RAJ-Built custom WideBody 318ti

[Constant]

FYI,

So I had a free minute and I ended up doing the calculations based on what you said you have for fuel injectors, 19lb/hr units. The calculation estimates the level of hp the injectors are physically capable of supporting:

hp = (19lb/hr * 4 injectors * 0.8 duty cycle) / 0.5 BSFC = 121.6hp.
This is using 80% duty cycle, since injectors usually max out at 80%.
BSFC is typically 0.5 in a 4-valve/cyl BMW engine.

Even if I put 100% duty cycle (won't happen) for your so-called "match-flowed injectors", that yields:
(19lb/hr * 4 injectors * 1.0 duty cycle) / 0.5 BSFC = 152hp.

Even if I put 0.386 BSFC, which is ungodly efficient and a published number achieved by renowned tuner Pat Musi on a small-block Chevy 383ci, you get:
(19lb/hr * 4 injectors * 1.0 duty cycle) / 0.386 BSFC = 196.9hp.

Which is pretty close to your estimates...if you're saying you're on par with Pat Musi and your injectors operate at 100% duty. In addition, all these hp numbers are at the crankshaft, not rear wheel hp. So knock off another 17% or so drivetrain loss and you get 162.7hp at the rear wheels. Quite a far cry from 200rwhp...

If you can match these numbers, you better quit your day job and start up a Engine Tuning business.

Try Injector Sizing Yourself

Constant

[RAJ]

inertial mass does rob HP from the motor- this is why we loose power by the time it gets to the rear wheel. John Roberts BMW in Dallas Dynoed the car in 2000- Parts guy name was Kerry who was familar with my car.

If your Engineer by by Profeession, then why are you on a TI board? why would you own a TI.. why not an M3, M5, so on?

I said plainly, " I have nothing to prove"... the Car has already been dynoed.

I met an Asian guy about 2yrs ago- he had a silver M3 2 door -both of us had 1 passenger- we rolled down I30- from a 65mph roll on, I stayed right with him until the rev limiter kicked in.. And I have a witness. This was all before I shed the interior and when my car just had 30k on the clock and not using a quart of oil a week through the valve guides.

Well, I am a certified Ducati Tech since 1996- lightening valve train weight does have HP gains, as does the Flywheel, as does the rods, crank, etc. I used to dyno Bikes daily, before and after mods- Every dyno produces different results- even 2 in the same room will vary from one another.


An R32 VW i'd say is comprable to the ti- the ti weight just a little less while the R32 produces a 40-50 more- I have driven an R32, If my car is already rolling, a stock R32 would not be a all out victory for it.. if at all. I believe a SVT Focus to be a more challenging argument than an M3 definately... more equal perhaps to this equation. 1998 M3's are heavy & really somewhat boring in the way of power if stock- that's my opinion, I am more impressed with their looks rather than performance- cool car still, just not so cool for the price new.

Your saying a Supersprint exhaust gave you how much? I had one on my car -IT was real impressive with its 2 1/4" pipe and 80lbs of weight. It felt like cast iron- Still have it laying around- bought it used and bolted it up just for comparison reasons. IT is definately not worth the money. -Maybe if it is a stainless system and doesn't weigh a load.

IF Less FORCE is required to put it into motion, Then by Physics, We have more HP(FORCE) available to put it into motion. So if a Flywheel weights less, then it ROBS less. And instead of arguing with me- Why dont you argue with all the F1 Techs, maybe some World Superbike team Techs.. go find MR. Hines of Vance & Hines (race AMA and NHRA Drag bikes, or maybe NASA or Lockehead. Better yet, Dig up Einstein and argue with him to rewrite the laws of Physics. Call Crane Cams, ask them what the gain is by using their aluminum rockers (i am not using them by the way)- I can't imagine why so many would use aluminum rockers if it does nothing... Or Why suzuki decided to machine their camshafts hollow on the GSXR and Hyabusa. And I can't figure why H-beam Rods are the sh** paired up with a knife-edged crankshaft. And Gee Wiz, why do you think the European Ti make Significantly more HP stock- Could it be that BMW down tuned the ECU to meet the Smog Emissions of The USA?

[RAJ]

Funny on the injector sizing- according to your calculations, the 2 Dyno-Proven 400 HP Mustangs( one Supercharged and one naturally aspirated) I have sitting in my shop shouldn't even run.

[TiPerformance]

The problem with shaving mass off of the stock flywheel is making sure that it is balanced, seems alot easier to go with a light weight aluminum flywheel. However gains from a flywheel are not that much.

You refabbed the entire exhaust system, however from what I have seen is that anything from the cat back doesn't really produce any better numbers than stock, maybe 1-2 HP. I have even read of a guy who put a equal legnth header on his car with a few other mods, and the header didn't add a thing. Alll in all our header flows pretty well, it is the head that is the restrictive part.

