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Old 09-23-2005, 12:19 AM   #1
kiley_sean
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Default So...you want to wear the big boy shirt?

CAUTION!!!!!!

This is a long winded post and may very well be the LONGEST POST in this board's History. It's so long, in fact, that I have to post it in many parts (exceeds the 10,000 Character limit).

I usually lurk, but this is the first time I have ever had my name drug through the dirt, so I feel obligated to defend myself, and my ex-330ti, by giving my side of the story. I understand that this person is not in the country, but I guess he will have to catch-up on this later, because I'm not waiting to offer my side story.

Everyone: Pull up a seat and pop open a beverage because this should be an interesting read.

This is in reference to these two threads started by Evan (AKA Quillbro):

http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6562

http://www.318ti.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6431

It's best if you scan through those two threads to get an idea of what I am going to discuss.

So, without further adieu:








My Rebuttal

By Kiley_Sean


Well, well, well, Evan!!

If you are going to talk bad about someone- make sure of a few things first:
1. Don't use their for sale listing to sell it again
2. Don't Use their hosted pics (BIG PET PEEVE)
and
3. Don't slander that person on a board they are a member of.


Here is the original for sale thread that he hacked up and conveniently inserted harsh remarks about me.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=379526


I made it very clear of all the problems. I answered EVERY question to a "T". It was insisted that it be sold locally because I wanted to be able to "screen"
the potential owner. I also stressed the need for a "mechanically inclined" owner, because this hatch is an on-going project, and it was always owned by wrench-turners (Gene_Tinik, and then me).

Anyway, I had many, many offers to put this bimmer on a flatbed and send it to another state. A few of those offers were for more than yours, Evan. I didn’t sell it to them because the car wasn’t “100%” and no matter how much I explained online, they needed to see/hear/drive it in person. There was also a short in the rear brake lights. It was not “safe” to drive long distances without brake lights, IMO. So that was another reason for wanting a local sale.

The reason I made an exception for you being out of state, was because you were a fellow member of the military and you were about to ship out to Iraq. I just got back from Iraq, so I felt compelled to "help a brotha".

***Background of our Bios: .I am 28 years old w/ 8 years of active duty service in the AF, and Evan has maybe a year or so in with the National Guard. He's 19 or 20 years old.)****

You swore up and down that you knew how to work on cars and that all the problems, that I "clearly" stated, were going to be handled by you and your friend with ease. You said that you would either fix the brake lights on the spot, or drive it as-is (a little risky, but you stressed how much you wanted the car).

Your promise of “I’ll fix the quirks” made me feel better since this car was the “token” hatchback from DTMpower. I spent the whole ownership focusing on the drive train of the car, and was up to the point of refurbishing the interior, giving it a new paint job (it wasn’t nearly as bad as you say, though, Evan.)

I envisioned that it would keep passing through hands, keep getting upgraded …but you put zero effort into this car. You didn’t even turn a wrench on it. You took it to a shop and bent over in labor. Had I known you weren’t going to put some “elbow grease” into this project I wouldn’t have sold it to you: Point blank.

I say “project” because that how it was listed. They way you are whining makes it look like I promised you a 100% “perfect” car. Get real, dude. You think this car was going to be “perfect” for 6,500$!!! If anyone got “worked over the coals” it was me.

I paid 10K for the hatch 2 years ago and it had blown shocks, rusted out exhaust, and an underpowered cooling system right off the bat. I had to fix those items the first week I owned it. It comes with the territory when you buy a USED, HIGHLY MODIFIED CAR!!!

Over the past two years I had probably 12-14K in maintenance parts/mods, and hundreds of hours in labor. I loved this car to death and never
“Abused it”, which is more than I can say for you in your first few days (I will get into this later).

Here is how the sale went down. I have PM's and emails for everything, but I don't want to dig them up right now.

When you first wanted to buy the car, I took it off the market. You planned on catching a flight for the following weekend to pick it up. After waiting 3 days, you PM'd me back and said "Sorry, dude...I can't buy it now..my loan didn't go through".

No problem. I listed it back up. A couple of days later you PM'd me again saying "Dude...My brother wants to buy your car. Can he paypal you the money?"

