anyone have metric mechanic stroker 4

[e30sequel]

i am seriously contemplating an engine upgrade but wish to retain the light weight of the 4 and metric mech seems to have the solution - so, if anyone has done this or similar, then please let me know what you can about the day to day of this rebuild/upgrade. Thanks and much appreciated, ps-i want to do this to my 99 base (no roof) w/manual and i want to also avoid the DASC as it doesnt do anything about the internal AGING of the 1.9, which is where i want to attack it from so it can last me a long while. thanx again.

[mohaughn]

Nobody on here has an MM engine. There are one or two people over at m42club that have put in the m42 rally engine.

They are very nicely built, but very expensive engines. And they are essentially maxed out once you drop the $8-10k that the motor will cost you. I'd love to get one and really considered it, but ultimately i think an aluminum block 2.8 6 cylinder is the better choice. Not trying to convince you one way or the other, just giving you what my take was after spending a lot of time talking to MM and pricing out other options.

[dashate]

I’m picking up my MM upgraded ti on 1/14. In the meantime, here is what I do know…
1. MM offers a variable warranty with the upgrade that starts at 100% (first 90 days) and ends at 25% about 2 years later. (the warranty may not be as good if you just ship them the engine instead of the whole car – they prefer to do all of the work) No warranty with an engine swap.
2. The rebuild is considered “zero time” meaning you end up with a 0 mile engine. How many miles on the donor engine for the swap?
3. Other than a recommended clutch upgrade, which I already have, there are no other add-ons for the MM motor. The engine swap is only the beginning. You will also need to replace the transmission, driveshaft, front springs and struts and the radiator in order to accommodate the bigger and heavier six.
4. The MM rebuild runs from just under $9000 to just over $10,000. The difference is due to different requirements between the M42 and M44 engines and the associated OBD I & II chip sets. MM can work with the M42 crank. For the M44 they have to order a new crank and the OBD II is more difficult to re-program.
5. The MM rebuild delivers 195 to 205 HP. The engine swap will deliver about 30 more HP with the M motor, less, obviously, with a non-M motor.

So, in the end, the MM rebuild gets you a 200 HP 0 mile engine, normally aspirated, with a warranty. An engine swap here in Florida runs, at a minimum, $12,500. Because local shops charge by the hour (which is normal), the job can run as high as $14,000, unless you can do a lot of the work yourself. You can buy a complete ’95 or ’96 M3 for that kind of money. The MM rebuild charge is a contract fee, not an hourly rate.

Hope this helps.

[mohaughn]

The warranty and 0 mile engine is definitely a good perk of the MM rebuild. Another perk to also consider is that they hand pick the head and block out of a large selection of cores. Who knows how good that engine from that wrecked M3 really is.

I had a swap at less than $10k though. Without worrying about things like heater/AC. Transmission also bumps it up over 10k. But you will probably eventually go through the 4 cylinder getrag manual with a 200HP NA motor. To do the MM motor upgrade right you should atleast go with the larger case LSD. You are correct though, without doing the work yourself, or having a shop that will cut you a flat rate for the swap it will get expensive.


How wild did you go with your motor from them? Jim quoted me right around 10k to install the m42 rally with all the extra internal goodies. Good for mid 8000 RPM range, but tuned with the limiter around 7500. I'm sure it will be a blast to drive.

[dashate]

I'll get all the final info (tuning, RPM limit, etc) when I pick it up. I'll repost.

[HuGo]

Is the motor forged? If not forged do you know how much boost the MM engine can handle. If forged do you know how much boost it can handle?

Can the DASC be put in with the MM engine and have a custom tune/software to function properly?

That'll be kool to have the MM engine with the DASC pushing 15psi or so

[mohaughn]

Originally Posted by dashate

I'll get all the final info (tuning, RPM limit, etc) when I pick it up. I'll repost.

Great. I'm sure you are going to love it. At this point, my m42 is still running strong so no need to get anything else just yet.

[dashate]

