Comprehensive Brake Info Thread
 

FRONT ROTORS

286 mm x 12 mm Solid
95-3/98 318ti

286 mm x 22 mm Vented
4/98+ 318ti
E36 323 coupe, convertible
E36 325 sedan, coupe, convertible
E36 328 sedan, coupe, convertible
E46 323 sedan, coupe
Z3 2.3, 2.5, 2.8 coupe/roadster

300 mm x 22 mm Vented
E46 323 convertible, touring
E46 325 sedan, coupe, convertible
E46 328 sedan, coupe
Z3 3.0

315 mm x 28 mm Vented
E36 M3 sedan, coupe, convertible
Z3 M Coupe
Z3 M Roadster

325 mm x 25 mm Vented
E46 330 sedan, coupe, convertible

325 mm x 28 mm Vented
E46 M3 coupe, convertible

345 mm x 28 mm Floating/Vented
E46 M3 Competition Package (US)
E46 M3 European

REAR ROTORS

272 mm x 10 mm Solid
E36 318ti (all)
Z3 (all non M models)

280 mm x 10 mm Solid
E36 323 coupe
E36 325 sedan, coupe, convertible
E36 328 sedan, coupe

276 mm x 19 mm Vented
E36 323 convertible
E36 328 convertible
E46 323 sedan, coupe

294 mm x 19 mm Vented
E46 323 convertible, touring
E46 325 sedan, coupe, convertible, touring
E46 328 sedan, coupe

312 mm x 20 mm Vented
E36 M3 sedan, coupe, convertible
Z3 M Coupe
Z3 M Roadster

320 mm x 22 mm Vented
E46 330 sedan, coupe, convertible

328 mm x 20 mm Vented
E46 M3 coupe, convertible

FRONT PADS

Part # 34 11 6 761 242 or 34 11 6 761 244
E36 318 sedan, coupe, convertible, compact
E36 323 coupe, convertible
E36 325 sedan, coupe, convertible
E36 328 sedan, coupe, convertible
E46 323 sedan, coupe, convertible, touring
E46 325 sedan, coupe, convertible, touring
E46 328 sedan, coupe

Part # 34 11 1 162 535
E36 M3 sedan, coupe, convertible
M Coupe
M Roadster

Part # 34 11 6 779 652
E46 330 sedan, coupe, convertible

Part # 34 11 2 282 416
E46 M3 coupe, convertible

Part # 34 11 2 282 995
E46 M3 Competition Package coupe

REAR PADS

Part # 34 21 6 761 238 or 34 21 6 761 239
E36 318 sedan, coupe, convertible, compact
E36 323 coupe
E36 325 sedan, coupe, convertible
E36 328 sedan, coupe

NOTES:

1) E36 M3, M Coupe, and M Roadster (S52 and S54) FRONT parts will only fit with the ///M spec spindles on all E36 318, 323, 325, 328 models.

2) The only upgrade for the rear of the 318ti is by swapping in the entire rear of a M Coupe or M Roadster (spendy).

3) Most all E36 and E46 non M models have front interchangeability. Meaning with the proper caliper and carriers any front kit will fit other models. Examples:
E46 330 fronts on any E36 model
E46 325 fronts on any E36 model

4) A note on Stainless Steel Lines
-Understeer (Chris) made a statement that *all* E36 SS line kits should fit the same cars (6 piece kits), but I find it interesting that Turner Motorsport lists a separate 318ti category. Supposedly all E36 rear 4 line kits have the same part numbers. Anyways, the following are some of the popular kits available for our cars.

UUC: $115
Tire Rack (Goodridge): $164
HMS Motorsport (Goodridge): $152
Bavauto: $120
Turner Motorsport: $129

5) 17" clears anything bellow 325mm; 16" rims clear anything below 300mm; 15" clear anything below 286mm

6) the 286mm vented and 300mm vented use the same caliper, but different caliper carriers
-The thickness of the rotor is the same for the 286mm and the 300mm as well as the breaking surface. Same braking surface of the 286mm solid which means same pads as the 318ti. The only difference between the 286mm vented and the 300mm vented setup is the carrirer: on the 300mm the carrier is larger and relocate the caliper 7mm outer.

