SCCA autoX: FSP for 2009?

[username]

The 318ti has (oops, NOT yet) been moved to F Street Prepared for 2009... Is anyone here planning on campaigning one in FSP possibly in a future year?

I picked up a base '95 last year and was going to daily drive it with the occasional track day/rallycross. In the driveway is a perfectly good Miata built for STS2... But I've gotten kinda bored with the Miata and want to play with the 'ti.

I think I found some wide 15" wheels required to run the 275/35/15 Hoosier... Look for me in the WTB/For Sale forums soon if the build gets going.

Aaron

[tiFreak]

275? those are some meaty tires, do you actually need them?

[gimp]

Was it for certain moved? That could change my mind when I go to do a clutch.

2009 rules do not show the ti in FSP (DSP has 16v NOC cars)

[username]

Doh! I'm wrong on the 2009 part. Paul, thanks for pointing that out.

I heard the rumor and saw the FasTrack proposal last year... As soon as the 2009 Rulebook came out, I looked directly at the FSP section "318i NOC" line and mistakenly got all excited. You're right, it's still caught by the "16v NOC" in DSP. This is what 4 hours of sleep each night gets you.

Anyhow, how about we turn this into a "318ti in *SP" thread and discuss build ideas while hoping/anticipating playing in FSP? I did a search here (as a good n00b would do first) and it looks like a fresh thread might be in order.

[username]

OK, here are my thoughts on what a decent build would have, in rough order. I'm going off of what I've seen in FSP now, and what I think I learned building an STS2 (now STS) Miata.

Basics (aka do these and drive it for a while)

1) 275/35-15 Hoosiers on suitably wide (10"+) wheels
2) Camber/caster (over -2 camber, lots of caster)
3) Coilovers
4) Big(ger) front bar
5) Not open diff (OE clutch diff good, welded worth trying?)
6) Higher rev limit to regain 2nd gear speed due gearing decrease (Conforti/Turner chip is cheap)
7) Solid suspension bushings (fresh OE at very least, delrin/poly better)
8) Standard maintenance items

Details (aka I'm fast now and want to get really fast):

9) Lightness (battery, seats, remove a/c, lighter exhaust, flywheel/clutch, remove stereo, lose airbag in steering wheel)
10) Smaller steering wheel for quicker steering response
11) Power (external engine management, M44 swap, engine freshening, pulleys, trick exhaust)
12) Rain setup (225-ish street tires, Toyo R1Rs? Stay with short 23" size?)

Feedback welcome...

[username]

Oh yeah, on the 275s... I think they're a good idea for a serious build. The BMW 2002 that got 1st/2nd in FSP last year had them (plus some great drivers.) Check it out:

http://www.gotcone.com/pgallery/?level=picture&id=31630

I get the impression that if they're not too much tire for that car, they wouldn't be too much on the 318ti. Another option would be the wide 17/18" sizes, but they're around 25" rolling diameter instead of 23"... And thus increase weight, rolling inertia, CG and lose the "poor man's gearing reduction".

[gimp]

Originally Posted by username

OK, here are my thoughts on what a decent build would have, in rough order. I'm going off of what I've seen in FSP now, and what I think I learned building an STS2 (now STS) Miata.

Basics (aka do these and drive it for a while)

1) 275/35-15 Hoosiers on suitably wide (10"+) wheels
2) Camber/caster (over -2 camber, lots of caster)
3) Coilovers
4) Big(ger) front bar
5) Not open diff (OE clutch diff good, welded worth trying?)
6) Higher rev limit to regain 2nd gear speed due gearing decrease (Conforti/Turner chip is cheap)
7) Solid suspension bushings (fresh OE at very least, delrin/poly better)
8) Standard maintenance items

Details (aka I'm fast now and want to get really fast):

9) Lightness (battery, seats, remove a/c, lighter exhaust, flywheel/clutch, remove stereo, lose airbag in steering wheel)
10) Smaller steering wheel for quicker steering response
11) Power (external engine management, M44 swap, engine freshening, pulleys, trick exhaust)
12) Rain setup (225-ish street tires, Toyo R1Rs? Stay with short 23" size?)

