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Old 06-27-2010, 11:54 PM   #1
97318TIgurl
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Angry Check engine light -vs- catalytic converter

My '97 318ti failed NJ state emissions because the check engine light DID NOT come on when he started the car. My certified BMW mechanic says the bulb is there and everything looks right.

I take the car back for re-inspection, and find out that i need a catalytic converter! I take it to a second place and they connect the reader and it comes back again for needing a cat. When i questioned my mechanic, he said i don't need a catalytic converter, so now i'm ALL confused.

Could it be a wiring issue that's causing false readings? I took that car to a third place and he wants to do a 3-4 hour diagnostic to see what's going on with the car. Is this usual, and what's the normal cost for this type of diagnostic? My brother who's also a mechanic says a diagnostic should only take an hour or a little over, at best, but not 3-4.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated, as i don't want to go buying a catalytic converter if it's really not the issue. I'm ready to sell this car and just not deal with it from all the confusion.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:25 AM   #2
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Have the codes been scanned?
Even a bad CEL bulb has a failure code.

A 1997 can very well need a new cat. Suppose it could also be an O2 sensor.

Diagnostics on an OBD-II ( +96) doesn't take more than 60 seconds.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:42 AM   #3
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I will ask the mechanic if the codes were scanned. his guy attached the hand held machine (i thought he was scanning then, i guess not) to something near the clutch pedal and said its the cat. didnt mention anything about the check engine light. guy #2 didn't either, just the cat.

I guess my concern is why the CEL won't light up along with the other dashboard lights when the car is started.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:50 AM   #4
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There is a port under the dash. That is where they pulled the codes.
So 2 out of 3 say it's a cat?
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1996 328ti View Post
There is a port under the dash. That is where they pulled the codes.
So 2 out of 3 say it's a cat?
yes, that is where.. and both of them didn't even clip the cover back on, just left it hanging. dirty scoundrels. i had to do it.

yes, 2 out of 3. looks like i'm shopping for a a cat, huh. i found orig oem online for $350 - $370.

i'm still not getting that warm & fuzzy that replacing the cat will solve the check engine light problem. that's why i was hinting around to a wiring issue, perhaps.

Thanks for all your help, by the way.
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:04 AM   #6
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Sounds pretty cheap for a cat.
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?p=274620
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:26 AM   #7
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When you took it to the mechanics did you tell them that you thought it needed a new cat before they did anything to the car? I'd be worried that they are trying to take advantage of your fears and are simply saying, yes it needs a new cat, because you already believe that to be the case.

If you still have the patience call up another shop and tell them as little info as possible, just that it failed emissions and you are not sure why. Pulling the codes from the car takes 5 mins at most. (You can even take it to Autozone and they will get the codes for free.)

If it does turn out to be the cat be aware that 99% of aftermarket cats will still throw a check engine light. Original BMW cats, from the dealer, cost from $1300 - $1600. If you can get a used one from someone on here that will be your best bet.
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:33 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 1996 328ti View Post
Depending on who you buy from, Eastern and Magnaflow are the top two.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidertri View Post
When you took it to the mechanics did you tell them that you thought it needed a new cat before they did anything to the car? I'd be worried that they are trying to take advantage of your fears and are simply saying, yes it needs a new cat, because you already believe that to be the case.

If you still have the patience call up another shop and tell them as little info as possible, just that it failed emissions and you are not sure why. Pulling the codes from the car takes 5 mins at most. (You can even take it to Autozone and they will get the codes for free.)

If it does turn out to be the cat be aware that 99% of aftermarket cats will still throw a check engine light. Original BMW cats, from the dealer, cost from $1300 - $1600. If you can get a used one from someone on here that will be your best bet.
I have two separate issues here:

1) check engine light DID NOT come on when the inspector started up the car - automatic fail.

2) might need need a catalytic converter.

No i didn't mention anything prior to. My car failed emissions because the check engine light DID NOT come on when he started the car. After my primary mechanic went into the cluster and found that the check engine light was actually there and not missing or burnt out, i thought i was good to go so i went for the state re-inspection. They hooked the hand-held machine (scanner, i guess?) under the dash and it came back with needing a cat. i wanted a 2nd opinion and the first thing he did also, was connect the hand held thing and it came back with needing a cat. My question still remains, why would my primary mechanic say that he didn't get any indications of needing a cat?

Maybe i'm confused with the scanning process; isn't that what the two mechanics did to determine i needed a cat? What does Autozone do differently than what the other two mechanics have already done?

If i do in fact need a cat, i'll order brand new oem online.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:05 AM   #10
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Do you know if your primary mechanic scanned for codes? He may or may not have done that as part of investigating the check engine light.

If your primary mechanic did hook up the scanner and not get a cat code, I am thinking the other two mechanics may be misleading you. Were the other two independent shops or the emissions station?

I merely suggested autozone because you can stand next to the guy while he does it and see exactly what codes come up.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidertri View Post
Do you know if your primary mechanic scanned for codes? He may or may not have done that as part of investigating the check engine light.

If your primary mechanic did hook up the scanner and not get a cat code, I am thinking the other two mechanics may be misleading you. Were the other two independent shops or the emissions station?

I merely suggested autozone because you can stand next to the guy while he does it and see exactly what codes come up.
They were both independent shops. I just emailed my mechanic to make sure he did hook up the scanner. Now i understand about going to an Autozone and will do that tomorrow. thank you.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1996 328ti View Post
Have the codes been scanned?
Even a bad CEL bulb has a failure code.

A 1997 can very well need a new cat. Suppose it could also be an O2 sensor.

Diagnostics on an OBD-II ( +96) doesn't take more than 60 seconds.
Taking it to mechanic today after work and he's taking a look at the cat converters, and he said the inspectors would only see a code for the 02 sensors as there is none for the cat.

Thanks.
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:43 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by 97318TIgurl View Post
he said the inspectors would only see a code for the 02 sensors as there is none for the cat.
Your mechanic is wrong. The "probably need a new cat. code" is "P0420 - Catalyst Below Efficiency Threshold."

Having dealt with a bad catalytic converter, I suggest not wasting time with an aftermarket catalytic converter. Midas couldn't put one on that would last for more than a couple of months without triggering the P0420 code, so I bought a used OEM unit from someone here who had done an engine swap.
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:11 PM   #14
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Your mechanic is wrong. The "probably need a new cat. code" is "P0420 - Catalyst Below Efficiency Threshold."
Oh lawd! My head is spinning. lol

So having said that, the O2 sensor is a different code? I'm headed to Autozone at lunchtime, by the way.

Any input on why the check engine light does not light up (along with the rest of the dashboard lights) upon startup? Same mechanic says he found nothing wrong with it.

AND, the meaning of after-market is just now sinking in .. of course i know what it means, but it wasn't registering. Sorry guys, I understand now.

Thanks.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:45 PM   #15
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I've sent Bluebimmer an email.
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