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halek
01-31-2006, 05:28 PM
Did all clubsport's have a lsd as standard ?

Were all ti's offered with a lsd as an option ?

I've convinced myself I need one of these & debating whether I should hunt down a 3.45 small case or go for one of the larger case options.

cheers

GDB
01-31-2006, 06:31 PM
All clubsports did have the lsd and I know the lsd was optional up until they started putting asc on the ti, after that I don't know.

DustenT
01-31-2006, 06:33 PM
Did all clubsport's have a lsd as standard ?

Were all ti's offered with a lsd as an option ?

I've convinced myself I need one of these & debating whether I should hunt down a 3.45 small case or go for one of the larger case options.

cheers

The club sport LSD is by far the easiest to install.

cali-ti
01-31-2006, 06:48 PM
The club sport LSD is by far the easiest to install.
AGREED! :) unless you need the extra power handling the large case diff gives you, the ti 3.45 LSD is a direct bolt in with no issues.

halek
01-31-2006, 07:17 PM
It's interesting that they stopped offering LSD after ASC was introduced. Am I right in thinking that ASC brakes individual wheels when traction is lost. If this is the case, a lsd would be working against it...correct?

I have ASC btw, although it gets turned off when I remember :biggrin:

J!m
01-31-2006, 11:57 PM
The ti traction control uses a second throtle (in the normally open position, as opposed to the normally closed position of the foot throtle) to close down as the rotating speed of the left front and right rear tires gets too far out of sync.

The ti used an old-school clutch pack LSD, and this did not work well with the "crude" traction control method in place on the ti (remember, they had to meet a price point). Once traction control became standard, it was easier to drop the LSD rather than invest in a high-end Torsen unit for the ti which would drive the cost up. The M Roadster uses a Torsen LSD which is much better behaved with the traction control, and does not have any wear parts (for anyone who cares TORSEN stands for TORque SENsing). Ti LSDs need to be re-built / adjusted periodically and have frequent oil changes to flush out the debris whereas the M roadster LSD does not. This is when the BMW "lifetime fill" nonsense came into being too. Theoretically, there is no clutch wear (with no clutches) so no sludge in the oil. But, the reality is the oil does get hot, and suffers thermal breakdown; and heat/cool cycles cause condensation which mixed with the oil, normal seeping leaks etc.

When I changed my diff oil after installing the M roadster diff, it was pretty nasty stuff in there, and the mileage was fairly low. So, lifetime fill is a load of crap, but we already knew that...

Panzer_M
02-01-2006, 12:51 AM
just changed my diff fluid with Redline.

Shoved my pinky in the drain hole to feel for grit..and/or chunks of metal.

nothing so far.

halek
02-01-2006, 07:05 AM
Thanks for that J!m.
I dont want to dump nor compromise my traction control system so your saying I should look at fitting a torsen lsd. Do you know if it's just the M's that have a torsen diff or are there other sources I could look at. Thanks

J!m
02-01-2006, 02:31 PM
I'm honestly not sure. I found out mine was a torsen long after I fitted it. My traction control has not worked since the engine swap, so it doesn't matter to me anyway; but I would see if the torsen is economically feasable for you as it SHOULD perform better with the ASC+T.

The clutch difs will be cheaper, as it's old technology. The torsen is quite high-tech, and therefore higher price...

You can remove the traction control actuator cable, and drive it that way. You will still get the flashing light when the traction control THINKS it's working (and lift off the throttle, which is essentially all the automatic system does), but the actualtor will be inplace giving the 'operational' signal back to the DME. Even with the torsen, it may still be a bit 'squirely', and I would probably remove the cable if I was in your position (you can always put it back/take it out as needed).

DustenT
02-01-2006, 03:11 PM
Thanks for that J!m.
I dont want to dump nor compromise my traction control system so your saying I should look at fitting a torsen lsd. Do you know if it's just the M's that have a torsen diff or are there other sources I could look at. Thanks

My traction control works great with the Club Sport LSD. I believe the traction control ALSO works the brakes to prevent a slide, but I might be wrong.

J!m
02-01-2006, 03:23 PM
Brakes are not affected in the E36 with by the ASC+T.

