality of craftsmanship still looks like sh*t! Looking at the pictures Dusten has posted, I would be very scare to put anything like that in my car, even if you give it away for free! Personally, I would rather save up another grand and get a proven SC from Downing.

Again andy, not here to arm wrestle,the web site is not done, But if you remember a company called z3power, that was me you can look it up, years before KO performance ever had mention of a 1.9l s/c. I am selling a kit on ebay, and I am offering this forum the one installed supercharger, my point is I am not in a hurry to sell you guys the kit before I prove the kit, So just wait, I am not doe yet, when I have posted everything and there is one forum member with this kit on his car, then Ill start advertising and selling this product and you guys can milk me for info. Also, I am not going to sell a single kit I dont already have in a box ready to ship. Build times are stupid and it just means the company a:didnt have the money to inventory everything, or B: started selling and never cought up.

[andyman7931]

Again andy, not here to arm wrestle,the web site is not done, But if you remember a company called z3power, that was me you can look it up, years before KO performance ever had mention of a 1.9l s/c. I am selling a kit on ebay, and I am offering this forum the one installed supercharger, my point is I am not in a hurry to sell you guys the kit before I prove the kit, So just wait, I am not doe yet, when I have posted everything and there is one forum member with this kit on his car, then Ill start advertising and selling this product and you guys can milk me for info. Also, I am not going to sell a single kit I dont already have in a box ready to ship. Build times are stupid and it just means the company a:didnt have the money to inventory everything, or B: started selling and never cought up.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to protect unsuspecting fellow board members here. I don't care that the website isn't done, What I did care about was references to previous poor quality products as well as inconsistincies that lead me to think that this is the same poor quality product with a different name on it. I'm new to the 4 cylinder bmw community so I hadn't heard of z3power, but a quick search online didn't boost my confidence any, infact it even raised more questions. If this product has been developed for years now under 3 different company names, why is the build still at a prototype stage?

So what is that kit on ebay? maybe someone here would bid on it if they knew what it was.

Also, where's the pictures you promised 2 days ago?

[AlaskaBlue]

You won't want to take it off.

I'm going to assume this kit works and makes power. Ultimately that is what you are after. Fit and finish is where KO feel short, and Joe's story is believable (KO copied his design). Some high res photos that show the fit and finish of the kit would be great.

The throttle body adapter that KO sold was soooooooooo bad. Can we see a pic of your adapter?



That "Kit" coughonelousycrappypiececough looks really familiar. Didn't some member buy that POS then have to send it back, but still got screwed on the refund?
:rolleyes:

[Midnight Autoworks]

Midnight Autoworks does not make or sell a throttle body adaptor; KO thinks they can make everything in that back yard.

The Midnight Autoworks supercharger kit is not a prototype.
The web site and online content is under construction, not the kit. We just want to have an inventory of at least 5 kits in boxes ready to ship.

Z3power was a car club in Ft.lauderdale that started the whole supercharger kit idea, but z3power was not a company , now Midnight Autoworks is some of the same original people from z3power, but Midnight Autoworks is a company.
Anyhow, I was going to wait for some polished manifolds to get back from the machine shop, but I am just going to go outside and take some pictures of a used one in the shop. The new ones will look the same as this one, were just offering the polished finish instead of the high temp paint. Give me like 10 minutes with the pictures.

[DustenT]

That "Kit" coughonelousycrappypiececough looks really familiar. Didn't some member buy that POS then have to send it back, but still got screwed on the refund?
:rolleyes:

Wait....it was you!!!

[L84THSKY]

I was gonna say the same thing:rolleyes:

Wait....it was you!!!

[Midnight Autoworks]

I worked their but I did not make that piece of crap, I wouldn't put that piece of **** on my car, and when it came to a refund the owner wouldn’t let me give him a full refund , ( I was the guy Andy dealt with over the phone), you guys must think I was running the whole show at KO, answering the phone, designing systems, welded manifolds, shipped the parts, packed up the kits, I was just there for phone sales and tech support. They got a welding machine to copy the Midnight Autoworks kit and no one there really knows how to weld and they were making **** from scratch (throttle body adapter) that they thought they could sell now that they had a machine.
Any one who is familiar with the m3 throttle body and the 96+1.9l throttle body will know that the 1.9l has the idle control valve bolted onto it and the m3 has a separate idle control valve, if you tried to use that adaptor in the picture to replace the throttle body with an m3 throttle body, you would have no place for your idle control valve!, your throttle cable would have to be extended to reach from the other side etc... end of story .

[Midnight Autoworks]

Here is the picture i took, I know I should have waited for the polished ones to come back but so you get the genral idea,
Click here http://www.eatonm3.com/new_page_1.htm

[Midnight Autoworks]

Heres a little video form the other night, Ill try to get some during the day.
www.eatonm3.com/video.htm

[TiPerformance]

Does anyone notice that it bears a great resemblence to the kit that L8 recieved? Same coating on the manifold, no pics of the welds, it looks almost identical other than the one port is opened up a little.

There are too many connections between KO, and midnight performance. Another question for Joe is that you claim that it was your design and KO stole it...... you must have know something was going down when they sold the kit to L8 and never got the kit from you.

I hate to say it but there are way too many inconsistancies here, you are selling your product at DASC pricing, but the overal cosmetics look like ****. Yes, the supercharger that you are using works, but it was originally designed to fit a Nissian hince the large adapter plate. I could see charging the prices that you do if you were using NEW eaton superchargers like DASC does.

Also who is doing your tuning, and what all are they doing? Are you using a piggyback computer or what?

[DustenT]

Notice the Check Engine Light is on in the video.

The manifold plate looks really thin. How do you keep it from warping when you weld it? More pics of the welds please.

Remember: a polished turd is still a turd!

[andyman7931]

Here is the picture i took, I know I should have waited for the polished ones to come back but so you get the genral idea,
Click here http://www.eatonm3.com/new_page_1.htm


that's a start. I'd like to see some pics like we have here in the notebook for the DASC install... http://www.318ti.org/notebook/dasc/index.htm Some high res installed pics as well as the other side of the manifold.

also, is it just me or does the link to the video not work?

[DustenT]

The video works, just give it a couple minutes to download. The video is of the inside of the Z3, it doesn't really show anything. It's too shaky to see the boost gauge, but I did notice the CEL.

Midnight - Keep in mind those of us that live in states that require emissions testing will not be able to pass with a check engine light on. BTW - The DASC is CARB certified. Will your kit pass a smog inspection? What kind of warranty do you offer?

**Copied from DASC's site**
Some final notes: The DowningAtlanta 1.8/1.9 liter BMW supercharger kit is undergoing certification to be 50 state legal by the EPA and California Air Resources Board. The supercharger unit comes with a full one year replacement warranty. Eaton blowers regularly exceed a life of 120,000 miles. No maintenance is required for our kit or for the supercharger itself.

[nuvolarossa]

also, is it just me or does the link to the video not work?
try this: http://www.eatonm3.com/Midnight_Autoworks_Forum_Pics_and_vid_011.mpg

[Midnight Autoworks]

Im Gus, I am the owner of the car. The check engine light is on because I removed the catalitic coverter.

[DustenT]

Im Gus, I am the owner of the car. The check engine light is on because I removed the catalitic coverter.

Then keep in mind the hp ratings that have been quoted are from a modified car.

[Midnight Autoworks]

Same coating? Black paint?

It is not a fair statement to say we are selling at D/A pricing, Our stage 1 matches Downing Atlanta performance.
Here is the pricing
System pricing include fully rebuilt and blade recoated superchargers.
For a brand new supercharger add $450 to your total.

Stage 1 $2,189

Stage 2 $2975

Stage 3 $3,499

For the same money as D/A we are selling you not only a base
bolt on supercharger kit, but
injectors,
air mass meter,
A dual nozzle water injection kit.
Software,
And our software , which is an ICM box (programmed injector control module) or “piggy back” , does not turn on the check engine light, the car in the picture doesn’t have any catalytic converters( you can probably hear that too). We are working with Carl from Active to finish a software flash for the stock Ecu and remove our injector control box. But even with our ICM, its still light years better then the fuel pressure regulator on stock injectors. In a DASC, you can throw a check engine light when you red line because the stock air mass meter goes over 5v.

[Midnight Autoworks]

Then keep in mind the hp ratings that have been quoted are from a modified car.


Gutting out the cats adds a couple HP extra at the most. The only other modification done to my car is the high performance clutch

[andyman7931]

Same coating? Black paint?

It is not a fair statement to say we are selling at D/A pricing, Our stage 1 matches Downing Atlanta performance.
Here is the pricing
System pricing include fully rebuilt and blade recoated superchargers.
For a brand new supercharger add $450 to your total.

Stage 1 $2,189



I'm interested in a stage 1 kit. 2189 + 450 = 2639. The DASC in group buy is 2850 (referenced here http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5757) That means your stage 1 kit is 7% cheaper than the DASC kit. I know their kit works well, the manifold looks great, and I can ask lots of people how theirs works. The cost savings at this point just aren't worth the risks of having a KO repeat.

I think at this point to keep my interest in this product, I'd need another person to have this installed, or see a significant price reduction. I checked on the z3power info and if I could get something sub $1k that bolts on, I'd possibly be interested. I've custom designed a junkyard twin turbo on an e30 m20 engine, I don't think this would be any harder even if I had to extensively tweak the setup, I just don't have the location to fabricate parts any more.

[Tyler]

Gutting out the cats adds a couple HP extra at the most. The only other modification done to my car is the high performance clutch

I had to laugh at this one.....

Gutting the car does not add HP,it will make it lighter so it's a little quicker but it does not give you hp.

[Midnight Autoworks]

I'm interested in a stage 1 kit. 2189 + 450 = 2639. The DASC in group buy is 2850 (referenced here http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5757) That means your stage 1 kit is 7% cheaper than the DASC kit.

Thats their group buy price, when I have 10 in stock I can run a group buy too.

[Midnight Autoworks]

I had to laugh at this one.....

Gutting the car does not add HP,it will make it lighter so it's a little quicker but it does not give you hp.

Read closer, he said gutting the cats, as in catalytic converter.

[andyman7931]

Thats their group buy price, when I have 10 in stock I can run a group buy too.


so when do you think you'll have 10 in stock and what do you think the price will be?

[Midnight Autoworks]

GB, lol..Its going to cost me about $18,000 to get 10 stage one kits in stock and does everyone want a new or rebuilt blower? And is there 10 people here that are interested? I mean theres not much room for me to back off in price and still pay the bills on a stage 1.
Stage 3 I could more then likely be able to run a sweet group buy.
Give me a show of hands of who would be down for a stage 3 kit for a gb price and Ill make you a group buy price.
Please state if your interested , what stage your interested in and weather or not you would be purchasing a new supercharger or rebuilt supercharger.

