A few questions - getting ready for an S52 in a TI

[Artem]

Hi guys,

So I am just about ready to put in the engine into my car.

While I was acquiring the engine I also scored the rear subframe off an M-roadster, brakes and springs, so I will have those brakes all around. I will need the front shocks + springs off an E36 M3 to finish the pairing but that aint no thang.

So far I have a ZF Tranny with 53k miles on it
S52 motor with 102k miles on it
Rear subframe off an M roadster with 102k miles on it.
all M roadster brakes
all M roadster springs (I Know I need the M3 front end, working on it)

Anyway, got a few questions:

What is the deal with the cluster swapping into the car? Can we not use the stock 318ti cluster? Or does everyone love the MPG gauge so much that they do the cluster swap. Either way - will an M roadster cluster fit a stock TI? And do I really need it?

The driveshaft thing is really confusing - the swap threads say theres like 3 different driveshaft options and all that, however:

I looked into the wheel base of a Z3M and found out that its roughly 10" shorter than that of a TI/E36 sedan/E36 coupe. Thus I am having a hard time believing that a stock M roadster driveshaft bolts up to the engine.
People say that the Z3m transmission combo with the S52 uses its own driveshaft, but the Z3m and any other S52 engined car along with the M54 and M52 is using the same ZF320 transmission, so I am not sure what accounts for the compatibility difference.

I also heard that some people use an AUTOMATIC M3 driveshaft... so that got me spinning in a whole different direction.

Just trying to sort out some stuff before I delve into redoing the motor gaskets and subframe bushings and all that.

Has anyone realigned EWS in their car to another ECU using the BMW software and a USB to OBDII adapter?

And lastly, if I get a stock M3 exhaust and cut some piping off in the middle and re-weld it, is that all I really need?

Thanks in advance, can't wait to have this over with

[wake74]

I'll answer the easy one :-)

Your current cluster has a 4 banger tach in it. It will be off by 1/3 when it starts to get a 6 cylinder signal. The E36 clusters are all physically the same size.

I made my MPG functional on my recent swap, it's better than having it not functional, but it jumps around A LOT as it appears to be instantaneous MPG not some type of averaged MPG.

[Artem]

Cool! Thanks a lot!

Makes sense - however did anyone ever try to get the current tach working with an I6 signal? Change the pulse processor, TACH itself, etc? Im guessing theres an IC inside that interprets the signal somehow. I would love to have the original cluster in the car with the original mileage in it as well, but I dont feel like hitting the redline at 5k rpm.


Cheers,
Artem

[wake74]

It's not quite that simple with the mileage. Do some searching on swapping clusters, the mileage is stored in both the cluster and the DME, and you definitely can't use your 4 cylinder DME :-) There are some ways around that issue as well but it seems to vary based upon the year of the cluster.

[Artem]

Cool, I guess I'll run it with the stock cluster initially and then cross that bridge when I get there.

Thanks for the info!

[barearrow]

Just by the book you wont regret it. http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12912 it answers all your questions and has tons of other suggestions that you will never expect until you begin your swap. J!m has been very helpful but at some point you just have to bite your lip and go for it...

[Strawman]

I'd really recommend using polyurethane bushings in the rear suspension crossmember while you've got it out. With the S52, you're putting a LOT more torque into the rear diff than the old 4-banger did, and the twisting of the crossmember under hard acceleration can tear the upper diff mount from the chassis. My '98 M Roadster completely tore the upper mount from the chassis. Burning out the stock rubber bushings is messy/nasty, but inserting the poly ones is easy-peezy. I used PowerFlex both on my M52-swapped 318ti and my M Roadster.

For my M Roadster repair, I devised & welded-in my own version of the Randy Forbes repair/reinforcement regimen. In hindsight, I wish I would have done the same to my ti, since I'm not gentle with it! But I feel better that the poly bushings will limit the twist somewhat...

[Strawman]

Oh, and I'd second barearrow's suggestion to get J!m's swap book. It'll answer most of your questions and help get you prepared for the swap.

[Artem]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions! I think I'm almost there.

Which subframe + T/As did you end up using, Strawman? 318TI stock with poly bushings? I got a set of powerflex complete rear end bushings from a while back, I will definitely put those in before running it daily, mine are giving up the ghost.