"Sure", I said. This was on a Sunday afternoon. So the payment wouldn't actually clear 'till about Thursday-Friday. I told him to fly down here that
weekend, the payment would be cleared, and I would have it all cleaned-up and ready to rock (since I am off-duty on the weekends).

The very next day (mon.), Evan called me at work and said that he had a flight to arrive here the next day (Tue.). I was put in a spot because Being a Supervisor (staff sergeant) I can't just leave work like that. That also left me with no time to install the rear interior and clean the car up. Above all...the payment would not be cleared and he could very well drive off with my hatchback for FREE!!!

After some thought, I said "Sure...we can work this". So I had to pull strings to get out of work early (3pm) to pick him up the next day. Evan was waiting at the airport for an hour, but what can I do?

So we get to my place and he looks at the car. It was a very, very hot and humid day. Anyway, I sat him on the couch, talked to him for awhile, and we seemed to have a few things in common (later I was wrong). We go out and actually open the car up, start it up and just generally look over everything. He asked a tons of questions (I would do the same thing).

Then we went for the test drive. No offense....but you can drive stick to save your life, Evan. I was gritting my teeth the whole test drive because I could visualize that precious driveline, that I worked so hard to install, being jerked back and forth as you fat-footed the foot controls of the marvelous 330ti.

I actually had you stop at the gas station because I couldn't take it anymore. Luckily it did need gas (so as to not offend him) but it was because I just didn't like the idea of someone, who can't drive, tearing up my ride. So I drove it home from the gas station.

** Funny thing is that he left the lights on and the battery died at that gas station. The battery was several years old and was losing it's charge. Luckily we got a jump start and went on our way. Later, I offered to pay for it's replacement, but you declined it. **

To be continued VVVVV
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Old 09-23-2005, 12:20 AM   #2
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Did I mention it was a hot day? Well, we get back from the test drive and he had more questions about the window regulators. From that point on, I knew that he didn’t have a clue to the mechanical operation of automobiles.


He asked about the shaking in the steering wheel. I explained many, many times that the 18” wheels were all bent (CMT from DTMPower can attest as it was his shop that repaired one of them.) I never had shaking problems with the 17”s Fikse, but since I installed the 18”s up front (valves in the Fikse crapped the bed) it would shimmy at certain speeds, but then after awhile of driving, it would smoothen out (I suspect flat spot on the tires). Regardless, My new MR shakes at 80mph. It comes with the territory when you have a short ratio steering rack (Z3 rack in the hatch is shorter than the quick steering rack of the evo). Vibrations are amplified.


He seemed to not believe my explanation, so I offered to jack up the front tires and spin them to show him how bad they were warped. It was a hot, day!!!! So I jacked up the right side and spun the wheel. Even an old, one-eyed lady could see the wobble in that wheel. Add that to the fact that they were wrapped in old, low-profile tires, so there was a lot of feedback in the steering. I was basically trying to illustrate to him that the wheels were bent.


After watching the wobbly wheel go round-and-round, he said “That’s only a few millimeters….that’s not going to cause it to shake like that....there is something wrong with the frame” That was the comment that set me off. I explained many times that the car did not have a bent frame and that this wobbling steering was never a problem until recently.


Sooooo……while I was bent down on the ground, with sweat pouring down my face, and the tire iron in my hand I said, “Evan…you said you have a round trip ticket, right?”

Evan: “Yeah..Why?”

Kiley: “Because if you don’t believe what I am telling you, then you should walk away from this car. If you are not 100% confident, then don’t buy this car....I wouldn't. Fly home”

Evan: “Dude…don’t get offended because I am asking questions”

Me: “Well..I worked my azz off on this car, put a lot of money into it, and I really don’t appreciate someone inferring that I am hiding something. I don’t need this and I don’t have to sell the car “

Evan apologized, and said he still wanted the car and to not worry about it.


