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Tutorial Tools Display Modes
SAP (Secondary Air Pump) Repairs
SAP (Secondary Air Pump) Repairs
Published by cali-ti
01-14-2006
Default SAP (Secondary Air Pump) Repairs

I'll clean this up later, but here's some of the information I've gathered from the yahoo 318ti mailing list so far.

=========

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:22:31 -0500
Subject: SAP air pump replacement and sources

I finally pulled a code for that 'phantom' CEL that defied my two code
readers. Although I've been looking to buy an Auterra or AutoEnginuity type
PC-based reader, I don't have one yet. But it occurred to me that the local
AutoZone will read codes for free. I'd recommend this to anyone who gets
stuck with a mysterious CEL like I did. They were very accommodating and it
took just a minute. They used a universal pro-style OBDII reader to pull the
code, which I then had to look up online myself.

Anyway, it turns out that I have a P1423, a BMW-specific code that translates
to 'Secondary Air System Bank 1'. In other words, something is amiss with
the SAP or its associated components. I know many here have been through the
same thing. And I recall the advice about using a VW Jetta pump by swaping
out the connecors. But still I was not prepared to find out just how much
these things cost. The going price for a factory replacement (Pierburg)
online is in the neighborhood of $330. The valve that it feeds is another
$60. Thinking the VW was supposed to be cheaper, I searched for that online
as well, only to find that it runs an astronomical $600!

Does anyone have a source for these that is more reasonable? I suppose it
may be time to find out what wrecking yards are in my area (I'm in Chicago if
you have suggestions). I haven't been to one since I bought the ti, but I
guess I can't be too proud to at these prices. It is just an air pump, after
all. According to ETK, this pump is unique to the M44, but I wonder how
different they can really be.

Besides finding one that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, does anyone have any
tips on the procedure? I could not find any instructions in TIS or any
write-ups online. Maybe that means its too easy to bother explaining? When
I get some time, I will poke around to make sure the pump is really dead, but
for now I'm assuming it is.

Thanks,
Mark

=====

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 00:37:50 -0400
Subject: RE: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Mark,

I'd be really sure it's the SAP before I dump 600 big ones. I've had SAP
problems in the past have replace the valve on front of the motor in which
the pumps air line goes to, the electronic valve that controls the line and
more recently, the high temp line to the exhaust manifold. I even had a
pinched vacuum line to the valve after I installed the SC. I'd look really
close at all of these other items before dumping $600. Remember, the code
only points to the "system".

With the mileage I'm guessing you have I'd look at the air and vacuum lines
first.

S

=======

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:42:55 -0500
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Right - I'm thinking the same thing, I just haven't had much time to
physically look under the hood, especially since its getting dark earlier.
The $600 is an absurd figure I would never pay. The BMW part is $299 at Bav
Auto - that's bad enough, and your point stands! I've only got about 68k
miles, but haven't ever replaced any hoses, etc. The valve may be a good
place to start if the air pump seems functional. What's the best way to test
that, though?

-Mark.

========

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:32:16 -0700
Subject: RE: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Mark,

I never found anything in my Bentley about testing the electronic control
for the valve. Basically (my guess) the ECU controls the vacuum that goes to
the valve via the electronic control valve. You might be able to check and
see if the vacuum comes and goes on your car as the engine warms up. Of
course the Bentley was of no help and I don't know if the ECU continually
controls the vacuum to the circuit even once the engine is warm. As far as I
can tell there are just these 3 components to the SAP, pump, valve and
controller plus misc hoses. Of course there is always the ECU but lets not
go there.

You said the ETK showed the SAP unique to the ti but the one on my wife's
E46 Touring looks pretty similar...

S

======

Message: 13
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:51:15 -0500
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Good point, Jason. I checked the EPA site and you are correct about the
8/80,000 (http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/warr95fs.txt). And since it is
strictly an emissions feature, it is covered. But it's a 1997 with a January
build date and a May registration date - so it is just over 8 years, and I
may be out of luck. But just barely and the mileage is within range, so who
knows - it may be worth a phone call.

btw, I understand that the ECU adds fuel to burn in the cat when the pump is
on; I wonder if it discontinues this practice when there is a fault, so the
O2 sensors, etc. don't get fouled?

Thanks for the help,
Mark.

======

Message: 15
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 02:25:43 -0500
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Thanks, Sheridan. What about testing the pump itself? Is it possible to
check its output while the engine is running by pulling its output connector?
Like I said, I haven't looked yet. I guess in the worst case I could remove
it, feed it 12v, and see what happens...

