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Old 07-11-2011, 04:28 AM   #1
dhong089
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Default Lower Intake Mess

Hey guys. So this thread encompasses lots of topics, so I didn’t exactly know where to put it. It mainly has to do with the lower intake assembly but the main problem is the fuel system area. So I’m deep within the task of replacing the starter. I tackled the mission from above by planning to remove the intake assembly. It honestly felt like I was just hacking and slashing away. I was removing random hoses to which I had no idea what purpose they even served. For the hoses and electrical connections I disconnected, I marked them with tape so I can remember where they belong. Doing this job made me realize how complicated my car is… and how restrictive the intake is.. (how the heck does the engine receive air through all this?!?!)

So far, I removed the airbox, the throttle assembly, and the upper intake. I shoved the upper intake stuff to the side. My problem now is the lower intake manifold. How the heck do I remove it?!?!?!?!

Here’s a picture of the progress so far


From the looks of it, I have to remove the fuel rail looking thingy, but I have no idea how to tackle it… All I know is that if I disconnect anything further, I'll have fuel spill explode everywhere. I’ve been staring at this area for about 20 minutes until I finally just gave up.

Here’s a closer up image

Anyone have any ideas what I should do? (besides give up and send the car to a mechanic lol xD)
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Old 07-11-2011, 05:33 AM   #2
cooljess76
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So you went against the advice of multiple experienced people who have replaced starters on these cars, decided to take apart the intake manifold anyway despite being told by multiple people that it's easier and less problematic to replace the starter from underneath the car, and now you need help?

FWIW, everyone that I've heard of who replaced their starter from underneath, managed to get it done and back together without problems. On the other hand, EVERYONE who attempted to remove the intake manifold, had and likely still do have engine/idle problems.

Good luck with that. Maybe one of the many people that screwed up their cars by removing the intake manifold will chime in and help
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Old 07-11-2011, 05:44 AM   #3
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Yes... Silly me

It's just that the thought of unbolting the transmission and all that jazz made me intimidated. I also heard from too many people that both methods were the best methods, and both methods were also the worst. I found that this site recommended doing it from under while the bimmer forums recommended to tackle it from the top. I found a helpful guide (here's the link http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=412487) that guided me doing the job from the top (whereas I couldn't really find an in-depth guide that taught me how to do it from the bottom). I'm a huge noob, so I trusted whatever best guide I could find.

Considering I don't have a transmission jack, I didn't think I can do it from under... I guess you could just use a standard jack, however I have no experience underneath the car... Bleh, I guess I kinda do regret my decision. But as long as I replace every hose back together and replace the beat-up gaskets, I shouldn't have any problems, right?

PS: The most helpful guys on this forum not giving me any helpful insight makes me scared (I really hope I didn't screw up my car)
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:13 AM   #4
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In your last thread I explained how to do it without lowering the tranny to tilt the engine:
http://www.318ti.org/forum/showpost....54&postcount=5

There's only two bolts holding the starter on. Both of them are located at the top of the transmission bellhousing. If you know approximately where they are at (about 11 and 12 o'clock) you can use a super long extension, or a combination of smaller extensions equalling about 2ft long, and guide the inverse torx socket onto the bolt head from the back of the transmission by the flex disc.

Looking at your motor, you have an M42 which means your car came with the older style starter. The older style starters have non threaded mounting holes which means they require a nut on the engine side. Newer style starters(03/1996 and later) have threaded holes, which mean they only require a bolt. On the newer style starters, the bolt goes through the transmission bellhousing and threads directly into the starter, making the job much easier since you won't need someone to hold a socket on a nut from the engine side.

Good news is, the two styles are interchangeable. So when you get a replacement starter, get the newer style with threaded holes. Bad news is, I've never removed or taken apart the intake manifold on these motors, so I can't offer much help. I've only heard horror stories from people who have. The only advice I have to offer now that you've already started to remove it, is to either stop what you're doing and put it back together immediately while things are still fresh in your mind. Or... continue with the removal, label everything including each end of every hose, take lots of pictures to use as reference and pray to god everything goes back together and works with no missing or leftover parts.

I know there's other people on here who have more experience than me when dealing with the intake manifold, hopefully one of them can provide some insight.

Last edited by cooljess76; 07-11-2011 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:03 PM   #5
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I've had the fuel rail and intake mani off my car several times. It would have been better if you depressurized the system before you got this far, however, you can still depressurize the system down at the fuel filter and avoid spilling any fuel in the motor/underhood area.

