Bad Post-Sale Experience with Org Member... what can I do?

[dahamler]

I know that there is always two sides to a story; so without the sellers side I fell that we will never have all of the information. You are correct to say that cars just don't fall part the next day so any problems should have been apparent during your test drive. Don't get me wrong I do understand how you feel but I also believe that the buyer as more of the burden to ensure that a vehicle is in fair condition.

I think that the "intent to deceive" is the topic of this thread.

[wolferj-RIP]

I suspect that no one has asked you who it is, because (as was mentioned early in the thread) that the "member" who sold it to you probably wasn't a real, active, participating member of our community. Now if that isn't the case, then by all means, post the members name and call him out... and while I don't think it will do much good, it may be cathartic for you.

While the active and supporting members of the .org this are helpful and share a strong sense of community around our cars, there are many people who sign up, post a few times and then are never heard from again... That sounds like the guy you got your car from... Now if that isn't the case, by all means, speak up!

I am sorry that you feel you got a raw deal, and I agree, the seller should have disclosed more about the car. However, there always will be jerks and a******s who will say as much and as little as needed to sell a car. Why do you think 90% of used car dealers have such a bad rap?

However, if myself (or anyone else) can help you in any way with your car, let me (or us)know.

[cooljess76]

You said in another thread that it was M332ti that sold it to you. I've never met the guy, but after reading/posting in some of his threads, I noticed he had three 318ti's and was in the process of doing an engine swap on one of them. Sometimes people sell things to fund their other projects. I myself had 3 ti's. The first one, I sold it after less than a week of owning it because I found a better one. I kept my second one which I'm currently doing an S52 swap on. And I just so happened to stumble across a ClubSport for really cheap which I used as an opportunity to fix and sell for a nice profit to help fund my S52 swap. So it's not that uncommon for people to shuffle cars around. I drove the clubsport for maybe a month or two before I sold it. I couldn't tell the buyers squat about the history on either of the two cars i sold. I knew what work i did to them, but other than that, they ran fine when i let them go. If the engines blew up the next day, I wouldn't give a damn. It's out of my control. Why should I be responsible for what happens to a 14 year old car that I owned for a week or a couple months? Seriously, if you want a warranty, buy from a dealership. I know you're claiming that M332ti decived you, but you inspected the car, negotiated a price and hopefully drove away happy. All of the problems you've listed are to be expected in a high mileage 13 year old car. They're common for the 318ti. Our window regulators are known to come off track. Automatic transmissions can fail at any time, usually over 100k miles. Did you ask the seller if the transmission was serviced/replaced? Did he tell you it was? I mean, if you asked Joe Schmoe how's the transmission on a car he's selling, he'll probably tell you it works great unless he's encountered problems. That doesn't mean that it's been serviced regularly, it doesn't mean it's brand new and should last another hundred thousand miles. Things break when they get old. I usually change all of the fluids when I buy a used car, unless the previous owner tells me it was recently done or unless I plan on selling it soon anyway. Most Ti's sell for 5-6k if they're in good shape 2-3k if they're in ok shape or need work. You get what you pay for. It's too bad that your purchase didn't turn out to be a steal like you may have hoped it would. It's too bad your 13 year old car shows signs of wear.

[pdxmotorhead]

I sold a 4x4 Toyota pickup many years ago, I made the guy a smoking deal on it. I needed to get rid of it to close a deal on another truck.

I told the buyer that I ran the living **** out of it for 7 years and it had 200K on the clock. I had taken very good care of it, but I had run this truck HARD and was very up front about it.

2 weeks after I sold it to him his wife had the head gasket blow driving home from work.

Guy was all pissed and kept accusing me of ripping them off. I had even floated him 300 bucks that he never paid me.

Now when I sell stuff its AS IS, I won't even talk about the car. I just tell them to take it to a mechanic and I require a signed receipt on every vehicle stating its as-is and that as far as I'm concerned it should be sold for scrap.

Dave

[runnr548]

I know from personal experience that when one is buying a used car, any of the following may happen: a perfect car may be purchased; a P.O.S. may be purchased; a car which was reported to be on it's last leg may run another 100k miles; a beautiful, perfectly running car may have the block crack; etc... The seller may have undisclosed knowledge. Shame on him! The buyer may not do his research on the car. Shame on you! It's a tough game at times buying used "as is...no warranty", but that is exactly what it is...a used machine with NO warranty. My advice...live...learn...enjoy. :-)

[Altitude]

“Caveat emptor”!

My personal rule has been to always allow $1,000-$2,000 (just in parts costs) for those little hidden surprises that will always seem to show up on any used car, no matter how well someone says it has been maintained. And if you spend zero to any amount under $1,000, just consider yourself lucky and you made a great find in a used car.

This has probably happened to just about everyone here at least once, especially when buying a 13 year old used car. And even when a seller seems 100% honest you now know from experience to still check things out thoroughly for yourself and don’t walk but run like the wind away from the dishonest sellers.