Are there two valves or one? I know the large 'shut off' valve for the air;
what is is the electronic one you mention you replaced?

Looking at them around the web, a lot of the pumps do look really similar.
I'll check the lines as you suggest, too.

-Mark.

======

Message: 16
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:01:43 -0700
Subject: RE: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Mark,

As far as I know the pump either works or doesn't. You should be able to
hear it turn on seconds after you start the COLD engine and shut off after a
couple of minutes. It will sound like a hair dryer. The hard plastic hose
leaving the pump on the left side (looking at it) and going to the valve on
the front of the engine (exhaust side) will have forced air going through
it. Simply unhook it and check that air is coming out at a good rate.

There is only one valve, the one on the exhaust side of the motor on the
front. The electronic controller is located (and please excuse me, my car
has been molested and has a supercharger on it) on the intake side of the
motor most likely under the intake manifold or throttle body. You should be
able to follow the vacuum line from the valve on the exhaust side over to
the controller. On the DASC cars (mine anyway) it's strapped under the
throttle body and is probably easier to get to. This item is about 1"x1"x3"
with two vacuum line connections and the receptacle for the electrical
connection (2 or 3 wires).

I don't know if this link will work but it's part #10. (engine/vacuum
control)
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...58&hg=11&fg=45

I'll also include a screen print for those of you that get attachments on
yahoo groups. (engine/vacuum control)

S

=====

Message: 17
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 03:29:35 -0500
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Sheridan,
That is tremendously helpful - thanks! The control module was a missing link
for me. This really fills in all the blanks I did not find in the ETK. I
appreciate it.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll get a chance to give a good look around under the
hood, and figure out if the pump works. If I can verify that it does, I'll
be very happy. If not, at least I'll know where to start.

-Mark.

======

Message: 20
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:27:20 -0000
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Yep, the VW part is more expensive from the dealer than a new OE BMW
one. I purchased an OE BMW SAP from www.bimmerspecialist.com for
CDN$268. If you pull your pump to check it, you may find it is full of
water (mine was) - a sign that it likely will need replacing. Since
the original valve seems prone to failure (thus allowing water to
collect in the pump), I added an extra check valve to the line from
the pump to the original valve as a safe guard. The valves are much
cheaper to replace than the pump.

James

=====

Message: 21
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:41:25 -0500
Subject: RE: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Mark wrote:
"What about testing the pump itself? Is it possible to
check its output while the engine is running by pulling its output
connector?
Like I said, I haven't looked yet. I guess in the worst case I could remove

it, feed it 12v, and see what happens."

Mark, I took mine out and drilled out the aluminum rivets that hold it
together. You can take the housing apart and inspect the motor. Yep, you can
check it with 12 volts applied with a power supply but I would disassemble
it first not to burn it up. Check the bearings and oil if needed.

I reassembled it using stainless steel screws: See my pic:
http://groups.msn.com/MStudio111/sec...to&PhotoID=107

__\\\__
/ /
_/ \_____ Gerry Doiron
/,,,,,__,,,,,, 1999 318ti Sport, Cali-Top, DASC S-3
\__/(O)\___ 2000 ///M Roadster, Sharked+

======

Message: 22
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:45:08 -0500
Subject: RE: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Forgot to mention: I rotated the housing on the pump to allow the inlet
filter to be facing towards the front of the car for easy access and
cleaning.

Gerry

======

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:56:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Hmm. I don't like the sound of that. Could explain the connection to rough
starting in wet weather I've noted. Did you use another valve of the same
part?

Thanks,
Mark.

=====

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:55:12 -0700
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

At 1:51 AM -0500 10/18/05, Mark Bourgeois wrote:
>btw, I understand that the ECU adds fuel to burn in the cat when the pump is
>on; I wonder if it discontinues this practice when there is a fault, so the
>O2 sensors, etc. don't get fouled?

Fouling shouldn't be a problem even if the ECU doesn't compensate.
First, O2 sensors are heated and come up to temp quickly. Second, I
don't think the ECU adds much, if any, fuel beyond what it normally
would with a cold engine. Think of the air pump as providing
additional air to react with the additional fuel already present when
a cold engine is running rich. This reduces hydrocarbon emissions
and generates heat to bring the catalyst up to temperature quickly.
Strictly speaking the fuel doesn't burn in the exhaust - it's a
lower-temperature chemical reaction.

