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Old 08-03-2006, 04:20 PM   #1
DustenT
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Default Forced Induction FAQ - Required reading for n00bs!

Official 318ti Forced Induction (FI) FAQ Thread.

This thread will be dedicated to frequently asked questions related to Forced Induction. Please post your questions here, and I'll combine all the questions and answers and keep them at the top of the thread.

Read "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell for a better understanding of turbos. Read "Supercharged!" by Corky Bell for a better understanding of superchargers.

Questions:

What FI systems are availabe for the 318ti?

Current there are only 2 systems available for the m42/m44 motor.
  • Mosselman makes a low boost turbo kit (5-6psi). http://www.kormanfastbmw.com/turbos.htm
  • Downing Atlanta (DASC) make a supercharger for the m42 and m44 that uses an Eaton M62 roots supercharger. See additional information below.
  • SEAM is currently developing an intercooled twin screw supercharger. More info will be posted when it is released.
  • Midnight Auto is selling a supercharger kit, but it's more of a collection of parts than a complete bolt-on kit. I recommend you DON'T buy this kit.

How much boost can I safely run?

On a completely stock motor you can safely run 8psi of boost using a rising rate fuel pressure regulator (RRFPR). With larger injectors and software you can run up to 12psi. The m42 motor has forged internals, making it a better candidate for high boost, unfortunately there aren't many options for ECU tuning with the OBD1 m42.

Who makes tuning software for a FI 318ti?
  • NickG - www.techniquetuning.com - NickG sells 3 different tuning packages for boosted m44's. He also sells software for N/A 318's. The stage 3 package includes larger injectors, larger MAF and software. This is the best software available for 318's at this time. NickG can also do custom programming for unique setups.

How much HP will my car make?
This depends on what else is done to your car, what condition your motor is in and how much boost you're running. With the DASC I've seen dynos that run from 170 to 210 rear wheel horepower (rwhp) running stock boost (7.5psi). You should have around 200 rwhp with the stock DASC on a healthy motor.

I haven't seen any dyno charts for the Mosselman turbo kit, please post them if you have them. I remember reading that the turbo kit made considerably less power than the supercharger.

What is the DASC and where can I buy it?

DASC is the Downing Atlanta supercharger. It can be purchased directly from Downing Atlanta (www.downingatlanta.com) or through several reseller. The kit retails for ~$3300, without installation.
Details:
Eaton M62 roots supercharger
Cast aluminum intake manifold and elbow
No intercooler (none needed)
7.5psi of boost stock
Uses a RRFPR for fuel management
C.A.R.B certified (OK for use in California or anywhere emissions are controlled)
4-10 hours to install (can be installed by a DIY-er)
OK for use with automatic transmission
OK for use with traction control
Complete bolt-on kit, no additional parts needed
Most common FI system for the 318, safest FI system for the 318

Where can I get a smaller pulley for my DASC?
Smaller pulleys are available from www.pulleyboys.com

Can I run Water Injection with the DASC?
Yes, but you should spray the WI after the blower. I stripped the coating off my supercharger by spraying before the blower.

Can I use a Blow-off Valve (BOV) on the DASC?

No, the DASC uses a by-pass valve when not under boost.

What should be upgraded when going with a FI system?
Clutch - The stock clutch will slip a little bit if you really push the car hard.
Exhaust - A cat-back exhaust system will make a really big difference with FI.
Brakes - If you go faster, you should be able to stop faster. High performance street or track pads should be good enough.
Spark Plugs - Go with a spark plug that is one heat range colder. For an NGK plug that's a 7.

What is the R-Speed check valve?
The R-Speed check valve is a one-way valve that goes on the vent tube between the injectors and the intake elbow. The valve will provide an additional 0.5psi of boost. Buy it here: http://rspeed.net/miata/item.asp?dep...2&prod=101-005 $40 w/o shipping. Note: NickG's Stage 2 and 3 tuning packages eliminate this hose and the need for the check valve.


Can I use the (insert chip name here) chip with the supercharger/turbo?

No, chips that are designed for N/A motors advance the timing too much for FI applications. Be sure to swap back to your original chip before installing a FI system.

How is ignition controlled with FI on a 318?
The stock ECU is capable of controlling ignition timing as long as you run less than 9psi of boost. The ECU uses 2 knock sensors to monitor knock and makes changes based on knock/temp/load/etc. Aftermarket tuning software uses a different ignition and fuel map to control ignition, but still uses the knock sensors.

Can I install big injectors or a big MAF?
Yes, but you will need either aftermarket ECU tuning or a piggyback to control them. You can not use the stock ECU to control larger injectors or a larger MAF.

Is there any difference in adding F/I between m42 & m44?
There are more software options for the m44 because it is OBD2. The m42 has forged internals so it should be able to handle more boost than the m44. In order to tune the m42 for high boost, you'll need to run piggyback fuel and ignition controllers (and tune them). Currently the best option is to use the DASC on a m44 with NickG's stage 3 tuning and run 10-12psi.