7) 286mm solid, 286mm vented, and 300mm vented use the same pads


Credit to "lpcapital" from 318ti.org for helpful added notes. Thanks bud. :)

Awesome write-up, very good info. Can we sticky this?

Also, may I suggest listing the wheel sizes needed to clear the different brake upgrades?

E46 M3 rotors fit the same size hubs/spindles as the E46 non-M cars. So the E46 M3 rotors fit without any modification needed. You would need a custom brackets to make M3 calipers fit.

The UUC Wilwood brake kit for E36 cars uses E46 M3 rotors.

Just a couple notes based on my research...

1) 17" clears anything bellow 325mm; 16" rims clear anything below 300mm; 15" clear anything below 286mm

2) for what it matters it's only the 323 sedan that has 286 front rotors; all other 323s (convertible, coupe, and touring) have 300mm front rotors

3) the 286mm vented and 300mm vented use the same caliper, but different caliper carriers

4) 286mm solid, 286mm vented, and 300mm vented use the same pads

5) I think that no rear brakes are compatible with the 318ti/Z3 hub; you can swap in the ///M roadster/coupe rotors, but it requires replacing the wheel hub; I was told, but never confirmed, that E46 rear bares would fit if the parking brake shoes are removed (I can't confirm nor deny this).

7) I'm not sure that rotors will actually be swappable between models as the hub/offset might be different. For example, although the Z4 2.5 and the Z3 2.3/2.5i/2.8 used the same calipers & carriers for the 286mm setting, the rotors p/n for the Z4 is different form the Z3...

8) If I may suggest, I would actually reverse the chart in the sense of putting the rotor size as title and the compatible models below.

My thought exactly

I know there is something on these lines written up somewhere. bf.c?

Yeah, that is what I meant by "won't fit." Size isn't the issue, it's the "custom" part.

And thanks for the sticky Steven, I hope this helps some others out.

Thank you for the detailed input. I will add that the E46 323 sedan has the smaller brakes vs the coupe/convert. As far as wheel size, I wonder if a 15" wheel would fit under a E46 325 300 mm rotor? Didn't 15" come stock or was that just in the early E46 base sedans? To be safe, for sure use 17's with any E36 M3, M coupe, M roady, 330 front brake upgrade. *Some* 16's fit, but it's not worth the effort imo.

So the E46 325 with the 300 mm vented has the exact same caliper as all E36 325/328 models? Good info. I am currently looking at a great condition used set of E46 325 calipers/carriers for under $100. I assume I will just order the 300 mm vented E46 blanks for front rotors. By assume, I mean I doubt the 286 mm vented fit right?

EDIT: It seems the 323ci coupes do not use the 300 mm larger front rotors. The only 323 E46 models to do so are the convertible and the touring.

EDIT(2): I took your advice and totally redid the chart. This has taken me some time, so I hope all of you get some use out of it.

Not on 300mm. I know that the Z3 3.0i with 300mm front rotors has a 16" spare tire as opposed to the traditional 15" of all the other Z3. I actually tried to rescue a friend with a flat on his Z4 3.0i with 294mm rear rotors and the caliper was rubbing against the rim (I had to run on the donut and give him one of my 16"). Same with all E46: they have a 16" spare. The 323i sedan is the only one that lists 15" as alloy or spare rim.

Yes: the thickness of the rotor is the same for the 286mm and the 300mm as well as the breaking surface. Same braking surface of the 286mm solid which means same pads as the 318ti. The only difference between the 286mm vented and the 300mm vented setup is the carrirer: on the 300mm the carrier is larger and relocate the caliper 7mm outer.

286mm won't fit if you're using the 300mm carrier. I would actually recommend using the Z3 3.0i rotors as the front wheel hub of the Z3 is the same of the 318ti. They will fit for sure. E46 rotors might not fit... But I never tried it; I came to this conclusion by comparing parts number on RealOEM; I'm not sure if it's just a BMW thing or also aftermarket rotors are different.