So that was that. We went inside, signed the title over, printed up a bill of sale, and then it came to his name. He had a different last name than his brother who sent the paypal payment. “I changed it”, he said. If anything was “shady” it was that part. The person sending the money didn’t have his last name..how convenient. I was starting to smell a scam, but took him at his word. **The Payment did clear two days after he left**

So we packed the car up with the rear interior, and extra parts. I apologized again that the car was not clean, and that if I had enough notice, it would have been thoroughly cleaned out and everything ready to go. He basically said “Don’t worry about it…it was short notice. I understand. The first thing I am going to do is clean this thing really good and fix all of the little quirks”. ***I guess he doesn’t remember that part when he was badmouthing me about how dirty it was***


Fast Forwarding a bit:

He drove it all the way to Wisconsin. Other than the rear driving lights going out on him, the engine ran “smooth” and “perfect” to him. He got home and all was well……for a little bit.

That following Friday or Saturday I received a frantic phone call from Evan. “Hey, Dude. Something is wrong with the car. I revved it up kind of high and all of a sudden I hear noise…kind of like a ticking noise. I limped it to a shop and they are looking at it. Do you know anything about this?” ***He had a tone that seemed to me like he was interrogating me.

Me: “Uhh…how high did you rev the engine? You might have over-revved it. I don’t know, dude, I just bolted that head on and everything else was straight. Did you overheat?"

"No", he said.

A couple of days later the mechanic dropped the tranny and found that the diaphragm of the pressure plate had exploded, sending the “fingers” all over the bell housing which subsequently cracked the bell housing.

That’s strange!! I installed that UUC 8.5lbs flywheel and Sachs E34 M5 clutch myself in Sept. It had roughly 7-8K miles on it and I never had a problem with it. Autox’s, drag racing….it clamped like a champ. I guarantee that if we could find the torn (from shrapnel) clutch disc that his shop replaced- it would show probably 75-80% of meat left on it.

You have to question the possibility, that this 19 year old, who has never owned a “fast” car, might have been playing a little hard to show off to his friends. He did brag to me about his top-end run and drifting/donuts he did in his 1.9L Z3. Look at the time frame. He got to Wisconsin, and of course all of his buddies were like “Hey give me a ride…let’s see what it can do”, etc. Next thing you know, Mr. “I can’t shift for ****” power-shifts the tranny by accident. Maybe he decided to try a “side-step” with the clutch.

Shoot....just the way he was shifting during the test drive was enough to destroy something. He was basically shifting without disengaging the clutch (power-shifting) while I was in the car....lord knows what he was doing back home.

That is the only thing I can fathom, because a simple slip launch will not destroy anything...Maybe glaze the flywheel up a bit, but that’s it. Now if he said the clutch was slipping three days after purchase, then I might have been sympathetic, but that was not the case.

Pointblank: He forced something while shifting and shattered the diaphragm. Not my problem, especially after he wrote a post on Bimmerforums about how crappy the interior looked just a day before (Evan, did you really think I wouldn’t run into your posts?)

To be continued VVVVV
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Old 09-23-2005, 12:23 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quillbro
Then the alternator went, (the guy that owned the car before me had some POS alternator in there) it was replaced with a 140 amp Bosch with cooling impeller.Those are the only things i have done since I bought the car.
The alternator that you replaced was a 140 amp!!! LOL!!! BOSCH...whooohh.....I have used plenty of Bosch, Valeo, and Sun belt alts. They all burn out one way or another. I actually pointed out how much the car ate up Alternators to you in my driveway, remember? You asked “Why is that dryer hose sticking up?”. It was the cooling vent for the alt. But I never found the finishing piece that sat above the aux. Fan (the air dam). Thus, it ate through two alternators with me. No biggie because the alternators were lifetime guaranteed so it was a matter of a half
hour to change it out for a fresh one. This was too much for you I guess.

I know you haven’t had many cars, or probably changed your own oil, but here is a tip: Starters, Alts., Thermostats, Water pumps, brake pads, rotors, clutches, brake and clutch master cylinder, slave cylinders, carrier bearings, flex discs (guibos), any ball joint or bushing, dampners, mufler bearings, etc….are wear items!!! They go out, so get used to it. You can pay a shop to replace them or you can save the money by doing it yourself. You didn’t deserve this car. Too bad I didn't find this out sooner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by quillbro
There is a problem with the suspension im not sure what it is. when I bought it the guy told me that the two mismatched front wheels were bent and that was why the car was shaking but it turned out he was full of ****.

