 » Site Navigation | | | | » Recent Threads | | | |  |  |  | |  10-16-2012, 01:01 PM | #1 | | Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: UK Posts: 25 |  Forced Induction on a UK 1.6 on a budget ?
I realized 1.6 wasn't widely available worldwide & mostly found in UK/German and other EU countries. Also I see in this forum "Forced induction" threads are for 1.8 mostly. (Those who made the journals, nice work!!!  ) Ofcourse 1.6 isn't the fastest in the world & never will be. But I enjoy the car & i've grown with it. It is underpowered but still OK for a daily drive. Now i've got about £630 to spend (equal to $1,000) right now. I'm making this thread to ask for your thoughts about adding "FI" to the 1.6 8-valve engine. I've never seen Superchargers on ebay, but there are a lot of turbo kits. (which are even cheaper than $1,000) These turbo kits are aimed for 6-cyl cars so they are a bit complicated to work on. What are your thoughts ? What parts do you suggest for the 1.6 ? (& please no "Get a big engine replies", i'm happy with this "little one" already) Thanks for reading  |  |  | | 10-17-2012, 01:01 AM | #2 | | Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland Or Posts: 2,666 |
The supercharger off the little Mercedes C230 I think would be a good candidate.
Its a M42 which will juice up to about a 2.5 Its a nice small unit youd need to fab a bypass, it also has a clutch so potentially you could use a RPM switch to control it.
Cheers
Dave __________________
Dave - PDX
1995 318ti - Active Black and Tan.
2005 330xi - Mtech 1 - 6spd - Orient Blue/Black | | | | | 10-17-2012, 01:18 AM | #3 | | Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: UK Posts: 25 |
Quote: Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead  The supercharger off the little Mercedes C230 I think would be a good candidate.
Its a M42 which will juice up to about a 2.5 Its a nice small unit youd need to fab a bypass, it also has a clutch so potentially you could use a RPM switch to control it.
Cheers
Dave | Really? looks like those are requiring custom work. BTW, my engine is M43 
Last edited by Wanda; 10-17-2012 at 03:13 AM. | | | | | 10-17-2012, 03:18 AM | #4 | | Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: UK Posts: 25 |
Edit:
I've just been to ebay, where i live (UK) there's a lot of sellers selling these chargers:
Mercedes C203 which you have mentioned
Mini Coope Eaton M45
Eaton M90 (looks like it was used in DASC)
Mercedes Eaton M62
What do you think guys ?
& what else should i buy to match-up the kit used by DASC
Otherwise, i'm still welcome to Turbo suggestions instead, since i have the money to spend anyway.
Thanks again. | | | | | 10-17-2012, 06:17 AM | #5 | | Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland Or Posts: 2,666 |
Well yea,, it would require custom work, but WAY less than most of the Ebay turbo kits...
The M42 (Blower model number from eaton... ) uses a flat flange output and the standard Eaton input. You would need to fab a bracket, have a custom crank pulley made and build a pipe to connect the blower to the intake manifold. Move your TB to the inlet of the blower (Adapter plate) and thats about it...
Cheers
Dave __________________
Dave - PDX
1995 318ti - Active Black and Tan.
2005 330xi - Mtech 1 - 6spd - Orient Blue/Black | | | | | 10-17-2012, 07:28 AM | #6 | | Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: UK Posts: 25 |
| | | | | 10-17-2012, 07:01 PM | #7 | | Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: UK Posts: 25 |
pdxmotorhead i see you're offline buddy, but okay no worries. Just reply when you can.
Meanwhile Can anyone else help me shed more light on this thread ?
I'm eager to start the build right now...
Can't let those kits go away on ebay, they are not easy to get in UK | | | | | 10-17-2012, 07:34 PM | #8 | | Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Northampton, UK Posts: 35 |
By any chance are you Wanda from BFI?
My honest answer you won't be able to do this cheaply (your budget is no where near high enough). You'll soon find that your brakes need upgrading and you start adding bits and bobs to the build. Ignoring the brakes I fitted to mine (Porsche 4 pot caliper and E46 M3 discs if anybody is interested) the build cost me around £3000 for the s/c, fitting was free but I also had to get extra bits for it.
There was someone of BFuk that swapped the M43 head for an M42 head and the supercharged it. That's probably a better option.
There is also a company in the UK (can't remember the name but might be able to find the thread) that has started making a s/c for the 318is using a Mini (Eaton M45) unit. This might be of some help as well buddy. Iirc the kit was around £2000 but you had to get the actual s/c yourself. | | | | | 10-17-2012, 08:05 PM | #9 | | Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: UK Posts: 25 |
Hey Prince!!!
& Yes that would be me.
The budget itself is for the charger, which in this case isn't easy to get a good one, but ofcourse other bits will be funded separately, also to include funding for custom work for that m43 engine.
It's not an overnight project but a "slow" one indeed lol.
Did you mention swapping M43 to M42 ? what's actually involved?
I'm guessing: "m42 rocker, m42 head... Then the bottom half remains m43 ?
-------
-------
Other part of my mind thinks turbo is easier to do, because only custom work is manifold & downpipe. All 'turbo' related stuff seem to fit the budget of buying the S/C alone.
I don't expect crazy power from turbo or S/C ... I'm thinking 5-8 psi would be okay on stock internals (if ecu remapped too) & safe enough as a daily driver.
What do you think ? | | | | | 10-17-2012, 08:31 PM | #10 | | Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Northampton, UK Posts: 35 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Wanda Hey Prince!!!
& Yes that would be me.
