Ethanol Free Gas

[Maverix]

Thought this might help some users find a ethanol free gas station.

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

[trikzta]

dont wanna sound stupid but i really have never heard of pure gas.. i thought everything just had ethanol in it.. but im assuming ethanol free gas is way better for any engine? except the flex fuel cars?

[bullmand]

It depends on where you live as to how long it's been required that there be ethanol in your gas, but the federal mandate's been around for probably around 5 years now. Some states had it before that, but it was mostly the farm states. I believe the additive of choice prior to the ethanol was MTBE until they figured out that it was polluting groundwater. Our cars were not designed to run on gas with ethanol in them and for that and various other reasons it's just a bad idea. Because it's a federal mandate it's really hard to find it without. You probably have to find a marina or an airport that will sell it to you.

[elfhearse]

Reduced performance and lower MPG with e10. I lost about 3MPG when switching to e10 in my 318ti. There are a few remaining no ethanol (Pure gas) stations where I live but the availability of 93 octane has disappeared.

Another good link: Ethanol Free Premium Coalition
http://www.e0pc.com/talking_points.php

THE MAIN REASON:
"The terminal gets the federal blending tax credit. The tax credit is $0.45 / gallon of ethanol blended"

[zoner]

LOL- there's one station in CA, and it's a boat marina. Damn!

[Mr.Squeelerz]

Originally Posted by elfhearse

Reduced performance and lower MPG with e10. I lost about 3MPG when switching to e10 in my 318ti. There are a few remaining no ethanol (Pure gas) stations where I live but the availability of 93 octane has disappeared.

Another good link: Ethanol Free Premium Coalition
http://www.e0pc.com/talking_points.php

THE MAIN REASON:
"The terminal gets the federal blending tax credit. The tax credit is $0.45 / gallon of ethanol blended"

If you go to your local airport you can get 100 octane AV fuel, though I would not recommend it.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

What are the issues with E10 other then worst MPG amd performance people are saying? I have run both E10 and non from the marine and not noticed any differrence on MPG or perfoemance. Not that I condone E10

I'm aware of marine issues where the boats with built in tanks made of fibreglass with poly epoxy get destroyed by the ethanol and leak.

Are there any positives?

Does E10 offer better detonation properties? You bump your timing and have more performance and better MPG.

Does E10 offer any water absorbing properties to remove any water in your tank and keep it free of moisture?

Does E10 offer any octane advantage or is that reduced or off-set by the gas distiller mixing crappier gas to make your 93 octane?

Does E10 burn slightly cooler helping to keep exhaust temps down?

I don't know these answers so I thought I would ask.

It's like for every 10 gallons of gas you put in your car 1 of those gallons was moonshine What's wrong with that?

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Originally Posted by Mr.Squeelerz

If you go to your local airport you can get 100 octane AV fuel, though I would not recommend it.

Yes this is 100LL. LL stands for low lead. It will damage your O2's pretty quick. Also it has anti-foaming agents in it and is made to run at altitude. Don't get me wrong I run that stuff in my go-cart when I was a kid a milled the head to 190psi, Also ran it on a nitrous boat with a small shot of N2O and it was good gas, worked great just not with O2 sensors

[zoner]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnBoyxxx

Yes this is 100LL. LL stands for low lead. It will damage your O2's pretty quick. Also it has anti-foaming agents in it and is made to run at altitude. Don't get me wrong I run that stuff in my go-cart when I was a kid a milled the head to 190psi, Also ran it on a nitrous boat with a small shot of N2O and it was good gas, worked great just not with O2 sensors

+1

The only people I know that run av-gas are the muscle car guys that have high compression engines designed for leaded gas w/o O2 sensors.

[UberWagen]

There's a bunch around where I live. Ethanol free 93 octane is what I run

[tiFreak]

nothing near me, there used to be one right in town but they had to change to ethanol

[bullmand]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnBoyxxx

What are the issues with E10 other then worst MPG amd performance people are saying? I have run both E10 and non from the marine and not noticed any differrence on MPG or perfoemance. Not that I condone E10

I'm aware of marine issues where the boats with built in tanks made of fibreglass with poly epoxy get destroyed by the ethanol and leak.

Are there any positives?

Does E10 offer better detonation properties? You bump your timing and have more performance and better MPG.

Does E10 offer any water absorbing properties to remove any water in your tank and keep it free of moisture?

Does E10 offer any octane advantage or is that reduced or off-set by the gas distiller mixing crappier gas to make your 93 octane?

Does E10 burn slightly cooler helping to keep exhaust temps down?