Will gas mileage be affected?
Good question. Gas mileage will decrease in town, but increase on the highway (if you use cruise control), this is because it takes less throttle to bring the car up to speed.

Your OBC will show that you are getting crazy good gas mileage, but it's not accurate. Once you install a RRFPR, you need to multiply the gas mileage by 0.666 (so 30mpg = 20mpg) to get an accurate mpg rating. Overall, it's not a very noticeable difference.

I've got 50K/100K/a bazillion K on my car... is it safe to S/C or will my engine blow up?
It depends on the health of your motor. I would do a compression test before purchasing a FI system. Check to make sure the compression is even across all cylinders and that you have at least 150psi in each cylinder. It all depends on how well the car was maintained. Take it to a mechanic if you are unsure. I installed the DASC on my car at 100k miles, I haven't had any problems with it.

Will I need to upgrade my drivetrain? Tranny? Diff?
This is something that you should decide after you install the supercharger. If you find that you have traction problems, you might consider upgrading to a limited slip differential (LSD) and/or some larger wheels. The 5 speed transmission can handle the additional power without issue. You might want to go with a stiffer clutch if you notice any slippage, but the stock clutch will work for most people. The automatic transmission will also hold the power, just be sure to limit the full boost shifts.

What is a Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator (RRFPR)?
A RRFPR is a device that increases fuel pressure in the fuel system. The RRFPR is plumbed inline with the return fuel line, after the fuel rail. It has a vacuum line that attaches to the boost side of the intake manifold (after the turbo/supercharger). When the RRFPR sees boost on the vacuum line, it "pinches" the fuel line, causing the fuel pressure to increase. Additional fuel pressure means more fuel is sprayed every time the fuel injector is opened. The RRFPR works well for FI systems under 10psi, after than the RRFPR is unable to provide enough pressure to run a stoich mixture.

Is there a way to lower the blow temperature, other than spraying water?
Chad (ZeroG) designed an air-to-water intercooler for the DASC. I believe he still posts on this forum. More info on the air to water intercooler can be found at www.itsallaboutspeed.com. Spraying a mixture of water and methanol seems to be the best way to cool FI systems that don't use intercoolers.

Also, if I install NOS with the supercharger, do I put the NOS nozzle before or after the blower?
Because of the extreme temperature and pressure of spraying Nitrous Oxide, you should spray AFTER the supercharger. I would recommend a 4 nozzle wet system to ensure an even mixture (since most intake manifold are asymmetrical).
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Old 08-04-2006, 06:11 PM   #2
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Default Forced Induction FAQ - Required reading for n00bs!

What tools will I need to install the DASC?
Besides the parts supplied by DASC you will need:
  • Ramps / jack stands / jack to get under the car for draining etc.
  • Good METRIC socket (and deep well socket) set with the range of sockets listed in the dasc manual
  • Good set of METRIC wrenches (have these sizes in sockets too)
  • (sizes in mm 9, 10+deep, 11+deep, 12, 13+deep, 14, 15, 16, 17)
  • Set of screwdrivers
  • 5mm hex key (or hex socket head)
  • 6mm hex key (or hex socket head)
  • T-30 Torx bit
  • Side cutters
  • Drain pan (or bucket like i used)
  • Funnel (if you need it to fill the coolant - i didn't have one)
  • a torque wrench that covers the required range (6.5ft-lb - 30ft-lb)
  • WD-40
  • Quality electrical tape (some is supplied in the kit but i prefered better quality)
  • Labels / tags for remembering what connected to what connection
  • A note pad and pencils (just incase you need to take a note

If you are adding the technique tunning stage 2 or 3 kits at this time then the above listed tools are all you need for that too
(Thanks Ian!)

What about the system maintenance?
The Eaton supercharger does not require any maintenance. Since the supercharger uses the same serpentine belt as the engine, you'll need to replace that when it's scheduled to be changed. Always keep you air filter clean.

What gauges should I run?

If you're using the RRFPR, I'd recommend a boost gauge and a fuel pressure gauge. A wideband oxygen sensor is nice, but since you can't really do any tuning to the car, it's kind of useless.

Where can I get my supercharger rebuilt or serviced?
http://superchargertech.com/ - I have personally used these guys. It costs about $500 to get an Eaton m62 rebuilt.

What kind of sounds does the supercharger make?
The charger makes a whine the higher the revs you go.
the intake makes a sucking sound like a inhaling as hard as you can through your lips when they are shaped to blow a whistle

How does a superchargered 318 compare to an m3?
If the Ti and the m3 had the same power you would feal it better in the Ti due to it being lighter. If the M3 had higher torque (as the 3.2L should) then it should pull harder (accellerate)
debateable with reguards to corners as different people like different suspensions.

Is the oil cooler really necessary for a supercharger?
I don't have one and my car is fine. If i was doing a lot of track work i would add one tho.. can't hurt.

At how many rpms can I drop the clutch?

