M44 and more power!

[bmw2101]

I have a m44 engine in my 1998 e36 compact.

Its now got shrich cams, a chip from a guy here called enda ward, and it goes well.

Now, i have another engine im building which also is a m44, i have had a head ported for it, and im going to get a sump modded to have more capacity and also baffeled too.


So the question now is, what else can i do to the engine?

This car is a rally car, the rules say it has to be on the standard inlet manifold unmodifyed, no turbos, or anything liek that.

I have looked into the 88mm crank, but i have bought 1 rover engine so far wrongly as it had the right crank but the short nose.

I also have some m3 3000cc euro pistons. Am i right in saying these are shorter than the m44 ones?


So please can you advise me on this?

thankyou!

Ps, im from Nr liverpol england

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Sorry I have no info for more power since I don't know the rules you race in.

Question: Where did you get Shrich cams for a M44? Do you have the specs on those cams? lift/duration on both intake and exhaust cam?

What type of valve springs are you running?

Can you bore the TB or is that against your rules?

Thanks, John S

[bmw2101]

Rules exactly are:

18.2. Vehicle engines must have: 18.2.1. A maximum of four cylinders. 18.2.2. A maximum of two carburettor chokes (two single or one double). 18.2.3. A maximum of one camshaft per bank of cylinders. 18.2.4. Engines with more than one camshaft per bank of cylinders may be used providing that they were originally fitted with fuel injection and that the fuel injection system complete with plenum chamber and throttle body is retained unmodified. 18.2.5. For diesel and petrol engines under 1500cc actual capacity, forced induction is permitted providing that the complete original induction system is retained unmodified, other than the replacement of the air filter element. 18.3.1. Fuel injection may be fitted where it was standard equipment by the manufacturer for that engine type and where the original plenum chamber and throttle body is retained for that engine type. 18.3.2. A standard Wankel unit will be considered as three cylinders – twin Wankel units are prohibited. 18.3.3. Engines must comply with the silencing levels G.11.1, J.5.17 and 4.1 and have induction air filter elements fitted that ensure the vehicle complies with noise regulations J.5.17




Now that does mean i can put a honda s2000 engine int eh car for now, but i think next year its going to be banned.


Now the car has standard 1600 box, but its getting a is200 6 speed to it, and it has a medium LSD with atlas plate conversion with a 5.0:1 ratio.

the cams i dont know anything about, i just know it has them for 100% sure, i bought the engine second hand, they where in it. I dont know how they are timed in, or anything, i must chech that. I think the wildest ones you can have on a motor with out piston mods is 256 duration, that means absolutly nothing to me, but from net research that is what i think they are.

Standard everything else like valve gear and rockers only have a chip to take the rev limit to 7 and also the map is what the compact cup race lads use to to be fair with a standard m44 it had no grunt low down.


someone told me today maybe the DISA??? in the inlet isnt working but i dont know.


But is there any engine mods to do that are worth it while i have one apart?

thankyou!"

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Larger valves in the head. Porting work will only net 6% more air flow and it has to be done by someone that knows where to remove material or the head will flow worst. Remove overlap from the cam timing for more low end torque. Add overlap for high rpm HP. I don't run a DISA I gut it and use the valve only to cover the hole in the manifold. I don't believe a DISA is useful on a modified motor. DISA closes off two intake runners on low end and opens around 3,500 so all 4 intake runners are open. M47 crank so it's a stroker

That's about all I have for you.

I asked about the cams since I've never heard of M4x Shrich cams, must be a custom grind

[bmw2101]

do you know what valves you can put into the head? I have a head that has been ported, but i havnt collected it yet. I had the exhaust manifold ported too to match and remove all teh rough bits inside too.
Does your motor pull from below 4,000 that is where mine is really suffereing. I was thinking of just cabletying it open see if that made a difference.

There is a black valve thing on the inlet that goes to a breather pipe i think it is, i hear people block these off too, do you do that also?

Does increasing the size of the throttle body help? I cant do this, but i hear it just make the motor make more induction noise and no performance increases.

I dont know of m4x cams, tbh, i just havnt a clue whats in there but they defo arnt standard!

[bmw2101]

would it be better to use the m42 inlet manifold that dosnt have this DISA in it?

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

I have excellent low end torque due to the M47 stroker crank. The TB does pull a vacuum on a stock motor from 5,500 up. I know this since I ran a DASC on a stock Mww and the bypass valve fluttered at high RPM which I tracked down to the TB vacuum port pulling a vacuum at High RPM, I posted a thread on the exact spec a stock TB could be bored which did help airflow and increased top end power. This mod has no negative affect on low end.

