Pads for Track days

[iammemares]

Hey Guys,

Up to now I have kept my brake system basically stock for SCCA rules for my Auotx class, but I want to start doing some CCA track days.

I have Stoptech slotted rotors and braided lines with Axxis Ultimate pads. These are OK for the street but not for Track use. I have heard of BMW folks liking Carbo Techs and Hawks. Just wondering what do you have on your car for TRACK days and why? (I am willing to R&R the pads for track use only. I am running street tires on the track, (NOT R compound).

Appreciate any thoughts.
Mark Mares

[bmwpwr]

My car sounds similar to yours with about the same use. I use Hawk HP + and they have always worked great. No fade at the end of the 5th session on a hot day. I have had the same set on since last August. They are a little bit noisy on the street though.

[J!m]

I am a huge fan of the Porterfield R4S pads.

Quiet (when installed with disc brake quiet as recommended)
clean (WAY cleaner than stock BMW pads)
long wearing (over two years and still plenty of life left)
easy on the rotors
stop like hitting a school (lock the seat-belt, blood rushing to the face...)
nearly imposible to fade (but it can be done)I leave them on all the time, as they are great for the track and street (and if you are running street tires anyway, why pull them to change pads?). If you will be switching them out anyway, go for the Porterfield R4 pads. These are the race version. They need to be a bit hot to work well, whereas the R4S (street pads) operate fine cold. The R4S does appreciate a bit of heat to really grab: it feels like a full rotation of the rotor before they REALLY clamp down on the street. If you stomp them, they WILL stop.

The R4 needs a bit of heat to get going as mentioned above, but fade later. Don't forget to change your fluid frequently if you heat the brakes often...

I've had them for a few years now and they are holding up great.

[iammemares]

How about Carbo Tech XP 10s??

Any experience?

[J!m]

Not with me...

[30yrMbr]

I am a huge fan of Porterfield R4S pads too, run them in my E46 M3 on the track and street. Not as fond of the R4 pads, especially on the street as they don't grab well when cold. There is another option, that is the R4E, that 's the Endro pad, much easier on the rotors than the R4 and work okay when cold. But still prefer the R4S as the best dual use pad. Just remember that switching pads without switching rotors at the same time is not so good. Pads deposit material on the rotor, and switching between Carbon/Kelvar pads and stock or street pad can have an adverse affect without changing the rotor to match the pad use.

Lots of pads available out there, so little track time to test them all! :biggrin:


I am a huge fan of the Porterfield R4S pads.

Quiet (when installed with disc brake quiet as recommended)
clean (WAY cleaner than stock BMW pads)
long wearing (over two years and still plenty of life left)
easy on the rotors
stop like hitting a school (lock the seat-belt, blood rushing to the face...)
nearly imposible to fade (but it can be done)I leave them on all the time, as they are great for the track and street (and if you are running street tires anyway, why pull them to change pads?). If you will be switching them out anyway, go for the Porterfield R4 pads. These are the race version. They need to be a bit hot to work well, whereas the R4S (street pads) operate fine cold. The R4S does appreciate a bit of heat to really grab: it feels like a full rotation of the rotor before they REALLY clamp down on the street. If you stomp them, they WILL stop.

The R4 needs a bit of heat to get going as mentioned above, but fade later. Don't forget to change your fluid frequently if you heat the brakes often...

I've had them for a few years now and they are holding up great.

[1996 328ti]

How about Carbo Tech XP 10s??

Any experience?I've been using Carbotech Panther Plus and have been very happy with them. They are just below the XP8s. I might go with XP9 when I need a new set.

I ran Ultimate Axxis once because I brought the wrong pads with me and they are just very different. I had to brake much earlier and felt some fading. Not good for the track.

Don't use an aggressive pad in the rear.
You would be OK with Axxis in the rear.

When I was running PantherPlus all around I had too much brake in the rear. The car was squirrelly under hard braking. When I went with the Ultimates or now Bobcats, my braking has smoothed out dramatically.

Everyone has there favorite brands. Just remember, there is no such think as a track/street pad.

[iammemares]

Good info. I was also thinking that the axxis might be good in the rear as I dont want to much effectiveness in the rear. I tend to run with the ABS disabled as I can get much more braking than the ABS will allow. Under these conditions, too much rear brake is not so good.

I am thinking I am gonna try either the R4s Porterfields (which I have heard lots of good about) or the Carbotech which some of the M3 guys really like.

Any good sources for Porterfields or Carbotechs. I need them in my hands in 3 days!!

Thanks for the feedback, Mark

[1996 328ti]

I buy my Carbotechs directly from carbotecheng.com
The Axxis in the rear will be fine.
Do you have vented rotors?

[iammemares]

NO the fronts on the 96 are not vented rotors as OE. The stoptechs that I fitted are slotted though. I did this to stay inside SCCA rules. It seems crazy to me that I cant fit vented rotors even though they were OE a few years later, but thats SCCA.

[1996 328ti]

Be careful then. I faded pretty quickly with solid rotors.
It was a short track with little time to cool.

[bmwpwr]

Just remember that switching pads without switching rotors at the same time is not so good. Pads deposit material on the rotor, and switching between Carbon/Kelvar pads and stock or street pad can have an adverse affect without changing the rotor to match the pad use.


Ive always heard just the opposite that you shouldnt change pads and rotors at the same time according to Bimmerhaus and other people.


This is directly from their website:

Is it OK to install new rotors AND new pads at the same time?

Our experience has shown us that it's best to not install new pads and new rotors at the same time. Whenever possible use seasoned rotors with new pads or used pads in good condition to season new rotors. Also, it's best to avoid extremely hard braking during a rotor's initial break-in session. If you take the time to break in new rotors or pads properly they will last longer and perform better.
http://www.bimmerhaus.com/tech/season.html

[30yrMbr]

Ive always heard just the opposite that you shouldnt change pads and rotors at the same time according to Bimmerhaus and other people.


This is directly from their website:

Is it OK to install new rotors AND new pads at the same time?

Our experience has shown us that it's best to not install new pads and new rotors at the same time. Whenever possible use seasoned rotors with new pads or used pads in good condition to season new rotors. Also, it's best to avoid extremely hard braking during a rotor's initial break-in session. If you take the time to break in new rotors or pads properly they will last longer and perform better.
http://www.bimmerhaus.com/tech/season.html


Shoot, I have always been told that if you are swapping pads for track use, swap the rotors too, so that you have a set (rotor and Pads) for each usage. One set of rotors and pads for track, another set for the street. That required only once bedding in pads to a specific rotor. They do come from the factory with new rotors and new pads... :rolleyes:

[Panzer_M]

used R4S on Sebring and AutoX, and on the street I use Hawk, but I am running the same R4S from Porterfield..which have out done the Hawks in my opinion.

[1996 328ti]

Swapping rotors with pads depends on the compostion of the pad.
Sometimes you will get buildup on the rotor from mixing different compositions.
What people think are warped rotors is usually this build up.

I don't replace rotors or pads until I need to.
Maybe if I was doing only street driving I would.

[iammemares]

Thanks for the feedback. I have chosen to use the Carbotech XP9s in front and the axxis ultimate in the rears. My primary concern is too much brake up front for street tires. This will give me an opportunity to practice brake modulation.

Mark

[1996 328ti]

I think that will be a good setup. What tires are you running and what track?
I run RA1s and the car stops on a dime.