Roll Cage Set up?

[eurohb]

Does Anyone have pics of a roll Cage in a Ti? My uncle has one but won't let me actually put it to good use so imma end up fabricating one up, just wanted to see some pics of some and feedback. Also i am not going to be using the backseats..... i just dnt like passengers

[cooljess76]

Originally Posted by EuroJDMHB

Does Anyone have pics of a roll Cage in a Ti? My uncle has one but won't let me actually put it to good use so imma end up fabricating one up, just wanted to see some pics of some and feedback. Also i am not going to be using the backseats..... i just dnt like passengers

Bryan, a roll cage isn't actually safe in a street car. Especially with stock seats and restraints. You see, when they design a car, they take into consideration where the occupants will likely impact the interior in the event of an accident. Unless you plan on wearing a helmet every time you drive your car, it's just not safe. Padding on the cage itself will not protect you. Say the cage sits to the back left of your head. You get rear ended or hit somewher around the left rear of your car. Your head is going to hit that cage like hitting a stop sign at 50mph. It's the unanticipated impacts that are dangerous. Sure you can brace yourself, but what happens when you're hit unexpectedly.

[eurohb]

oh cool jesse.. I was thinkin about buyin it and just keeping the Ti stored cuz I wanna track the car with a 4point cage just as a show thing but also functional too not like harolds =P

[1996 328ti]

What benefit do you think a 4 pt rollbar will provide? That is not a cage.
It might make the car a bit more rigid.

If you want 5 or 6 pt harnesses, then I'd say get a rollbar and racing buckets.

Speaking about the track, you have a greater chance of going into a wall than rolling.

[eurohb]

Originally Posted by 1996 328ti

What benefit do you think a 4 pt rollbar will provide? That is not a cage.
It might make the car a bit more rigid.

If you want 5 or 6 pt harnesses, then I'd say get a rollbar and racing buckets.

Speaking about the track, you have a greater chance of going into a wall than rolling.

guess you haven't seen some of the tracks out in SoCal then and imma probably put a 5point , and a bucket

[1996 328ti]

Originally Posted by EuroJDMHB

guess you haven't seen some of the tracks out in SoCal then and imma probably put a 5point , and a bucket

How many cars have you seen roll?

[DaveKern]

I'm looking at buying a Ti to build into a rally car. Here's the cage I'm thinking of getting: click here

I'd echo those above who cautioned against driving in a caged car daily. I've heard stories about a guy in a miata with a roll hoop getting rear-ended, and waking up the next day at home with blood all over his pillow. That said, guys racing rally cars do have to transit on public streets during events. So, it depends on your setup.

My Evo has a cage from Custom Cages, and I use seats with integrated head restraints (Racetech 9004), so it'd be damn near impossible for my head to hit a roll cage bar (which are covered in FIA approved padding), and I'm always belted in tight with 6-point harness.

Dave

[DaveKern]

Originally Posted by 1996 328ti

How many cars have you seen roll?

There was a guy in a Minicooper who was killed last year at a track out west. Car put two wheels off the track and he tried to correct, and ended up snap oversteering back across the track, and then it went over.

Impact crashes are definately more common than rollovers at the track, but IMO, preparing for the worst is never a bad idea. Having a proper cage will allow for harness use and a HANS (or similar device). I have two friends who are alive likely due to their HANS, the hit a tree head on at 75mph.

Dave

[1996 328ti]

Originally Posted by DaveKern

There was a guy in a Minicooper who was killed last year at a track out west. Car put two wheels off the track and he tried to correct, and ended up snap oversteering back across the track, and then it went over.

Impact crashes are definately more common than rollovers at the track, but IMO, preparing for the worst is never a bad idea. Having a proper cage will allow for harness use and a HANS (or similar device). I have two friends who are alive likely due to their HANS, the hit a tree head on at 75mph.

Dave

Yes. Obviously I wasn't there, but if you are going off, go off. Tragic that someone would loose their life over it. I can understand a full cage, but I've seen a few cars roll in gravel traps. I think the fact that our cars have frames around the door and a fixed B pillar, makes then a bit safer in a rollover than a coupe.

[mohaughn]

That guy was ejected from the car. That is what I believe to be one of the dangers of NASA TT. They don't require very much safety protection, and they certainly don't require the "system" that many other sanctioning bodies require.

News reports said he was using a DOT approved 4-point, the only one like that that I know of is a schroth 4 point with ASM. It is not the kind of belt that I would use if I was competing in a high speed event. It is very likely that the same thing would have happened had he been using the stock 3 point belt. There was no bracing, or ducking/diving to avoid the roof collapsing. When you get in an accident, you are along for the ride, you are not fighting the g-forces and ducking out of the way of anything.

