warm engine start problem.
 

Ok guys my 94 318 will start every morning fine . turn it on for 30 seconds shut it off restart's fine 4 0r 5 times . as soon as it warms up it wont restart unless i wait 5 minutes or hold the pedal open and crank it for 30 seconds i believe it's a bad crank sensor or coil pack . maybe even a bad dme relay any feed back will help crank shaft sensor on it's way hope that solves the problem. every thing else is new except for the coils . thanks

I would think it is a relay. Crank sensor would most likely not screw up on a constant basis, also I don't think they stop working then start working. They usually die and never work again.

Might be a hard one to track down with a relay sticking or maybe it is in the tune. Maybe too much enrichment when the car is warm.

I had the same issue with my car when the DME temp sendor was not plugged in fully. It was telling the DME the car was ice cold so it always started fine when it was cold but after it warmed up it was 30 seconds of cranking with wide-open throttle to clear out the flooded motor from enrichment fuel. It never threw a code for some reason but Barrie found the temp sendor issue when looking at the values in INPA.

John S

. I think your right about the relay now I'm getting code 1211 bad ecu so I pulled the plug after worm up found the spark was very weak let it cool down had strong spark car fired right up ordering relay .

Sounds kinds odd and I hope that is the issue. You might be on a chase to find this issue, relays normally work or they don't. You should not get weak spark, either no spark or good spark.

Best of luck finding it, John S

lol i been chasing it for a month trying relay if that dont work should have my crank sensn today. if both dont work has to be my coils i bought them used from ebay who knows what they been thru!!!!

I would like to say your unloader realy is not unloading and causing too much load and not enough power to your coils to start the motor when it is cranking. Just my thought since the unloader cuts all power except fuel, DME, spark and starter while cranking. If all other items are on like radio lights and all; there is too much draw to get the coils saturated for a good blue spark.

Opinon only

John S

hummm which relay is the underload that sounds like the problem right there.

This hot engine start is killing me new crank sensor new cam sensor ,cold start sensor ,dme /fuel relay coil/plugs swap ecu swap clean all body grounds & battery ternimals few things left engine temp sensor, 02 sensor . could it be bad ignition cylinder going to trace wire harns and conectors .car runs super good idles great pulls like crazy as soon has i shut her down after a hard run will not start till cools down help please ....

Engine temp sendor. If this is bad and tells the DME the engine is cols all the time is will be a bear to start when warm. I had this issue when my sensor was unplugged and it took like 30 seconds of cranking or more to start my car when it was warm. Bad temp sensor or unplugged will cause starting issues like you are having.

Unloader relay on my car is located in with the DME. It is the only relay in the DME compartment. When you crank your car all accessories should turn off until your done cranking...

Can't find any info about up loader I have a new cold start sensor I think it 02 sensor they say 02 don't start working till car warms up that the cold stat monitor engine then 02 takes over when hot I think it sending a rich signal to the injector pulse I'll find out got one coming .

It is not the O2. Please trust me on this. Yo have a temp sensor on the head that tells the DME the head temp. That would be the issue on a warm start up issue. Have you changed it? Also A ELM-323 will detect this issue or INPA which is how I found out I had the issue

Does all you accessories stay on whenyou crank the car? radio, interior lights, head lights? If so your unloader is not working correctly and you might not have enough juice to fire your coil correctly...Weak spark like you said you had on a hot start

Head temp sensor first though since I think that is the issue. Ok

JohnS

When test the coil I have 12.53 volts when I crank drops to 9.5 then steady 10.6. Not good!

Mine drops in the low 10 volts when cranking but no start issues.

Are you running after market coils?

Make sure you check your head temp sendor cause it sounds to me like your car is getting too much enrichment on hot start which would be the head temp sendor. ***The coil low voltage issue would cause issues with cold starts too.***

Another thing maybe a bad starter... check the voltage on a cold start and if it is much higher then your starter is bad and drawing too many amps when it is hot. I've had a bad starter when it was hot it would draw big amps due to a warped armature this was not a BMW but can happen to any starter. If the starter has low voltage on a cold start and starts the car fine then you need to go to my head temp sensor therory.

my start is about 3 weeks old its oem .2 last things im going to try there are to sensor on the head one is cold start injector already changed then there is the hot temp sending unit i dont think that matter but im going to change it . 2nd new coils cause one set is eom but used 2nd set is aftermarket but older could have went bad ..i noticed all coils read .6 ohms cold but when i test them hot the jump from .7-8 -9 ohms never a steady # back in forth from .7-.8 . 9 could 2 sets of coils be bad ... if that dont work tracing wiring into dash and ignition cylinder.

i think i found the prooblem when switching from one ecu to an other car start up every time a i think i have to bad ecu cause engine is warm fires up every time as soon as i the ecu starts to heat up car will have start problems both ecus from ebay 70 bucks ea i need a test vechice.
OK so installed cold ecu car fires up 20 times swap back to hot ecu car floods wont start swap back cold ecu car starts fine engine hot soon as cold ecu get warn i get the same problem 2 bad ecu wtf ebay that explains why the last ecu i got from ebay had some chip that looked after market and the tabs looked pride open and for the orinal ecu i think i screwed it up for forgeting to shut off the key a couple times over night must have fried the resisters cuz my icv was stuck like it had heat froze ...