You're right, I was looking at the wrong printout.

I didn't go any larger than 300mm cuz I have 16" on my Z3 and not planing to go any bigger, so 300mm was all I could fit. However keep in mind that going any larger in the front would probablly mess up the front/rear bias and known working options for the rear are limited to the ///M roadster. This upgrade, however requires replacing several other parts in the rear axle as well as the master brake cylinder that on the ///M is bigger. If you touch the mater cylinder, the bleeding would require using the GT1 to activate the ASC pump...

On day I would like to remove the rear brakes from the Z4 and see how they fit on the Z3. I'm just curious to see if there's any way to make it work.

Thanks!!! I can email a spreadsheet I did

Thanks again for more info lpcapital, I referenced you in the thread. :)

I just added front brake pad info, will do rears tomorrow. :)

It is pretty cool to know how many models of front/rear pads work for our little ti's. Opens up the market for buying good pads tenfold.

Just thought I'd throw in my observations..

I'm running the vented 300mm E46 325i Calipers/Carriers. I bought standard E46 325i rotors and they fit just fine. I run 16" E36 Sport Package wheels and there's about 3/16" of clearance, so if you go that route kiss cheap 15" tires goodbye.

^ Thank you for your input.

Will an e46 16" spare fit under a 96 ti?
 

I am getting ready to put the 300mm rotor setup on my 96 Sport and I am wondering if the 16" spare wheel/tire from an e46 325/328 will fit the spare tire tray/mount under my car? My 15" tire is shot anyway.

Some guys with Jeeps are using a little different trick,

Use bead adhesive (Tire shops that do tractor tires should have it).
Mount the tire up using the adhesive and pump it up and let sit over night.
Deflate the tire and it will "mush" into the spare tire tray.
Carry a can of compressed air to fill it up when needed.

Dave

all this and still can't find if Ti calipers are specific or interchangeable with 323 325 328

286 mm x 12 mm Solid
95-3/98 318ti

286 mm x 22 mm Vented
4/98+ 318ti
E36 323 coupe, convertible
E36 325 sedan, coupe, convertible
E36 328 sedan, coupe, convertible
E46 323 sedan, coupe
Z3 2.3, 2.5, 2.8 coupe/roadster

I'm pretty sure the spindles on the ti didn't change over the production run, so the list above answers your question. Any of the E36 front calipers, except the M3, should bolt right up to the ti spindles. You'll obviously need the vented rotors but that should be it.

sorry , my bad, was thinking for the rears

Rears are ti specific, a common upgrade is to buy M Coupe/Roadster trailing arms and brakes.

thanks , but not looking to upgrade, just renewing

4)

Anyone have any experience with these? do you get what you pay for? or are they all pretty much the same? I'm looking to do an upgrade to m3 spindle/rotors, and I wanna do lines while I am at it. I already have 17" rims that will fit, and the m3 stuff came off my M3 may she rest in pieces.

I've been looking around and can't seem to find the answer to this question:
I want to switch from the stock '95 ti brake setup to the '95 m3 spindle hub/rotor, setup... will this change wheelbase/offset?
I know the stock offset of the wheels is 38mm vs 41mm on the ti vs m3 BUT I don't know if thats due to other factors or if its all in the spindle/hub making the difference, or if they just wanted the m3 to have a different wider stance without changing the hub design or something...

The reason I ask is because I will have to to put on different rims with the bigger brakes, I have the H&R coilovers, but the coilovers changed the geometry a little making the 17"x9" rims that I have not fit (by about 3-5mm, rubbing on the coil spring) if the slotted rotor/hub etc of the '95 m3 places the mounting point of the hub as little as 5-7mm outward I probably won't need to buy spacers and save some buck. otherwise I will need the Turner motorsport hub extenders and 7.5mm spacers. Anyone have any clue about the differences in the geometry?
The one thing I did find was that the '95m3 has a little more camber built into the spindle I think so that may change things a little too, and I am planning on replacing the control arms while I am at it, but am not sure if upgrading to the M3 arms will change things too... UGH... I know too many quesTIons but any help would be appreciated before I start ordering the wrong parts for the swap.