You win some and hopefully, you loose just this one. So just chalk this one up to experience and move on and hopefully it will never happen to you again. Lesson learned.

[b.u.ti-ful]

Originally Posted by SNOWti

Sad. So you expect it then you must also be one of those that hides and lies about issues with cars. Thats bull, I've never had that sinking pit guy feeling when selling my old cars, because, I know they were either great or I told them to expect problems.

Just because you are an upright guy is no reason to assume all other sellers - especially of used cars - are going to be as honest as you.

I would call that dangerously naive.

Furthermore, most people selling their used cars don't even know how a car works much less what is going to go wrong with it in the future. So, again, just because you may be an excellent mechanic, why would you suppose that everybody else is too?

Again, that is being almost deliberately ignorant about people and the world in general.

I know that your real questions is whether to flame the guy in this forum or not. Sometimes it is a good thing to do and helpful to others. I would say if you are able to present specific proof of a hidden problem backed up with clear photos and quotes of exact verbal statements made at the time of sale, then go right ahead. Anything else is just anecdotal and none of us really cares about that.

[cooljess76]

I went back and read this thread from the beginning. What a joke! OP, you're telling me that your 13 year old, salvaged title'd car that you picked up for 2300 bucks off of craigslist wasn't a priceless gem? Hahaha! What a surprise

[b.u.ti-ful]

Sorry OP, couldn't resist.

[Altitude]

Classic Monty Python: Priceless!

Thanks b.u.ti-ful.

[SNOWti]

I wont put his name up, but his member name was share on here since I believe that he's on his own path, his own trajectory of treachery as I call it, sounds all dramatic but its true.

Interesting this dudes posts - http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24527 - bad tranny ti wont sell near 2500... really.

I'm not naive, I expect assholes and cons most of the time. By chance, I bought a second ti, which I checked as best as I could and knew the problems, the guy I could tell was upfront, no poser attitude or over enthusiastic, just mellow and straight up. Its an 12 year old ti and I agreed that there are problems to fix, the kid who was about 20, was straight up, told me everything he's experienced and gave me a fair, fair deal which I walked away thinking okay, no surprises and I honestly, dont expect any and Im expecting the car to be great, after a detail of engine and interior, now its in awesome shape except for a few mechanical issues which I was TOLD about, Im cool with that.

But AGAIN, the main issue here hiding of such problems just to make the most money off a sale rather than working hard and saving or just being in a place were you can afford it to let it go low because of major issues. I'd never risk someone's safety or hard earned cash for my own gain.

Anyway, Im wasting my time, to think of it, some one said here it was cathartic and maybe this process was for the last few days of the year. Only ONE member seemed to reach out in with a sense of sincere ti owner/enthusiast camaraderie, but most of the comments and PMs have revealed a bit to me.

[cooljess76]

Again, you're assuming the guy deceived you, yet you haven't provided any evidence to support your claim. Maybe he knew, maybe he didn't. How long should he be held responsible for YOUR problem? I mean if the thing blew up the next day or if it blew up next year, does it really matter? Sh!t happens bro, you could either dwell on it, fix it or sell it and move on. You're not going to get a perfect Ti for the price you paid. It really sucks man, I feel ya on that, but that's life.

Here's two recent examples where I feel I was wronged. First one was a differential I sold a few months ago. I pulled it off of my '98 M3, cleaned it up, took tons of photos inside and out and even posted a video of me opening it and spinning the gears by hand. I listed it on bf.c since it wouldn't fit on the 318ti. A guy from Georgia asked me to take close up pictures of the internals, specifically the clutch discs, which I did using a metric ruler for size referrence/comparison. He eventually bought it and paid to have it shipped. He waited two months to install it while his car was being repaired. Then I get an email from him saying that it chatters and the clutch discs were worn out. Now this differential was in mint condition, the internals looked brand new and the oil was clean when I drained it. Normally I would have gave him the benefit of the doubt, but I had a sneaky suspicion that he installed it forgot to fill it. He wanted me to pay for him to replace the clutch discs. No freakin way! Why should I pay to have his diff rebuilt which would basically mean that I'd be giving him a free diff? I later found a thread where he talked about doing burnouts and such and called him out on it to which he had no reply. He just wanted to see if he could rip me off.

And even more recent, I did get ripped off for an alternator that I bought from a guy on bf.c. I posted a WTB thread and specifically stated that I was looking for a clean alternator for my S52. I stressed that it be free of rust because it was going on a fully polished engine and it had to look and function perfectly. I also stressed that I was only interested in the newer model because it had a slightly different design(machined aluminum pulley). This guy posted that he had exactly what I was looking for. He sent me some really poor pics due to the alternator still being installed on his car and the supercharger was obstructing the view. Again, I asked if there was any rust, specifically on the internals. He assured me that it was clean and rust free. He even went as far to say that there wasn't even any grease on it, and from the photos, i believed him. When the alternator arrived it was nothing like he described. The photos were probably taken when he first installed his supercharger, because the thing was covered in grease, the internals were completely rusted and it was an older style alternator with the cast steel pulley. This a-hole not only lied to me, he had the nerve to tell me that I can just polish it like I polished my motor!