Depends on your clutch, your tyres, the road surface, the weather etc. best acceleration is that sweat spot between slip and grip that only the driver at the time can determin. Just remember that the longer that you slip the clutch, the shorter you clutch will live. A charger will put more load on the clutch and reduce it's life. most people would use it till it dies and then replace it with a stronger unit.

Will having a lighter flywheel be a good benefit as more quickness coming off the line and gaining speeds quicker?
That depends who you ask. Since boost is rpm dependant you want to keep revs high in between shifts, etc. I like heavier flywheels, some people like lighter ones, it's a matter of personal preference. Any input from other members with flywheels and FI?

How long does it take for the kit to break in?
That's a question for the kit manufacturer.

Does the DASC kit come with the Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator

Everything needed for the install is included (not including tools) so, yes, the RRFPR is included.

What octane fuel should I run?
Simple answer: You MUST run the highest octane available. I run 93 since that's the highest I can find. Higher octane fuel prevents detonation. Detonation causes the ECU to retard the timing, which in turn means LESS power. Also, the DASC is C.A.R.B certified, but only if you run 93 octane.

More to come.....
Please post any suggestions.
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Last edited by 1996 328ti; 01-02-2010 at 01:18 AM.
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Old 08-09-2006, 07:14 AM   #3
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For reference here's the dyno chart that D-A has on their site:

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Old 10-09-2006, 02:46 AM   #4
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Please remember that this is NOT a discussion thread. Please only post questions and answers that we can add to the FAQ. Thanks.
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Old 01-03-2007, 10:30 PM   #5
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http://www.kormanfastbmw.com/turbos.htm

Mosselman turbo specs.
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:20 PM   #6
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what all parts in a M42 are forged? In an M42 wouldn't it be wise to do a little internal work to the motor before FI, like upgraded head gasket and a little head work first?
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Old 05-17-2008, 07:43 PM   #7
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Can the stock sepentine belt be used with a DASC or does a longer one need to be purshased?
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Old 05-18-2008, 10:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgrimm View Post
Can the stock sepentine belt be used with a DASC or does a longer one need to be purshased?
The belt is longer.
Here is a picture of the belt that comes with the kit showing part numbers.
Belt
other belts from other manufacturers will work fine. I have been running a different belt for about 3 years but i don't have the part number here. Just make sure it's the correct length and style (Micro-V i think)

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Old 08-14-2008, 11:15 PM   #9
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Please refer to post #4 in this thread.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:24 PM   #10
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Default Water/Methanol injection

DustenT or anyone else... any tips for running water/methanol injection? What do I need? How often do I need to add washer fluid? Where does it inject to? A how to would be very helpful :-D.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:56 PM   #11
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I haven't done it myself but i do remember a few threads from people who had attempted it and ended up having to refurbish their damaged supercharger. I whould say only do it if you really know what your doing and if you can afford to do a rebuild if something stuffs up.
Also, this is the FAQ, this really should have been asked in a new thread.
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustenT View Post
Official 318ti Forced Induction (FI) FAQ Thread.

This thread will be dedicated to frequently asked questions related to Forced Induction. Please post your questions here, and I'll combine all the questions and answers and keep them at the top of the thread.

Read "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell for a better understanding of turbos. Read "Supercharged!" by Corky Bell for a better understanding of superchargers.

Questions:

What FI systems are availabe for the 318ti?

Current there are only 2 systems available for the m42/m44 motor.
  • Mosselman makes a low boost turbo kit (5-6psi). http://www.kormanfastbmw.com/turbos.htm
  • Downing Atlanta (DASC) make a supercharger for the m42 and m44 that uses an Eaton M62 roots supercharger. See additional information below.
  • SEAM is currently developing an intercooled twin screw supercharger. More info will be posted when it is released.
  • Midnight Auto is selling a supercharger kit, but it's more of a collection of parts than a complete bolt-on kit. I recommend you DON'T buy this kit.
Great sticky thread here, but I would suggest an update:

-Mosselman: seems to no longer produce a turbo kit
http://www.mosselmanturbo.com/
-Downing Atlanta: sadly Jim stopped producing this kits because the manufacturer of the blower discontinued its production.
http://downingatlanta.com/downingatl...argers_new.htm
-SEAM: don't have a clue
-Midnight Auto: looks like it vanished with no glory.


So it looks like there aren't many choices now days for boosting our M44 engines

Last edited by max_moto; 05-27-2012 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:58 AM   #13
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Anyone know the exact part number for the proper belt to be used on a DASC? I have a 1995 318ti w/ one and need to get that part number. Thanks!
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:00 AM   #14
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they can usually measure the old one at the parts store...

I usually go .5 to 1 inch shorter than thier measure gadget due to the old belt having stretched...

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Old 07-01-2014, 03:23 PM   #15
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i have an m44 dasc kit i am planning on putting on an m42 E30. what parts do i need to make that swap? i understand that the pullys may be different thread and size.
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