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Old 06-24-2014, 05:12 PM   #16
xxxJohnBoyxxx
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Lol, that would figure. Guess they just put them wherever. I am beginning to believe that the 318ti was a rush to market kind of thing.
No 318's are very well built. There are a few errors in the Bentley manual. Your car is 1996 which makes it the first solid year for BMW's OBD-II. Your DME is a 667 where 97 through 99 are the 668. Your car is built well just some things might be different since it is the first year of OBD-II so issues were corrected in 97.

My car is a 1997 318is so there are some differences every year to improve the product and correct issues.

You never answered my important question is there 12 volts when cranking the car? You might have 12 volts with key on then when the starter engages you loose the coil voltage
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:39 AM   #17
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You never answered my important question is there 12 volts when cranking the car? You might have 12 volts with key on then when the starter engages you loose the coil voltage
I will be trying that tomorrow, now that I am finally free of having to work so much. As soon as I can I will post results. I appreciate the effort that you are putting into someone else's problem. You are a blessing to this forum. Hopefully I will be soon able to get away from the 12 mpg of my 06 ram 2500.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:56 AM   #18
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Finally got to do some more testing and have 12 volts at the coil plug in (terminal 2, 15A) both with the ignition on and when trying to start. So this rules out the relay. I guess now I am focused on the coil, plugs, and wires. I did a resistance test on the wires and they are running 5000 ohms, which is a bit high I am guessing.

One other thing I was wondering though was the plug electrode... I took a closer look and someone in the past has replaced them with Bosch platinums. I am beginning to wonder if the electrode is gone after I cleaned them thoroughly being that it is such a tiny thing. I will stop and buy some NGKs on my way home today if I get a chance.
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Old 07-07-2014, 10:25 PM   #19
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New NGKs did not have any effect. Still no spark. I am wondering if the new crank sensor is already bad. Anyone have any ideas on testing that in the car? Would a bad crank sensor not also show as a code on the Peake reader?
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:37 PM   #20
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bttp
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Old 07-28-2014, 12:18 AM   #21
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Update:

Tested the crank sensor at the DME and it has 603 ohms of resistance. Pulled and then tested it again on the bench and is more of the same...603 ohms. I am inclined to believe that this sensor (a Beck and Arnley) is suspect... any thoughts?
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:02 PM   #22
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Anyone?
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Old 07-31-2014, 06:23 PM   #23
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I would agree your sensor is the issue. Found that most aftermarket brands have issues and Beck Arnley is one of those brands. But that doesn't mean a trip to the $tealer, a lot of companies sell the Bosch sensors and that is the same as OEM. I've used bmaparts.com in Southern CA for these sensors and haven't had a bit of trouble and some of the best prices out there.
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:58 PM   #24
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I would agree your sensor is the issue.
My wife sure is gonna love me buying the same part over again. I shouldn't have cheaped out the first time I guess. I'll give it a try and report back on how it does. Are we sure that it is a Bosch part though?

Thanks
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:02 PM   #25
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BMAparts.com shows on their site either "original" for OEM or brand if aftermarket. You can also call them and talk to Yves, he really knows what he's selling.
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:08 PM   #26
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My wife sure is gonna love me buying the same part over again. I shouldn't have cheaped out the first time I guess. I'll give it a try and report back on how it does. Are we sure that it is a Bosch part though?

Thanks
Crank sensor is most likely good. The fuel pump will not turn on if the until the DME detects crank rotation via the crank sensor. I do believe you stated you have fuel pressure.

I would hate to see you throwing away money at a issue that is not related to the CPS.

I lost track of previous tests I might have posted to check.

Lets start with unloader function. Does the unloader work correctly? Do non essential items turn off while cranking the car. Easy check would be turn on windshield wipers and crank car over. Do the wipers stop working when cranking the car?

If you have some time to run through some easy tests we might be able to identify the issue without spending money on parts that are not the issue...

Also double check every fuse to ensure there is not a blown fuse. FYI there is a 7.5amp fuse that can cause your issue. I spent 2 solid days and over $100 with a no start issue before I decided to check the simple things.

Another thing is fuel injection. Can you remove the injector rail and have someone crank over the motor and verify the injectors are working, you will see the injectors pulse a small amount of fuel as the cylinder for said injector is on intake stroke. Please have water hose or something to put out a fire if the raw fuel is ignited



John S

Last edited by xxxJohnBoyxxx; 07-31-2014 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:21 PM   #27
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Most likely not EWS or unloader since fuel pump is working (unless it is wired out of the DME control).

If fuel pump is wired to DME then EWS is working correct.

My internet guess is crank position sensor at this point, but fuel pump should not prime until the DME detects crank rotation...
John, you were the first one to reply that it probably wasn't EWS, unloader or DME. You said crank position sensor. was probably to blame.

While I can agree with the statement that fuel shouldn't pump if Crank sensor was bad, another issue is you won't get spark if your crankshaft or camshaft position sensors are bad.