Jason

=====

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:35:55 -0000
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

I don't think the water in the pump is due to bad weather, but that
the failed valve allows hot air form the exhaust to condense in the
pump. The valve I used was the RSpeed supercharger check valve that I
had previously been using in the air injection line (before upgrading
the injectors with NickGs stageII kit). I'm not sure whether you could
use it unless you have a DASC, though, as the DA kit replaces much of
the hard plastic hose connecting the pump to the valve with standard
rubber hose (that accepts the valve perfectly).

James

======

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:42:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Guys,
Armed with your good advice, I finally took a good look around under the hood
this evening after getting home from work (which I did not drive to, and
usually don't).

The best news, for me, is that the pump itself seems to be in good shape - it
is quiet, and blows strong when I disconnect the hose at the valve. The
valve itself, however, I think is shot. Considering the price difference
between them, that's a relief. When I unplugged the hose from the pump, I
could hear and feel exhaust pulsing out of the valve connector. I took a
quick video of the effect. It's fairly poor quality, but hopefully it will
be enough to confirm the diagnosis if anyone wants to take a look. It should
be available here: http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bourgeml.

My understanding is that this is a one-way valve - i.e., it should not be
letting exhaust out, even when the valve and pump are turned on. So,
hopefully, all I need to do is replace this and I will be back in business.
I checked the hoses and lines, and everything looks in good condition, with
the exception of the bend where the vacuum line goes into the valve; which
was cracked open at the nipple. I just pulled it off, sliced off the end at
the crack, and there was plenty of line left to reconnect. I actually did
this first, so this should not be a factor in the other testing.

Sheridan, the electronic controller on a stock 97 M44 is mounted on a bracket
near the oil filter. Pretty easy to access, no need to disassemble the
intake manifold. I posted a few photos of that as well
http://photos.yahoo.com/bourgeml.

James, I see what you mean about the water. When I do the work, I will
probably take the pump down and clean it up anyway. I'm motivated to do
preventative maintenance on it now. Wish I had time to do the things
Gerry gets up to. Looks great.

Thanks to all who have helped,
Mark.

=====

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 04:29:41 -0400
Subject: RE: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

When I unplugged the hose from the pump, I
could hear and feel exhaust pulsing out of the valve connector. I took a
quick video of the effect. It's fairly poor quality, but hopefully it will
be enough to confirm the diagnosis if anyone wants to take a look.

>>>Mark the assumption would be that the valve is bad. Are you sure the
controller is working properly and "asking" the valve to close?

S

=====

Message: 19
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:03:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Good point. It occurred to me much later that I should have pulled the
vacuum line as well after I took the air hose off, to see if the sound
changed. Maybe I can try that soon.

Sheridan, I was checking the archives and noticed that when you had your SAP
problem last year, the exhuast melted the air hose. Nothing like that on
mine, though I do think some is coming through. Was your controller bad? I
noticed you replaced the valve and still had the problem. What fixed it in
the end?

-Mark.

=====

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:01:55 -0700
Subject: RE: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

The controller

S

=====

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 20:05:32 -0700
Subject: RE: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources


Sheridan, I was checking the archives and noticed that when you had your SAP problem last year, the exhuast melted the air hose. Nothing like that on
mine, though I do think some is coming through.

Mark,

Mine might be because I track my car, about 80% of it's entire life. Try
driving flat to the floor for 200 miles bouncing off the rev limiter at each
shift. Oh, you might need to install a DASC to duplicate the effect.
Honestly, in normal day to day driving on a stock car the hose might never
have melted.

S

=====

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:16:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Interesting. I just checked mine out again. I pulled the vacuum line off
the valve and sure enough, it shut right down. There was good vacuum on the
line, and it seemed to be operating the valve properly. After the engine was
up to temp, it shut down: no vacuum on the line, and no operation on the
valve. Given that the pump blows strong, it seems to be narrowed down to the
valve. It does not seem totally gone, just leaky, maybe. I say that because
it does shut correctly, and when open, the exhaust escaping doesn't seem
anywhere near enough to be melting something as yours did. (Just got your
message re: tracking with the DASC; yeah, that might have something to do
with it, too) In fact, you have to put your hand right up to it to feel
it. Still, I'm assuming that's not normal, and there has to be something
wrong to be getting this code - so I'll order a new valve tomorrow.

Thanks again S and all!

-Mark.