Just put a fluid bucket down under the fuel filter, loosen up the front hose clamp on the fuel filter and then pull the fuel line back from the fuel filter. Make sure your eyes are protected, and use a rag around the fuel line just in case there is excessive pressure and you get some gas coming out in force. The pressure dissipates very quickly, and if you use a rag and bucket, you can collect any/all gas that spills out. I always make sure to have the rear of the car on the ground, the front lifted up as high as I can get it when disconnecting the fuel filter. This way, no fuel spills out that is sitting in the line between the pump and filter.

Once you have pressure off of the fuel system, reconnect the fuel filter, and you can disconnect the main vacuum line running into the "octopus" attached to the fuel rail, then you disconnect the fuel inlet line and return line, make sure you get high quality fuel line and replace these lines and get new BMW original fuel hose clamps to replace the clamps you took off.

Once you have the vacuum lines and fuel lines disconnected, the fuel rail is simply held in by pressure and snug o-rings. You have to gently lever out the entire fuel rail at the same time, the fuel injectors back straight out but can jam if you try to pull one side of the rail out before the other.

Even more of a pain is disconnecting the electrical "squid" that sits in the middle of the lower intake, it is a real pain to disconnect some of those connectors, and if you don't get everything labeled properly, and back in the right place, you will have issues.

Taking the intake apart is not some kind of magic science, it is however, involved, and you better take damn good notes and label everything.

Once the fuel rail is out, and the electrical squid all disconnected, the lower manifold comes out very easily. Everybody on here that has installed a DASC has done this removal, so lots of knowledge to be had on how to do it.
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:36 PM   #6
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Thanks for the detailed explanation; you’re definitely a life-saver : )

Quick question: do you HAVE to replace the fuel lines and clamps, or can you re-use them?

Also, once I depressurize the system, and I want to re-pressurize it again, what do I have to do? When I finish everything and go up to start the car, is there anything special I have to do?

Once again, thank you very much for the help~
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:21 PM   #7
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If I were in your shoes, I would stop working on this from above and just climb under your car and get at the bolts to the starter.
Once you have the car in the air, you will be surprised how quickly you can get this job done. You do not need a transmission jack. You do not need to tilt the transmission either.
I bet after you get this whole intake apart, you will still end up having to climb under you car to get the bolts loose or to hammer on the locating pin for the starter to free it up. So if you want to make this job easier, take my advice. If you want to make it difficult, keep on doing what you are doing.

Now your questions....
The fuel real inlet and return lines are a bear on a 95 car. The hoses are short and there is little space. If I were to tough them I would replace them because they are probably 16 years old. It's up to you on the clamps, but if they look/work well, then re-use them. The fuel rail comes out by removing the 2 bolts at each end which secures it to the manifold. Then you need to pull the whole thing up, injectors and all.

If you keep taking this top down approach, I am sure at some point you will be asking how to get the black box out of the manifold so you can completely free it. You can see that this back box is really a place for wires to run. In order to remove this box, and completely free the lower intake from the car, you will need to disconnect every wire which goes to that box. It is a big pain to do this. If you figure out an easy way, let me know.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:37 PM   #8
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Thanks for the reply dave~

I’m still not so sure what to do yet. I went in the garage this morning and jacked up only the front end to snoop around. And there it was, my first time seeing the starter. It was a bit rustier than I would imagine. Thing is, I could not even touch the thing. If I had a 5 inch screw driver or something, then I could tap it, but I don’t see how I can access that starter while I’m under there. And to think of taking the thing out (impossible!) My arms just aren’t long enough (and I’m not a short person either, I’m about 5’11!!!)

Also, for the fuel hoses, I will most likely replace them. But where can I find the specific hoses for my specific car/engine? How will I know the hose is the right diameter/size/shape of the old one?


I haven’t done anything yet. I looked at the car from underneath and from up top, and I’m now contemplating on what I should do. Taking the job from top is definitely getting a bit difficult (but hey, the more difficult, the more I learn, right?). And I do want to get the car back on the road a.s.a.p.

Maybe I’m looking at the starter from the wrong angle (or maybe the thing I looked at wasn’t the starter motor.. lol; but I highly doubt that.)

If I have time later today, I’ll try to snap some pictures. But meanwhile, if anyone else has a helpful picture, I would greatly appreciate it xD

Once again, thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it a lot.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:00 PM   #9
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I hope you are not under the car without jack stands.