As mentioned by OP he has a no spark situation. If he were near me, I'd put the coil to the test by swapping with a known good coil. Thus I'd take mine out and install in his car. But the coil in the 318 isn't cheap and I wouldn't want to buy it just to have the same problem.

But, as I am sure you know, aftermarket sensors (crank and cam) don't play well with BMW DME's and I have personally bought one out of the box and have it be bad. So again, I agree with your original dissertation that it is the crankshaft position sensor and I'll add the statement again that it could be the camshaft position sensor.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:14 PM   #28
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John, you were the first one to reply that it probably wasn't EWS, unloader or DME. You said crank position sensor. was probably to blame.

While I can agree with the statement that fuel shouldn't pump if Crank sensor was bad, another issue is you won't get spark if your crankshaft or camshaft position sensors are bad.

As mentioned by OP he has a no spark situation. If he were near me, I'd put the coil to the test by swapping with a known good coil. Thus I'd take mine out and install in his car. But the coil in the 318 isn't cheap and I wouldn't want to buy it just to have the same problem.

But, as I am sure you know, aftermarket sensors (crank and cam) don't play well with BMW DME's and I have personally bought one out of the box and have it be bad. So again, I agree with your original dissertation that it is the crankshaft position sensor and I'll add the statement again that it could be the camshaft position sensor.
Yes I'm guessing over the internet what the problem is. Fuel pressure and actual injector firing are two different things. I did not read all the posts to refresh myself. I try to help when I can plus I'm old so I don't remember everything I post due to the amount of questions I get and age (Lame excuse but true).

Point being many tests or guesses have been completed since my first post. I was making an attempt to start over fresh from the easy free items to check before starting to throw money at a problem by buying new parts. The crank position sensor being bad twice is very unlikely and is expensive to replace it again and still have a no start issue.

Injector pulse visually will rule out DME fault unless the DME's ignition module is the only item broke.

The last thing I want to do it give bad information on any forum I'm active in. My only goal is to help people and at times I'm wrong with my statements and I learn from my mistakes and other forum members advise.

Well back to the problem, the car won't start . Maybe I should invest some time into reading the complete thread from beginning to end before I start asking for tests to be done or posting to a thread I don't remember all the details on.

Willing to say at this point if OP buys a OEM CPS he will have the same issue, "no start", so if a OEM CPS makes this car start I will eat a large piece of crow pie.

John S
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:15 AM   #29
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Lol, No worries, I'm old too, so I know what you mean.

I completely agree not to throw money at a situation, but my understanding is he has only purchased one CPS and as mentioned, could be bad. He should be able to return it if needed. But, again the tests for the unloader relay is good idea and to confirm if the injectors are actually firing and it is truly a no spark situation.

Again, if there were someone local to him with another 318 he could hopefully make a quick swap to see if it is the coil pack or going backwards into the system and DME if needed. Personally, I highly doubt the DME unless there is something else that has happened that we don't know about. i.e. water in the cabin covering the DME, shorted wires, etc...

As we've both agreed the engine is pretty stout in these cars and there has to be a logical reason as to why this is happening. Possibly even a point in time issue that occurred that we haven't seen or simply missed in the posts.

Hopefully the OP can come back and provide us old guy's some more detail and history. Even to check the plugs right after trying to start to see if they're wet. Then the injector question is answered and it begins to go back to an electrical issue.
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Old 08-01-2014, 01:09 AM   #30
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Hopefully the OP can come back and provide us old guy's some more detail and history.
Well I am back. Just to re-cap, here is what I have:

New crank sensor 600 ohms, but aftermarket Beck

New cam sensor similar situation

No issues visually with the DME (shorts, water intrusion)

New NGK plugs

No loose grounds

EVERY fuse replaced with a new one

All accessories work, but haven't tried John's idea of trying to start with the wipers on (good tip)

I have found the unloader relay and the Hazard relay swapped (one under the dash and the other in the engine compartment). I did swap them back, but that had no effect. My downloaded factory wiring diagram for the 318 compact says the unoader is supposed to be under the dash.

Good coil according to Bentley test requirements.

12V constant at the coil both ignition on and crank.

Solid battery cables both ground and hot.

Tests across coilpack show okay.

Plug wires old but "okay"

Fuel injectors fire off as intended because with the plugs pulled and you turn the engine over you can see atomized fuel from each one of the cylinders on compression stroke. As well as smell fuel heavily. You can also hear the pump prime.

Originally had spark after replacing the old crank sensor, but went straight back into it to replace a gimpy starter. After the starter was replaced I no longer had spark. All my connections there are good too. This was before I discovered the mis-located relays.

Meanwhile I may try your idea about the unloader relay. I do wish I had concrete evidence of where it positively belongs on a 96ti. The manual I have says for early 96 it is under the dash, mine was built in May, so what is early for 96 year?

Thanks for the help. I will keep posting.
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