» Site Navigation | | » Recent Threads | | | | | | | | | | 09-08-2010, 04:30 AM | #1 | Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 50 | M44 Tear Down--how tight should those cylinder head bolts feel? Hello everyone. I bought a 1996 318ti, and it overheated on the way home. As is. I've been reading a ton both here and at Pelican (and the crappy Haynes manual) and I've torn down the M44. The oil pan produced 5.5 quarts of runny butterscotch syrup, so I strongly suspected the head gasket. Also, it appears that someone had just been in the motor, the head bolts did not have captive washers, and there was a valve cover bolt missing-(among other oddities I noted under the hood). Most alarming of all was how easy it was to bust the head bolts loose. So, here's my question for those who have removed a BMW cylinder head. . . Shouldn't these bolts be pretty darn tight? I remember taking the heads of a Chevy 350, and it took several grunts to get them loose. Thanks for your input. . . And one more question for you all. . . What's the bullet proof head gasket to buy? I'm not trying to turn it into a racer, but it came with a couple things: a Borla muffler and a cold air intake are the only things changed that I can see. Last edited by jwinlaporte; 09-08-2010 at 04:35 AM. | | | 09-08-2010, 04:48 AM | #2 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: asdfasdf Posts: 10,002 | I've never gone into my engine so I can't help you, but you'll want to figure out why the car overheated. there's two plastic fitting notorious for breaking, one's under the manifold and one's on the back of the head, make sure they're not broken. make sure the thermostat's not stuck closed and that nothing else in the system is broken. if all looks good it's likely the PO did some work on the cooling system and never bled it correctly, which is fairly complicated on these cars. here's an excellent write-up on bleeding the cooling system http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=27983 good luck, hopefully you were lucky enough to just blow the head gasket, but if you drove it overheating for an extended period of time, you may have warped the head | | | 09-08-2010, 05:04 AM | #3 | Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 50 | What I've found on the tear down. . . I have found the coolant pipe that attaches to the rear of the head appears to be a little melted. The one on the left side of the block, under the intake, looks clean and dry. There was definitely no T-stat in the housing. Also, planning to replace all coolant hoses and coolant pump. Radiator appears new, condenser in front of it is bent and there's minor damage to the front end. This is what I think happened. . . previous owner overheated it, replaced the head gasket without having the head checked out, put it back together--sloppily, left some air in the cooling system (everybody here says, hard to bleed, can't just fill 'er up and go). I bought the car on a Wednesday, had it delivered to my uncle's house--a 35 mile drive by a stranger that didn't care, and when I drove it home Friday night (only about 10 miles), it had no dash lights (any thoughts on that?) and I never saw the temp gauge redline. The engine lost power, died while turning off the highway and never restarted till after dumping the oil pan--5.5 quarts, and keeping the radiator cap loose and bleeder screw open on rad. From the first loss of power to the engine dying--about 1/2 mile. Upon removing the head, cylinder 3 was full of water. Last edited by jwinlaporte; 09-08-2010 at 09:45 PM. Reason: add a little clarification | | | 09-08-2010, 08:14 AM | #4 | Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 1,587 | The head bolts should be very tight, just like most other cars. As for a brand, I've heard bad things about Victor Reintz head gaskets over on bimmerforums. My 97 318ti had a Victor Reintz headgasket installed in 2007 and it lasted under three years. I just replaced It with a genuine BMW headgasket which is made by Goetz. I hear those are very good. Sound like the last guy who fixed yours was just a hack? And I've never found these engine hard to bleed coolant. It just can't be done at idle, that never seems to work. Hold the revs at about 2,500 with the bleed screw off and wait until the bubbles stop coming out. Last edited by CirrusSR22; 09-08-2010 at 08:19 AM. | | | 09-08-2010, 12:09 PM | #5 | Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 770 | | | | 09-08-2010, 01:27 PM | #6 | Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 50 | I'm taking the head into the shop today. It should come back