So there you have it, two separate circumstances of me as a seller and as a buyer getting screwed over. The difference being that neither of the buyers were able to inspect the item prior to purchase. In your case however, you were given the opportunity and failed to identify a problem before you handed over your cash and drove away. You can't prove that M332ti knew the transmission was going out, just like the guy in Georgia can't prove that I knowingly sold him a bad differential. As a seller, I went out of my way taking pictures, making a video, special packaging and even more pictures at his request. I did 10 times more work than most sellers would do. I even let it go for $75 less than my asking price(free shipping). And he still tried to rip me off in the end. The guy with the alternator flat-out lied to me. Unless M332ti guaranteed that the transmission would last a certain amount of time(which he had no way of knowing), or offered you some sort of warranty, it's your problem to deal with now. That's the risk you take when purchasing something used. You can go through life blaming other people for your problems or you can rise above it and move on. Put yourself in the sellers position. If you sold a car to someone, how long should you be held responsible for that car's problems?

[b.u.ti-ful]

Originally Posted by SNOWti

the guy I could tell was upfront, no poser attitude or over enthusiastic, just mellow and straight up.

Well, that would mean you have an excellent instinct for good sellers.

I suggest you learn to trust that instinct.

BTW, this forum has a very good reputation for being sympathetic and helpful, so don't let this crappy thread bum you out.

Start another one about a specific technical question and you will get a lot of help.

[manofgun]

Originally Posted by SNOWti

Only ONE member seemed to reach out in with a sense of sincere ti owner/enthusiast camaraderie, but most of the comments and PMs have revealed a bit to me.

As a general member of this forum I feel that this is a slap in the face with the many responses I read being thought out and rational to help you through this "grieving process". I myself bought a ti that I now would not have paid as much for. I was ignorant about BMW's and valued the sellers testimony of the vehicle more than I should have. At some point we all have had a situation like this, but the only element that we can learn from is how we approached it. This is why there IS "a sense of sincere ti owner/enthusiast camaraderie" on this forum. For when we hear of a disappointing story, such as yours, we help pick them up and dust them off while following up with some constructive criticism that has helped our own selves not make the same mistake twice. Our sympathy does go out too you and we appreciate your enthusiasm (it's what this site thrives off of : ), but looking for martyrdom or even a forum wide lynching is not the resolution you'll find here. I wish you and your family (ti's included) the best in 2010 and look forward to hearing more about them (the ti's and family i guess if you wish to divulge: ). Sincerely, Matthew P.S. if you want to try the lynching you might want to sign up on bf.com. lol

[cooljess76]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about this one. Way back before I even owned a Ti, I was in the market for one. I found an Alaska Blue 318ti Sport on ebay that was located about an hour north of me. The listing stated that the car wasn't running properly and it seemed as if it was only running on 3 cylinders. The seller said that it seemed like it was an electrical problem, probably a bad spark plug. His listing was rather rude though, he said that the car was parked outside of a shop, but people weren't allowed to come up and diagnose the problem. He said i could come and look at it, but the people at the shop would not allow me to troubleshoot the problem. his asking price seemed fair, but there was no way I was going to purchase it unless i knew what the problem was. I passed it up and let the auction end. Later he relisted it, this time with no reserve. I won the auction for much less than it was listed for the first time. So I contact the seller and ask him if I should bring a set of plugs, wires or even an ECU(didn't know about EWS back then). He replied that I should bring a tow truck because he thinks it might have a blown headgasket! I asked him why he said it had an electrical problem in the listing if he though it was a blown head gasket, and how was a blown head gasket related to an electrical problem? His answer was "send payment or receive negative feedback". So I did some investigating, because I knew a blown headgasket was going to be a little more costly than a spark plug. I googled "318ti head gasket" and it led me to this site. It was my first visit to 318ti.org and right on the top of the list I found a thread started by a member who had a familiar usuername. It was the same guy from ebay! His thread, well it went something like this:

"My car is such a POS, it blew the second headgasket in less than 6 months. I can't wait to dump it off on ebay."

The thread was dated prior to the ebay listing. Armed with this new found evidence, I contacted ebay and had the sale canceled. He still left me negative feedback which I returned the same. My 100% positive feedback was later restored after ebay ruled in my favor. His ebay account was closed by ebay after he received two more negative strikes from other buyers. Needless to say, I didn't give him a dime. The difference is that I found proof that the seller knowingly listed a car with problems that he failed to disclose in his listing prior to the auction ending. Fortunately I didn't lose any money and we've since forgiven eachother and became friends. If you can prove that M332ti knowingly deceived you, I'll sympathize with you. Otherwise, I'll just wish you the best and hope you learned from your mistake.