I don't know these answers so I thought I would ask.

It's like for every 10 gallons of gas you put in your car 1 of those gallons was moonshine What's wrong with that?

I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert on ethanol, but here's some stuff I found mixed with a good dose of stuff I think I know from reading other stuff over the last few years.

The first four are from the Wikipedia article on ethanol. The rest are the things I think I know.

1. Ethanol contains approx. 34% less energy per unit volume than gasoline, and therefore in theory, burning pure ethanol in a vehicle will result in a 34% reduction in miles per US gallon , given the same fuel economy, compared to burning pure gasoline.
2. Since ethanol has a higher octane rating, the engine can be made more efficient by raising its compression ratio.
3. Based on EPA tests for all 2006 E85 models, the average fuel economy for E85 vehicles resulted 25.56% lower than unleaded gasoline.
4. The total amount of energy input into the process compared to the energy released by burning the resulting ethanol fuel is known as the energy balance (or "Net energy gain"). Figures compiled in 2007 by National Geographic Magazine[49] point to modest results for corn ethanol produced in the US: one unit of fossil-fuel energy is required to create 1.3 energy units from the resulting ethanol. My note - which is then between 25% and 30% less fuel efficient and makes it close to one to one which means it's a waste of time, money, and energy.
5. Ethanol is corrosive to rubber and plastic that are not designed for ethanol use.
6. Ethanol is added to gas at the shipping terminals immediately before the gas is sent to the stations because of both the corrosive nature of the ethanol and the fact that it does absorb a fair amount of water from the atmosphere.
7. In this country the vast majority of ethanol is made from corn. That's food and it's just a bad idea to use that as a source.
8. It's bad for our checkbooks. We pay subsidies to corn farmers to grow the corn, and then we subsidize the ethanol production in the form of tax breaks for the ethanol producers. After all that, we're taxed by the feds and our local governments on whatever comes out of the pump.

I think that's about it. I'll put the soapbox back in storage for now

[R100RS]

I treat the 318ti the same as my 1981 R100RS motorcycle and my collection of Opels, as they were definitely not designed for ethanol. That is, I avoid ethanol whenever possible or practical, knowing a tankful here and there probably won't cause any major problems.

But for winter storage, I think it's a good idea to have as little ethanol in the tank as possible. "Oxygenated" fuels seem to turn foul fairly fast (a matter of weeks sometimes), as opposed to ethanol-free fuel.

I've heard that ethanol is pretty rough on 2-cycle engines as well. Add that to the many "hidden" costs of burning corn EtOH....

-Kurt

[pdxmotorhead]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnBoyxxx

What are the issues with E10 other then worst MPG amd performance people are saying? I have run both E10 and non from the marine and not noticed any difference on MPG or performance. Not that I condone E10

I'm aware of marine issues where the boats with built in tanks made of fibreglass with poly epoxy get destroyed by the ethanol and leak.

Are there any positives?

Does E10 offer better detonation properties? You bump your timing and have more performance and better MPG.

- -Yes to a point. Its the main ingredient besides Methanol in many octane boosters.

Does E10 offer any water absorbing properties to remove any water in your tank and keep it free of moisture?

- Opposite, Alchohol is hydro-scopic and when you mix it with gas is mildly corrosive/Base. It often has way more water content out of the pump than regular fuel because regular fuel and water don't mix in the big tanks at the distributor.

Does E10 offer any octane advantage or is that reduced or off-set by the gas distiller mixing crappier gas to make your 93 octane?

- - I had the opportunity to work at some races with a Sunoco fuel Chemist a couple years ago. This is one of the guys who designs the additive packages for the Gas companies to get the right octane etc. He said its pointless to mix race gas and pump fuel. The thing is, the packages are very exotic chemicals that are different day to day vendor to vendor because the fuel changes out of the refineries. Some of the packages are additive some are a even steven and many are a LOSS of octane when mixed. Example, Arco and Chevron Premium before MTBE was removed the 92 octane premiums combined to make 80 octane fuel.... If ya want race gas buy it and run it, otherwise tune for pump.

Does E10 burn slightly cooler helping to keep exhaust temps down?

- -Its offset by the other additives in the fuel that heat the mix back up, unless your talking E85 or E100. They definitely cool the tail pipe off.
You can get a IR pyrometer gun from harbour freight for 40 bucks I use the heck out of mine tuning.....

I don't know these answers so I thought I would ask.

It's like for every 10 gallons of gas you put in your car 1 of those gallons was moonshine What's wrong with that?

I'd rather have the gallon of whiskey...in a jar instead of my car....

Dave