[weezer]

After the all the back and forth responses from us and "them"....one thing is very clear: they are selling superchargers with rebuilt compressors. It's probably more cost effective, but we all don't know the reliability issues on rebuilt blowers. This exercise, including the bad experience that L8 had with KO, shows us there is no short-cut and cheap way to get our cars more HP. DASC may be pricey, but proven record, warranties (because they have a reputation to uphold) and NEW, not rebuilt, compressors with their superchargers. So perhaps we should let the power of the people decide; let Midnight Autoworks prove to the public (car owners who do not subscribe to this forum) and hopefully their product lives up to their advertising. Ah, the free market economy......don't you just love it......:biggrin:

[DustenT]

After the all the back and forth responses from us and "them"....one thing is very clear: they are selling superchargers with rebuilt compressors. It's probably more cost effective, but we all don't know the reliability issues on rebuilt blowers. This exercise, including the bad experience that L8 had with KO, shows us there is no short-cut and cheap way to get our cars more HP. DASC may be pricey, but proven record, warranties (because they have a reputation to uphold) and NEW, not rebuilt, compressors with their superchargers. So perhaps we should let the power of the people decide; let Midnight Autoworks prove to the public (car owners who do not subscribe to this forum) and hopefully their product lives up to their advertising. Ah, the free market economy......don't you just love it......:biggrin:

+1

If someone wants to take this chance, please let everyone know how it goes!

[TiPerformance]

GB, lol..Its going to cost me about $18,000 to get 10 stage one kits in stock and does everyone want a new or rebuilt blower? And is there 10 people here that are interested? I mean theres not much room for me to back off in price and still pay the bills on a stage 1.
Stage 3 I could more then likely be able to run a sweet group buy.
Give me a show of hands of who would be down for a stage 3 kit for a gb price and Ill make you a group buy price.
Please state if your interested , what stage your interested in and weather or not you would be purchasing a new supercharger or rebuilt supercharger.

No one is going to be interested until you show a complete kit, that not only works, but looks good. Any monkey can go out and rig something up, but how well does it work and look?

Where is all the cost coming from on your kits?

We all know that if you look on ebay you can pick up the nissian frontier superchargers for $100-$150 and can be rebuilt for $100-$150 That is a max of $300 per supercharger....?

Any Dyno sheets to post?

[DustenT]

I don't like this.

[SDKmann]

I don't like this.

I second that. Its going to be a while before I put a charger in my car but when I do it wont be from this guy. My advice to L8 or anyone who is considering his offer to test instal the stage 3 is to not let this guy anywhere near your car. This sounds like this guy worked for KO and then after no one would buy from them because their chargers were crap they started midnight.

[Midnight Autoworks]

No one is going to be interested until you show a complete kit, that not only works, but looks good. Any monkey can go out and rig something up, but how well does it work and look?

Where is all the cost coming from on your kits?

We all know that if you look on ebay you can pick up the nissian frontier superchargers for $100-$150 and can be rebuilt for $100-$150 That is a max of $300 per supercharger....?

Any Dyno sheets to post?

The website has a complete working kit on it. The same car in the video. If you'd like I can post more pics.The kit has been on the car for over a year. I understand that the video is distorted, tonight we will take more video under the hood and while driving. Dyno charts will be on by the end of the week.

And yes you can buy a s/c on ebay for about $150 and REPLACE THE BEARINGS for another $150. Rebuilding (replacing bearings and blades)cost more than that.

[Midnight Autoworks]

I second that. Its going to be a while before I put a charger in my car but when I do it wont be from this guy. My advice to L8 or anyone who is considering his offer to test instal the stage 3 is to not let this guy anywhere near your car. This sounds like this guy worked for KO and then after no one would buy from them because their chargers were crap they started midnight.

Once again we are not affiliated with KO. John Paul (owner of KO) is in no way involved with Midnight Autoworks. http://sunbiz.org/scripts/ficidet.exe?action=DETREG&docnum=G05341900173&rdocnum=G05341900173 All we are trying to do is prove that OUR supercharger is reliable and powerful and is NOT the crap that L8 received.


Like we said earlier, we have offered a deal to let us install the kit for FREE and let you test it before you spend a penny. If you are unhappy we will remove the kit, restore your car to normal and go home without you spending a penny.

[SDKmann]

Im sticking with what I said until you have solid proof. And if L8 tests it and says its good Ill belive him but because of how it looks now I wouldnt let you near my car.

[1996 328ti]

Let's cool off this thread and let Midnight Autoworks come back when they are ready. Also please limit posts to only those of are strongly considering purchasing a MASC.

[SDKmann]

Im just saying that Midnight Auto sounds like a new player in an old scam. Id feel bad if I didnt point that out and someone got ripped off again.

[96cali]

Let's cool off this thread and let Midnight Autoworks come back when they are ready. Also please limit posts to only those of are strongly considering purchasing a MASC.

Werd. Let some people check out their setup in person, report to us and L8 and let them set up a rondezvouz. Anyone close to L8 that can offer a second expert opinion? J!m maybe? :confused:

[Dredder]

Let's cool off this thread and let Midnight Autoworks come back when they are ready. Also please limit posts to only those of are strongly considering purchasing a MASC.
I totally understand your concern that you don’t want this thread to get out of control. You got to remember the frustrations when one of our member (L8) got screwed. When an unknown company wants our support, when they promise something tomorrow then the need to provide as promised. Right now they (ma) are under the microscope. Let the nitpicking begin

[1996 328ti]

I totally understand your concern that you don’t want this thread to get out of control. I just don't think it serves any purpose for Midnight Autoworks to have to reply to each and every post. I say give them a few days. We already seen what these posts did to KO's reputation. As soon as someone mentioned KO's supercharger they were told to come here. I just don't want to see 20 pages of posts until there is something to show for it.

[Dredder]

Ma does not need to respond to every post but they need to provide what they promise to do. When they say they are going (for example) to post pics of high res manifold they need to do it as promised. Thats good business.




I did google MA and this is what I came up with
http://test.dynamictransmedia.com/images/ma.jpgI thought they say thier company has around for over 3 yrs

[Bran.C]

Ok, I lurk around bimmerforums and I came across this thread while digging for info on this company.

I had all but decided to give up on the idea of supercharging my '96 z3. I was going with Downing Atlanta and ofcourse read into KO. I thought I was set to wait and just trade up to start with a bigger powerplant.

Anyway, I talked with Joe from MA on the phone about an hour ago. Read around a bit. I've decided to become the guinea pig and I'm willing to purchase the ebay kit and see how it works out.

I'll be broke for a bit(tuition) but talking with Joe made me feel more comfortable. No, they're not the size of Downing and it's a gamble, but I felt like putting some faith in them. I'll give a run down of how it goes in the coming days.

Only thing I'm curious about is why it comes with #30 injectors rather thatn 42. Maybe I can get him to toss them in.

[L84THSKY]

From one prior guinea pig to another, good luck.


Ok, I lurk around bimmerforums and I came across this thread while digging for info on this company.

I had all but decided to give up on the idea of supercharging my '96 z3. I was going with Downing Atlanta and ofcourse read into KO. I thought I was set to wait and just trade up to start with a bigger powerplant.

Anyway, I talked with Joe from MA on the phone about an hour ago. Read around a bit. I've decided to become the guinea pig and I'm willing to purchase the ebay kit and see how it works out.

I'll be broke for a bit(tuition) but talking with Joe made me feel more comfortable. No, they're not the size of Downing and it's a gamble, but I felt like putting some faith in them. I'll give a run down of how it goes in the coming days.

Only thing I'm curious about is why it comes with #30 injectors rather thatn 42. Maybe I can get him to toss them in.

[96cali]

Cool- where are you located?

Ok, I lurk around bimmerforums and I came across this thread while digging for info on this company.

I had all but decided to give up on the idea of supercharging my '96 z3. I was going with Downing Atlanta and ofcourse read into KO. I thought I was set to wait and just trade up to start with a bigger powerplant.

Anyway, I talked with Joe from MA on the phone about an hour ago. Read around a bit. I've decided to become the guinea pig and I'm willing to purchase the ebay kit and see how it works out.

I'll be broke for a bit(tuition) but talking with Joe made me feel more comfortable. No, they're not the size of Downing and it's a gamble, but I felt like putting some faith in them. I'll give a run down of how it goes in the coming days.

Only thing I'm curious about is why it comes with #30 injectors rather thatn 42. Maybe I can get him to toss them in.

[Bran.C]

Hey guys, I'm coming from Memphis, Tn.

[DustenT]

Only thing I'm curious about is why it comes with #30 injectors rather thatn 42. Maybe I can get him to toss them in.

Email from Joe to me about stage 2 and 3 kits:

What we have is a stage 2 kit that runs 9 psi, on a 3.25" pulley using 30
lbs injectors , 3" hfm and software . Our stage 3 kit runs 10-11 psi. with
a 3.1" pulley and uses 42lbs injectors, 3" hfm, water injection, and
software.

stage 2 : 3.25" pulley, 30lbs injectors,3" hfm, software = $945
stage 3 - 3.1" pulley, 42lbs injectors,3" hfm, software, spark plugs,
water injection kit -$1,689

*********second email**************************

We have a plug and play ICM (injector controll modual) that we program and use for our stage 2 kit.
We out source our tuning from Carl at Active Autoworks for our stage 3 kit instead of the ICM .

Apparently they use Active Autowerks to program their stage 3. Active Autowerks doesn't sell ANY SOFTWARE for 4 cylinder BMWs. I am following up with Active Autowerks as I thought TT was the only tuner of M44 ECUs. AA assured me that they do not program software for 4 cylinder BMWs. Maybe Carl works on the side?

[AlaskaBlue]

I am ready to see some more videos, pics, and etc. I just want emperical evidence of how well this kit performs. If it is as good as promised it benefits us and them. I hope this kit turns out well. Best of luck to Midnight Autoworks, Joe, and Gus. Please more videos and pics soon. That is half of the way to win us over.

[Bran.C]

I agree. I'm hoping for the best for these guys. If you take the time and effort required to design and implement a modification like this and the performance is there to backup the work, then there's no reason this kit shouldn't gain a decent user base with positive experiences.