The difference in geometry comes from offset control arm bushings and strut bearings. The spindle has nothing to do with it. The reason you need bigger wheels is to clear the calipers since they sit further away from the hub due to the rotors being larger in diameter. Your 17x9" wheels probably rub on the coil for two reasons. 1, they're much wider than a stock wheel and 2, you probably need a lower offset(which may require you to roll your fenders).

BimmerBum: $109.99

All E36 non-M Models take the same line set.

I know the caliper is bigger, hence one of the reasons I got the bigger rims, to clear it. I also wanted to get a bit more traction with the m3 motor, the stock size steelies aren't doing it for me, thouhg I guess 17X9 is a little big... oh well I expected to have to roll the fender.

So what you are saying is there is no offset difference between a '95 e36 m3 and a '95 e36 318ti, despite it being a different spindle and rotor, from the chart going from a 286 x 12mm solid to a 315 x 28mm vented? the wheelbase for the two cars is identical? except I know the stock Wheel offsets which are 38 and 41 respecitvely if I remember correctly?

I know you may not know what BMW was thinking when they did it but... do they have different wheel offsets just to allow the m3 a wider stance and accomodate a larger wheel, but not have anything to do with where the hub actually is... like if I measured hub to hub in the front of an M3 and a 318ti it would be exactly the same distance (neglecting individual car to car differences because of manufacturing tolerances and worn parts)

The next question I have is...(and I apologize it prob doesn't belong in the brake thread, but it is related) must I have the m3 control arms to fit the spindle and also the offset control arm bushings? or can I just bolt on with the 318ti control arm centered bushing, because I don't want the extra camber right now from the m3 because lowering the car already changes the camber angle ...

I really have been trying to do my research but haven't come up with a difinitive answer yet. I will probbaly just order the TMS hub extender and 7.5mm spacer and call it a day... but I will still need to know about the control arms.
The help is greatly appreciated.

Its pretty common for a wide wheel to rub the coilover spring, most guys with M3s have that problem too. You can either use a spacer or get a shorter spring.

Stock ti offset is 46 for the 16x7 sport wheels, M3 is 41 f/r for the staggered DSIIs/Contours.

I run 17x8.5 et41 wheels on my car and they clear the coilover by only a few mm. I can easily see a 17x9 hitting the coilover if the offset is still 41.

Check out posts #80 and 96 in this thread for control arm differences.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...1343977&page=4

I think an easier way to ask my question is... Is there a difference in m3 vs 318ti in the distance between the wheel well and the hub due to the different spindle and rotor depths? I will Check out the info for the CAs thanks for that.

No. The surface on the rotor that the wheel bolts to on both the M3 and the ti are exactly the same distance apart from left to right. Don't get confused by rotor thickness... it refers to the friction surface.

Also the larger diameter wheels are needed because of the rotors, not the calipers, but there are a few 16 inch wheels that will work on M3 brakes.

Thank you for the clarification. I got the same answer earlier today from a BMW dealer/shop/race garage so I ordered the TMS 7.5mm spacer and SS brake line kit. And I will go with the Meyle HD lower control arms for the 318ti(non m3 e36) with a solid bushing to tighten it all up. Without adding caster and we'll see if it makes more sense to go with the centered or offset bushings to adjust the camber back closer to 0 or keep some negative etc...Hopefully it will all fit and I will have the shop roll the fenders too. I'll let you know if I run into any more problems to help anyone out there trying to do the same thing with the bigger 17 x 9 rims w/ stock m3 41mm offset (I think they are 41 anyway) m3 brakes etc... Thanks for all the help and useful links.

FWIW, My style 5's rubbed on my M3 calipers. The calipers straddle the rotors, so they'd hit the wheel long before the rotor could.