Will type more later I have a drag boat here I'm working on and the customer is tired of me on the computer and not his boat

[bmw2101]

could you please tell me exactly what your crank is out of i got a diesel one from a m47 rover engine and it was the 88mm one buty short. what i read ont he net said that was the motor to have so i ebay bought it and cost me a mint.


ill do the same as yoyu then witht he disa also.

thankyou!

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Originally Posted by bmw2101

could you please tell me exactly what your crank is out of i got a diesel one from a m47 rover engine and it was the 88mm one buty short. what i read ont he net said that was the motor to have so i ebay bought it and cost me a mint.


ill do the same as yoyu then witht he disa also.

thankyou!

It is the same crank M47 Diesel crank 88mm. The front snout needs to be machined (Cut I think) and new keyway cut. Also you have to run a 1995 timing case cover and mount your CPS on the cover to read the 60/2 teeth for crank position since M47 does not have the internal teeth ring. Also the M47 crank is forged and can take bursts of 700+ HP

Back to work on the boat, Later John S

[bmw2101]

ah the crank i had was short on the front and it had a ring on the back for the timing.



it was like that one, but i gather the one i need is quite a bit different!


Do you have pics of yours?



I really want to go down this route but no one seems to actually know what to do until yourself now!!!



good luck with the boat!

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

I will have to get some pictures for you. There are posts with all three cranks you can install. Will need to find them. Also I have them in my photobucket but forgot my password and don't know my reset questions answers. Will figure that out soon. The crank you show is not even close to what is a M47 crank. Metric Mechanic has them already machined for you M4x block look them up. Tell them John Smith sent you. Mary answers the phone. Jim is the Dad, Teddy is Jim's son and Courtney is the assembler. They are all great people and love to talk tech on the phone with anyone customer or not...

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Also I forgot some things and I'm sure I will remember more after this post. Change to a single roller timing chain, single row timing sprockets, run the Hayabusa race valve springs w/ titanium retainers & keepers, Volvo sodium filled valves. This will lighten up rotating mass which every pound of rotating weight removed is the same as removing 15 pounds of dead weight. Every little thing you can do to remove rotating mass will add up and net a big acceleration increase

I have run the exact setup listed above on the street for 40K under high boost and very hard driving with no issues. You really don't need the Volvo valves unless your running high boost which I consider 17 -28 psi. I do this on 93 octane and boost controlled progressive methanol injection to control detonation. The Volvo valves have a large valve seat contact area which helps to remove heat and stop them from burning under the high boost.

John S

[bmw2101]

do metric mechanic use new cranks? I was doing the maths on the conversion etc and its going to be around £1,000+ for a crank! i was hoping to have it all built for that ! LOL!

Now the crank i had i never tried it in the block, but it looked a lot like the m44 stock one, OR like the m47 90mm one although it was defo a 88mm one. It was a rover engine but it was a bmw engine and it was defo a m47 engine too. My flywheel also fitted fine.


With the m44 also, i have one piston out and i have also some m3 3000cc pistons euro ones, they are shorter little end to top of piston height, i was suprised i thought they would be tallter.


For a n/a engine, reving to 7 what should be in it?

thanks!

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Originally Posted by bmw2101

do metric mechanic use new cranks?


For a n/a engine, reving to 7 what should be in it?

thanks!

Metric uses new cranks and does all the machine work.

I ran a 15 psi boosted M44 stock cast crank with my rev limiter at 7,500 and did that for 70-80K miles turned in that stock motor as a core with almost 200K on it and was told by Metric the motor still had a lot of miles left on it.

I think the stock crank is fine it is the stock rods you have to worry about. Also money shifts will kill a stock motor since the valve springs suck and float causing bent valve when they contact the piston. I think 8K would destroy a M4x motor due to stock valves it might even throw a rod and make a big window in your block so be careful. Nick G DASC tunes are set at 6,800 so an extra 200 rpm is really nothing

I think a M42 has a forged crank stock from the factory.

[bmw2101]

is the main reason teh stroker works as it ups the compression a bit? 10 isnt that high is it? I dont relly know you see...

If i stopped with the starndard crank, and bored the motor out i hear i could use m3 3200cc pistons, if i was to do that what would you do about a head gasket?

Are m3 con rods stronger and suitable?

Im starting to think getting a 88mm crank is going to be hard!