ready to bolt on, right? I'm more of an r and r type guy--off with the bad, on with the good. Rebuilding the head is way over my head and my tools. I think. On the head gasket. . . I've got two senior members here so far that disagree about the brand of head gasket. What to do, what to do. . .I know I'll have to wait and if the head gets shaved, then I'll need a thicker gasket--what about Cometic? Anybody ever put one of those in their M44 engine? | | | 09-08-2010, 03:24 PM | #7 | Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland Or Posts: 2,666 | I have to second the bleeding thing, must be a M44 thing cause my M42 its a piece of cake. Of course I use water wetter and that solves most of the air entrapment issues.... Don't use a $12.00 torque wrench on them its not a place to save money... Dave __________________ Dave - PDX 1995 318ti - Active Black and Tan. 2005 330xi - Mtech 1 - 6spd - Orient Blue/Black | | | 09-08-2010, 04:04 PM | #8 | Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 50 | Degree Torque Wrench I've seen a few pictures, but I've never used one. How does a degree torque wrench work? Like it sounds? 2nd and 3rd torques are 90 degrees. Does this mean from 1 to 3 oclock--90 degrees? Or should I just shut up and read the dial dummy? I have a 1/2 drive dial torque wrench and a 3/8 drive clicker type for the initial torque, but I'll have to find a degree wrench somewhere. | | | 09-08-2010, 04:08 PM | #9 | Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Merritt Island, FL Posts: 351 | Quote: Originally Posted by jwinlaporte I'm taking the head into the shop today. It should come back ready to bolt on, right? I'm more of an r and r type guy--off with the bad, on with the good. Rebuilding the head is way over my head and my tools. I think. On the head gasket. . . I've got two senior members here so far that disagree about the brand of head gasket. What to do, what to do. . .I know I'll have to wait and if the head gets shaved, then I'll need a thicker gasket--what about Cometic? Anybody ever put one of those in their M44 engine? | There is an allowance for re-surfacing the head depending on manufacturing tolerances. It depends on how warped the head was and how much they had to machine off to make it flat. You may not need to go with a thicker head gasket, it just depends. If they had to machine off a lot of material then it is possible that the valves may interfere with the pistons. Also the camshaft timing is affected since the distance from the camshaft to crank shaft sprockets changes (shortens). This may further cause interference problems between the valves and the pistons during engine operation since the timing will be lagging by some amount based on how much material was removed. So, talk to the the machine shop and see what they have to say. I have used many Victor Reintz gaskets with no problem. At least spend $70 and buy a Craftsman torque wrench, don't use crap torque wrenches for critical engine hardware. __________________ Alpine Weiß 1995 318ti M50tu mostly stock, chip'd 413, AFE Intake. e36 M3 front brakes, e30 M3 rear calipers. e28 3.25 LSD + e30 axles. Custom stainless Magnaflow 2 in 1 out muffler. R.I.P schwartz 1990 325is | | | 09-08-2010, 04:12 PM | #10 | Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 50 | Thanks Thanks for the advice. I'll have to wait and see. My 1/2 drive dial is a Craftsman, but it's a little old. Hmm. | | | 09-08-2010, 06:06 PM | #11 | Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gulfport, Florida Posts: 3,208 | EDIT ~ First welcome to the board Stock head bolts come off easy with any bar that is 1 foot or longer, feels like they were not even tightened. Milling the head will not be a issue with cam timing if you degree the cams with a dail indicator instead of using the cam lock tool. My opinon is stick with a BMW head gasket only becasue I put 15psi of boost to one and had 173K on that motor before I traded it as a core and it was in good condition and ran great when traded as a core. Double check with your machine shop on your head. I've got them back with valves stuck from being assembled wet, all kinds of crap when I was younger and didn't know what I was doing (still don't know what I'm doing 1/4 the time). Ask them if it's ready to install with no other wrok needed to be sure... Good luck and ask if you don't know, it's a lot cheeper to ask then to blow one up with lots of good parts in it. I've done this on a few motors Last edited by xxxJohnBoyxxx; 09-08-2010 at 06:12 PM. | | | 09-08-2010, 06:29 PM | #12 | Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: MD/PA/DC Posts: 1,629 | All of the head bolts on mine came out with nothing more than a socket and extension. They were all loose. And if you didn't already know, you have to replace the head bolts. As for head gasket, if it overheats it's gonna blow the gasket. Mainly because the head warps. Doesn't matter what brand of gasket is there. I don't know what the big deal with bleeding the system is either. I've never had any problem with it. __________________ No more ti. | | | 09-10-2010, 05:20 PM | #13 | Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Orlando Florida Posts: 4 | Quote: Originally Posted by jwinlaporte Hello everyone. I bought a 1996 318ti, and it overheated on the way home. As is. I've been reading a ton both here and at Pelican (and the crappy Haynes manual) and I've torn down the M44. The oil pan produced 5.5 quarts of runny butterscotch syrup, so I strongly suspected the head gasket. Also, it appears that someone had just been in the motor, the head bolts did not have captive washers, and there was a valve cover bolt missing-(among other oddities I noted under the hood). Most alarming of all was how easy it was to bust the head bolts loose. So, here's my question for those who have removed a BMW cylinder head. . . Shouldn't these bolts be pretty darn tight? I remember taking the heads of a Chevy 350, and it took several grunts to get them loose. Thanks for your input. . . And one more question for you all. . . What's the bullet proof head gasket to buy? I'm not trying to turn it into a racer, but it came with a couple things: a Borla muffler and a cold air intake are the only things changed that I can see. | I just did my head gasket too and the bolts should be in three stages. 1) 22 ft lbs. 2) 90 degree turn. 3) an additional 90 degrees turn. This is all per the Bentley book. I also have some pictures that I'm posting my gallery and still have some to add. Good luck with your project. | | | 09-14-2010, 03:41 AM | #14 | Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: detroit Posts: 157 | check the cylinder head!!! I have fixed a bunch of these and they were all crack. One of them the water pump impelar came off the shaft so the pump in turn didnt pump any water. If you had the milkshake oil then you really need to be thinking about your main and rod bearings. With water in the oil, the oil loose its sheer properties and wipes all the bearing (metal on metal) not good!! | | | 09-16-2010, 03:00 AM | #15 | Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 50 | Update: (and a few questions, too) Thanks for the welcome. Encouragement is nice too, I'm about 3K in now, more to go, and I drove it about 10 miles before it broke down, but I became attached. With the car's age, the headgasket job has turned into a control arms, struts, belts, pulleys, coolant pump, triple oil change job. whew. The machine shop called; the head will require the thicker head gasket...question 1 What's the best +.3 gasket to get? I'm not a racer but in Northwest Indiana, should I consider an MLS type gasket? Let me know what you think. (A note on parts here--can anyone find a gasket set that includes the oversize gasket? I'm looking at having to buy two head gaskets, or purchase each new seal and gasket separately.) The machine shop guy is ready to put it back together but he recommends new valve springs due to overheating--says springs don't like to get hot--seems logical and reasonable to me. 2nd big question. . .ah. nevermind--I paid 9.50 each for a set. What exactly are the OEM dimensions of the valve springs? I do not wish to pay 10 bucks a piece for them. I have seals on the way and a whole bunch of other stuff too. I'll have the struts changed out after I collect all the parts, reinstall them, change the control arms and bushings, coolant pump, reinstall the head and button it all up in 3 weeks, I hope. . . Oh yeah...the windows are screwed up too. The driver's door has no plastic and the door panel was actually screwed on with self tapping sheet metal screws! Last question... where can I find a set of plastic door panel anchors? There are only two left--not enough to hold the panel to the door. So, 1. What's the best headgasket? Leaning toward BMW--just give it what it wants, I suppose. 2. OEM valve spring dimensions? Nevermind, I just bought the darn things. 3. Door panel holder thingies? Still could use some help with this one. . . Thanks. Last edited by jwinlaporte; 09-17-2010 at 05:52 PM. | | | | | Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode | Posting Rules | You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | |