Persianbmw's turbo build
 

ordered my kit yesterday it includes
T3/60-1 turbo
Intercooler
Universal piping
Oil line kit
Ssqv bov
Ssqv tube pipe
Obx 318i turbo manifold and downpipe
Boost controller
44mm v-band wastegate
i still need a scavenge pump and an rrfpr does anyone have any suggestions on the later. Finnally is anyone familiar with obd I tuning(if there is any) iv seen people with dasc use a piggyback system if you guys know about tunning the obd I can you list the parts u need. I will eventually get a full tune but i just want to throw the turbo on for now and run it with 7 or 8 psi on stock injectors and all.
big thx to john cause i wouldnt have gotten anywhere near this far without his help

You should be able to run stock tuning with an RRFPR and that level of boost. It isn't going to make the most horsepower possible, but the DASC kits run at the same level of boost on the stock tune...

You'd be better of spending your money on real tuning time than trying to use a piggy back. The only decent one out there is the ARC2, which you also need an AFR gauge to use properly. Looking at 600-900$ for a new split second kit that has what you need. Someone was selling one on here though..

do you know what specific rrpfr would work with the 318

I've just removed my RRFP and went with larger injectors. Let me know if you would like my DASC RRFP and I can sell it to you...

The RRFP Ipcapital has is perfect for 8-10psi of boost. You will need to put the 14psi spring in the waste gate and set the boost controller to the lowest setting for around 9psi (Only put boost pressure to the bottom port leave the top open to be super safe)...Good luck

Here is the scavenge pump I use Westech. I connect it to the fuel pump relay with a 30amp relay to turn it on with fuel pressure...Good pump most street people use with no failures reported...


http://www.scavengepump.com/

If you go OBDII I can get you firmware for 42.8# injectors that will work with anything from 6psi to 20psi of boost. I don't recomend anything over 13-15psi of boost turbo on a stock motor and that is really pushing it.

Software starts at $600.

\i think an obd conversion would require ALOT of downtime and cash not going that route haha

should i go with the high flow for 40 bucks more?

Your call on that. I didn't but they were out of stock so they sent me the high flow.

nice another turbo TI thats sickkkk

sorry bro I'm not a ti e36 4 dr m42 ur turbo build was awsome btw u and john are the main reason this is happening is ur build done yet. I wish I could do a tune like u guys have

im not done yet :( im still buying all the parts i need :eek:

haha ah man. i gues id be on the same boat as you if i was going tune right off the bat. Just bought IPcapitals fmu hopefully it will work. That just leaves three things the scavenge pump, oil pan weld, and gasket. Idk if i should get a new pan or not it would reduce down time which would be good. I only really have 3 days to do this build and if i screw up i wont have anyway to get to class. by the time i buy those other parts i need i think i will be at 1600 hopefully i wont need a professional install.
idk if i will need a boost guage right off the bat john does my wastegate really need a new spring?

What spring do you have in it? 44mm waste gates normally come with a 15psi spring installed and a spare 14psi spring.

If yours did come with the 14psi spring drop that one in so you can drop to 9psi by putting boost pressure to the bottom nipple on the waste gate otherwise you will over boost and melt pistons, bend rods or worst.

I think your stock injectors are 19# and don't flow enough to handle boost over 9-10psi no matter how high you jack the fuel pressure with the RRFP.