Here's hopin'

[Midnight Autoworks]

We will do our absolute best to deliver a kit that you will enjoy.
Brian I apreciate you taking a chance on our system, we wont let you down, and if no one else bids you'll get a sweet deal.
As for pictures, I took some more of the other side of the manifold, as soon as I get the polished ones back Ill be posting more pictures.
link for pics:
www.eatonm3.com/pictures.htm

[aceyx]

You can't be serious.

In my opinion, that's the exact same manifold L8 returned.
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showpost.php?p=40137&postcount=31

PLEASE MAKE YOUR OWN ANALYSIS:
Line up the bolt holes, and note the striations in the metal, not to mention the once-square plate.

[weezer]

It's a different manifold than the one KO sent to L8. MA's manifold is made to look slightly better and it actually shows four (4) ports.
However, compared to the built quality to DASC's, I still wouldn't put that on any car that has been designed by engineers and took years to develop.
DASC die-cast their manifolds. The least these guys can do at least replicate or even use a salvaged OEM and somehow build a bracket for the compressor. Does this sound a little more realistic?
Remember, when Weber carburetors were the rage....oh some 20-25 yrs ago.....aftermarket companies actually fabricate brackets to accommodate the carbs.
The pics of those manifolds, while "better looking" than KO's, still look awful. No offense to MA, but shop welding that results in that quality of a product should not be considered a good product. Shop welding and machining have been known to crack under high stress and we are talking about our cars that we pay with our hard earned money!!!
318tis are not Rabbit Gtis of old, where even running on a leaky manifold or blown fuel injection system or a dead catalytic converter, etc it will still run until it eventually dies......50K miles later.
Just be really careful what we put into our well designed and engineered cars, we only buy well proven suspension parts (Bilstein, Koni, H&R, Eibach) and we're only content on buying engine parts that were designed and engineered at somebody's backyard!?!?!?

[L84THSKY]

The 4 ports are visible, and the outer flange is cut to match the supercharger. Other than that the quality of this manifold is just as crappy as the one KO sent me.

I'm beginning to wonder, who copied who?




You can't be serious.

In my opinion, that's the exact same manifold L8 returned.
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showpost.php?p=40137&postcount=31

PLEASE MAKE YOUR OWN ANALYSIS:
Line up the bolt holes, and note the striations in the metal, not to mention the once-square plate.

[andyman7931]

I hope that this is just a prototype manifold. If I were in the business of making this kit, I'd start with prototype welded manifolds, maybe 2 or 3 of them, depends on how much testing I need to do, then pay to get a casting made. This costs quite a bit upfront, but production costs go down afterwards, so it would depend on how many are made.

I'm not turned off by these pics, just would want a significant price reduction if I'm running a prototype kit. There's a $ value to me in having a manifold that I'd possibly have to remove and repair. Currently I'm interested in the stage 1 kit, but there's not a price advantage enough over the DASC to warrant a prototype style kit. I guess I could even make one of similar quality myself if I spend enough time in the machine shop @ work.

[L84THSKY]

You are still new to this forum, and I'm sure more eager than most to believe MA.

The rest of us have seen the damage, and are more likely to just buy the DASC when the time arrives.

The truth is I don't car as much whether I get 50 more horsepower or 75, I just want quality and reliability to be unquestionable.

I hope that this is just a prototype manifold. If I were in the business of making this kit, I'd start with prototype welded manifolds, maybe 2 or 3 of them, depends on how much testing I need to do, then pay to get a casting made. This costs quite a bit upfront, but production costs go down afterwards, so it would depend on how many are made.

I'm not turned off by these pics, just would want a significant price reduction if I'm running a prototype kit. There's a $ value to me in having a manifold that I'd possibly have to remove and repair. Currently I'm interested in the stage 1 kit, but there's not a price advantage enough over the DASC to warrant a prototype style kit. I guess I could even make one of similar quality myself if I spend enough time in the machine shop @ work.

[Midnight Autoworks]

Theres only so many ways this can be done, The welds on this kit are tig instead of mig and they are done at a proper machine shop that does aluminum welding for tons of other car parts, they welded the manifolds for all the cars we have done before. Out of all the parts in the s/c system the manifold has NEVER been an issue, the kind of heat and pressure that it takes to distroy these welds just does not exesist under the hood of our cars, we have never had a crack, or a leak, ever. The manifold is actualy partialy responsible for our power increase, it has longer runers than a dasc and has a greater plenum area once the supercharger is attached. But again, if there is one part that is an issue to you about the manifold astheticly, please let us know we can change it for your kit, if you would like all welds to be brushed to a smooth finish, or all welds to just be polished but visiable. I am so confidant in the manifold that if ever a customer had a problem with the manifold cracking or anything of that sort, I would refund them there money and they can keep the kit.. Our manifolds are not going to break.

[DustenT]

BAN

[Dredder]

BAN

:biggrin: give them a break. they have already found a guinea pig

[Midnight Autoworks]

I would also like to bring to every ones attention that the picture KO uses on their site (one of our sample kits), has one of our manifolds in it, that manifold that they called their "gen1" works just fine except for the fact that it only fits the z3's, the manifold in our pictures fits both cars. The reasoning for the design in our manifold is as follows:

(All measurements done with the same car and using the same calibrated map sensor)

We tested the dasc at 9.6 psi , it took a 3.25 pulley to achieve this, those of you who are familiar with the concept of a displacement blower will know that the blower will push x amount of cfm at x rpm consistently, the 3rd factor in the equation is resistance (like when you see a boost drop after removing your cats).
Now, on our longer tube manifold (the one ko put on their site) comprised of a modified stock manifold and a plate adaptor we ran the same test and we saw 9.8 psi with a 3.25 " pulley, the only change was we gained a few extra hp over the dasc on the lower end of the rev range but dropped a few at the top (probably because the stock manifold has 12" runners).
Now with the manifold we just posted in our pictures, we are seeing 8.9 psi with a 3.25" pulley, and 9.2psi with a 3.2" pulley and the air mass meter reads a higher voltage point-for-point then the dasc with the same pulley, (not to mention the hp increase, but you guys don’t care about more hp), . This is due to the larger plenum, the tapering** runners and greater direct surface area with the blowers discharge port.
The goal with supercharging or at least designing a supercharger manifold, is to run the greatest volume of air with the lowest pressure possible. More boost pressure alone doesn’t make power, you can heat up the air in a sealed container and see pressure but it’s the same amount of air, more cubic feet of air makes more power.
** Tapering=the runner starts at a larger diameter inside of the manifold at the plenum and gradually reduces in size to match the exact foot print of the port on the cylinder head.

[L84THSKY]

Show me a manifold that would pass quality control and design at any reputable aftermarket performance shop. That is any shop other than yours or KO Performance.


I would also like to bring to every ones attention that the picture KO uses on their site (one of our sample kits), has one of our manifolds in it, that manifold that they called their "gen1" works just fine except for the fact that it only fits the z3's, the manifold in our pictures fits both cars. The reasoning for the design in our manifold is as follows:

(All measurements done with the same car and using the same calibrated map sensor)

We tested the dasc at 9.6 psi , it took a 3.25 pulley to achieve this, those of you who are familiar with the concept of a displacement blower will know that the blower will push x amount of cfm at x rpm consistently, the 3rd factor in the equation is resistance (like when you see a boost drop after removing your cats).
Now, on our longer tube manifold (the one ko put on their site) comprised of a modified stock manifold and a plate adaptor we ran the same test and we saw 9.8 psi with a 3.25 " pulley, the only change was we gained a few extra hp over the dasc on the lower end of the rev range but dropped a few at the top (probably because the stock manifold has 12" runners).
Now with the manifold we just posted in our pictures, we are seeing 8.9 psi with a 3.25" pulley, and 9.2psi with a 3.2" pulley and the air mass meter reads a higher voltage point-for-point then the dasc with the same pulley, (not to mention the hp increase, but you guys don’t care about more hp), . This is due to the larger plenum, the tapering** runners and greater direct surface area with the blowers discharge port.
The goal with supercharging or at least designing a supercharger manifold, is to run the greatest volume of air with the lowest pressure possible. More boost pressure alone doesn’t make power, you can heat up the air in a sealed container and see pressure but it’s the same amount of air, more cubic feet of air makes more power.
** Tapering=the runner starts at a larger diameter inside of the manifold at the plenum and gradually reduces in size to match the exact foot print of the port on the cylinder head.

[aceyx]

Nobody else sees the similarities?

I'm not saying exact exact, but that it's a modified version of the same (original material) of the one L8 returned.

Should I spell it out for people?

[Midnight Autoworks]

Nobody else sees the similarities?

I'm not saying exact exact, but that it's a modified version of the same (original material) of the one L8 returned.

Should I spell it out for people?

They DID try to copy it, like I said, theres only so many ways this can be done, I woudnt be surprised that they were using the same lower section, the lower section that acomodates the injectors and fuel rail is a casted part.
From the pictures, they f#$%$ up the upper section, the part thats fabricated from scratch.

[AlaskaBlue]

I anxiously await more pictures and videos.

[SDKmann]

Nobody else sees the similarities?

I'm not saying exact exact, but that it's a modified version of the same (original material) of the one L8 returned.

Should I spell it out for people?

Yeah I see it. This sounds like MA is really KO under a different name. If MA is really telling the truth then it sucks for them that KO destroyed their name, but at this point it sounds like the same company.

[cali-ti]

one achronym ... DASC. safe, proven, reliable.

this all sounds way too familiar for me to even invest my time in listening any more.

[Midnight Autoworks]

What exactly are you guys looking for, I suppose will never get over the KO shadow, Maybe I can break this down for you. When you take your product to a middle man company like KO that is supposed to market and sell your product, you give them EVERYTHING you have so they can represent your system, you give them packing lists, display models, working units for pictures, you let them take your show-off car for all the pictures and numbers so they con market your system, so they look just like you when it comes to the customers view. We now know that along with all these things you need to have a VERY specific contract stating that they can in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM make their own model of your system , copy it, duplicate it , in so many words. A copy right helps but with these kind of things they can make a few small changes and call it a different system (notice they never offered any sort of software, that’s a little harder to copy). You can take it or leave it, but we are telling the truth, and we do understand you skepticism, but please hold your fire until the first guy at least bolts his on. Were not here to rip anyone off, you all know where we live (it’s on the business license), we accept paypal and the buyers protection policy, and we hope to become a trusted name in the BMW 4cyl community. I know how many guys out there that want to supercharge their car, but the DASC is just out of reach, we are providing a system that is affordable for the same if not more performance, I can talk until I am blue in the face about the reliability and track testing of our system but only time will prove that to you, so please allow another competitor into the market so that you actually have options when its time to make more power out of your 4cyl potential monster.