As for lightening the valve train what did you do, because no one makes after market rockers, valves are $500+ for ferra valves, so what did you do to "lighten the valve train"?

[maurolin]

Flywheel does not give you HP; It's purpose is to allow the car to rev up faster as the engine has to move less mass to acheive a red line.
BMW's by nature are DOGS on the low end. a Flywheel will make that better, and one Vanos Kicks in... DAMN... better watch those RPM's, cause they are Snappy!.

That and a heavy turbo clutch.

[Constant]

Originally Posted by RAJ

If your Engineer by by Profeession, then why are you on a TI board? why would you own a TI.. why not an M3, M5, so on?

Although I have no idea what cars have to do with being an engineer, I actually do own a '97 M3 in addition to my '96 318ti. The M3 happens to be Dinan supercharged as well. Some engineers I work with drive Saturns and Toyota Corollas. They must not be "real" engineers, huh?

Originally Posted by RAJ

I said plainly, " I have nothing to prove"... the Car has already been dynoed.

Then what was the output? You said "approximately 200HP". Why approximate when you dyno'd it? Let's see that dyno sheet! My M3 has EXACTLY 292.3rwhp, 250.5ft-lbs from the last dyno. No "approximately" here:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=156465 Scroll down to post #21.

Originally Posted by RAJ

he had a silver M3 2 door -both of us had 1 passenger- we rolled down I30- from a 65mph roll on, I stayed right with him until the rev limiter kicked in

Are you sure he even knew you were trying to keep up or just toying with you?

Originally Posted by RAJ

lightening valve train weight does have HP gains, as does the Flywheel, as does the rods, crank, etc.

Sure, I don't refute that lightening VALVETRAIN gains hp, but not DRIVETRAIN, which is what you originally referred to. And the flywheel is definetely a drivetrain mod. Which will give you SQUAT on a dyno. Think of this: if you physically took the engine out of your 318ti and put it on an engine dyno, WTF would a flywheel do? It's not even attached to the engine dyno. Pray tell, how does the flywheel still bolted in your car increase the HP of a something strapped to an engine dyno?

Originally Posted by RAJ

Your saying a Supersprint exhaust gave you how much?

I didn't say it gave me anything. I'm saying by your ricer math, I'll allow you to take 5hp credit for it. I'm asking to see +35rwhp difference (not 40 like you said) between your car and the 318ti I bring with the Supersprint. Hence, I'm even making it easier for you.

Originally Posted by RAJ

IF Less FORCE is required to put it into motion, Then by Physics, We have more HP(FORCE) available to put it into motion. So if a Flywheel weights less, then it ROBS less.

I said it once and I'll say it again, in caps this time: FASTER DOES NOT EQUAL MORE HORSEPOWER. Refer to my Geo Metro comparison above. And you need to brush up on your physics. F=ma which is FORCE = mass x accel. HP is not force, unlike what you said. Horsepower is a measurement of energy, FORCE x VELOCITY. The fact that you don't understand this validates everything I've said.

So what do you say about meeting up at Christmas? If you're so confident, you might as well get a free dyno out of it. I'm sure everyone here also could benefit from your "mods" to get 200HP out of their 318ti's too.

I'll even buy you dinner at any restaurant if you get +35rwhp more, your choice. III Forks Steakhouse, the French Room at the Adolphus Hotel, the Mansion at Turtle Creek, you name it.

Constant

[RAJ]

I figure if your an Engineer.. you get paid rather well most often - that is all, no conetation like a poor Engineer. Hell, most people are underpaid anyways.
Go to John roberts and get the Dyno sheet- they had it and did it- I didn't pay for the run-- My car was in for warranty work back then (2000) and they were curious, so they did it for their own kicks. At the same time back then there was girl (about 25) who had a new m5 making over 500hp - supercharged, nitrous, Ecu tweaks- no internal mods.

The guy had his M3 floored.. and we were side by side- We Stopped and laughed about it and i showed him there wasn't nitrous or anything.

By your reasoning on the flywheel, then what would be the gain on a drag car for not running a belt driven water pump.. or power steering on a road race car.. and why then does air consition rob hp- So, if it is on the front of the motor, does that make it also a "drivetrain" part? No. And why would reducing weight, mass, or drag on the rear of the engine be any different that the front? Oh, Because it Isn't any different.
Oh.. b/c i didn't say "force x velocity" must mean... NOT A GOD DAMN THING and IT validates what exactly.. and Just cause you are an Engineer- What does that prove? While Engineers figure out many cool items, Engineers also designed the failed Lense on the Hubble @ how many Billions of U.S. Dollars (I think I could of gotten the math on that right), the Pinto that blows up, the Gas tanks outside the frame on Chevy trucks for over 10 yrs in the 70's and 80's that also blew up on people(Genius population control)... and the Air Bag which makes no sense in reality since if 2 cars hit head on at 60mph, then we understand it to be the same as hitting a wall at 120mph- Correct.. your Mass and Velocity .. and the Rude Penalties of Motion when put to an Abrubt Stop? Then, as I have read (since i can't radar an airbag in action) an airbag has a VELOCITY of 200mph... so if i hit this car head on and we are both traveling 60mph, then this would equivalate to 120+ 200 for the guy with the airbag? IS this Correct? Engineers seem to "Engineer" some great BS .. and the Big-wig one Lobby it into the GOV, DOT, EPA, etc. Being a "Engineer" means nothing to me. Thats like Saying "DOCTOR".. there are good ones and bad ones. There's American made tools.. and there's chinese tools- Tools have a scale of quality like anything else.

