Seibon Carbon Fiber Hoods Defective

[RichieRich]

To all 318ti owners, please review the following email exchange between myself and Seibon Carbon "Customer Support". We all know that the hoods for our cars is the 4-door sedan version. I bought a new Seibon Carbon fiber hood, e36 4-door sedan version, which turned out to be a defective POS. Instead of addressing the issue, the person who responded to me (always refusing to provide a name) did everything in his power to ensure that my problem did not appear related to poor Seibon craftsmanship. The hood was properly installed on my 1995 318ti and the top of it sits a good 5/8" above the fender line (see photo). In the end I let pride and emotion get the better of me and told them I'd found a way to make it work on my own (because they refused to accept responsibility), but the truth of the matter is that I'm stuck with the same defective $600 POS that sits on the car now the same way you see in the photo. So caveat emptor when it comes to buying anything from Seibon my friends....

[RichieRich]

B]From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:07 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: Hood Fitment[/B]

A couple months ago I purchased a Model No. HD9298BMWE364D-OE carbon fiber hood for my BMW. This weekend I finally got around to installing it. There is a problem however. The fit is fine everywhere except the sides. To be clear, the distance between (gap) the edge of the hood and the inner edge of the fenders is fine. The front to back length is fine. The hood opens and shuts beautifully. The problem is that the top of the hood at the sides is not flush with the top of the fenders, i.e., the top of hood is significantly higher, especially towards the front of the car, almost like it is bowed. Pressing down on one or the other front hood corners takes care of the problem on a given side. The front center of the hood is down tight against the area where the BMW kidney grills are (and I have installed brand new hood latch mechanisms), so there's no problem there. It is just the front top sides and to a lesser extent the top in general (back about halfway to the windshield) sticking up above the tops of both fenders. We're talking 3/8 - 1/2". Can you advise me of a solution for this problem? Thanks.

From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:57 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment

Please send us images of the fitment. Thank you.

From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 4:50 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment

See attached images. As I said the hood fits nicely all around excepting the front side tops don't line up with the tops of the fenders. You CAN easily push the hood down at those spots and it fits perfect. I'm speculating that the underside of the hood is hitting the rubber cushion strip that surrounds the engine bay. But I know that it surely isn't proper to install any hood without that rubber cushion strip in place.

From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:41 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment

Hi Rich, Let me ask you one question. Do you have the hood shocks or Dampers on the hood? This is what it looks like. If so you might have already warped the hood. Please note that we do not recommend using the stock dampers or hood shocks. Please advise. Thank you.

From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:07 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment

No, I have not have yet installed any hood shocks/dampers. I just put the hood on the car this past Sunday and what you see in the photos was its fit from the beginning using only the hood hinges at the rear of the hood. The car has not been driven, either. I wanted to wait to see the fitment before considering using any shocks/dampers, given that you do not recommend using shocks/dampers. It really is strange that the thing fits perfectly all around except that it simply sticks up too high over the fender tops towards the front end, and that merely pushing down gently on the high area pushes the hood down to a flush alignment with the top(s) of the fender(s) on each respective side. Is this a common issue with Seibon hoods, and how can it be addressed? Thanks.

From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:10 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment

Please send us the images of the bottom of the hood please. Thank you.


From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 7:54 AM
To: 'info@seiboncarbon.com'
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment

Attached are several images from the bottom of the hood. I'm curious as to where we are going with this, and request to be provided with an actual name of someone to deal with at your company. The bottom line is there are only two options open to remedy the problem with this ill-fitting hood. One would be to install hood pins, which would pull the hood down and keep the front sides of the hood level with the tops of the fenders. The other option would be for me to write off my interest in having a carbon fiber hood altogether and return this defective one. Frankly either option will involve expense to me to which I should not be subject. I am already out approximately $150 extra because you guys originally sent the wrong hood for my car, which I had to return. If hood pins are required to make these hoods fit properly that should be clearly stated before purchase, not simply that hood pins are "recommended" for safety purposes. Now I'm stuck with a hood that I'm into for roughly $680 and it is apparently defective. I don't mind getting hood pins installed, but this is turning into a mighty expensive exercise to just get a simple hood for my car, and I chose Seibon primarily because its reputation for quality in order to avoid these very issues.

From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:53 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: FW: Hood Fitment

Can someone please answer this inquiry or give me the name of someone I can deal with directly? Thank you.

From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:04 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment

Hi Rich, we have reviewed your email and it really does not explain anything. I have read the email on the bottom. When have we ever shipped you a wrong hood? I’m not sure what happened there. but here is a situation where are you located? This is what we might have to do. I might have you go to one of my dealers and have them take a look at it for me. And see what is wrong with your hood or if this is just an installation error which I highly doubt. But if this is a defective hood there is no worries. We will happily send you out a replacement. Please let us know. Thank you.

From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:10 PM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment

I am located in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. My car is a 1995 BMW 318ti (hatchback). Originally I was advised that it used the hood from a 2-door model, and based upon your company's recommendation that is what I purchased. It was much too narrow in width. Turns out that this particular car uses the hood from the 4-door sedan (I verified this thru BMW), so I had to return the 2-door hood version and get the 4-door version, which is correct. But now the fitment issues that you see in the photos attached to the original email. Do you have a dealer in the Pittsburgh area?