Don't worry about being able to touch the starter yet. Get 2-3 feet of 3/8 extenstions and climb inder the car between the front and back wheels with your rachet/extensions and correct e-torx bit. You will be laying under the transmission brace. With your light, look toward the engine and you will see the bolts which bolt the transmission to the engine. Near the top you will see a bulge in the transmission housing. This is where the gear for the starter goes. Just below that you will see one of the bolts which holds the starter on. Navigate your extensions with the e-tporx bit on it up to the bolt, then loosen it. As you have been told before , you most likeley have a nut on the back of the starter. If this is the case, you will need someone to put a wrench on that to hold it still while you are under the car turning the ratchet.

If you remove the hose that goes from the valve cover to the pcv valve, you will see the nut if you look in the right spot. I think it's easier to see the bolt/nut for the 2nd bold if your spotter stands on the passenger side of the car and looks between the engine and the firewall.

To get at the starter wires, climb under the front of the car and slide yourself back until you are around the front wheel. from their you should be able to get the wires off of the starter. I am 5'8" inches tall with normal length arms. I can do it, so can you.

More than one person has hooked the starter up incorrectly on this forum, so pay attention to which wire goes where and make sure you put it back the same way. The easiest way is to make a sketch when you see which wire goes where.

As for the fuel line hose, any auto parts store will have it. You will need less than 1 foot of the stuff. Just tell them you need a fuel line for a fuel injected car and bring your old one to them and they will take care of it.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:10 PM   #10
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The fuel line clamps at the fuel rail inlet/return lines were crimped hose clamps, and as such were not re-useable. I have no clue how other cars are configured, or if this was something that a previous mechanic had done to my car. I know the lines was pretty hard/not flexible, and it just made sense to replace them. The cost is minimal when you take into consideration how bad a split high pressure fuel line is.

The system will re-pressurize itself once everything is hooked back up and the pump is running.

I've not done a starter on my car, so not making any suggestions on doing it from the top or bottom. I'd probably listen to everybody else and do it from the bottom, but that is only because I would only remove the lower intake and electronic "squid" if I needed to replace sensors located under the intake manifold.

Which, if you are going to continue down the road of removing the entire intake manifold, you should seriously consider replacing the sensors located on the block. There are is a temp sender, and two knock sensors. Also, it would be fairly easy to replace the crank and camshaft sensors. A few hundred dollars in parts, but you don't want to be taking the intake off again any time soon. If the car has really high mileage, having the fuel injectors cleaned at the same time also makes sense. It is a big job, so make sure you do everything that makes sense to do.

Last edited by mohaughn; 07-12-2011 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohaughn View Post
The fuel line clamps at the fuel rail inlet/return lines were crimped hose clamps, and as such were not re-useable. I have no clue how other cars are configured, or if this was something that a previous mechanic had done to my car. I know the lines was pretty hard/not flexible, and it just made sense to replace them. The cost is minimal when you take into consideration how bad a split high pressure fuel line is.
Mohaughn,
On a 95 car, the fuel lines are metal lines which come within 2 inches of the fuel rail, then a short piece of hose in between. On realoem.com it shows hose clamps are used.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...04&hg=13&fg=10
My car is a 95, too. The lines to the fuel rail look the same as the OP's.
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:11 AM   #12
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Yup, exactly like mine. Just that the hose clamps on mine were crimp clamps, not worm drive/screw clamps. The clamps were one time use.

Oetiker ear clamps is what they are, or at least another brand of that type of clamp. Currently, BMW says to use the worm drive clamps with the smooth barrels and and overlap under the screw mechanism so you don't pierce the fuel line when you get it tight.

The ear clamps are a one time use type of clamp, they have to be replaced with comparable crimp clamp, or the newer style worm clamp.
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:32 AM   #13
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I did the starter by removing the upper intake only- and the alternator. Wasn't bad. Only 2 bolts, which you can get with a wrench from above.

Where in PA are you located? I'm in Hanover.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:03 AM   #14
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+1 on your location...I'm in Newmanstown and work in Mechanicsburg. Maybe one of us could help you out....
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:16 PM   #15
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recently removed my intake manifold on my m44 and its pretty simple although to get the wiring out of the way i had to cut up the junction box to be able to thread all the wiring through the lower intake manifold

the fuel rail comes off easy enough just disconnect the battery and have a rag ready for when you remove the hard line! does the m42 have the valve on top of the fuel rail to relieve the pressure?

also i would recommend having some new orings for the fuel hardline and for the injectors before you attempt it incase yours are perished and a new intake manifold gasket!

all my pics of me doing mine are in here! http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthrea...440#post305440
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