I also got a specific question which I doubt the manual would answer:

I will have a Z3M subframe and diff, but no axles or trailing arms. What is the difference between the stock E36ti/Z3 subframe and the Z3m subframe?

[barearrow]

Originally Posted by Artem

Thank you everyone for the suggestions! I think I'm almost there. Which subframe + T/As did you end up using, Strawman? 318TI stock with poly bushings? I got a set of powerflex complete rear end bushings from a while back, I will definitely put those in before running it daily, mine are giving up the ghost. I also got a specific question which I doubt the manual would answer: I will have a Z3M subframe and diff, but no axles or trailing arms. What is the difference between the stock E36ti/Z3 subframe and the Z3m subframe?

There is a big difference between the axles and trailing arms. MZ3 trailing arms are quite a bit heavier and have larger bearings; axles are equally different. MZ3 have wider rear trailing arms than all Z3 models, but retain a shallower hub. Due to this mix, this setup allows for E36/E46 fitment wheels. This is a good site to answer differences http://clavinzero.com/e30-5-lug/ Look at option 4 MZ3 option. Try this guy for parts: Freddy Melendez rebuilder1963@comcast.net. I bought a right rear trailing arm and axle (I bent it after being run off the road by a F350) and he had several MZ3's he was parting. I run Ireland engineering bushings in the subframe and stock BMW at the differential. Here in WA Haury's Lakeside collision has a subframe support method that I used - its not Randy Forbes version by any means but it hasn't failed in my MCoupe - Really depends on how hard you are on it. Either way do yourself a favor and don't be in too much of a hurry to pass up opportunities to do it right. Subframe reinforcements are critical Ireland engineering has a kit and while you are there you will want to pick up a set of caster/camber weld on adjusters for the rear. Not sure how far you want to go but if you plan to corner balance you will want the adjusters.

[Artem]

Cool, thank you for all that! I just sent Freddy an email to check in. I might just go with the OEM rear end with poly bushings in it (I already have a set of all of them). I also heard that I can retrofit E90/1series vented rear brakes on there with the E36 M3 calipers, which I might do if I get a hold of the guy who suppsoedly has the CAD models of them, or maybe I'll just measure it all when I have the pieces.

Cheers,
Artem

[Strawman]

I am using the stock 318ti rear subframe with Powerflex purple bushings in my M52-swapped car. I also used the Powerflex purple bushings in the stock 318ti trailing arms. My car also has a 3.25 ratio LSD differential out of an E28; I used the Powerflex purple bushing in an E30 diff cover.

[bmwconnect]

Originally Posted by Artem

Has anyone realigned EWS in their car to another ECU using the BMW software and a USB to OBDII adapter?

You need EWS off programmed into the DME. I charge $100 to do it and you can remove the EWS hardware completely - midnight-tuning@rogers.com

Cheers

[Artem]

Thanks guys! I already got a complete set of purple powerflex bushings for the rear end (T/As, subframe, diff), so I think I will put those in.

So the plan will be, the 'rebuild' the rear end using powerflex bushings. Adapt E36 M3 rear brake calipers to the rear TI Trailing arms and run with it, as i don't believe I will overload the rear end using a med case 2.93 lsd diff.

Does anyone know anything about the sway bars that you should choose in an S52 swap? Should I use a stock Z3M rear one and front E36 M3 one? Or just leave them TI M-sport? I'm using the E36 M3 front end with OEM springs, and rear springs off a Z3M, is that the standard?

I think the plan is to redo the subframe with bushings, redo the axles to make them into the 'e30-318ti hybrid' and adapt the E36 M3 brakes in the back.

Midnight - I might take you up on that offer, I will definitely want the EWS delete/align off my E36 M3 ECU if the shop which is swapping the engine in will be incapable of realigning the EWS's to my car. As the engine with all the pieces (minus the driveshaft) will be coming in tomorrow, pretty psyched for that.

Speaking of the driveshaft - if anyone has an E36 M3 driveshaft lying around or knows someone who is, please sell it to me!

Thanks guys! This is happening!

[erikerikerik]

DUUUUUUUUUUUUDE, Your a 17 min drive for me and I'm sort of building the same thing. If you ever need a helping hand or another 318ti guy to stand around and drink while you work let me know!