Wow I'm lost after this post too much info combined. Change or check youheadtemp sendor, and check cold cranking volt to ensure they are the same as hot cranking volts to eliminate the volt issue...

JohnS

problem sloved switched ecu with customers car starts up fine hot or cold and no more check engine light .. i could never get the ecu to disple 1444 it seems to be perfect i was getting code 1211 witch was ecu malfunction on both ecu's and with miler chip and ostrich all this time i thought the 1211 code was because of the chip not comunicating up to speed with the ecu ... from what miller told me . two bad ecu's from ebay wtf is the chace of the happing no wonder they where only 70 bucks hahahah stupid me!!!!! thanks for all your help john at lest i got all new parts to match my new motor..

spoke to soon tried my ecu's in other car ran's good this can mean only one thing car is to rich at hot start its not cold start sensor that's new so i guess i really need to work on idle fuel setting's and low tps setting maybe even play with idle timming ...

The head temp sensor controls both cold and hot fuel enrichment during starting. If the sensor is bad it will be good for cold starts and inject too much fuel during a hot start. I hate to keep harping on this but the head temp sendor will cause this exact issue

i have a new sensor i even put the old one back tested both so far i have 15 hrs of tryin to get this car to tune at idle and not flood even straced the wires to the ecu pulled my injector rial cranked over car injectors shot gas like a rain fall i have to pull the fuel relay just to get it started ..it idles good not rich and if i go to the software shut down the injectors they still pulse at start up .when i install ware chip it will start 7 out of 10 times but will still flood but not as bad . barrie says i have a bad laptop cause i cant get trace to work and we both ttied reinstalling the software i give up putting it back to stock and see if that problem gos away..

Your laptop is most likely all jacked up with issues which I have problems doing remote work or logging when they are like this. If you need a clean one I can send one to you for a deposit and you pay shipping both ways. This Laptop will be fresh with only INPA, ELM-232 and other BMW diag tools on it including teamviewer. John S

Let me know

***Better yet take your lap top in and get it cleaned.Remove all bots, spyware,etc and have the registry fixed. Should cost less then $70if it is real jacked up. Would be cheaper then shipping mine and yours would be fixed. Computers need to be cleaned and invalid reg entries deleted about every 6 months sometimes sooner if you're surfing pron like I do daily. It's not a twinkie and will last for 20 years it needs to be serviced

just put my stock injectors and afm car couldnt have ran any better .. im going to try in tune it with stock afm if it works good by maf ...my main problem it that theres no way to adjust start injector pulse ...car idles great pulls like crazy just that flood problem when hot.

That flood issue needs to be tuned out of your tune or you have a bad head temp sensor. It's that simple. Inpa or ELM will tell you if you have the temp sensor issue. If the sensor is good then you have a tune issue. I think it is the head temp sensor or wiring to the sensor. My opinon only, I think the tune is good since you have the same issue with Midnight and Miller, It's the head temp sensor

Can you read the temp off the sensor and see that it is reading correct coolant temps? Not off the gauge but to the DME, these are two separate curcuits.

You need zero enrichment when the car is hot...Maybe a pulse you would not be able to see

I bet if we put the Inpa or ELM on your car it would read -32 degrees at all times to the DME. My issue when I had hard start issues. Only found by Inpa, ELM would catch this too

Perfect start when cold, when hot crank and crank until it cleared the flood then it started...Bad head temp connection...Truth....Ask Barrie

John S

head temp is new 100% sure its the tune it start everytime with stock wouldnt this adjust my flood problem Barrie said i would never need to touch it once the a/f was dialed in . wouldn this tell my injector how much fuel to send at warm start or is it for cold start only? http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...1/IMG_4122.jpg

[QUOTE=blowin 4;298943]head temp is new 100% sure its the tune it start everytime with stock wouldnt this adjust my flood problem Barrie said i would never need to touch it once the a/f was dialed in . wouldn this tell my injector how much fuel to send at warm start or is it for cold start only?

wtf im so pissed right now !!!! i changed all the cells on the warm up cts and my flood problem from hell solved ... you know the ones Barrie said i wont need to ever touch hummm.... i just became a tuner lmfao thanks john for all the suport. 23 hrs and 80 bucks in gas hahahhahahah.
problem solved ..damn im good!! http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...1/IMG_4124.jpg

What the heck have you done to the CTS MAP? :eek:

You should never need to touch that map

Daniel you are all over the map, Literally LOL

lol that pic was from the first lap top that was jacked thats just a bad pic 2nd pic is i just scaled from 0 to 30

Ok that makes more sense

good luck!