Feedback welcome...

Not a bad start, but...

1) 275/35-15 Hoosiers on suitably wide (10"+) wheels 285/30/18 on D-Force LTW5 18x10's +43
2) Camber/caster (over -2 camber, lots of caster) -4* negative and as much caster using Vorshlag camber plates
3) Coilovers - YES, Vorshalg setup with custom rear shock with extra droop travel
4) Big(ger) front bar - YES, Eibach good, Ground Control better
5) Not open diff (OE clutch diff good, welded worth trying?) - Factory diff is good, aftermarket better. Do NOT weld.
6) Higher rev limit to regain 2nd gear speed due gearing decrease (Conforti/Turner chip is cheap) - YUP
7) Solid suspension bushings (fresh OE at very least, delrin/poly better) - Derlin/poly is legal, "solid is not"
8) Standard maintenance items - Of course
9) Lightness (battery, seats, remove a/c, lighter exhaust, flywheel/clutch, remove stereo, lose airbag in steering wheel) - Sounds Good. Cut the fenders to clear the tires
10) Smaller steering wheel for quicker steering response - not sure it woudl do that much for you
11) Power (external engine management, M44 swap, engine freshening, pulleys, trick exhaust) - don't forget porting of intake, larger tb, injectors, etc to support custom tune
12) Rain setup (225-ish street tires, Toyo R1Rs? Stay with short 23" size?) - Maybe Hoosier wets in a 245?

Honestly, do all of that and you'll have a damn fast 318ti, that will still be down on power compared to other DSP BMWs. Probably not worth it.

We all should just write letters to get it moved to FSP.

[mgbman69]

^+1 for that... If they move to FSP I'll have to lose the fun comfortable DD and go all hardcore on it :-)

ps, thanks again for the springs, Paul. Be watching for my build thread on here. I'm starting the work on Friday.

[mohaughn]

With stock power I'm not sure why you would run wheels that big or wide. The Ti just doesn't have the torque to move a big fat wide tire. Not to mention how much that large of a tire weighs... At some point running a wider tire will start to slow you down from having more rolling resistance.

I'd start with a 235 or so and slowly work your way up with data acquisition until you find the sweet spot for tire size/weight.

You can lose 4 pounds of unsprung weight on each corner by going with a smaller tire. I'd do a super wide 15" tire before I would think about running the same tire on an 18.

If the Ti had 220+ hp sure, you might need the extra traction, but I find that it is pretty hard to over drive a 235 width tire with stock power.

[mgbman69]

^this is a good point.... The 275-35-15 might not be a bad fit for this build..

[Dan I]

I'm in the process of fitting 18x10 with 285s...looks like there's room so far

[username]

Dan, the Vorshlag crew has a good writeup on fitting the 18x10 and 285s. It looks like they had to resort to "surgery" to get clearance, and show some options on flares:

http://www.vorshlagmotorsports.com/f...ead.php?t=5677

Clearance is possibly one more benefit to the wide 15" Hoosiers - they might clear unmolested fenders while allowing plenty of travel in compression. I think the R6 is available in 275/35-15, nice for when you need to be fast for more than a just few minutes.

[dave45056]

Why would you want to do a M44 swap (step 11)?

[gimp]

Actually, I'm not so into the M44 swap. M42 with a chip is pretty much the same power and easier engine management.

[username]

I think I see (feel?) what you both are saying about keeping the M42. Ours got the Turner chip last week and it really woke up the car in the lower/middle end of the powerband. Last week I also heard a story of an M44 gaining nothing on the dyno after a reflash, so it all makes sense.

My wife talked me into not selling our Miata just yet, so our 'ti budget is pretty modest for this season. Maintenance items and consumables for track/rallycross. Maybe do some of the cheaper weight loss changes.

On the weight front, I always enjoy seeing (car) weight loss programs documented. Andy Hollis did a great one for his STS2 Miata project. I think I'll do another post with some guesstimates and maybe y'all can help refine the numbers...