Confused
 

So I have been reading this thread in an attempt to get a handle on what my options are for upgrading the front brakes on my 99 ti.

If I understand what is outlined in the thread, if I were to use a rotor that is over 300mm, I would have to increase my wheel size from 16 to 17 inches.

But Turner Motorsports offers a Brembo Big Brake kit with 320mm rotors that shows it works with 16 inch wheels http://goo.gl/nIYgO (lines 2 & 3)

What am I missing?

By using 300mm rotors (E46 328) and the corresponding caliper carriers you can upgrade run the 300mm brakes. They only require 16inch wheels.

You cannot go by just rotor size to determine what size wheels you can use. The caliper will be the determining factor as the caliper sticks out further than the rotor will.

OK, but is the E46 328 caliper an upgrade over the stock ti caliper? The reason I ask is in the notes of the very first post in this thread it states "The thickness of the rotor is the same for the 286mm and the 300mm as well as the breaking surface." So that makes it sound to me that by simply moving to a slightly larger rotor, I'm not gaining anything.

Trust me, if I can upgrade the front brakes and not spend $1,800 by going to a big brake kit, I'm all for it!

The calipers on the E36 325/328 are the same on the calipers on the E46 325/328 so there is no upgrade to the caliper itself. That does not mean the 300mm upgrade is not an upgrade... in the most basic terms BMW would not have bothered if it was not an improvement. To be a little more technical you are increasing the size of the friction surface, this allows for better cooling which limits brake fade.

That said, the 300mm brake upgrade is the cheapest possible upgrade you can do for your 286mm brakes so you will not find much difference, especially in daily driving.

I have been through 3 brake upgrades on my E46 wagon and each one cost more than the last but each one worked far better than the last. I'm currently running a Porsche/Brembo set up and it is amazing. I will be running the same set up on my S50ti.

Thank you. I appreciate the explanation.

Sorry guys if I missed the info on this thread relating to upgrading the REAR calipers to E36 M3 units. From what I read and understand, besides upgrading the master (since I'm doing front and rear upgrade), in order to install the rears, I would need Z3 M coupe or roadster trailing arms. Are there any other parts needed to complete the swap to E36 M3 units in the REAR? Are there any other options possible to complete this swap besides the use of the Z3 M trailing arms? I read somewhere that E30 trailing arms can be used with Z3 hubs, is this true?
Thank you all for your help, and patience with us noobs!

just did my front brakes on my 318ti today. it helps to pay attention to the fact that you have to remove the guide pins to get it all back together. 30 min job became a 3 hour job real quick until i washed my hands, opened up the old laptop and reread the directions. ohhh. that.

You should not need to remove the guide pins... just make sure you lube them when you have them apart.

Regardless, glad you finished the job!

now i just realized what you are getting at. but i assume then that the floating part of the caliper gets lowered down with the guid pins on and then lowered down on top of the pads that are already in place?

When I change brake pads:

1) Remove the caliper and carrier
2) Remove the old pads
3) Separate the caliper from the carrier
4) Compress the caliper piston all the way (you will need to have the brake fluid cap off for this part)
5) Clean the carrier where the ears on the pads reside
6) Lube the guide pins
7) Put the carrier back on the caliper
8) Install the inside pad that clips into the caliper piston
9) Install the outside pad
10) Slide over the rotor and bolt back on
11) Install the spring clip
12) Reinstall the brake fluid cap (when I'm done changing all the pads I'm going to change)

originally i tried to follow exactly what you have listed (also i hope this is where we discuss this and i am not cluttering this thread) but with the piston side pad in i couldn't get the other pad to go in. it was about a full mm too big. perhaps the aftermarket pads i got were slightly too big? the only way to get it all to fit was to take the pins off, drop the pads in, drop the carrier on, install pins, slide over rotor. it was killing me.

but as a side note, i love driving this car so much, its even more fun than the mg i used to have when i was in high school. best $1000 i ever spent.

Do you have solid rotors? It has been a few years since I have swapped pads on those calipers maybe they have less room to work?

All that matters is that it's done. Enjoy!