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...1/IMG_4127.jpg
factory setting floods do to larger injector... http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...1/IMG_4126.jpg
my setting start's fine warm or cold this needs to be changed when up grading injectors or your going to get long pluse at crank whitch was my problem .. guess i was right for the first time...

car is acting up again i dont know what to do im going to make a tempary fuel pump kill switch till i figure out this problem the only way the car start is by pulling the fuel relay ...kinda emberrasing when u have to pop the hood and start yr car while ppl are checking out yr car in the parking lot of some store or gas station you think lol...

looks like im dealing with clinder wash down from a bad tune fml im getting 60 psi when car wont start 95 psi after clinder drys up 135 psi if i poor oil in the clinder .off to mm for rehone and new rings. thats if i didnt screw up the piston skirts and clinder walls ...

95psi with cylinder dry is correct. I've never had over 100psi on any cylinder and I have less then 2% leak-down on all cylinders. These are low compression motors and should not make 135psi at anytime.

I would do a leak-down before I pull and send the motor off...

John S

Talk to Jim this morning do to low cylinder compression and cams it's right dry 95 psi wet 115 psi I explained what's going on he said to things fuel pump check vales is bad do to car will start warn if restarted right away if sits for 30 seconds won't start unless hold gas and crank for 39 seconds for fuel to build up . Or cuz not much ppl now how to tune cold stArt values for this ecu that the injectors ate pulsing pig rich at crank cycle witch makes sence . He said I might need to run extra injectors in manifold when boosting and a 2nd fuel control system when I put back my 440 cc I don't have Amy start problems .

You are having warm start enrichment which is the issue. Either remove it from the tune or figure out why the DME is enriching when it is warm.

If it was fuel pump pressure valve you would not need to pull the relay for it to start right, you are injecting too much fuel on warm starts. 440cc injectors are smaller so it will inject less on the warm start so that is most likely the only reason they work ok.

I would fix the issue which is for some reason your DME thinks it needs enrichment fuel on warm starts...This is all related to your head temp sensor, if the sensor is good then the wiring has issues or the tune has warm start enrichment in it and needs to be removed from the tuning...

Simple issue too much fuel on warm starts. Fix the issue don't Jerry-Rig it with small injectors and a secondary kit that will need a standalone that is boost sensitive to run that motor.

freaking bad coil's
 

Heres the problem cold coil on left hot coil on right . low spark do to heat soak not enough spark to burn the gas...http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...h_IMG_4163.jpg

cars running great for over 2 weeks now pulled plugs today just to have a look noticed the groung tips are white! could that be cuz im only running one step colder plugs .also i see oil on the top of the piston in cylinder 1,3, & 4 (2) looks dry is that good or bad car dont smoke or burn oil im boosting 21 psi .

Don't worry about the ground straps how do the ceramic look. You want a slight off white color on the ceramic on the electrode tip. Ground straps can turn all different colors depending on the gas you burn.

On the piston color or tops it is most likely not oil you are seeing but carbon with gas on top. The only way to really inspect the tops of your pistons and be sure is remove the head or use a Boroscope and look through the spark plug holes. No one can look through a hole without a special tool and tell what is going on inside pn top of the pistons in our cars unless there is major obvious damage.

Take a macro picture of your plugs and post it with Mileage and I will tell you if lean/fat or fouled by oil or something else. Best way to read a motor is plugs with a hard run then push the clutch in and cut the motor and pull them and take the picture. Also are you logging with the LM-2? If so you should know if you are running lean/fat and that is the only thing to worry about other then timing being too high under boost

John S

my plugs
 

look's a little rich at idle and a little lean at wot seem like heat range is ok what can you tell me john... [IMG]http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m11/tazy_01/IMG_4424.jpg[/IMG
these plugs have about 60- 80 miles on them . ill take better pic's later. http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...1/IMG_4424.jpg

piston tops
 

top of my pistons after a bunch of pulls these pic's are from 2hours later the oil is dry and cooked from the heat i's fresh when i first pulled the plugs it's not speard around the pistons it's more of a line run down the piston witch makes me think the the valve steams are leaking maybe the motor not broke in fully i have exaclly 1,162 miles on it car sat for a year during turbo swap maybe i shouldnt boost over 12 pounds for an other 500 miles and see if that helps or maybe im just tripping oh and no all my cylinders read 85 psi and (4 )is at 100 psi wonder if it was a bad build or just not fully broke in any fed back please thank's http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...1/IMG_4420.jpg http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...IMG_4422-1.jpg looks like normal carbon build up on pic's but you can see a thick oil drop b 4 it drys up .