Misc parts secondary air pump simulator - SAP sim

[gpeterson]

I built some SAP sims for 6cyl cars but they can be used on the 4cyl as well.

They is very high quality, not so "home-built" looking like the DIY version out there.

-includes everything necessary for installation (wire ties, butt connectors)
-electronics sealed in epoxy for protection against moisture/vibration
-high-temperature, color-coded GXL wire cut to correct length and covered in wire loom
-individually tested

Includes zip ties, butt connectors, and detailed instructions. $95 shipped, please PM me.

[cooljess76]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does this simulator do and how does it benefit performance? Wouldn't removing the secondary air pump ruin the catalytic converter? I only ask because the last time I checked, OEM catalytic converters cost over $1800 and aftermarket cats didn't work on these cars. Also, I'm fairly certain that it's illegal in all 50 US states to remove any emissions related equipment regardless of if your state conducts emissions inspections or not since the EPA is a federal agency. Can you please confirm that this is a legal modification? Thanks.

[gpeterson]

Originally Posted by cooljess76

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does this simulator do and how does it benefit performance? Wouldn't removing the secondary air pump ruin the catalytic converter? I only ask because the last time I checked, OEM catalytic converters cost over $1800 and aftermarket cats didn't work on these cars. Also, I'm fairly certain that it's illegal in all 50 US states to remove any emissions related equipment regardless of if your state conducts emissions inspections or not since the EPA is a federal agency. Can you please confirm that this is a legal modification? Thanks.

The SAP simulator lets you remove the SAP system without triggering the check engine light. Most aftermarket headers do not have provisions for the secondary air pump tubes and some people remove the SAP system to cut down on weight/complexity.

I believe you are correct regarding emissions and tell people the SAP Simulator is for off-road use only, not intended for highway vehicles.

[cooljess76]

Originally Posted by gpeterson

The SAP simulator lets you remove the SAP system without triggering the check engine light. Most aftermarket headers do not have provisions for the secondary air pump tubes and some people remove the SAP system to cut down on weight/complexity.

I believe you are correct regarding emissions and tell people the SAP Simulator is for off-road use only, not intended for highway vehicles.

Since the SAP check valve pipe shares the exhaust manifold studs where it attaches to the header, it seems like it would be cheaper/easier to just drill a 5/8" hole on the aftermarket flange and mount the pipe as normal. This would not only eliminate an associated check engine light, but it'll also save your expensive catalytic converter while keeping the car semi-street legal. I'd imagine that the pipe, check valve, rigid hose and SAP only weighs about 5 lbs combined.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, I just think the simulator is a band aid type of fix that will only create larger problems down the road. Even if the SAP was bad, it would be significantly cheaper/easier to replace it than to replace a cat. Then there's the legal/inspection issues, resale issues etc. Most shops wouldn't charge more than 20 bucks to drill a matching hole in the flange if you brought both headers in.

Edit; I could understand removing the SAP system if you're running a top mount turbo in which case there wouldn't be room to mount the pipe and you'd likely be running a high flow aftermarket cat and staring at a CEL anyway.

[wodcutr]

No need to flame a guy that is offering a legitimate product for people that do need it. The 96 m44 did not have a SAP so when I installed a 96 motor into my 98ti it was much cheaper to install a simulator to get rid of my CEL than to buy all the crap needed to legitimately install the SAP. I bought the car without an engine so I did not have any of that stuff.

I really doubt that running a car with a simulator is going to ruin a cat as you suggest. The 96 m44 never even had the pump and the exhaust is the same as the later models. There are also places that do not even do emission testing anyway so the pesky CEL is mainly an annoyance and my 98 runs great with the 96 motor in it using the 98 DME and a simulator!

[cooljess76]

Nobody's flaming anybody. An illegal swap is an illegal swap no matter what state you live in and whether it conducts emissions inspections or not. The EPA is a federal agency and by their standards, removing any smog/emissions related equipment or installing an older engine into a newer car is illegal. Sure, you can probably get away with it, but at the cost of bastardizing your car. Plus when you go to sell it, if the buyer is from a state that does conduct emissions inspections or moves to one that does, he/she can sue you. Do whatever you want to your car. I see it as a ghetto fix and nothing you say will ever change that. There's nothing "legitimate" about molesting a BMW with illegal modifications.