Another bent wheel perhaps? Ball joint? Unbalanced tire? Lower control arm- inner ball joint or rear bushing? Wheel bearing? Did you even take it to an alignment shop or, at the very least, grab ahold of the tires and shake them down? NO! You are speculating.

YOU don’t even know what it is that you are badmouthing me about it. Get a clue. You thought the engine was blown when you thrashed the clutch system!!! I hope you sold it to someone who "knows". Again..you don’t deserve it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by quillbro
What it needs:

-The window regulators are acting-up. The previous owner was an idiot and had them all Fcuked up, I got the windows back in the regulator arms but they are still not in the tracks. Also the drivers side regulator is acting up and needs to be securely bolted into the door.
Remember this from my for sale thread? You should....you copy and pasted it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiley_sean

The window regulators (the 'arms',) are bent. I replaced the drive's side regulator a year ago, but it went off-track and the motors are too insenstive to just "stop pushing" so the tin foil of a regulator is bent again. I pulled the passenger side trim off and inspected it's too, and gosh dang was it bent, too, and I shouldn't have tried to re-bend it because it never went-up again (about a month ago)

They are about 85$ from alloembmwparts, but I just don't have time to replace them. The motors, windows are fine. The door trim was left off.
Again… no effort on your part. Project cars are not your forte. The window regulators were clearly, and I mean CLEARLY explained on the for sale listing, and INPERSON (what ticks me off the most)!!! Why are you acting surprised? Check the listing again. You need to REPLACE the window regulators!!! They are bent and no matter how you arrange them to the door, they are going to rip the casters back out of the rails.


Quote:
Originally Posted by quillbro
-There is a short in the brake lights, running lights and panel lights.

The rear lights work, but the brakes likes don't
(third brake does, however). They would need to be wired to bypass the curcuits to work.
Remember saying something like this:
“Oh....the brake lights won’t be a problem…me and my buddy can fix that no problem.”


Quote:
Originally Posted by quillbro
This car is not 100% perfect....no way. Running condition is awesome, but it has it's little quirks as far as what was stated above.
QFTMFT!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by quillbro
Also the previous owner treated it like **** so the car would probably need a new paint job. From 10 feet it looks good but get up close and its not good.
Excuse me? I treated it like crap? This comment punched me in the throat. How dare you!

Do these pics look like I was "treating it like crap"? http://www.drunkdubs.com/gallery/vie...lbumName=kiley

I spent every dang weekend working on this thing. I had about the most intimate relationship you could have with an inanimate object with this car. I felt like giving up some many times, but kept going. When I look back in several years, that bimmer will be the only only that I can honestly say caused me the most Pain and Joy. It was emotional for me to sell it, but I out-grew the car. You didn't even know what that car was about, man.

You did NOTHING to the car yourself. Whoopty-frigin-doo...you PAID to replace a clutch kit, that YOU destroyed, and an alternator that burned out. Now you are giving up on the car like that? You will never have the heart to customize your own car. Things break. You gotta pay to play. Remember that, Evan.

Mechanically...it was well- and I mean WELL- maintained, but then again I wouldn't expect a guy like Evan to understand. He hardly knows the difference between a wrench and a rachet it seems.

The interior/ exterior might not have been show-quality...but it was pretty much the way it was when I bought it 2 years ago. You gonna badmouth Gene_Tinik, now?!!! I really don't know what you were expectin, Evan. Most E36's I have seen , that are driven, have wear on their paint. Unless you were expecting a garage kept, waxed every month show car....the paint was in pretty dang good shape. Sorry it didn't meet your standards. You didn't have to buy it, right?

Now, about the “abuse”. I never, ever abused this car. It ran a good number of Autox’s and made passes at the drag strip, but I never over-revved it, side-stepped the clutch, power-shifted, spun out, etc. I always let it cool down, always warmed it up (remember how anal I was about your warming it up, Evan?). I changed fluids routinely and had it on a lift atleast twice a month.


I didn’t beat on the car for three reasons:

1. I was 26 years old when I first bought it, and respected it way more than I could have at 19-20 years old (*hint*). Point blank: Maturity.