[1996 328ti]

Which supercharger was this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33741&item=8020573942)?
Be nice to talk with the guy.

[Bran.C]

the pictures in that auction are from the white z in that video a few posts back.

[DustenT]

so they con market your system

Con market, that sounds right.

[Midnight Autoworks]

the pictures in that auction are from the white z in that video a few posts back.

Yes!

[TiPerformance]

Which supercharger was this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33741&item=8020573942)?
Be nice to talk with the guy.

Response to Steven's question
the pictures in that auction are from the white z in that video a few posts back.

Response to Brian's question from Joe himself

Yes!


Remeber this quote anyone?

The website has a complete working kit on it. The same car in the video. If you'd like I can post more pics.The kit has been on the car for over a year. I understand that the video is distorted, tonight we will take more video under the hood and while driving. Dyno charts will be on by the end of the week.

Joe Lies Again..... something new?.... I think not

Joe now please tell us, how could that supercharger be on the car in the video for over a year when you just sold the kit on ebay on "Ended: Dec-13-05 00:03:18 PST" Your stories just aren't panning out, you again have a reputation for getting caught up in lies. I don't know if it is just that you think people are stupid and you are slick, but there is always someone out there that is smarter than you are. :wink:

Don't even try to say that screen name is't yours because you posted up on this site the following a few days ago, and guess what...... Same Ebay User Name. http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8454

Ebay link http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bmw-318-Eaton-roots-Supercharger-kit-1-9l-z3-204-rwhp_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33741QQitemZ8028331926QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


Do we need to point out more inconsistancies Joe?

[AlaskaBlue]

I can talk until I am blue in the face about the reliability and track testing of our system but only time will prove that to you, so please allow another competitor into the market so that you actually have options when its time to make more power out of your 4cyl potential monster.

The market is free, but we need empirical evidence so that you can gain the credibility that you want. As the old saying goes, a picture or dyno sheet is worth a thousand words. A video is worth probably a million words. Get some outside footage of the car running, get a video of the car on the dyno, or get some footage of of the engine running. Those things would help your case more than posting a few words. Like I said before I would even host your videos and pictures so that people on here can view them.

[Midnight Autoworks]

Response to Steven's question


Response to Brian's question from Joe himself




Remeber this quote anyone?



Joe Lies Again..... something new?.... I think not

Joe now please tell us, how could that supercharger be on the car in the video for over a year when you just sold the kit on ebay on "Ended: Dec-13-05 00:03:18 PST" Your stories just aren't panning out, you again have a reputation for getting caught up in lies. I don't know if it is just that you think people are stupid and you are slick, but there is always someone out there that is smarter than you are. :wink:

Don't even try to say that screen name is't yours because you posted up on this site the following a few days ago, and guess what...... Same Ebay User Name. http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8454

Ebay link http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bmw-318-Eaton-roots-Supercharger-kit-1-9l-z3-204-rwhp_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33741QQitemZ8028331926QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


Do we need to point out more inconsistancies Joe?
Think harder man, dont be an old lady, the installed pictures on the CURRENT ebay listing are of the same car in the video. the old ebay listing sold to Juan in tampa and he hast installed it yet.

[1996 328ti]

You know something, this thread is over.
There are several people on this list that sell products and I have no problem with that since they also contribute to the community.
I see nothing being contributed here.

I suggest becoming a sponsor on one the larger induction forums to discuss your project further. This board is for ti enthusiasts. There are many more 1.9 Z3s out there that would also be interested.

So everyone else, please do not start a new thread on this topic.
MA, when you have something to show us, come back.

Thank you all.

Edit: This thread will be unlocked when Joe has something to present.

[Midnight Autoworks]

Here is the video of the dyno last night http://www.eatonm3.com/dyno1_24_06.wmv
Here is the dyno resultshttp://www.eatonm3.com/dynopic.htm
Here is a npic of our manifold
http://www.eatonm3.com/midnightmanifold.jpg
And one more picture http://www.eatonm3.com/midnightkit12.jpg
And here is the link to our picture gallary http://www.eatonm3.com/318_supercharger_pictures.htm

[HuGo]

so how much HP would it gain on a stock 140hp TI? And how much would your S/C cost?

[Midnight Autoworks]

so how much HP would it gain on a stock 140hp TI? And how much would your S/C cost?
You have the M44 motor in your car, which makes 119 rear wheel hp, the car in the dyno (97 Z3) also has the M44 motor and is now making 212 rear wheel hp. So you would gain 93 rear wheel HP. The complete kit is $3,499 and add $387 for the clutch you need to hold the power.

[1rstbmw!]

So you need a manual transmission for this kit? The complete kit is $3,499 and add $387 for the clutch you need to hold the HP power.

[Midnight Autoworks]

Honestly I dont recomend the stage 3 for an automatic, although Iv never tried it. I know the stage 2 works fine on the auto. Its just that one point between gears when you either back off for a secound and let it shift or you stay on the gas , thats when the stage 3 may be an issue for an auto. But I cant really say yes or no, because I havnt tried it yet, all the stage 3 installs I'v ever had were on 5 speeds.

[m-technik_ti]

So you need a manual transmission for this kit? The complete kit is $3,499 and add $387 for the clutch you need to hold the HP power.

To keep your auto tranny with a supercharger wouldn’t be a good idea anyway. Generally, S/C's generate their peak power within mid-to high RPMs, and with an automatic, RPMs are difficult to maintain, as the transmission shifts to keep revs low, making it difficult to maintain and regulate boost pressure.

[HuGo]

You have the M44 motor in your car, which makes 119 rear wheel hp, the car in the dyno (97 Z3) also has the M44 motor and is now making 212 rear wheel hp. So you would gain 93 rear wheel HP. The complete kit is $3,499 and add $387 for the clutch you need to hold the power.

so this supercharger we speaking off will give me 93 hp?? Was the S/C the only thing installed to get the 93 extra, no other mods? After installed, well i still be able to pass smog? So lets see, if i WERE to buy this, all i need is clutch right. I wont need anything else, the S/C will come with everything. I wouldnt have to upgrade anything else right. How much HP does the dasc give, does it also give 93?

[Midnight Autoworks]

DASC gives you 169 rear wheel hp as it comes out of the box. Look at the dyno section on this forum.

[SDKmann]

Those new pics look better. Has anyone asked to try the charger yet?

[Midnight Autoworks]

so this supercharger we speaking off will give me 93 hp?? Was the S/C the only thing installed to get the 93 extra, no other mods? After installed, well i still be able to pass smog? So lets see, if i WERE to buy this, all i need is clutch right. I wont need anything else, the S/C will come with everything. I wouldnt have to upgrade anything else right. How much HP does the dasc give, does it also give 93?

The Z3 Is stock, the only other mod done to the car besides the clutch is the gutted catalytic converter which will give at the most 2 rwhp. The S/C comes with everything you need to convert your car into an M3 killer.
DASC max RWHP=169 (43HP difference)

[HuGo]

The Z3 Is stock, the only other mod done to the car besides the clutch is the gutted catalytic converter which will give at the most 2 rwhp. The S/C comes with everything you need to convert your car into an M3 killer.
DASC max RWHP=169 (43HP difference)

so dasc gives 43 hp and ur S/C gives 93 hp more?

[AlaskaBlue]

The DASC would give 43 horsepower more on a stock ti and a MASC would give 93 more than stock. Those are all relative measures. You may or may not get those exact hp ratings.

[dodj]

I can't look at the midnight autowerks website at work.
But what do some of the more skeptical members have to say now that they have come up with the video and pics???

how does it look/compare to the dasc, and the KO disaster?

[HuGo]

The DASC would give 43 horsepower more on a stock ti and a MASC would give 93 more than stock. Those are all relative measures. You may or may not get those exact hp ratings.

so dasc gives 43 on stock ti, and masc gives 93 more on a stock ti?? why is it that the masc gives more?

cuz if dasc is only gonna give 43, but the masc is gonna give 93, then hello, i would get the masc *if it really works* Kinda both in same price range.

And if its really 93 more, then i wont get the m3 motor no more and save me a few thousand.

[stormos]

buy it then ;)

[96cali]

so dasc gives 43 on stock ti, and masc gives 93 more on a stock ti?? why is it that the masc gives more?

cuz if dasc is only gonna give 43, but the masc is gonna give 93, then hello, i would get the masc *if it really works* Kinda both in same price range.

And if its really 93 more, then i wont get the m3 motor no more and save me a few thousand.

Stage 3 MASC = 93hp increase according to MA
Dasc w/ no add'l software, injectors, pulleys, etc = 43hp increase.

I would point out that bimmer95's ti pulled 196hp w/ Dasc, exhaust and lw fly, etc IIRC.

[AlaskaBlue]

Stage 3 MASC = 93hp increase according to MA
Dasc w/ no add'l software, injectors, pulleys, etc = 43hp increase.

I would point out that bimmer95's ti pulled 196hp w/ Dasc, exhaust and lw fly, etc IIRC.

It also had NickG's stage III tuning I think. That alone costs 800 some dollars.

[DustenT]

It also had NickG's stage III tuning I think. That alone costs 800 some dollars.

NickG's software is expensive, but it eliminates some very key problem areas. It eliminated the injector breather tube, the DISCA (sp?) valve and the FMU rising rate fuel pressure regulator(RRFPR). Adding injectors to a FI system or running a RRFPR is the economical way to add fuel, a properly tuned ECU with the correct size injectors ensures an even mixture and proper combustion.

[Tyler]

I'd be afraid to do the stage 3 from MA,i think over a short period of time it will put too much stress on the engine and afraid something will blow. I wanted a s/c at one point but i drive 3,000 miles a month give or take a little and really don't think it will work out to my benefit. I registered my car in RI in november 04 with about 60k on it and right now i got 94k on it.

[96cali]

It also had NickG's stage III tuning I think. That alone costs 800 some dollars.

That was before the software. After the Nick G. software it was around 215. Add it all up though and it was more than a 6cyl swap.

[cali-ti]

i don't see that the price of the exhaust can be factored in since you have to do up a new exhaust on a 6 swap as well.

DASC = $3500 + $1000 for a LTW flywheel+clutch = $4500. considering all the stuff you need for a 6 swap, i think it's still cheaper. keep in mind you can keep your stock suspension and rear diff which i'm not sure i'd do with a 6.

NickG's stage 3 likely gets it a little closer in cost: ~$800 + HFM (got one for $70) and intake (don't know yet).

certainly the cost of the 6 swap has been getting cheaper and cheaper while the DASC stays about the same :(

just my 2 cents :)

[Midnight Autoworks]

I'd be afraid to do the stage 3 from MA,i think over a short period of time it will put too much stress on the engine and afraid something will blow. I wanted a s/c at one point but i drive 3,000 miles a month give or take a little and really don't think it will work out to my benefit. I registered my car in RI in november 04 with about 60k on it and right now i got 94k on it.