As for '96 318ti's not having SAP's, did you know that BMW had to recall a large percentage of these cars for failed catalytic converters? My car got a new cat and I know many other members cashed in on it before it expired a few years ago. The warranty was mandated by the EPA, and BMW had no choice or say so in the matter. The EPA mandates that all passenger vehicles built after 1995 will have an 8yr/80,000 mile waranty on major emissions related components including the ECU's, catalytic converters, OBD components etc. Since 1996 was the first year of OBDII requirements, BMW learned an expensive lesson on eqipping these cars with SAP's. And before you say it, pre-'96 OBDI models don't trigger CEL's for catalyst inefficiency below threshold because they don't have a post-cat o2 sensor.

[1996 328ti]

Previous owner cut out the SAP in the conversion I bought.
Don't hate me.
I had the code rewritten to bypass the CEL among someother fault codes.
The cats are +250K miles old so I don't think the SAP has anything to do with that.

[wodcutr]

Well I guess I am glad I don't live in Cali because of all the BS pollution crap you guys have. I don't think taking a non running car and putting a good motor into it is an illegal act. In fact I saved a nice car from being crushed because some PO took its motor to install into a z3.

You are entitled to your opinion though Jess. My ti is no bastardized car as you suggest and the fact that there are a lot of people doing m3 motor swaps, strokers, and turbos on their BMW's must mean that you are not in the majority about leaving a car stock. Are all these people that modify their cars doing illegal things? AFAIC the EPA is another government agency that has overstepped its bounds!

[cooljess76]

Originally Posted by wodcutr

Well I guess I am glad I don't live in Cali because of all the BS pollution crap you guys have. I don't think taking a non running car and putting a good motor into it is an illegal act. In fact I saved a nice car from being crushed because some PO took its motor to install into a z3.

You are entitled to your opinion though Jess. My ti is no bastardized car as you suggest and the fact that there are a lot of people doing m3 motor swaps, strokers, and turbos on their BMW's must mean that you are not in the majority about leaving a car stock. Are all these people that modify their cars doing illegal things? AFAIC the EPA is another government agency that has overstepped its bounds!

hahaha, do you think badmouthing a state for it's emissions testing standards is going to bother or affect me in any way?

The law doesn't only apply to California and it's not a matter of opinion. The law is the law. You can choose to break the law, but you certainly can't make up your own. Your car has an illegal swap, and while you might not think it's a big deal, I gaurantee it's going to matter to any potential buyers if/when you go to sell it. An illegal swap is worse than a salvage title or a history of accidents. You could've just as easily did a LEGAL swap, heck I'm doing a perfectly legal S52 swap as many others have done. Like I said though, do what you want with your car, I can't speak for you. I don't think the EPA overstepped any boundries. Their job is to protect the environment. I don't know about you, but I enjoy breathing clean air. If the EPA didn't set laws and standards regarding automobiles, imagine how bad the polution would be. If everyone thought like you do, we'd need to wear gas masks whenever we walked outside. I really don't care what you believe, your opinion of what the law should be, or how you want to justify "saving your car from the crusher". You see, there's REALITY, which is the way things are. And then there's FANTASYland, which is the way you wish things were. When you're ready to join the rest of us here in REALITY, go to epa.gov and educate yourself. I'm not going to argue with you, I DIDN'T MAKE THE LAW, but I do abide by it and in this case I happen to agree with it.

[wodcutr]

Jess I hate to break it to ya but if you are installing a s52 into your ti then you have modified your car and according to your own logic you have broke the law. If those great smog places in Cali knew you had done this to your car they would not pass it off, but because those guys are really clueless and don't know that the hatchback never had a s52 motor in it you can probably get it to pass by also installing all the pollution stuff right along with it.

I also find it funny that you pound your chest and say that you agree with the law yet you are willing to break it because you are better than everyone else and doing it right. Yes I am still glad that I don't live in Cali, along with all of the like minded people that surround you. The thing that bothers me most is that you think that you have all the answers and that we should all get behind you because you are leading the way for all of us. Ya I don't think I want to live in a state that is bankrupt due to its policies and then because of all the overspending you guys want everyone else to bail you out and go right on spending and in fact demand that the rest of the country follow your lead.

It's the way you think and present yourself Jess that I have difficulty with. I also find it interesting that you are willing to post a comment in a thread that you had nothing good to say in, that you injected yourself into the thread just to post your opinion on the subject to inform everyone how you felt about the subject. I will call a spade a spade as that is flaming in every sense of the phrase.

I am not mad at you! I am just pointing out the beam in your eye. I am the one dealing with the real reality here and if you are really a man that means what he says and says what he means then I would expect there to be no more posts from you concerning this matter because you say you are not going to argue with me. Let's see if you can resist the temptation to respond and express your views once again. I am betting one way...can you guess which it is?