2. My buddy Joe and I were the sole people to work on this car. You are less likely to abuse and break things when you are the one to fix it.It’s kind of like stealing money from yourself.

3. It was my daily driver for the majority of those 2 years. This kind of connects with the above statement. If it broke down.....I had to walk to work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by quillbro
so....I bought a 97 330ti off a shady guy in South Carolina about 3 weeks ago.
SHADY!!! I did so much for you, you jerk. I gave you tons of parts that were new-in-box. Anything you asked for, I gave it to you. Offered you to stay over night at my place, escorted you to the interstate. You ingrate. You conveniently left out the fact that I signed the title over to you before the payment was even cleared. Thanks for nothing, I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quillbro
The car was covered in sap and pine needles when i walked up to it.....dings and scratches all over in the body, (obvious signs that the car was not cared for)...the interior was filthy dirty.....there were a lot of discrepancies when we were talking about the car.
Sap? Dirty? No shiet!!!
It had been sitting for probably good two months before you arrived (I was busy driving my new lightning) and it was parked under a ....**GASP***.....Pine tree!!! What interior was dirty!! It was all up stairs. We put it all in when you got here. No tears in the interior, so why are you crying?

You basically gave me a day notice before you flew in, so I didn't exactly have time to clean the car up. When you said, "I'm gonna clean this thing up", I had no idea that you were going to stab me in the back. Total lack of respect.

"Not cared for". Like I said before....you have put zero effort into that car, so you have no room to judge me, bud.



Quote:
Originally Posted by quillbro
It was a decent deal though.
That's the first thing you have typed that is truthful.
Sad thing is that I could have given your the car for free and you still would've found something to complain about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by quillbro
With alot of work it would be a nice
car. But i think he was less than completely honest with me.
You were not totally honest with me, Evan. You told me you were capable and willing to work on the problems.....you never said anything about your being reliant on a shop to perform your work. You're not the buyer you pretended to be. Dishonest.


Quote:
Originally Posted by quillbro
took the car to the shop when the clutch blew and the owner of the shop said there were nuts and bolts loose all over the place. and the elctrical job on this car is a nightmare
Loose bolts all over the place? HA HA!!! Sure!!! If you want to complain about the OBDI engine being spliced into the OBDII car, talk to Gene.


Obviously you need to buy a new car with a warranty instead of a USED highly modified car, because you don't have a clue about much. Hopefully you learned your lesson on that. You must have a "drive" in you to seriously modify a car. At this time, you don't have it. Leave it to other people and stop running your mouth.



The END.
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Old 09-23-2005, 01:30 AM   #4
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kiley, the entire ordeal sucks and i'm sorry you had to go through it. especially with a car like that, it's hard to know the new owner doesn't take care of it nearly to the same degree you did. when i was younger we had to give away our dog (brother's allergies were getting worse) and it felt exactly like this. when i broke up with this girl due to distance and other issues, i still hoped the new guy would treat her well.

you seem like a real genuine and honest guy. don't let this bad apple mess with you.


if you're ever in my area, first round is on me.
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Old 09-23-2005, 01:41 AM   #5
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Dude...the comment about the dog hits home. My dog was a rescued from the pound and I would never trust her with another person. This car, like my dog, is/was my family.

Someone saying that I didn't "care for it", "treated it badly",or "didn't know what I was doing" just easts away at me, especially when it is a person who hasn't even lifted a finger to work on this car (like he said he would/could).

I am usually a bigger man than this, but you can only take so much from a person that I innitially thought was cool.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aceyx

if you're ever in my area, first round is on me.
Wathc out!!! I travel for free booze!
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Old 09-23-2005, 02:09 AM   #6
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man oh man, sounds like you made it pretty clear about the issued and were being wicked nice to the guy and he's talking all this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiley_sean
Wathc out!!! I travel for free booze!

If you ever decide to go for a road trip,free round in New England.
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Old 09-23-2005, 02:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler
man oh man, sounds like you made it pretty clear about the issued and were being wicked nice to the guy and he's talking all this.
I don't know what happened. This was what I feared the most when I was selling the car. I was scared of being made into a "bad guy", because the new owner bit off more than he could chew with the car.

