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Old 09-11-2012, 03:58 AM   #1
spidertri
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Default Water Pump Quality

Just wanted to share my latest cooling system headache with everyone in case it helps someone out.

Background

3 years/30,000miles ago I installed a Graf water pump with cast metal impeller. I didn't think much of it at the time because metal impeller was supposed to = good.

Lately, I had spots of coolant slung all over the front of my engine bay. Turns out that coolant was leaking past the bearing on the Graf and hitting the pulley which sprayed it everywhere. It was also apparent that the bearing was shot because the shaft had a significant amount of play in it.

Tech

From what I have read, BMW had 3 versions of the water pump. First was a plastic impeller (this caused all the original horror stories), second was a stamped/welded metal impeller (metal impeller was too heavy/costly and wore out bearings), and the latest is the composite impeller (OE manufacturer is Saleri). The cast metal impeller was never an OE option.

Results

I replaced the water pump with a Saleri unit from pelican which has a composite impeller. This is the OE BMW water pump without the OE BMW price. The Saleri weighs 0.5lb less than the Graf, which seemed to be due to the lighter impeller. Hopefully, this will help extend the bearing life.

The composite impeller also has much more uniform ports which can only help to improve the flow characteristics.

I've been watching my water temps since doing this and the engine is running a consistent 6F cooler. Also, my temp needle used to be a hair to the right of middle since I put the Graf in. Once I put the saleri unit in, back to dead center.

There are quite a few reviews and stories popping up on Pelican Parts and bimmerforums about people having issues with Graf pumps. I can only encourage you to research it yourself and make an educated decision before buying.


From left to right: OE composite, Gebu/Graf cast metal, OE stamped
Check out the terrible port sizes on the cast.


Photo borrowed from Joemamaman on bf.c (his thread is below)


Cliffs:
Graf = Bad, Heavy, poor flow, chinese bearing?
Saleri OE = Good, better bearing, good flow


Related Threads
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1486795
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1633054
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:50 AM   #2
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My original pump had 163,000 mi on it when I changed it out, hadn't failed, just a little play in the shaft. I replaced it with one similar to that pictured in the middle of the photo, the lower priced one from Bavarian Autosport. At 35,000 mi, the shaft already has play in it. Wasn't worth the savings.

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Old 09-11-2012, 07:59 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul somlo View Post
My original pump had 163,000 mi on it when I changed it out, hadn't failed, just a little play in the shaft. I replaced it with one similar to that pictured in the middle of the photo, the lower priced one from Bavarian Autosport. At 35,000 mi, the shaft already has play in it. Wasn't worth the savings.

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DUUUUUUUUUUDE!!!
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:38 AM   #4
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OK, I'll try to post more often. See, I've already doubled my posts!
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:23 PM   #5
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I forgot to mention. I was helping my Dad this past weekend do an oil change, spark plugs, and belts on his 530i (M54). When we got the belt off and wiggled the water pump it had a good deal of play in it, guess what brand...Graf. We did his whole cooling system a couple years ago and replaced everything, should have gone OE.

Water pumps should last at least 100k miles.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:03 PM   #6
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I installed a graf about 5 years ago and it has started to leak also seems to have bad bearings. I have a new Saleri OE on the way from Pelican parts that should fix the leak.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:52 PM   #7
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I just had the second water neck bust a nipple on me. I checked the water pump since the belt was getting changed anyway and I have a bit of play too. Trying to get the pump out right now , but not having much luck. It seems stuck. It wiggles back and forth and I think theres no more bolts (only three right?). Off to searching on how to get the stubborn bitch out.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:07 PM   #8
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4 Bolts on the water pump. 3 are small M6 and one is larger, M8 I think.

I've heard if you can pull it out enough to get a gap it's possible to spray WD40 on the o ring and it will pop right out.

My Graf pump practically fell out once I took the bolts out. O ring didn't look good at all.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by signature sound View Post
I just had the second water neck bust a nipple on me. I checked the water pump since the belt was getting changed anyway and I have a bit of play too. Trying to get the pump out right now , but not having much luck. It seems stuck. It wiggles back and forth and I think theres no more bolts (only three right?). Off to searching on how to get the stubborn bitch out.
I use a big ass pair of channel lock pliers. Grip the pump housing, rotate it side to side a few times, then while continuing to rotate side to side, I gradually pull forward.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:08 AM   #10
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There are two smaller tapped holes in the water pump casting, 180 degrees apart. Take two of the short bolts that held the water pump on and thread them into these tapped holes and draw them up evenly to press the water pump off.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:15 AM   #11
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after I replied here, I went back out and used the jack holes. Thanks for the responses guys. The pump came out pretty easy after that. I found that I have the cast impeller so I should be good until I can order the parts. Thanks again for the help!
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:05 PM   #12
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Water pump question. Figured I would add to an old thread rather then starting a new one.

Replaced the original water pump with a graf pump when I got the car a year ago. After a few thousand miles I was getting terrible squeaking, mostly when cold. I found some play in the water pump.

I replaced with a Saleri. All is well and quite. Untill a few weeks ago. I am getting the squeaking again.

Water pump has play in it again.

Any other reason my water pump bearing would last less than 20,000 miles?

I assume there should be no play in the bearing when new. I don't remember any when I installed it.

I will replace it, but am getting tired of doing this.

What do you think?

Thanks!
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:49 AM   #13
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Belt too tight?
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:33 AM   #14
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I think all the adjustment is handled by the automatic tentioner. I dont know of a way too loosen or tighten the belt. Unless I have that wrong
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Old 04-27-2013, 04:42 AM   #15
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Hmm, that's too bad to hear. I have only put 10k miles on my saleri and no issues at all so far.

Are you using 50/50 bmw coolant and water? Is the belt the correct length? Any imperfections in the water pump pulley that could make it significantly out of balance?
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