=====

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:57:39 -0000
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Are you sure that the pump is providing sufficient air for the ECU to
consider it to be functioning correctly? I imagine that the valve
would only cause a fault to register if it fails to open (thus
preventing the added air from the SAP being registered by the 02
sensors), rather than if it fails to close. I'm sure Jason has further
insight into whether there is a sensor to determine the state of the
valve, though I'd assume that if there was there'd be a corresponding
code identifying the valve... Anyway, my understanding (from reviewing
the history of these problems as detailed in the archives) is that the
valve typically fails open, allowing the exhaust gasses to the kill
the pump which then triggers the fault. Either way, you'll need to
replace both the valve and pump, but you'll save yourself a return
trip to the dealer (or extra shipping charges) if you are sure about
the pump first.

James

=====

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:23:49 -0500
Subject: RE: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

My SAP pump can be heard from inside the car. I notice when it turns off
after getting under way. It is actually louder than the cooling fan on fast
speed and the supercharger. James may be right on the pump being too weak.

Gerry

=====

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:47:00 -0700
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

At 1:57 PM +0000 10/20/05, James Wu wrote:
>I imagine that the valve would only cause a fault to register if it
>fails to open (thus
>preventing the added air from the SAP being registered by the 02
>sensors), rather than if it fails to close.

Generally, if the diagnostics are able to detect failure in a
specific part, they should detect either failure mode.


>I'm sure Jason has further insight into whether there is a sensor to
>determine the state of the
>valve,

I'd be very surprised if there were a position sensor on the valve.
Even a contact switch at full-open or full-closed is doubtful. I
don't recall seeing any wires to the valve.

Jason

=====

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:52:33 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

You guys and your impeccable logic... yeah, I guess I'm not off the hook just
yet. Let me take some measurements and get back to you. You've also given me another, more optimistic idea.

-Mark.

=====

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:20:59 -0000
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

I think it is audible only in DASC cars. I never noticed it before I
install the SC. However, the audible whine is a good way to keep
track of the health of the pump - I noticed a significant change in
pitch as my pump died, and finally, of course, silence...

James

=====

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:28:17 -0000
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

> >I imagine that the valve would only cause a fault to register if it
> >fails to open (thus preventing the added air from the SAP being
> >registered by the 02 sensors), rather than if it fails to close.
>
> Generally, if the diagnostics are able to detect failure in a
> specific part, they should detect either failure mode.

What I meant to say was that the valve failing closed would cause
fault to register identifying the SAP because the 02 sensors do not
see the extra air, not because the diagnostics recognize only one of
the two failure states.


> I'd be very surprised if there were a position sensor on the valve.
> Even a contact switch at full-open or full-closed is doubtful. I
> don't recall seeing any wires to the valve.

Further to this, I just recalled that I didn't replace my valve right
away (long story...). When the pump was replaced, and the failed valve
was still being used in conjunction with the backup check valve, no
further codes were registered. It was like this for at least two
weeks. So, it seems that failed valves can't throw faults.

James

====

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:50:28 -0500
Subject: RE: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

----Original Message-----
"I think it is audible only in DASC cars."

James,

My radiator fan did not work previous to the DASC install due to a bad
connection. If the pump did not make noise it was probably not conducting
current on the connectors. When removing and replacing connectors they have
a way of cleaning and conducting again. The DASC software should not have
modified the pump function.

All these little items come in handy to listen for and check occasionally. I
may generate a pre flight plan for occasionally checking all systems.
Especially if one does not have a code reader yet ;-)

Gerry

=====

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 18:55:46 -0000
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

I just tried testing the pump output with a mini-annemometer, which
measures airspeed. By using the cross-section of the pipe, you can
derive CFM. Even though I don't know what the spec is, I think the
pump is working just fine. It is powerful enough to break one of
the vanes of the annemometer, anyway! Before it did that, I got a
peak reading of 7,000 FPM, which translates to about 182 CFM. I
can't imagine it's supposed to put out more than this.

So, for my bright idea: if the valve is shutting off correctly, as I
verified last night, and audibly opens on command as well, maybe
there isn't anything wrong with it, either. So, what is wrong?
Well, remember that little crack in the vacuum line I mentioned? I
posted a photo of it, and repaired it right away.

But maybe that was causing a leak there, enough to compromise
operation of the valve. Ever since then, I've been monkeying around
with things so much that the CE light had no time to reset. So,
after playing with the pump again just now, I've reset the light. I
don't want to jinx anything, but we'll see if it holds...

-Mark.

=====

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:01:24 -0000
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Gerry, I think James is correct about the audibility of the pump...
it's just not that loud in a stock setup. No doubt this is by
design. With the hood open, it's detectable, but not from inside.
And yes, my pump is turning on.

-Mark.

======

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:13:11 -0700
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

At 6:55 PM +0000 10/20/05, bourgeml wrote:
>It is powerful enough to break one of the vanes of the annemometer, anyway!

Now you're testing!


>Before it did that, I got a peak reading of 7,000 FPM, which
>translates to about 182 CFM. I
>can't imagine it's supposed to put out more than this.

Sounds plenty adequate.

Jason

====

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:11:58 -0700
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

At 7:01 PM +0000 10/20/05, bourgeml wrote:
>Gerry, I think James is correct about the audibility of the pump...

I gotta disagree with you guys on this one. My air pump has always
been audible (my car is stock). It's subtle, and you might not
notice it if you don't hear it the moment it turns on. I think part
of it is pump noise, and part of it is a change in engine note due to
the load of the pump.

Coincidentally, mine has been getting louder lately, particularly the
change in engine note is more noticeable. Presumably something's
about to break but won't do so until the weather gets a little colder
and wetter.

Jason

=====

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:54:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Jason,
I like to think I have pretty good hearing, but maybe it's just a matter of
being more tuned in to what is under the hood. I was only vaugely aware I
had an SAP before last week, so I was never listening for it. I would not
say it's loud on mine, though. I do hear the engine load change, but never
thought much about what might be causing it before.

Speaking of the colder weather, the hard starting I complained about last
winter is showing its face again. That may be my next project once I get
this sorted out. Your advice to wait a few moments after turning the key
(for the fuel rail to repressurize) has helped, but it often still stalls or
is rough when it gets below about 50F. One thing at a time, though.

Thanks,
Mark.

=====

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:56:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Well, I still don't want to jinx anything (it's happened before), but the
early returns are good. Four cold restarts and several miles of driving
later, and the CEL has yet to return. Last time I reset it, before
attempting repair but after I was unable to read any codes, it came back
after a couple of starts. I'm going to just sit tight for now. But it might
have been just a vaccum line leak after all.

If so, that might be something to check for on your own cars, whether you
pulled a MIL or not. It's a sharp bend for the line to get into the shut off
valve, and that's where mine was cracked. Fortunately, that also makes it a
very quick fix: all you have to do is slice off the first inch and stick it
back on the valve. It's just figuring out whether that is/was the problem
that takes a week, a good code reader, and a lot of help!

-Mark.

=====

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:32:27 -0400
Subject: RE: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Mark,

This sounds like good news!! (fingers still crossed though...)

As for the SAP sound on a stock car vs. a DASC car. On the stock setup the
SAP gets it's air via the stock air filter box. On the DASC install the
stock box is removed and a tiny, individual K&N air filter is added to the
intake of the SAP. Since there is little baffling or noise cancellation with
a K&N the SAP will be louder. On my car when I start it in the garage the
SAP sounds like a huge industrial hair dryer.

If this is truly the fix I wonder what a dealer would have charged for the
repair (diagnostics, throwing the wrong parts at it etc)? Oh, I'm bitter.
Our local dealer has been #&^$ing up my wife's Touring. They MIGHT fix one
thing but break 3 others in the process. Not much trust with them right now.
I honestly thing there is more experience with this group than what you
would find with a "professional" mechanic.

Rant over,
Sheridan

=====

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:23:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Thanks, Sheridan.
I am still holding my breath but getting ready to breathe a sigh of relief.
The potential cost of this could have been quite high even doing the work
myself. Between a new pump, valve and OBD tool (which I still want, of
course), it would have come to $600. And if I took it in to the dealer, it's
doubtful they would have gone for the simple, subtle fix. Chances are they
would have told me I need a new SAP, and I would not have known any better.

That said, though, it's hard to know how much you come out ahead DIYing. The
truth is I've spent a ton of my time on this problem - researching, emailing,
testing - that, while I might find it fun and educational, could have been
spent more productively on work. There is an argument to be made for just
taking it to the shop like most people do.

Of course, that's assuming you have a good, reliable mechanic, and that's the
catch. I feel for you. Even if it's warranty work you don't pay for
yourself, there's nothing worse than taking your well-loved car to 'pros' who
do a half-assed job you know you could have done right yourself. And then
having to take it back. I've been there, and that as much as anything is
what motivates me to take these things on myself. The cost savings are nice,
too, though. And having this list is a help and encouragement (and, yes,
makes it more fun, too).

There's no doubt there's more single-model experience on this list than any
mechanic (or even shop) would have, and that does make a difference. Every model is different and long-term experience helps a lot. It reminds me of claims places like Bavarian Autosport like to make: "we've got over 150 years of BMW experience!". Well, great. That could be 300 guys with 6 mos on the job for all we know. I wonder how many years of ti experience we've got now?

-Mark.

=====

Message: 17
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:28:52 -0500
Subject: RE: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

Sheridan,

You explained and summarized the noise very eloquently. I was not looking at
the obvious. By removing the long intake hose to the filter on the SAP it
made mine very noticeable. I didn't like the clutter. I now kind of like the
audible indication that it is working properly.

I remember now why I had to disassemble the casing on my SAP. It was to
orient the electrical connector about 180 degrees from its original location
to clear the firewall. There are detents in the motor cover to rotate it.
This allowed the filter to be pointing forward for easy access and cleaning.
I think it reduces the clutter and looks cool too.
http://groups.msn.com/MStudio111/sec...ap.msnw?Page=1

Thanks to everyone here for being helpful in tracking down and understanding
these problems. Your hard forward moving work away from the Dealer is
appreciated here. You guys are doing most of the legwork. The least I can do
is to document it for future generations. If you send me pictures I could
post them too. Some time in the future I will use my web site to post these
pictures permanently. The MSN Group site is convenient but at risk of being
erased every couple months since it is free. Since the SAP is so expensive,
next time I have it apart I will take internal pictures. It is not very
difficult to rebuild.

If you want to copy these pictures with annotation: Highlight the header and
picture with the mouse and copy it to Microsoft Word or to the picture
section of the group. I think I will do this myself to save them
permanently.

__\\\__
/ /
_/ \_____ Gerry Doiron
/,,,,,__,,,,,, 1999 318ti Sport, Cali-Top, DASC S-3
\__/(O)\___ 2000 ///M Roadster, Sharked+

====

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:48:24 -0000
Subject: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

I think the DASC setup also remounts the pump in such a way that more
noise/vibration is transmitted into the body. The 'hair dryer' sound
seems much more apparent inside the car than outside (though I admit
it has been a while since I was outside listening while the pump was
running...). However, in addition to the sound, I am able to feel
vibrations from the pump through the wheel.

James

=====

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:54:31 -0500
Subject: RE: Re: SAP air pump replacement and sources

" I am able to feel vibrations from the pump through the wheel."

Cool ! I'm going to check to make sure I installed the rubber isolator
correctly. Isolating it from the chassis may help.
Tutorial Tools

  #1  
By magman on 11-13-2006, 10:14 PM
Default Air Pump and camshaft positioning sensor

I just had a similar experience, check engine light came on, I took her in and they ran the test, Secondary air pump , cam shaft possitioning sensor came up. They tried to start the pump but only relay come on. Could it be the air pump that has been burned out because the valve does not open? but I do not know why the cam shaft sensor is gone? Any thoughts anyone.
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  #2  
By DustenT on 11-13-2006, 10:32 PM
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by magman View Post
I just had a similar experience, check engine light came on, I took her in and they ran the test, Secondary air pump , cam shaft possitioning sensor came up. They tried to start the pump but only relay come on. Could it be the air pump that has been burned out because the valve does not open? but I do not know why the cam shaft sensor is gone? Any thoughts anyone.
More likely the pump went bad from the valve being stuck OPEN and exhaust/moisture entered the pump.
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  #3  
By ELIBEEMER on 01-19-2009, 09:45 PM
Default

Thanks to this thread, i too fixed my air-pump for 2.35 cents - M4 bolts/washers/nuts! no more CEL!
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  #4  
By 6speed ti on 01-23-2010, 04:42 PM
Default

I just want to add one important thing. The A.I.R. pump was added on 1997 models. If you have a 1997 model with a build date before January 1997 your vehicle does NOT have a A.I.R. pump. My ti has a October 96 production date and No A.I.R. system was installed. I am one of the lucky ones.
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  #5  
By performanceisland on 01-23-2010, 10:10 PM
Default

make sure you are getting a good ground on the ground wire coming from the SAP connector going to the frame.

you can always get rid of the SAP if you know the pump is bad and replace it with the SAP simulator, directions are on this forum.
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