Okay, here goes...
First, HuGo - the MM Rally and Sport engines will not support a supercharger. They are both built to 11.5 compression. MM does make a 8.5 compression motor specifically for supercharging. The parts they use for these rebuilds are listed on their website. (The high comrpression pistons are so beautiful, like jewelry, its ashame they are hidden!)
Now the rest of the story...
The increase in performance is very noticable. The car accelerates as promised and just continues to pull as you upshift. You can still get caught at the wrong rpm and speed in 4th and 5th gear, but those spots are far fewer than the stock engine. It will pull strongly through 1st and 2nd and if you live between 4000 and 6500RPM (see below) you will stay out of the dead spots. On my first test drive, I ran right up to about 124mph on the back roads of MO (MM is in the middle of nowhere). I've owned this car for 9 years and have 4000 miles+ of track driving and had previously never seen the north side of 105mph. Unofficially, 0 - 60 is in the high 6 second range.
In the day I spent in Richland with the MM gang, I learned more about the intricicies of engine building than I will ever be able to retain. To make this as short as I possibly can, here is the main M42/M44 story:
The Sport engine is built to about 2.0 liter and about 175 HP. The Rally engine is built to about 2.1 liter and about 205 HP. The M42 can be built to any of these specifications. They have only advertised the M44 engine as the Sport...until mine. I ended up with a "one off" engine. Three main stumbling blocks have heretofore prevented the M44 from attaining Rally specs: the crank, the OBD II chip, and the air intake manifold. I found out that if you line up 95, 96, 97 and 98 ti's and pop the hoods, all of those M44 engines may not be exactly the same; intakes are slightly different, blocks are slightly different.
To get my engine to a 2.1 liter required a 95 block (another story), moving the timing sensing gear from inside the block at the back to outside the block in the front and installing a BMW 4 cylinder desiel crank, which was lighter and allowed sufficient modification to the stroke. The OBD II chip mods (they have their own chip guy) required 15 - 20 dyno runs to get the balancing act of fuel air ratios, torque and max HP to the best compromise. THe OBD I is far easier to program. The final problem remains the biggest, the air intake. The M42 intake is basically 4 straight pipes once the air leaves the top manifold, which is great for top end HP, not so much for low end torque. The M44 intake is full of twists and turns with an additional butterfly valve in the lower chamber that will not allow for max airflow until about 4250RPM, which gives great low end torque but limits top end HP. MM found that the M44 intake cavitates in the 6700 - 7200 RPM range and the ECU leans the fuel to match, resulting in a precipitous drop in torque and HP...until 7200 RPM at which point the engine springs back to life. That sounds worse than it is, because the power curve looks pretty good: max torque at 4200RPM and max hp at 6400rpm where the car is making 192HP.
MM is still working on a design for the intake to fix the cavitation problem. The difference on the top end is 8 - 13 hp between the M42 and M44. Upshifting through the gears form a dead start the M44 will be the faster car. Only on the longest tracks will the top end difference be noticable, if at all, driving full throttle in 5th gear.
As a side note, MM makes all dynos at the crank and under an 8% load and extrapolates the standard BMW power loss at the wheels. Many dynos give no load measurements, so these specs might be on the low side. Although I don't have the figure in front of me, the torque increase was commensurate with the HP gain, in the 170 to 175 range. The engine is built to take over 8000RPM. They blueprint for 7500 - 7700 RPM. The point is mute at this point for the M44 since you will be wasting time and gas at anything above 6700 RPM. The engine is virtually impossible to over-rev.
Anyway, I love the engine, which now has 1500 miles on the odo. The warranty is about what I said in the previous thread. I got home on Wednesday 1/16 and went to an autoX on 1/20 and had a blast. Three other people drove the car and were smiling at the finish line. I can't wait to get to Sebring!

[dashate]

Part II
I did add a recommended exhaust upgrade. Subtract 5HP without it.

[mohaughn]

Sounds awesome. This past weekend at winterfest several of us were talking about your car and the engine build. All of us agreed that having that amount of power in a car that weighs a little over 2100# would be great fun. Mine still isn't that light though...

Let us know when you plan to take it out to Sebring and I will try to also get my car out to that event. Not sure if we would be in the same run group, but it would be a fun car to watch none the less..

[Marv17]

so whatever happen to this? did the guy ever get the MM engine?
i was reading up on the MM motor and didnt know they had one available to push like close to 300hp with FI!!. on a 4 banger thats good. its like at $9k tho. not bad for a whole rebuilt custom motor with FI. wish i had the money...

p.s. sry to bring it back from the dead...

[mohaughn]

Yes. He has the car and has been autocrossing it at the Tampa area BMW autocrosses...

And that 300hp FI engine is about 10k for just the engine. You would then need a custom turbocharger setup to make that power. Figure about another 6-8k. $16-20k total if you want to pay them to do most of the work. They have a shop in Texas that they use for the custom FI build.

[Marv17]

i thought that included the turbocharger?? thats what i got out of the readings i just read. well its still a good built motor it seems like. and isnt it considered "new" when they're done? like zero miles??
TEXAS?! WHAT?! they should have a shop in LA like the M shop. so it'd be closer to home. lol.

well if i win that kind of money thats what i would like to accomplish.

[mohaughn]

Yeah, it is basically a zero mile motor at that point..

Here is the blurb from their PDF about the cost of FI..

"Forced Induction is more complex
with a boost apparatus and extra plumbing. The cost
of a Forced Induction System, once it’s all
plumbed up and tuned, can be as much as
the engine itself."

[Marv17]

hmmm... dang. well yeah. guess that does sound right. must've misread it. although there are FI systems that are like $4-$10 out there. depending how good of quality one wants and how much power. but geee.... thats a lot of mula $$$

so the guy has the MM motor already? wonder what he thinks about it.