My Z3 ( the one in the video) has had the stage three package for about 6 months now and before that it had the stage 2 package for well over a year. I have put about 30k miles since I first installed the S/C and its still running hard, and I havent ran into any problems. My car is the project car for MA so its been under more stress than any other car will endure with this S/C

Gus

[AlaskaBlue]

Can you post up some more videos of the car?

[cali-ti]

My Z3 ( the one in the video) has had the stage three package for about 6 months now and before that it had the stage 2 package for well over a year. I have put about 30k miles since I first installed the S/C and its still running hard, and I havent ran into any problems. My car is the project car for MA so its been under more stress than any other car will endure with this S/C
so you've tracked it and auto-x'd it how many times since the install? what range of temperatures and such has it been through (alaska winters through phoenix in summer)?

[96cali]

true- and if your smart and wait for group buys it's even lower. BTW notice I didn't say M3 swap. A 32x swap could be comparable.

i don't see that the price of the exhaust can be factored in since you have to do up a new exhaust on a 6 swap as well.

DASC = $3500 + $1000 for a LTW flywheel+clutch = $4500. considering all the stuff you need for a 6 swap, i think it's still cheaper. keep in mind you can keep your stock suspension and rear diff which i'm not sure i'd do with a 6.

NickG's stage 3 likely gets it a little closer in cost: ~$800 + HFM (got one for $70) and intake (don't know yet).

certainly the cost of the 6 swap has been getting cheaper and cheaper while the DASC stays about the same :(

just my 2 cents :)

[Midnight Autoworks]

More video coming tonight!0-100mph race between:
3.2l M roadster with M50 manifold, LW-flywheel, CAIS and exhaust.
vs.
1.9l z3 with Midnight autoworks stage 3 supercharger kit, no cats.

[HuGo]

More video coming tonight!0-100mph race between:
3.2l M roadster with M50 manifold, LW-flywheel, CAIS and exhaust.
vs.
1.9l z3 with Midnight autoworks stage 3 supercharger kit, no cats.

not to be mean but, cant you test ur equipments on a TI being that we all own TI's here.

[Tyler]

My Z3 ( the one in the video) has had the stage three package for about 6 months now and before that it had the stage 2 package for well over a year. I have put about 30k miles since I first installed the S/C and its still running hard, and I havent ran into any problems. My car is the project car for MA so its been under more stress than any other car will endure with this S/C

Gus


If i'm driving 3k miles on the highway a month and probally only 25 city miles i really don't need a s/c. When i 1st got my car 5yrs ago yeah but with all mydriving now i really don't need it,it's fast enough for me on the highway. I want my engine to last another 200k miles and don't want to add something that will reduce that. If i didn't do that much driving i might get one but i'd rather waste my money on something else to do to my ti.

[HuGo]

If i'm driving 3k miles on the highway a month and probally only 25 city miles i really don't need a s/c. When i 1st got my car 5yrs ago yeah but with all mydriving now i really don't need it,it's fast enough for me on the highway. I want my engine to last another 200k miles and don't want to add something that will reduce that. If i didn't do that much driving i might get one but i'd rather waste my money on something else to do to my ti.

how is it that the S/C wears out the engine?? So you say it can last you another 200k, with the S/C how long would it last, just another 100k?

[andyman7931]

how is it that the S/C wears out the engine?? So you say it can last you another 200k, with the S/C how long would it last, just another 100k?

any performance part can cause extra wear on an engine, especially a supercharger or turbocharger. The extra heat and power generated can weaken things quicker than designed. If there wasn't a downside to cramming more air and fuel into engines, there wouldn't be any large displacement engines around.

[Midnight Autoworks]

any performance part can cause extra wear on an engine, especially a supercharger or turbocharger. The extra heat and power generated can weaken things quicker than designed. If there wasn't a downside to cramming more air and fuel into engines, there wouldn't be any large displacement engines around.
Well said

[Tyler]

how is it that the S/C wears out the engine?? So you say it can last you another 200k, with the S/C how long would it last, just another 100k?

Depends on how you drive your car. Lets say we both have ti's with exactly 100k on it and you put a s/c on it and i don't. I would guarantee that my car will live longer than yours.

[HuGo]

any performance part can cause extra wear on an engine, especially a supercharger or turbocharger. The extra heat and power generated can weaken things quicker than designed. If there wasn't a downside to cramming more air and fuel into engines, there wouldn't be any large displacement engines around.

thank you, see why cant you just help me like that.

[madfronter]

If i'm driving 3k miles on the highway a month and probally only 25 city miles i really don't need a s/c. When i 1st got my car 5yrs ago yeah but with all mydriving now i really don't need it,it's fast enough for me on the highway. I want my engine to last another 200k miles and don't want to add something that will reduce that. If i didn't do that much driving i might get one but i'd rather waste my money on something else to do to my ti.

I have been having the same thought as you lately. I have to be more realistic with my car now that it has 187,000 miles on it and I don't want to stress it the F out. I drive about 800-900 mile per week. When I first got my car and had the money I would have done the super charger but now with the amount of miles on my car and the fact I want to make it last at least another 100k its not going to happen. The only way I would do it is if I rebuilt the engine first or bought a new engine. If I bought a new engine it would most likely be the Bavarian Engine Exchanges performance engine and I don't think I would SC that.

[Midnight Autoworks]

not to be mean but, cant you test ur equipments on a TI being that we all own TI's here.
I just shipped a kit out to a 318 guy ,Tu quach, he had never heard of this site before so I told him about it , hopefully he can post pics and so on.

But right now, I have to go to the race(Mroadster vs. supercharged 1.9l), were meeting up at 6:30-7ish on okechobee rd. just west of the turn pike, if any one here is in the Miami area and wants to come call me (954)-696-7333.

[Tyler]

I have been having the same thought as you lately. I have to be more realistic with my car now that it has 187,000 miles on it and I don't want to stress it the F out. I drive about 800-900 mile per week. When I first got my car and had the money I would have done the super charger but now with the amount of miles on my car and the fact I want to make it last at least another 100k its not going to happen. The only way I would do it is if I rebuilt the engine first or bought a new engine. If I bought a new engine it would most likely be the Bavarian Engine Exchanges performance engine and I don't think I would SC that.


If i get a new engine i'd probally look into this acs 2.1L engine and put a custom s/c or turbo on it...

http://www.acschnitzer.com/englisch/produkte/pdf/Motoren_E36_englisch.pdf

[madfronter]

If i get a new engine i'd probally look into this acs 2.1L engine and put a custom s/c or turbo on it...

http://www.acschnitzer.com/englisch/produkte/pdf/Motoren_E36_englisch.pdf

That looks really nice on the chart. Do you know how much that engine is?

[Tyler]

That looks really nice on the chart. Do you know how much that engine is?


No i don't have a clue. I came across it last week and i know knowbody has posted it on here before. But whenever my engine does decide to go i would look into this instead of the bavarian engine exchange site. I'll shoot them an email at somepoint and post up the price.

[HuGo]

I just shipped a kit out to a 318 guy ,Tu quach, he had never heard of this site before so I told him about it , hopefully he can post pics and so on.

But right now, I have to go to the race(Mroadster vs. supercharged 1.9l), were meeting up at 6:30-7ish on okechobee rd. just west of the turn pike, if any one here is in the Miami area and wants to come call me (954)-696-7333.

stage 3?

[DustenT]

If i get a new engine i'd probally look into this acs 2.1L engine and put a custom s/c or turbo on it...

http://www.acschnitzer.com/englisch/produkte/pdf/Motoren_E36_englisch.pdf

It looks like that 2.1L requires 98 octance. You'd probably have to mix your own gas, and make friends with people at the airport so you could buy avaition fuel.

[cali-ti]

why don't we ask H3_2.1-ti? he has a 2.1 (hartge).

[Tyler]

I'm just looking into it. I really don't plan on buying a new engine anytime soon. I just came across this and thought it was interesting since i haven't seen it posted before.

[J!m]

Tyler:

I have a nice engine (and I'm reasonably local) if you need one...

[cali-ti]

But right now, I have to go to the race(Mroadster vs. supercharged 1.9l), were meeting up at 6:30-7ish on okechobee rd. just west of the turn pike, if any one here is in the Miami area and wants to come call me (954)-696-7333.
so .... what happened?

[Tyler]

so .... what happened?


Good call there cali-ti.

[HuGo]

so .... what happened?

+2

[Midnight Autoworks]

I thought you would never ask, Gus is loading up the video tonight to the server so you can see what happened (It was sweet race), he has a video of the first race from in the car and another video of the secound race from the finish line) As soon as its uploaded Ill post the link here. Ill have it before midnight for sure though.

[Midnight Autoworks]

Click here for the video,

http://www.eatonm3.com/z3%20race.wmv

[mpower1226]

Click here for the video,

http://www.eatonm3.com/z3%20race.wmv
what about m42?

[HuGo]

that video was crap. Man i want to point this out, no one is really trusting you right now as u can see. You need to earn that trust back, so give us the best video u can get and show us during day time. Go 2 a track so we can also get 1/4 time. I mean im just saying, it could better. Your selling 3k+ parts here, we have to be able to trust. Give a video where both are stopped and someone flags down the car or something.

Am i right or am i right guys??

[Midnight Autoworks]

that video was crap. Man i want to point this out, no one is really trusting you right now as u can see. You need to earn that trust back, so give us the best video u can get and show us during day time. Go 2 a track so we can also get 1/4 time. I mean im just saying, it could better. Your selling 3k+ parts here, we have to be able to trust. Give a video where both are stopped and someone flags down the car or something.

Am i right or am i right guys??

come on man! We can just go somewhere and get flaged down to race from 0-120. Its illegal. Going to the track wouldnt be a bad idea but its 3 hours away, we all gotta work. I understand that we have to prove our product to you guys, but at least acknowledge the fact that we are trying, and we have met all your demands up to this point. We have provided dynos charts that show that our s/c makes more power than a M motor and even though its crappy we have pretty good evidence that its faster than the M roadster.We will get a daytime race, this video was taken at night not to blur out the facts, but to avoid traffic and cops. Daytime races will be impossible during the week, Miami traffic sucks but, by the end of the week we'll get you guys a solid daytime race.