I don't think there is any safety problem running a 4 point roll bar on the street, ie., without a helmet. I rarely drive mine on the street, but I'm comfortable running it without a helmet. If my head hits the hoop, that means my composite seat is broken. They should flex, not break.

I would pay a professional welder to do any cage work, especially if you want it to be functional. There are to many little tricks that make a cage strong to do it as a DIY, unless you are a good welder yourself. But good, may not be GOOD enough.

[1996 328ti]

I use a 4-pt Schroth w/ASM. Track only though. I like to be able to reach creature comforts like the radio when I'm driving.
But now I'm going O/T.

[mohaughn]

For regular DE use, I don't think they are a problem at all. But NASA group4-(TT) has timing/scoring, awards, and sponsorship dollars. I think that pushes people to drive harder, and subsequently, they should have better protection...

Had the driver in the case mentioned above had the proper safety system, he might have survived the incident. I only mentioned what happened because his death was not the result of the car flipping and driver being crushed, but rather, being ejected. If you don't have window nets and properly fitted five/six point harnesses, you can be ejected from an accident even if it doesn't involve the car rolling over.

I agree with your original statement, and will expand it a bit by saying, in a DE environment a roll over is highly unlikely. As long as it is a well run and safe DE. Students shouldn't be pushing that hard in cars without a full safety system.

[cooljess76]

Just to clear things up, the "cage" that EuroJDMHB was initially referring to is a 6 point setup installed on Lazoh aka Harold's car. In Harold's defense, he is the original owner of that car and it started it's life as a show car. That being said, I've ridden in his car and yes, the cage is mounted directly next to your head. I'm 5' 11" and have came very close to hitting my head just climbing in and out of the car.

mohaughn, you're correct about composite seats being designed to flex and not break. However the OP did not mention running an aftermarket or otherwise approved seat until later in the thread. As we both know, the OEM seats were designed to do exactly the opposite and collapse in the event of a rear impact. That being said, I've been in a few accidents including a rollover and while I was at the mercy of the laws of physics, I was able to brace myself to the best of my ability. You basically hold on for your life and ride it out.

So now that we're on the same page, the OP has said that he plans on running a bucket and a 5 point restraint. I'm still unsure as to if he plans on running a 4 point rollbar or a full on cage like he initially stated. I will suggest that whichever setup Bryan decides to go with, make sure that the bar sits far enough behind the B pillar as to not pose a threat of head injury, but not so far back to create a blind spot. And FWIW, you're gonna look like a boy racer being strapped in on your way to school or down to the liquor store, but that's the price you have to pay if you want to be safe. We have no control in preventing someone from rear ending us at a stop light. All it takes is a little bump and the next thing you know you're eating through a straw and wearing diapers. Be safe Bryan, your uncle and I want to keep you around for a while

[cooljess76]

Here's Marcus' setup:
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15190
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14312
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4536

[eurohb]

Originally Posted by cooljess76

Just to clear things up, the "cage" that EuroJDMHB was initially referring to is a 6 point setup installed on Lazoh aka Harold's car. In Harold's defense, he is the original owner of that car and it started it's life as a show car. That being said, I've ridden in his car and yes, the cage is mounted directly next to your head. I'm 5' 11" and have came very close to hitting my head just climbing in and out of the car.

mohaughn, you're correct about composite seats being designed to flex and not break. However the OP did not mention running an aftermarket or otherwise approved seat until later in the thread. As we both know, the OEM seats were designed to do exactly the opposite and collapse in the event of a rear impact. That being said, I've been in a few accidents including a rollover and while I was at the mercy of the laws of physics, I was able to brace myself to the best of my ability. You basically hold on for your life and ride it out.

So now that we're on the same page, the OP has said that he plans on running a bucket and a 5 point restraint. I'm still unsure as to if he plans on running a 4 point rollbar or a full on cage like he initially stated. I will suggest that whichever setup Bryan decides to go with, make sure that the bar sits far enough behind the B pillar as to not pose a threat of head injury, but not so far back to create a blind spot. And FWIW, you're gonna look like a boy racer being strapped in on your way to school or down to the liquor store, but that's the price you have to pay if you want to be safe. We have no control in preventing someone from rear ending us at a stop light. All it takes is a little bump and the next thing you know you're eating through a straw and wearing diapers. Be safe Bryan, your uncle and I want to keep you around for a while

Hey thanks Jesse for clarifying things up with the whole situation, i am going to do the cage set up or safety bar set up like the links u posted so now i just need to find a local shop that can do it or a friend with some good welding skills . I am planning on doing a 4-point bucket seat install like i had in my 5series for bimmerfest that bad boy was fun agh . I know everytime i talk to Harold or Frank they tell me to be safe, thank god i have a good fam