I believe the first use of brake application for 'cornering control' (or whatever name they gave it) was in the E46 3-series...

DustenT
02-01-2006, 05:10 PM
Brakes are not affected in the E36 with by the ASC+T.

I believe the first use of brake application for 'cornering control' (or whatever name they gave it) was in the E46 3-series...

Wow...I'm impressed. It certainly FEELS like brakes are being applied....

It amazes me that the traction control works so well by just flapping the throttle!

halek
02-01-2006, 05:47 PM
Thanks for your comments, food for thought.

I found this article right under my nose after googling for 20mins:rolleyes:
http://www.318ti.org/notebook/asc/index.html An interesting read, it claims that ASC+T uses the ABS to brake an individual wheel if it starts to spin & cuts engine power if both rear wheels lose traction. My initial concern was that if the ASC was just using single wheel braking, an LSD would be a bad idea ie both wheels would spin while ASC tried to brake just one of them :eek:

I'm thinking there possibily were issues with combining both, otherwise why would BMW pull the LSD option? who knows, those Germans can be crazy mofo's sometimes.
If you say your 3.45 has given no problems Dusten, that's good enough for me, if I can find one I'll happily fit one of those. Likewise a torsen diff is tempting me due to its superior design/function. I also found this thread claiming that ASC+T & a torsen diff work well together http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/TorsenDifferential.html

I guess it's gonna come down to price & availability. 3.45's are going to be as rare as hens teeth & the torsens are gonna cost the earth. I'll see what I can turn up.

DustenT
02-01-2006, 05:53 PM
Thanks for your comments, food for thought.

I found this article right under my nose after googling for 20mins:rolleyes:
http://www.318ti.org/notebook/asc/index.html An interesting read, it claims that ASC+T uses the ABS to brake an individual wheel if it starts to spin & cuts engine power if both rear wheels lose traction. My initial concern was that if the ASC was just using single wheel braking, an LSD would be a bad idea ie both wheels would spin while ASC tried to brake just one of them :eek:

I'm thinking there possibily were issues with combining both, otherwise why would BMW pull the LSD option? who knows, those Germans can be crazy mofo's sometimes.
If you say your 3.45 has given no problems Dusten, that's good enough for me, if I can find one I'll happily fit one of those. Likewise a torsen diff is tempting me due to its superior design/function. I also found this thread claiming that ASC+T & a torsen diff work well together http://member.rivernet.com.au/btaylor/BMWText/technical/TorsenDifferential.html

I guess it's gonna come down to price & availability. 3.45's are going to be as rare as hens teeth & the torsens are gonna cost the earth. I'll see what I can turn up.

I paid $400 for mine shipped from Florida. It had 70k miles on it. I probably over paid, but I needed one. I drive in snow ALOT and never had a problem, in fact the LSD is great in snow.

J!m
02-01-2006, 06:58 PM
Many of the old muscle cars had LSD for snow up north, not just for the dry road traction... It CAN help to keep the car pointing the right way, but on snowy corners, it can be a bit scary too...

Studded snow tires were the order of the day back then. Not as popular now-a-days, but I still think they're the way to go, even with todays superior snow tire design.

Panzer_M
02-05-2006, 01:33 PM
it helps in the rain down here in Florida...and it helps on Rallyes for sure.

97 had ASC+T and a Open Diff, Club Sport got just a LS...and the Club Sport is so much easier to regain control of. Only change in the suspension setups are I keeped the stock Mtech Springs of the Club Sport, while I did a 1.5 drop on the 97. But the struts, LCA, BJs, RSM, everything is the same setup.

316i compact
02-05-2006, 03:56 PM
i think no BMW has torsen type LSD...

1996 328ti
02-05-2006, 06:53 PM
i think no BMW has torsen type LSD...I believe the E36 M Coupe used a torsen.

cali-ti
02-06-2006, 03:38 AM
nope on the e36 m3 and nope on the m-coupe/mz3 according to this:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=347353&postcount=18

96cali
02-06-2006, 08:33 PM
email chris at understeer.com. He put an LSD on his '97 Ti to go with ASC+T. Said is worked great. Lsd works at the axel, ASC+T at the brakes.