From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:20 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment

Oh ok, now I see. I’m not sure what the dealer has told you but please do not that this hood is not made for your vehicle sir. I’m not sure where you got this information. Please note that the body and the frame is different. Please do note that even in our price list and application we have specified that this item does not fit the 318 models. I actually do not have a dealer in your area. The closest to you is either in New York. Please let me know.

From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:24 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment

The BMW serial number for an E36 3-Series 318ti hood is 41618135344. The serial number for an E36 3-Series 328i 4-door Sedan is the same: 41618135344. They are exactly the same and interchangeable. The BMW serial number for an E36 3-Series 2-door Coupe is 41618135346, and it will fit neither the 318ti compact nor any 4-door sedan. Finally, please tell me where in your price list or application you say the item does not fit 318 models, because even if it's there it's wrong. You simply have to make sure you buy the FOUR DOOR version of the hood to fit a 318ti. Thank you.


From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:33 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment

Hi Rich please go ahead and visit our site and look under dealer programs. There is a price list and application list on there. We have specified that all 2dr hoods excludes 318 models. Please note that we are not BMW and will not go with BMW part numbers. We are not planning to buy this hood and make it for the 318 model. Thank you.

From: Rich Laszczynski
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:43 AM
To: info@seiboncarbon.com
Subject: RE: Hood Fitment

Okay, I'll try this once more. Originally I bought the 2dr hood from you. It did not fit so I returned it. Investigation revealed that the 318ti does not use a 2dr hood. Investigation revealed that the 318ti uses the standard 4dr hood. So I bought the 4dr hood from you, which is what I have now. It fits perfectly except that it is defective in being bowed, as the photos I sent clearly show. I do NOT have the 2dr hood. I KNOW the 2dr hood does not work on the 318ti. I DO know that the 318ti takes the standard 4dr hood. You do not have to make any special hood for a 318ti because it uses the standard 4dr hood. I hope this clears up things somewhat. Thank you.

[RichieRich]

B]From: Seibon Carbon [mailto:info@seiboncarbon.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:04 PM
To: Rich Laszczynski
Subject: FW: Hood Fitment[/B]

Ok Rich thank you for the information given to us. But as we said unfortunately we will not specify or add the 318 model onto our application. Please understand that yes you have probably done your research on it but as we still said this hood is not made for the 318 model. Please also understand that this is a aftermarket hood and we are not BMW so we can not go with BMW part numbers to figure out a fitment. We really do not know the reason of why your hood sits like that but we sell these hoods on a regular basis and we never come across issues with the fitment.

[spidertri]

That's really lame. You should find someone with a 328i sedan and install the hood and show them that it doesn't fit on that either. What can they say then?

[cooljess76]

Ask them if they sell a hood for a 318is.

[RichieRich]

If you go to their website and look under "Dealer Programs - Application List" it does say outright that the 2-door hood is NOT for a 318 model. They already know what the deal is, because it does NOT say the same thing beside the 4-door application (regarding the 318). Quite simply they just did not want to stand behind their product, and whoever Mr. Anonymous was that I had to deal with was either dense, knowingly jerking me around, or both. Bottom line: In my case they are rip-off artists. And that's an excellent suggestion spidertri, I may just do that....

[budget76]

To be quite honest, they sound like a bunch of idiots

I'm with Jess, ask them if they make it for a 318IS. OR, find pictures of a different make CF hood for a Sedan mounted on the TI to prove they are idiots. I'll never be buying from them after hearing this

[cracker red]

guy sounds like an idiot, but he probably handles about 50+ emails a day. No excuse though....that customer service is poor.

Seems like a road trip to the dealer is in order. Might want to make friends with them over the phone first, maybe order some stuff from them and then drop by to pick it up. Whatever it takes, but it'd be better than being out $700 for a hood for sure.

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Originally Posted by cooljess76

Ask them if they sell a hood for a 318is.

I have a 318is model cb hood. It is very faded on the clear coat. My Seibon trunk is still looking great no fade and same style and install same time as the hood. Maybe heat from the engine caused this but I'm disappointed

[tiFreak]

a 318is would be a coupe though, you should ask if they have one for a 318i

I'm not sure if it's actually defective to be honest, I think it just got damaged in shipping

[pdxmotorhead]

Tell them its a European 325ti... See if their heads explode...

Dave

[HuGo]

My VIS hood fits perfectly

Did you check the hood latches? This is going to be hard to explain...You can screw them where you can make it longer or shorter(making the coil shrink or expand). Maybe making it a little smaller will pull the hood down and make it fit. IDK if this makes sense?

[RichieRich]

Understand what you mean exactly HuGo. In my case the center of the hood is down as tight as it will go to the kidney grill area --no more adjustment possible (see new photo attached). And it was NOT damaged in shipping -- it is simply bowed like this on BOTH sides. Sucks....

[dave45056]

Rich, they seem to be playing the "we are not BMW" card. But you need to remind them that they sell replacement BMW parts. How can they argue that? Then let them know that the 4 door hood has the same part number for all 4dr and ti models, regardless of engine size. So the fit is exactly the same which is what you are having an issue with. Their exception may be due to under hood temps or something. So as long as you haven't driven it yet, then they should honor their warranty.
If that doesn't work tell them your lawyer/friend recommends getting a refund and will help you for free

[HuGo]

Tell them your going to report them to the department of consumer relations (I think that's what they're called) and you want their customer relations phone number. They'll start sh!tting bricks lol.