[cooljess76]

Originally Posted by wodcutr

Jess I hate to break it to ya but if you are installing a s52 into your ti then you have modified your car and according to your own logic you have broke the law. If those great smog places in Cali knew you had done this to your car they would not pass it off, but because those guys are really clueless and don't know that the hatchback never had a s52 motor in it you can probably get it to pass by also installing all the pollution stuff right along with it.

I also find it funny that you pound your chest and say that you agree with the law yet you are willing to break it because you are better than everyone else and doing it right. Yes I am still glad that I don't live in Cali, along with all of the like minded people that surround you. The thing that bothers me most is that you think that you have all the answers and that we should all get behind you because you are leading the way for all of us. Ya I don't think I want to live in a state that is bankrupt due to its policies and then because of all the overspending you guys want everyone else to bail you out and go right on spending and in fact demand that the rest of the country follow your lead.

It's the way you think and present yourself Jess that I have difficulty with. I also find it interesting that you are willing to post a comment in a thread that you had nothing good to say in, that you injected yourself into the thread just to post your opinion on the subject to inform everyone how you felt about the subject. I will call a spade a spade as that is flaming in every sense of the phrase.

I am not mad at you! I am just pointing out the beam in your eye. I am the one dealing with the real reality here and if you are really a man that means what he says and says what he means then I would expect there to be no more posts from you concerning this matter because you say you are not going to argue with me. Let's see if you can resist the temptation to respond and express your views once again. I am betting one way...can you guess which it is?

You sir need to become educated. The law states that when installing an engine out of another car, it needs to come from of the same year or newer vehicle and it needs to include ALL emissions equipment associated with that engine. Here in California, we have what's called a BAR inspection where a state referee inspects your engine swap and verifies it's legality. They have a book of common legal and illegal modifications. They check VIN numbers, serial numbers. They know the difference between US Spec engines, Japanese spec engines, European spec engines, all the things people try to get away with. My engine came out of a totaled 1998 M3 coupe that I purchased complete. My ti is a 1997. It doesn't matter if I install a V12 in my car, as long as it comes out of the same year or newer vehicle and utilizes all of the emissions equipment that came factory on the donor car, it's perfectly legal. Unlike you, I have done research and understand the law. Therfore, you're the one who is clueless. The law is very clear on what is legal and what is illegal. It makes absolutely no difference if you install a 4cyl, a 6cyl, a V8, a V10, or a V12. The fact that you try to insult me by insulting my state's financial affairs is laughable and shows your childish mentality.

I posted in this thread because PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW when they're doing something illegal. If you did this mod to your car and then failed inspection and/or received a fine for tampering with emissions equipment, you'd be pretty pissed if the seller didn't disclose that before he sold it to you. Arguing with me is pointless. I DIDN'T MAKE THE LAWS! I know some of the laws and I can only point them out to help those like yourself who don't. Don't rely on me to explain everything because I don't know everything. I only know what I learned from researching my swap. Visit www.epa.gov and www.dmv.utah.gov and EDUCATE YOURSELF. It's very obvious that you don't know what you're talking about and you're getting angry at me for exposing it. So before you come back here with a personal attack or some radical assumption about the state of California's laws or financial affairs, take a few moments to research things and actually learn about it before you further prove your ignorance on the subject.

This thread was about a SAP simulator and I merely pointed out it's function and legality. You interjected your swap, my swap, your opinion on how the EPA overstepped it's boundries, what you THINK the law is, California going bankrupt and it's spending policies, and all kinds of other nonsense. I'll say this one more time, THIS IS NOT A MATTER OF OPINION, IT'S NOT MY OPINION, IT'S THE LAW. I DIDN'T WRITE THE LAW, I LEARNED IT, JUST AS YOU SHOULD DO

[wodcutr]

You are obviously smarter than I am Jess and much more educated about such things. Thanks for taking the time to explain this all to me. I am sure johnboy will now be taking the turbo off his car as well as his simulator due to the illegality of it all. As for me, I will now have to worry every time I pass by a cop that he will pull me over and inspect my car for a CEL or the simulator...how will I ever get any sleep.

[cooljess76]

Originally Posted by wodcutr

You are obviously smarter than I am Jess and much more educated about such things. Thanks for taking the time to explain this all to me. I am sure johnboy will now be taking the turbo off his car as well as his simulator due to the illegality of it all. As for me, I will now have to worry every time I pass by a cop that he will pull me over and inspect my car for a CEL or the simulator...how will I ever get any sleep.

I wouldn't say that I'm smarter. But after reading your posts, it's pretty clear who the mature person is.

[1996 328ti]

I think we'll call it quits on this one.