Also 3 days on the install is real tight. Good luck on that

thx i was talking to patrick at pro imports today he quoted me 1300-1600 on the install and cant garuntee me anything idk if i want to have that security of them doing it or just try my luck i really cant have it down for more than 3 max.
how and hwere did you guys tap your oil lines and do u know if my blow off valve has to be welded to my charge pipe or if it comes ready to go

PM sent on oil lines. Blow off valve is mostly purchased already mounted to charge pipe

update got the rrpfr from ipcapital thx for speedy shipping

update for anyone interested got my gasket and turbo oil scavenge pump today everything but a the boost guage is here taking the car into the shop for install next thursday hopefully any one know what i might be looking at dynoing with 8/9 psi on stock internals. m42. turbo peeps anything to watch out for problems preventative maintenance to do. what to do post turbo to keep it nice and good

I predict with good tuning 240rwhp @ 9psi

1. Change oil every 3-4 thousand miles, sooner if you can afford it. I like to do it around 2,500. Turbos are hard on oil
2. Use synthetic oil for turbo life. I use Mobil 15w-50
3. Minimum 40 seconds idle time before shut down to cool turbo and avoid oil boiling and caking in turbine bearings
4. Always run 93 octane
5. If you have a DISA valve (I don't think you do on a M42) remove it.
6. PCV system needs a check valve in it to stop boost blow back.
7. Be prepared for lots of broken driveline parts, i.e. Guibo, axles shaft bolts, clutch, driveshaft u-joints. Anything that was ok but had some wear will break now.
8. Don't get greddy with boost and run more until those 19# injectors are changed for larger 30# or even 42.8#.
9. Don't use any oil additives. Only straight oil.
10. ***Most important*** Motor will always run it's best right before it blows up. If you get a boost leak going to the bottom of your wastegate you will be saying "man my car is running so good". It is because you boosting 14psi with that boost leak. If the car picks up power look for issues with too much boost, lean condition (not enough fuel pressure), etc.

That's about all I can think of right now.

Also what's the deal you don't own a camera? It wuld be nice to see lots of pictures...

Best of luck

my motor had synthetic in it once and there were problems with the hydraulic lifters engine sounded like it was gonna die so i switched back to regular and it sounded brand new. lol about the camera all i can offer is pictures of parts hahaha nothing exciting like your build or jeans haha

I need pictures of your under side. I heard they cut your frame. Can you get some and post them?

yeah im getting the car tommorow took it for a test drive today without a filter. Its been pouring last 3 days and my tires are bald. I think i am running much more than 7 psi we could not get traction in 3rd even. regardless of the other conditions. It doesnt have a blowoff valve either he for some reason could not get it to work. It screwed with the barn door flap for some reason and wouldnt idle right. He said the wastegate should keep from to much getting stuck in the charge pipe at 7 psi it shouldnt be an issue. Later down the line i can figure out a way to get the blow off to work. This build looks so diff from you car john its absurd. I am hoping you can make it out here one weekend and do some fine tuning on my setup. I wanna swith to a digital system in a few months iv been looking into the WAR set up. What literature should i read i wanna know what im getting into this time around

I telling you as a concerned person get a blow off valve on there now. That turbo you have will spool and as soon as you let off the waste gate closes and with a spooled turbo it can slam 30+ pounds on the TB when that gate closes. Put a blow off anywhere between the turbo and the MAF. It can be before the intercooler, I mean anywhere before you start to meter air. You have at least 4 foot of pipe to put one on so it should be easy. If you don't you will blow intercooler hoses and worst break a butterfly in the TB and send parts into the motor, bend a butterfly and have a run-away motor. This is a serious matter with a big turbo your not running a OEM VW golf turbo it's a GT-30/70 bad boy and makes big boost that needs to be controlled and dumped or stuff will break. Please install a cheep blow-off asap, before you do any runs with it...

Best, John S

Pictures???

JB, in the setup he describes and you point out the need for the blow-off valve, on the BMW does it care if you blow off to atmosphere or back to the inlet air tube?

One of the turbo cars I'm working on (S13 Nissan 1800) has always required the dump into the tube, rather than vent to outside or it spikes the mixture hard, goes WAYYY rich. Wondered is the 318 motor did the same thing?