From the looks of it....that's exactly what happened. I don't wish him ill, but do want to teach him about respect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler
If you ever decide to go for a road trip,free round in New England.
Dang!!! If I can get a few more people, I might just hit the highway right now!
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Old 09-23-2005, 02:50 AM   #8
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Ingrate... I don't think you could have said it any better.

If you are ever in the NYC area... next year when I'm 21, not only the first round is free, but i'll get you good and drunk!

I can also relate to the maturity thing. I'm very meticulous when it comes to my ti. Mainly because I work on it myself. I have fixed the windows, I have replaced the engine mounts, I have installed new bushings/ball joints/control arms, fogged my airbox, and replaced numerous interior parts costing me well over an amount I can currently add in my head. Every time the oil had to be changed, or the car had to be washed, I did it. I even get out of the car when the guy at the gas station pumps my gas (remember I live in NJ). I don't know why I do, but i guess so he doesn't spill gas? Point being, my friends wreck their cars in heroic races on the interstate, romp with their trucks in the meadows, burn out, race at every traffic light they pull up to, etc. I don't do that at all! I go to the track to race it, even though it's not very fast at the moment, but it's fun. My ti is too my daily driver, and I love it to death.

I have also had electrical problems similar to the ones your car had, as well as the suspension... which was bushings and ball joints being old. I have also had friends who blew trannys and cracked blocks doing donuts.

I have that relationship with my car, and if i had the money, I would definitely do the M3 engine swap/suspension/exhaust/bodykit I have always dreamed of. I sometimes think the car is worth more to me than my girlfriend, then I think again... and realize it is. It has been with me longer, and it doesn't cost as much to maintain.

Sucks about the whole situation, but this too shall pass. Just hope a grease monkey gets a hold of the car and shows the forums what it's capable of. Maybe we'll see it in a magazine one day.

Take it easy.
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Old 09-23-2005, 02:54 AM   #9
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The only thing i don't get is that he never saw the car in person and he pay paled for it. So he must've known what he was getting into. He should've flown out there looked at and made his decision then. Seems like you explained everything to him and he still wanted to purchase it. This is not a car you want to use to learn how to drive a manual trans on and sounds like he was a rookie.

I have never read a post this long before,but i read everything thing on it and all the links. And it's a shame things happend the way they did.
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Old 09-23-2005, 03:23 AM   #10
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You sound like me, Jperfect. It may not have had a nice coat of wax on it, and the inside probably had some dirt and mud from all the floods we got down here, but I didn't neglect this car. Far from it.

Tyler, that's what I thought, too. He was so sure about buying it and I felt for him being shipped to the sandbox, so I was sure he was the owner I was looking for.

I definitely walked away from this with a lesson in selling products over the internet: Seller beware!
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Old 09-23-2005, 08:51 AM   #11
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i read it all...sorry man.....im with you man,,,sounds like you did more than what was required of you.
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Old 09-23-2005, 03:59 PM   #12
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Sorry to hear about a deal gone sour! I would have taken your warnings seriously, too. Even with all the troubles $6500 seemed to be a good asking price. But this situation has me thinking I'll be doing the swap on this car I have now rather then looking for one that has it done already. Was this car an OBD-1 converted to OBD-2??
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Old 09-23-2005, 05:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_hegel
Sorry to hear about a deal gone sour! I would have taken your warnings seriously, too. Even with all the troubles $6500 seemed to be a good asking price. But this situation has me thinking I'll be doing the swap on this car I have now rather then looking for one that has it done already. Was this car an OBD-1 converted to OBD-2??

OBDI S50 in a '97 OBDII car.
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Old 09-23-2005, 05:53 PM   #14
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sorry to hear about this whole mess, but you definately did more than required and you didnt wrench the money from his hands. Beer in NYC!
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Old 09-23-2005, 06:04 PM   #15
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2 cups of coffee and 1 pecan roll later and i got it all read. that sucks that your car went to someone that juvenil...and after you were so so honest about what the cars is, to have him turn around and be deceitful about the car and you just isn't cool! you got a beer in north east ohio for ya!

oh yeah, giving your car up when a paypal money transfer hasn't cleared by someones brother with a different last name?!? you're a more trusting person that i am!
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