[andyman7931]

come on man! We can just go somewhere and get flaged down to race from 0-120. Its illegal. Going to the track wouldnt be a bad idea but its 3 hours away, we all gotta work. I understand that we have to prove our product to you guys, but at least acknowledge the fact that we are trying, and we have met all your demands up to this point. We have provided dynos charts that show that our s/c makes more power than a M motor and even though its crappy we have pretty good evidence that its faster than the M roadster.We will get a daytime race, this video was taken at night not to blur out the facts, but to avoid traffic and cops. Daytime races will be impossible during the week, Miami traffic sucks but, by the end of the week we'll get you guys a solid daytime race.

I just want to say that I know you're trying. Some of the people on this message board aren't the most mature and don't think as fast as they type. I'm just as skeptical as many of your product but sit and wait for you to prove it out. Keep giving us examples and videos please, don't do anything stupid or dangerous in the process though. I think the best thing you can do is get the system installed on someone's car who can independantly verify the workmanship and quality.

[HuGo]

I didnt say top out to 120, id like to see launches and how the 1st-4th gear works. I know u need to avoid cops and thats kool. Just helping u out saying to do it day time so more ppl can see better u know. Dont u know any large streets are mainly lonely?? Im not doubting ur product, but i aint also saying its the best.

[96cali]

+1. Independent opinions are best. Keep going!

I just want to say that I know you're trying. Some of the people on this message board aren't the most mature and don't think as fast as they type. I'm just as skeptical as many of your product but sit and wait for you to prove it out. Keep giving us examples and videos please, don't do anything stupid or dangerous in the process though. I think the best thing you can do is get the system installed on someone's car who can independantly verify the workmanship and quality.

[Midnight Autoworks]

I just want to say that I know you're trying. Some of the people on this message board aren't the most mature and don't think as fast as they type. I'm just as skeptical as many of your product but sit and wait for you to prove it out. Keep giving us examples and videos please, don't do anything stupid or dangerous in the process though. I think the best thing you can do is get the system installed on someone's car who can independantly verify the workmanship and quality.

we actually just shipped one out to a fella in kansa who originally had the DASC. He had the DASC for a month then heard about us and toke off the s/c, hes returning (DASC offeres 30 day warranty)it.As soon as our S/C gets there he is going to have it installed professionally. Hopefully he can get it installed quickly so that he can provide feed back, In the mean while we'll keep giving you more vids.

[andyman7931]

we actually just shipped one out to a fella in kansa who originally had the DASC. He had the DASC for a month then heard about us and toke off the s/c, hes returning (DASC offeres 30 day warranty)it.As soon as our S/C gets there he is going to have it installed professionally. Hopefully he can get it installed quickly so that he can provide feed back, In the mean while we'll keep giving you more vids.

good start, but what about using someone who's already well known on this message board? For me that'd hold a lot more weight than any stranger. Check your PMs.

[HuGo]

good start, but what about using someone who's already well known on this message board? For me that'd hold a lot more weight than any stranger. Check your PMs.

so as read on ur starting post, you bought this kit? Make vids, and before/after engine pics. Cuz for 3,500 stage 3 92HP gain, id be willing to do it too, but until i save up some money.

Hey midnight, by any chance u take monthly payments?

[Midnight Autoworks]

so as read on ur starting post, you bought this kit? Make vids, and before/after engine pics. Cuz for 3,500 stage 3 92HP gain, id be willing to do it too, but until i save up some money.

Hey midnight, by any chance u take monthly payments?

as of right now no, but were working on it, hopefully in the near future we will do financing

[mpower1226]

as of right now no, but were working on it, hopefully in the near future we will do financing

what about m42 engines? are you going to be offering for it?

[Tyler]

Click here for the video,

http://www.eatonm3.com/z3%20race.wmv


This video is now on it's way to the Florida State Police. Good luck to you.

J/k man...


that video was crap. Am i right or am i right guys??

Seriously what did you expect? You just don't street race anywhere and you don't do it in broad daylight unless you have a long road with no cars traveling down it. I give him props for atleast psoting a video and doing the best they can with what they got. This is a new company & it's not going to get a good reputation like Downing Atlanta right off the bat. That my friend takes time.

[Juni]

This video is now on it's way to the Florida State Police. Good luck to you.

J/k man...




Seriously what did you expect? You just don't street race anywhere and you don't do it in broad daylight unless you have a long road with no cars traveling down it. I give him props for atleast psoting a video and doing the best they can with what they got. This is a new company & it's not going to get a good reputation like Downing Atlanta right off the bat. That my friend takes time.

+1

[1rstbmw!]

[QUOTE=Tyler]This video is now on it's way to the Florida State Police. Good luck to you.

J/k man...

:biggrin: :biggrin: ROFL:evil_lau: :evil_lau:

[HuGo]

This video is now on it's way to the Florida State Police. Good luck to you.

J/k man...




Seriously what did you expect? You just don't street race anywhere and you don't do it in broad daylight unless you have a long road with no cars traveling down it. I give him props for atleast psoting a video and doing the best they can with what they got. This is a new company & it's not going to get a good reputation like Downing Atlanta right off the bat. That my friend takes time.

i was just saying it would be a little better for everyone.

[Tyler]

i was just saying it would be a little better for everyone.


I understand that but it would be hard to do in the daylight without getting arrested for wreckless driving .

[Midnight Autoworks]

Were racing again today , during the day 35mph-120mph. In my opinion Off the line says nothing for the car, just the driver and his traction and his clutch. 35 mph to 125 , thats plenty of time to determin which car is faster then the other.
Tu quach (318 guy who used to have the D/A kit and hes installing out kit) is amost done with install, he is finishing up the water injection kit on monday and he will have pictures and what not to post on this site.

Joe

[HuGo]

You gonna video tape the race right. Well to make it good make sure your filmer doesnt shake to much.

[96cali]

I thought L84THSKY was gonna jump on the free install deal. What happened?

[L84THSKY]

You know what....I'm gonna wait till all this supercharger hype dies down. I have front/rear/roof spoilers, a LSD and now springs and shocks to install.

I'll let everyone else stroke themselves into a frenzy talking about RWHP, videos, water/alcohol injection, dyno tests and all that **** I get tired of hearing about.

When a new supercharger comes around, that is worth buying, I'll know. Right now all this talk makes me sleepy:bored:

I thought L84THSKY was gonna jump on the free install deal. What happened?

[lem0n]

On the topic of Joe Ghattas, let me tell our story. I'm a reasonable man and prefer to resolve issue(s) directly with the company, rather then making things public and ugly; however, this is one of the times when exception to the rule applies.
Last year we have purchased an M44 supercharged kit from Joe, when he was still at KO. After unpacking this diseasteous piece of machinery, we called Joe and asked him to pick it up ASAP and issue a refund, as there would be no way in hell we'd put this into one of our customers' cars.
That very night I noticed a FS post on BimmerForums about KO selling an S52 engine, something we were looking for to install into our project car. So next day I contacted Joe and talked to him about getting the engine instead, plus paying whatever was the balance. The deal included an S52 engine from '99 M3 Convertible with 16k mi, manual transmission, driveshaft, rear carrier and 3.23 LSD. Long story short, after 3 months of calling Joe and hearing lies, we finally get the package. Driveshaft is missing. 3.23 LSD is actually a 3.91 open-end. CarFax for the engine reveals that it's actually out of '98 M3 coupe, with 70k mi and True Mileage Unknown on top of that. Cherry on the cake is, after we do a leakdown test, cylinder 4 has 28% leakdown from bent intake valves (mishift). At this point Joe is MIA and KO is royally f'ed, as their phones are dead and emails are unanswered. However, I have to give enormous props to John Paul for getting back to us as quickly as possible, based on the situation he found himself in, explaining everything and working out the solution with us. He seems to be a stand-up guy and I will not hesitate to do future business with him and his company.
So, in case anyone has anymore doubts, please read this and ask yourself if you really want to deal with Joe Ghattas and Midnight Motorwerks.
Also, a note to mods, you should probably consider employing some kind of screening process for prospective advertisers/supporters, as things like this should never happen.

Dimitri
Landshark Automotive

[1996 328ti]

Also, a note to mods, you should probably consider employing some kind of screening process for prospective advertisers/supporters, as things like this should never happen.
We don't have advertisers so our members are free to comment about the businesses who post. Every business that has posted has contacted me first. Bad practice gets spread around the internet pretty quickly.

[Midnight Autoworks]

We don't have advertisers so our members are free to comment about the businesses who post. Every business that has posted has contacted me first. Bad practice gets spread around the internet pretty quickly.

Joeseph Ghattas currently works for me at Midnight Autoworks. Although his ethics are not what they should be, he is a hardworker and is knowledgeable on his area of experties.
His position in the business is mechanics, and design.
I Gus Rodriguez will be in charge of all transactions and relations to our customers.
My primary goal is satisfaction and quality
I ask you to try to neglect all of Joe's past issues and allow me to prove
to you that my business and I will be straight forward, honest, and understanding. No run arounds!

[Panzer_M]

Although his ethics are not what they should be,<<< Enough for 90% of this site to STOP doing business with you.

I meet Joe at Summerblaze 05, and really wasn't impressed with his line of talk.

[SDKmann]

Joeseph Ghattas currently works for me at Midnight Autoworks. Although his ethics are not what they should be, he is a hardworker and is knowledgeable on his area of experties.
His position in the business is mechanics, and design.
I Gus Rodriguez will be in charge of all transactions and relations to our customers.
My primary goal is satisfaction and quality
I ask you to try to neglect all of Joe's past issues and allow me to prove
to you that my business and I will be straight forward, honest, and understanding. No run arounds!

It would be great to see this happen. Ill take back all the crap Ive said so far if you prove you have a good product. But if you knew joes ethics were not what they should be and you are in charge of transactions and relations, why did you let him come on this site to talk about your S/C and why did you let it get this far?

[andyman7931]

Joeseph Ghattas currently works for me at Midnight Autoworks. Although his ethics are not what they should be, he is a hardworker and is knowledgeable on his area of experties.
His position in the business is mechanics, and design.
I Gus Rodriguez will be in charge of all transactions and relations to our customers.
My primary goal is satisfaction and quality
I ask you to try to neglect all of Joe's past issues and allow me to prove
to you that my business and I will be straight forward, honest, and understanding. No run arounds!

post # 41 on this thread http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8942 kinda pooped on my party. That and not being able to deliver a " detailed and illustrated installation manual" as stated here http://www.eatonm3.com/318_supercharger.htm . I think your best bet is to complete development before trying to make the product fly here.