You'll probably claim the Tesla Engine (turbo) is a lie also and never worked(s).

If your an engineer, then you figure out lightening valvetrain- never said it gave me 40 hp either... and if you read, I didn't claim to have used Crane Cams rockers. Hope your engineering skills are not equal to your reading skills... Since that would be an unjustified profit of M3 material.

The Mansion is rediculous and you must get paid rather well like suspected if you hang out in Turtle Creek and I don't need your dinner- Thanks. I will meet you if my lovely German honda doesn't blow up by then. Oh, and when they told me it made "an almost 200hp" that was over 40,000 miles ago - As an Engineer, you Should also know then my car is a bit out of its prime and oil going by the valve guides doesn't produce the best HP these days.

One thing I realize we do agree on- The stock header is sufficient.

[TiPerformance]

SOOOOO......what did you do to lighten the valve train them????

Also you saying that your car is out of it's prime "because of oil going by the valve guides" is the car blowing blue smoke? If not then it isn't using that much if not any more than when it was 40,000 ago, and that shouldn't affect your 200HP claim by much if any.

[Constant]

I can't respond to the previous post because someone said my reading skills aren't that great. LOL.

So does that mean we're not meeting up to dyno cars?

By the way, not sure how John Roberts BMW dyno'd your car since THEY DON'T HAVE A DYNO. You can't pass that one off on me. My 318ti was bought and serviced there while in DFW.

Oh well. I'm sure the dyno would have broken your heart anyway...

Constant

[Constant]

Originally Posted by TiPerformance

is the car blowing blue smoke?

It's blowing BS, but that BS doesn't stand for Blue Smoke.

Constant

[TiPerformance]

Here are some good articles for you to read.
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/march03/ask_sarah/
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/e36/per...l_effects.html

So now that we have determined that a lightened flywheel doesn't produce any HP gains, you are saying you got 200 HP from where? That 200HP would be Wheel HP if it was Dynoed, so we are looking at about a 80 Wheel HP gain over stock. So you are claiming you got this power from.

1. Lightened valve train Which you have yet to say what this consisted of

2. A lightened flywheel which we have eatablished does not increase HP

3. An Full Custom reworked exhaust system

4. A computer reflash, which in a PM earlier I was told it was a Dinan stage 3 reflash


If I am missing something Please let me know

[RAJ]

You determined lightened Flywheel doesn't gain. As I said, if removing drag on the front of the engine has HP gains- hence electric water pumps and power pulleys, then why would the flywheel be any different- Not Turning as much load... Brain Boy.

I drilled and shaved the Valve train.. With an Engineer friends Lathe who lives down the street from me.

and at the time there was a Dyno @ Street Leathal.. i think it was called. There are only a Few dozen Dyno's in dallas to choose from. Oh gee, if we don't have a dyno.. does that mean it can't be dynoed? Uh... Whatever.

Well, I habve to put a Quart in a Week, And lets see, I have a Supercharged Roush With 2 broken pistons (confirmed by me, FORD, and Roush) .. and it doesn't realease Blue smoke. Riddle me that Constant Who.. What? Engineer of What?

[RAJ]

excuse me- I meant a Friend's mill- he also has a lathe.

[TiPerformance]

Being man enough to say "maybe my claims are off" would be a good thing to do right now. Or If you are still certain that you are right and your car makes close to 200HP then dyno the car and Post the dyno sheet.

Saying "I have nothing to prove" is a lame ass excuse and if you are so confident why not take the man up on his challenge???? I mean all you have to do is beat his car by 35HP, which is nothing since your car is putting down near 200HP and he is probably around 125 I mean you have the HP to double his 35 HP challange, and he will even buy you dinner any pay for your dyno and come to you, so the $ is not an excuse.

Most performance oriented people love to know the actual numbers their car is putting down.

[Constant]

Originally Posted by bmw///m3///

RAJ can claim whatever horsepower he wants.

And I can claim the horsepower numbers aren't real until proven otherwise.

Originally Posted by bmw///m3///

If you know people (they tend to exaggerate hp ratings and fish sizes) youll know to take the hp rating with a grain of salt.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know that I should automatically assume BS on hp ratings. Tell me something, was the dyno sheet I posted an exaggeration?

Apparently it's okay to post big fat fake numbers because some people like to hear a FISH STORY vs TRUTH.

Constant