Dave

As long as you dump before the MAF your fine. I actually prefer to dump before the MAF so the only air going in the engine is metered and the correct fuel mixture is applied. We boost far away from the Throttle body and ram that air through a intercooler then our sensors then the throttle body so it's way better to dump the boost spike way before any metering or sensors. Keeps the computer very happy like this. Blow off to atmosphere, sounds cool too. There are no sensors in the inlet tube so no need to tap into it but you could if you wanted

In this picture you can see my blow off right before my MAF sensor so the boost is blown to atmosphere before it is metered. Blow-off before any sensors is how it works on these BMW's:

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/d...ssembly186.jpg

lil teaser pic for you guys till i can manage some real legit ones

Makes sense! thanks! Its a different twist than what we did but I can see the way it would work.

I put the air flow meter between the air filter and the turbo, works great
(Same as stock setup this car was always a turbo...).
But I have to dump the blow off after the meter before the turbo to get it tunable.

Accomplishes the same thing but I can see yours maybe being more accurate cause its metering at the tb...

Just what I needed another intake experiment... lol

Thanks

Dave

okay couple things i noticed.

Johnboy is running what is called a "blowthru" maf setup. normally in a turbo setup on a maf car, the maf is mounted before the intake mouth of the turbo. i have done it both ways on a lot of 240sx's and it doesnt seem to change the tune much. the car does respond better with a blowthru to an open air vented blowoff valve though.

next thing that worries me is running a 44mm wastegate, using a 14 psi spring and trying to "turn the boost down" to 8-9 psi. it doesnt work that way. the spring sets a minimum boost pressure required to open the wastegate and regulate the boost level. it is not possible to run less boost than the pressure of the spring installed in the gate. in other words, if you want to run 8 psi, install a .5 bar spring from tial, and turn it up with the boost controller to 8 psi. the way a boost controller works, either manual or electric, is to "fool" the wastegate into only seeing the amount of vacuum you want it to, and add to the spring pressure and keep the valve closed longer.

you guys are doing well breaking ground here, just trying to pass on 10+ yrs of experience building turbo cars and i HTH.

Jeff
....resisting the urge to turbo the Ti when i finally get one...

sorry for the OT, but here is a pic i snapped of the racecar yesterday while i was shooting the Ti
very dirty.. hasnt been touched since the last comp i ran in oct.
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3...i/9246f510.jpg

my old setup, full custom with 2 porsche kkk k26 turbos and 2 tial 38mm wg's
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3...t/IMG_1914.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3...t/IMG_1919.jpg
ran in the car for 4 yrs, no problems
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3...t/IMG_1941.jpg

new stuff GT62 powerhouse racing stage 2 turbo, tial 44mm wg, tubular mani
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3...f/IMG_2024.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l3...f/IMG_2022.jpg

fwiw, i built the current setup for less than the 1400.00 shipped i sold the twins kit for... shop around.

sorry for the OT

I agree 100% on the WG spring. I run a 14psi cause I normally run 15psi boost and turn it up with the boost controller. I would like to see these guys installing the small springs and using boost to raise their WG crack pressure but the WG's there buying are coing with a 14psi and 15psi spring. All it will take is a burned or blown off boost hose to the wastegate and boost will be at whatever spring pressure you have so your engine will run the best it ever did then "BOOM"

glad we are on the same page then john. I'm still trying to understand why these kits are made/sold with a 44mm wg.. :confused:

the 60-1 in that kit is a decent turbo for the money, but others can be had that will make more power at less boost..

if i were sizing a turbo for a stock bottom end Ti, i'd probably go all the way down to a .48 exhaust housing and 50 trim compressor.. nearly instant spool.. and a 38mm tial wastegate to use the smaller .5 bar spring.

the guys that did the install said that the blow off valve when mounted would result in screwy idol he coudnt figure out why. im going to go out an play wiht it later today. ( i have to finish a 3 page paper first). one problem i noticed last night when raging on it after i put in the autometer and boost controller was oil was leaking out of my oil cap. original theory was okay this is just an old cap new amount of pressure has cause this problem. but i thought a little more and realized what if its the result of their beign no place for charge to go without the bov what you guys think. other thing is i notice in first and second the autometer now never shows past 5 or 7 but in 3rd and 4th it creeps up to 9 or 10 and in 5th i dont really hit boost.

I agree. What happened here is I've got a 2.1L M44 with a M47 deisel crank and my motor is rated at 500hp, got the Hyabusa drag springs in the heads, H-beam rods. Everything for a nasty turbo motor...Marko and Blowin 4 too.

I decided on the T3 GT-30/70 with a .63 A/R. My plan is to boost 25psi when I get traction. Anything over 17psi right now is a 1/8 mile spin on 245/40-17's AAA traction radials in my car. I was one of the first to do it with the OBX and retain everything BMW....A/C, quiet, drivability, mileage, stock DME modified to run larger injectors, no RRFPR, ETC. It total comfort and nasty power. People and EBay are following and some might be mis-lead by which turbo I used.

Tuning is the key when going over 8psi on our stock 19psi injectors. With a tune you just drop in 42.8# Lucas Blue strip injectors and a M3 MAF sensor and you have a system that can handle fuel & timing for 4 to 20psi.

We and I mean me and a few on the board have run 15+ psi on the stock bottom end on Nick G's stage 3 software. I did it for 33,000 miles on a motor that was sent in as a core at 173,000 miles and it was in good condition.

The key is larger injectors and tuning plus running methenol when not intercooled like with a DASC. On turbo no one knows what the stock bottom end can take on turbo, but I think 13-15psi is pushing it. I've put 30 psi to my Metric 2.1L and it held together although traction was horrible.

Common you are boosting into your crank case. You need to install a mechanical PCV on the end of you PCV hose and mate that to the valve cover. If you need pictures I will take them.

I blew oil everywhere when I sent boost into the crank case. oil was everywhere...

What is hapenning is when you boost the BMW PCV valve is not made to handle boost so it allows the boost to pressurize the crank case and that makes oil escape for everywhere. If you dip-stick tube was out your would get a fountain of oil shoot out of it. You need to stop the boost from that PCV with a one-way valve. I use a old style PCV from a V8 Chevy to slam shut and block that boost from entering the crank case.

john if you can that would be helpfull im going to try and solve the problem today pet store sells one way valve for fish tanks prob go out to get htat in the next few hours.

i doubt the fishtank valve is going to do the job for you. they are sized for vacuum lines, the pcv in most cars is about 3/8" to at leasy 1/4" ID.

honda pcv's could be used also i'd guess. they are pretty strong and have a hose fitting on one side and a fitting to push thru a valve cover grommet on the other that a hose could be attached to. another choice is the check valve that is installed in most brake booster hoses, the one that runs from a vacuum source to the brake booster on the firewall.

persian.. whatever you do, dont push the car hard until you fix this. pressurizing the crankcase is a SURE way to start springin leaks EVERYWHERE.

worst case will be, you will start blowing oil out the exhaust big time and that is a mess.. gets in the exhaust packing..etc. builder should have known this..

k so what exactly do i look for and where
a 3/8" pcv valve, can i get it at a store like today or will i have to order it.
ps thanks for all the help guys really do appreciate it this forums been there every step of the way

what you are really in need of is just a check vlave, which is all a PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) valve is.

i'll defer to John or some other guys here, b/c the 318ti is now gone from my driveway, or i could go look at the size. but all you will do is cut the current PCV hose and put the check valve inline. Basically, you want to be able to vent the crankcase vapors thru the hose in the intake mani to be reburnt in the engine, but at the same time, slam the door on boost trying to come back thru that same hose into the engine. So on the check valve most will have an arrow.. install the valve in the hose so the arrow points away from the valvecover.

pretty sure for this app that the honda brake booster check valve would be perfect. just go to the parts store and grab one.. late 80s civic would be good and cheap too.