[HuGo]

Water injection- On similar systems (Downing Atlanta) the supercharger is powerful in the morning when the car is still cold, after the car heats up, the power drops off tremendously. The reason is, the supercharger heats up, the intake manifold is almost the same temperature as the cylinder head and hot air/fuel mix pre-ignites in the combustion chamber, causing the cars ECU to retard the ignition timing and loosing power. We use a dual nozzle water injection system that is boost activated to cool the supercharger and the air charge going into your motor to maintain the HP and stop pre-ignition without having to run the car super rich. Just fill the tank with water when you pump gas.

what exactly does this mean? You put water instead of gas or what does it mean exactly? Serious responce please.

[andyman7931]

Water injection- On similar systems (Downing Atlanta) the supercharger is powerful in the morning when the car is still cold, after the car heats up, the power drops off tremendously. The reason is, the supercharger heats up, the intake manifold is almost the same temperature as the cylinder head and hot air/fuel mix pre-ignites in the combustion chamber, causing the cars ECU to retard the ignition timing and loosing power. We use a dual nozzle water injection system that is boost activated to cool the supercharger and the air charge going into your motor to maintain the HP and stop pre-ignition without having to run the car super rich. Just fill the tank with water when you pump gas.

what exactly does this mean? You put water instead of gas or what does it mean exactly? Serious responce please.

1st, you can only increase boost (pressure) to a certain level before gas pre-detonates. This is the same as increasing the compression ratio of an engine. If you raise the compression ratio too high, pump gas will pre-detonate and cause your engine to eventually self destruct. keep this in mind for later...

working with gases (not gasoline, elements in their vapor state, like air) there's a formula to describe the relationship between pressure, volume and temperature. You can read more here http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/IdealGasLaw.html
The idea of an internal combustion engine is to get oxygen from the air, mix it with gas and cause an explosion that pushes the piston. To get the greatest amounts of oxygen ( n = number of moles ) in the combustion chamber ( v = combustion chamber volume, R = universal gas constant, which are both constant) (based on PV=NRT) without water injection, t would be constant (around the thermostat temp of the car) we can rearrange the equation to read P=N(RT/V) where RT/V is constant. So here you see that the most oxygen you can get in the combustion chamber is directly related to the pressure. If we could decrease T at the same time as increasing P ( P/T=N(R/V) ) it would be the same thing as increasing pressure even more, without increasing the compression ratio(explained before), preventing pre-detonation. The safest way of doing this is to add an intercooler to cool the pressurized intake air back to outside air temps, but using the manfold design of MA and DA, this isn't possible. The alternative is to spray cool water into the hot intake temps.

The explination of causing the ECU to retard the timing isn't a complete picture of what happens, I tried to explain what fully happens here, I know i over simplified it, but I'm just trying to prove concepts here.

[HuGo]

wow. I was so lost but thx for explaining anywayz, not just for me but for everyone else i guess. But what did he mean by, instead of pumping gas, fill the tank with water? Where would you be putting this water at?

[96cali]

Honestly, how I ever aced HS physics is beyond me. Well done Andyman!

I think he means pump gas, as opposed to 100 octane race gas which is not commonly available at the pump.

[REDIS]

wow. I was so lost but thx for explaining anywayz, not just for me but for everyone else i guess. But what did he mean by, instead of pumping gas, fill the tank with water? Where would you be putting this water at?

He meant fill the water/methanol injection tank with water, this cools the charge air. Also you can use a 50/50 mix of water and denatured alcohol, or windshield washer fluid (most common besides water) which contains enough methanol to do the job.

[HuGo]

He meant fill the water/methanol injection tank with water, this cools the charge air. Also you can use a 50/50 mix of water and denatured alcohol, or windshield washer fluid (most common besides water) which contains enough methanol to do the job.

is that where the anti freeze go? Its a white small tank on the right side of the engine? next to the intake?

[andyman7931]

is that where the anti freeze go? Its a white small tank on the right side of the engine? next to the intake?

unless you have the stage 3 kit with water injection already installed, you don't have a tank to put the water. Look at the pics in the kit, you'll see a tank. http://www.eatonm3.com/midnightkit5.jpg

[Midnight Autoworks]

I got these pictures back from one of our customers who just finished installing our stage 3 kit on his 318ti. He is in Kansas if any of you are local.
http://www.eatonm3.com/10.jpg
http://www.eatonm3.com/3.jpg
http://www.eatonm3.com/9.jpg
http://www.eatonm3.com/IMG_2237.JPG
http://www.eatonm3.com/IMG_2247.JPG
Joe Ghattas

[96cali]

Looks good. You should encourage this customer to join the site here and post their impressions on the install and performance, dynos, vids, etc. Any chance this member will go to Techfest in St. Louis?

Anyone here from Kansas?

[SDKmann]

Why is there a knife on your S/C? Isnt that where Downing Atlanta stamps their name on their S/Cs? And why is the knife only there on pics where we would be able to see the stamp? Are you using a DASC to try and get us to buy your S/C?

[andyman7931]

Why is there a knife on your S/C? Isnt that where Downing Atlanta stamps their name on their S/Cs? And why is the knife only there on pics where we would be able to see the stamp? Are you using a DASC to try and get us to buy your S/C?

look at DA pics. I think they use an m42 SC instead of the m62, also they stamp the name on the casting, not the SC itself since they buy that pre-assembled I'm sure. There's nothing similar to the DA kit here, other than the fact it's an m44 and a SC.

[DustenT]

Why is there a knife on your S/C?

The knife is needed to cut all those stupid sensors off! Who needs 'em anyways, they just get in the way, right?

[SDKmann]

Well it looks like they are trying to cover something up.

[andyman7931]

Well it looks like they are trying to cover something up.

hadn't thought of that, hopefully they're not though :confused:

[1996 328ti]

Why is there a knife on your S/C? Isnt that where Downing Atlanta stamps their name on their S/Cs? And why is the knife only there on pics where we would be able to see the stamp? Are you using a DASC to try and get us to buy your S/C?
It looks different. Compare photos at
http://www.318ti.org/notebook/dasc/index.htm

[Midnight Autoworks]

C'mon guys, that knife was left there by accident, it was used to cut off the excess gasket material from the blower, we are not hiding anything.

[L84THSKY]

Let's see it when he completes the job. It's obvious he is not done.

C'mon guys, that knife was left there by accident, it was used to cut off the excess gasket material from the blower, we are not hiding anything.

[PettitWC]

Let's see it when he completes the job.

yes, let's

[HuGo]

that guys needs to seriously log on here and let us know whats up with that S/C

[Midnight Autoworks]

Here are the pictures of the new elbows back from the machine shop.
We now have kits in stock ready to ship for 96-99 .
http://www.eatonm3.com/eldo3.jpg
http://www.eatonm3.com/elbo2.jpg
Joe

[cali-ti]

did you outsource for the welding? look better than before, imho. are you having the same shop weld up the manifold?

[Midnight Autoworks]

We found a shop that does Tig instead of Mig welding and there work is AWESOME,I am having them weld the manfold as well.
side note: There also doing my M3 supercharger manifold.
Joe

[SDKmann]

Do you have any pics of this new manifold?

[Midnight Autoworks]

Ill take some pictures of the manifolds tonight,
also check out this ebay auction stage 3 kit with everything and a stage 3 clutch

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-318-z3-1-9l-stage-3-complete-supercharger-kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33741QQitemZ8041889275QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[mischief]

what do you all think about this being the next upgrade to projectclubsport

[DustenT]

what do you all think about this being the next upgrade to projectclubsport

I wouldn't.

[yadahbliss]

Hi all. This kit was installed on my 98 318ti last week. I have been working w/ Joe and Gus in getting the necessary parts, etc. They have been very supportive throughout the install and thus far, my technician and I are very pleased. I have not had the chance to drive the car much, it went straight to the body shop after it started running for a new bumper. When I return to town, I plan to get the car dyno'ed and eventually post numbers. Trying to work out pricing on the dyno with a fellow local shop...

The car drives great and feels very quick. I have experience with the DASC kit as well. It is a very solid kit but utilizes a mechanical boost/fuel regulator that didn't meet my needs. So far, I've been happy with everything. But we all know, numbers will prove it all... with my current setup, I'm optimistic to hit 220hp at the wheels. How sweet would that be? Will probably come in around 200 and tune from there, I still have a minor exhaust leak b/n the headers and midpipe. Will write more when time permits.

Feel free to ping me w/ any questions. I'll respond accordingly and when time allows me to. If you are local, let me know that, I'd be more than happy to show the car off :)

[SDKmann]

Sorry about this but I have to be skeptic. This is your first post so how do we know that you are not one of the guys from MA trying to get us to trust them? Once again Im sorry that I posted this but Im just very skeptic about anything about MA right now.

[HuGo]

Sorry about this but I have to be skeptic. This is your first post so how do we know that you are not one of the guys from MA trying to get us to trust them? Once again Im sorry that I posted this but Im just very skeptic about anything about MA right now.

+1 wow, for once, i agree with you

I wanted to put this same exact thing, but i waited for someone else to do so. Steve, can you do a background IP check. Well, this person needs to post pics of a car. Please, dont say you have a white z3.

[yadahbliss]

I guess its appropriate to be cautious of new members. I find it amusing reading the rest of this thread, a number of you seem extremely paranoid. Well, I've been duped with cheap bimmer parts before, so I can understand why this is so.

Don't really know what to say. I noticed one of you is from Iowa, I invite you to come down to KC sometime if you're up for a nice scenic drive... that way, you can return with news that the car does exist. And I'm a real person.

If you want to do a reverse lookup, my IP is 70.12.82.4, it may be useless though, I have one of those new EVDO aircards and will probably show a Sprint business address and phone number. If one of you gurus know a way to really pin point the access tower (it will show Minneapolis - where I am now), let me know if you are able to do this b/c I'm interested how to do it myself. I'll be back in Kansas City this weekend.

What else... will post more pics when I get the chance. Sorry for the clutter in the picture, I had tools everywhere when we were getting the s/c installed. I am a BMW CCA member, don't know if my membership is still valid but I participate in most of the BMWCCA, Porsche, and Audi club events in the area. If you come out to Heartland Park Topeka, MAM, Hallett or Gateway Raceway this summer, you can see the car too.

Don't know about the event in St.L, please tell me more.

Also, for those w/ Angel Eyes installed... they look really good, is it real glass? and can you recommend where the place would be to get a good quality set? I'm getting a m-tech bumper put on and have the euro-clear lights, I think the Angel Eyes would look pretty good too. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thnks!

[AlaskaBlue]

Welcome to the site. Good to see someone bought the kit and is happy with it.

ZKWs with retrofit angel eyes. Real glass. Very clear. HID upgrade option. http://www.understeer.com I bought the ZKWs less the angel eyes.

[HuGo]

is this the largest thread on here? im curious, 22 pages :eek: i feel bad for the first timers that need to read this thread from the beginning

[96cali]

Yadahbliss- if that is your real name... who won the world series in 1952? How do we know you're not a communist?

Just kidding man. :tongue:

To calm anyone's fears I'm sure a KC CCA member can vouch. There was a guy with a tracked Ti, white '95 I think, bought some leather seats from him. Can't remember his name. Sound familiar?

The St.L event is called techfest, don't know much about it but would be good publicity for MA. What made you pick the MASC and how did you hear about them? Who did the install?

[andyman7931]

is this the largest thread on here? im curious, 22 pages :eek: i feel bad for the first timers that need to read this thread from the beginning

it's not the largest yet... http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6247

I set up my prefs so it shows more per page, it's only 6 pages for me. This is nicer unless you're on dialup.

[SDKmann]

I guess its appropriate to be cautious of new members. I find it amusing reading the rest of this thread, a number of you seem extremely paranoid. Well, I've been duped with cheap bimmer parts before, so I can understand why this is so.

Don't really know what to say. I noticed one of you is from Iowa, I invite you to come down to KC sometime if you're up for a nice scenic drive... that way, you can return with news that the car does exist. And I'm a real person.

If you want to do a reverse lookup, my IP is 70.12.82.4, it may be useless though, I have one of those new EVDO aircards and will probably show a Sprint business address and phone number. If one of you gurus know a way to really pin point the access tower (it will show Minneapolis - where I am now), let me know if you are able to do this b/c I'm interested how to do it myself. I'll be back in Kansas City this weekend.

What else... will post more pics when I get the chance. Sorry for the clutter in the picture, I had tools everywhere when we were getting the s/c installed. I am a BMW CCA member, don't know if my membership is still valid but I participate in most of the BMWCCA, Porsche, and Audi club events in the area. If you come out to Heartland Park Topeka, MAM, Hallett or Gateway Raceway this summer, you can see the car too.

Don't know about the event in St.L, please tell me more.

Also, for those w/ Angel Eyes installed... they look really good, is it real glass? and can you recommend where the place would be to get a good quality set? I'm getting a m-tech bumper put on and have the euro-clear lights, I think the Angel Eyes would look pretty good too. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thnks!

Like I said, Im sorry for saying it but you have to admit that we have a good reason to be paranoid about MA. Just look at it from our position, Ma comes in with a S/C very similar to one made by a crap company and your very first post was on this thread backing up MA. After what you said in this post Im sure your a real member and not MA. If I get a chance Id love to come down and check out the S/C. Welcome to the site.

[yadahbliss]

No worries, I think its great that a forum like this exists to help all us ti owners filter thru all the "cr ap" available out there. There's no sense in wasting your money on something that simply doesn't meet your needs.

Keep in mind, I've installed this particular s/c a few weeks ago. I've driven it a whole 5-6 times since. I'm still fixing a minor exhaust leak... I don't even know what boost its running yet. The boost gauge is sitting at the local dyno shop where I plan to head in the very near future. When these things are done, I will have a much better idea of how to rate and describe the overall modification happiness level. Until then, I'll try to take a few pics and post them.

BMWCCA, I'm in the KC or Iowa chapter. I do remember seeing a white ti at the track (MAM) one time but do not remember who the driver is. There's a guy I know out there with a red ti w/ a DASC and he's always running w/ toyo tires. If you do the events much, I'm sure you know who he is.

Competition in the market place is always a good thing. I'll do my best to relay the experiences and value I receive from this new provider (MA) to everyone. Right now, first thoughts are... its on the car... it works... it feels really good... Second thoughts are... how fast is it really? ... how reliable? ... what tuning is necessary? When I figure these things out, I'll let you all know.

[Midnight Autoworks]

Hey. I see our customers are slowly making their way to the forums.
Thanks alot, your feedback is greatly appreciated by Gus and my-self.
I Can't wait to see your dyno.

Joe

[yadahbliss]

The St.L event is called techfest, don't know much about it but would be good publicity for MA. What made you pick the MASC and how did you hear about them? Who did the install?

96cali... picked MASC due to features not offered by competitor(s). as you all know, there aren't too many vendors of s/c systems for our beloved 318ti. some local guys in kc (prochargers) were up for the challenge but the custom fabrication/creation would have been much $$. the DASC is a solid kit, but lacked sw tuning. the MASC was appealing b/c of the claimed hp in the stg 3 kit. it also has the meth injection system (which will be nice in the summer time), higher lb injectors, new fuel rail, cais (for those w/out one), and mainly - sw controlled tuning which can be customized for the specific vehicle. i found out about the MASC and was very interested, after talking to Joe and Gus, I found myself compelled to purchase one.

My technician and I performed the installation. I am fortunate to be part of a local shop here in town and have access to most everything I need for proper installation, etc. Although, we found the install was fairly straight-forward (for the mechanically inclined). It can be rather confusing and dis-heartening to those that are not up for the challenge. Most skilled mechanics would have this job done in 6-10 hours. We took 22 hours... at a lesuirely rate of course... We did it all on jackstands in my garage with no special tools really. We had to relocate the car onto a lift at the shop for new headers, clutch and flywheel... I don't recommend trying to do that on jack stands - its just a bad idea.

That's about it. Drove the car around a lot today. Its quick! My best bud in town has a 95 mustang GT (the 5.0L one)... its a little hopped up too (exhaust, intake, other minor things). Before, he would always leave me in the dust... by a long shot - it wasn't even funny. Today, it was a different story. I kept right up with him. Even pulled a little in 3rd gear. That's 200hp range guys... Don't know exactly, but its pretty darn fast. Need to fix exhaust leak, ordered the wrong size clamp :( and we'll try it again.

[ZX12R]

man that kit looks bad and ugly yikes,the only thing i would put that on is a chevy chevett.

[Midnight Autoworks]

Looks to me like the nicest thing under the hood,, everyones got their opinion. But once again, thats like saying "I hate the way all those wires look under the hood of the corvette cuzz my saturn looks all clean and neet with its plastic covers." Just the way I feel, The parts are all clean and well made, the rest is really up to you when you install it as far as how much time you want to take to organize and route the wires, cut your hoses to the perfect length and tuck everything away.
214rwhp is alot of power coming out of that little motor for a daily driver and on a completly stock block. You should take a look at a stock dasc air to fuel ratio and compare, for the same money Im giving you software to properly tune the car. Its ultamitly everyones own choice wether you choose fit and finish over functionality and power.
Joe
http://www.eatonm3.com/3.jpg

[DustenT]

http://180customs.net/v-web/gallery/albums/BMW/009_Blower_Assembly.jpg

And since we've NEVER seen a completely installed MASC kit, here is the DASC installed:

http://180customs.net/v-web/gallery/albums/BMW/Random_011.sized.jpg

[andyman7931]

http://180customs.net/v-web/gallery/albums/BMW/009_Blower_Assembly.jpg (http://180customs.net/v-web/gallery/albums/BMW/009_Blower_Assembly.jpg)




apples for apples pics... http://www.eatonm3.com/midnightkit6.jpg

[AlaskaBlue]

"I hate the way all those wires look under the hood of the corvette cuzz my satern

Please, next time you reference a Saturn spell it right. It doesn't help the cause to spell a major point wrong. Now google image a corvette engine and a saturn engine. Which one looks better? Which one is worth more? Which would you rather have? Which one works better?

You are getting closer, but still have a ways to come.

[CaliDohBoy]

I wouldn't necessarily call that "apples for apples". To my unexperienced (as far as supercharger models go) eye, what we're looking at are two DIFFERENT superchargers. Secondly, from an air flow point of view, I would think the "elbow" that MA uses for the intake to the SC doesn't restrict the flow as much as the "pretty" one that DA uses. Three... yes there manifold could use some "beautification". That comes with time. Right now it's more about, "does it work?", "does it produce more power than the DA?". If I was to buy a SC... that's what I would care about. Kind of like buying intakes... We all know on this site that CAI and SRI's don't do much as far as power here and you would be better off doing a home mod "fogged" airbox. Is it as pretty as a CAI or SRI? No, but does it work, YES.

I've been reading this thread for the last few days and alot of you on here don't have an open mind. I can tell you right now that after reading this I don't trust KO and have SOME skepticism about their former employees. BUT, I am keeping an open mind and i'm being patient. If this truly is a start up business and they are trying to build SC (which by the nature of how much they cost for us... is NOT a cheap endeavor) then it takes time to build more than one and have all that pretty sweet machinery that DA uses. So, if they uses 4" piping that is welded (and is functional) and it's not a pretty as a mandrel bent or cast or whatever, then give them a break. If they prove to all of us here that have open minds that their product works, then they will sell some and have some money to improve things like the look of the manifold.

There, I've said my 50 cents. OUT.

[SDKmann]

I like dustins pic of the DASC.

[andyman7931]

it's apples to apples because the it's one company's setup of the supercharger mounted to a manifold vs another company's, both photos of the same angle/perspective. I am keenly aware that they are different superchargers, I just wanted to give a simple comparison since asthetics were being questioned here.

I was, and am trying to keep an open mind on this product, I even was considering purchasing one but didn't feel that the product was ready for retail sale. I also am cautious about the business practices of some of the people involved. I've posted links to other message boards that explain this further.

If you were to question several people here, we're waiting to find an independant installation who can provide us good feedback. Hopefully there's some in the near future. Until then, we will be skeptical.

[CaliDohBoy]

My main gripe about this whole thread is PATIENCE. Do we not have a member (albeit new) that just installed this SC? Did he not state TODAY (Post #241) his initial reactions? We all need to have patience, let the guy finish what he is doing and dyno it.

And why are wer comparing asthetics? Who puts a SC in a show car? Since I'm a programmer, I relate this to a beta version of a software release. No program is perfect the first time. They put out a working product, and we submit feedback. I'm pretty sure through 249 posts that they have received the asthetic feedback. But what matters are the meat and potatoes, not whether it's in a pretty plate. Would it make everyone happy if they powdercoated and stamped their name on it so it was "pretty"? For a comparison, I've seen some pretty sh*tty looking strut bars that some people have bought on here that function. (ex: BMP)

I'm by no way supporting MA. But, I don't shoot down new competitors in the market. Competition is good. More products for our car is good. They have a hard road ahead to regain consumer confidence in their product and need some work on their PR (i.e., shut Joe up and let Gus do the talking). They however are making a genuine effort to make a good product that functions. Functionality is what matters. Fit and Finish come after a successful unit.