The budget itself is for the charger, which in this case isn't easy to get a good one, but ofcourse other bits will be funded separately, also to include funding for custom work for that m43 engine.
It's not an overnight project but a "slow" one indeed lol.
Did you mention swapping M43 to M42 ? what's actually involved?
I'm guessing: "m42 rocker, m42 head... Then the bottom half remains m43 ?
-------
-------
Other part of my mind thinks turbo is easier to do, because only custom work is manifold & downpipe. All 'turbo' related stuff seem to fit the budget of buying the S/C alone.
I don't expect crazy power from turbo or S/C ... I'm thinking 5-8 psi would be okay on stock internals (if ecu remapped too) & safe enough as a daily driver.
What do you think ? | Hello mate. See these links (UK forums) for some info... M43 gets M42 head ready for s/c. The details on the new company I mentioned can be found here. Or here. Yeah the head swap is essentially that. I am expecting around a 50% power increase (140bhp up to around 200bhp) from mine so I don't see why you couldn't expect similar. I also believe I'm running around 8psi. My reasons for s/c instead of turbo was more for the power delivery. Having it there when you want it is very nice and I thought it would make a daily driver that way. No lag issues. The turbo may well be cheaper (Other things to consider with a turbo are cooling), but knowledge on it is pretty hard to find. Hence why we came to a US board! I think JohnBoy is the resident forced induction expert on here so if he doesn't find this thread himself it might be worth a PM. I'd love to see you do it though dude, the 4 pots need more love!  | | | | | 10-17-2012, 11:49 PM | #11 | | Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: UK Posts: 25 |
Thanks for the links mate, it's going to be a long read but every info helps!
Quite aware of the lag issue on turbos as you need to hit a certain rpm for it to pick up, whereas s/c is always there even in low-rpm/idle rpm
I've read two turbo journals on this section (not quite finished) but great work from both of those guys!
& Yes, these 4-bangers definitely need more love! Underrated cars for sure lol. | | | | | 10-18-2012, 01:54 AM | #12 | | Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland Or Posts: 2,666 |
If a turbo is sized correctly, and your not running some monster specialty unit, lag is a non existent issue. But as noted oil plumbing, water cooling for the turbo, and the air plumbing to get a intercooler (Water to air is more money but easier.) The various M series superchargers will give you pep without a lot of stuff wrapped around it. Look at Ford installations, the SC thunderbird is a good example of a pretty bare setup, just for how to do it wihtout a really tough custom manifold. If you take a look at http://www.sdsefi.com/ they have some good tech pages including a manifold buildup which is well within the skills acquired in a night welding course. Cheers. Dave __________________
Dave - PDX
1995 318ti - Active Black and Tan.
2005 330xi - Mtech 1 - 6spd - Orient Blue/Black | | | | | 10-18-2012, 02:55 AM | #13 | | Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: UK Posts: 25 |
Thanks for the info again @pdxmotorhead, much appreciated. So far right my mind thinks: Supercharger (I have to get these parts INDIVIDUALLY): - Mini/Eaton M45 S/C or Merc 230 (as you suggested) - Auxiliary Fuel Pressure Regulator * * * Bypass Elbow * * * Lower S/C Support Bracket (to hold S/C in place) * * * Idler Bracket & NEW additional idler - PRV Hose - This hose connects * * * AFPR Mounting Bracket * * * Custom Intake Manifold (specifically for 1.6 manifold) - Longer Throttle Cable (just in case the TB doesn't reach OEM cable) * * * means requires custom fabricating, welding, etc... -------------------------------------------- Turbo kit (these parts come as a WHOLE kit): T3/T4 Turbo Charger Intercooler Air Breather Valve Cover Filter Manual Boost Controller Oil Cooler Oil Relocation Kit (return) Oil Feed Line Kit Intercooler piping kit Super SQV bypass dump blow off valve kit Turbo Timer Oil Catch Tank External Turbo Wastegate 2 fans fuel pressure regulator + + + 4-cyl modified manifold (car is Right-Hand drive, so turbo has to be infront of engine bay [ like this example]) + + + turbo down pipe ----------------------------------------------- From what i can see already, S/C will take a long time to build due to a lot of fab work to be done & labour is costly. Turbo, like said all parts come at once (costs less also) All that needs to be done is fabing the manifold & down pipes. Though, engine has to be taken out eventually, so again, labour costs since i don't have a garage.... Hmmm my mind hurts since i can't decide what route to go, but either way i'm fired up! Ofcourse, i'm a newbie to the world of FI but as always I appreciate any responses, good or bad... Thanks for reading  | | | | | 10-18-2012, 03:19 AM | #14 | | Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland Or Posts: 2,666 |
The bracket for the blower is not that complex, and you need 1 tube to connect the charger to the stock intake. If the turbo is less than 600 ish dollars (Without the kit...) its very likely a chinese knockoff... Unless your going used, then make darn sure its for a 1.6 to 2.0 liter engine, or its unlikely to spin up like youll want. IMHO I would not bother with anything less than a water and oil cooled ball bearing unit... Sizing is also a trick, the turbo pipe kits still need all the tubes cut and welded, in the end the turbo is way more tuneable if sized correctly and usually has a better blend when driven daily... Be sure and keep a photo diary ... Youll want ot remember what you did... Dave __________________
Dave - PDX
1995 318ti - Active Black and Tan.
2005 330xi - Mtech 1 - 6spd - Orient Blue/Black | | | | | 10-18-2012, 03:47 AM | #15 | | Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: UK Posts: 25 |
Quote: Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead The bracket for the blower is not that complex, and you need 1 tube to connect the charger to the stock intake. | Thanks for the heads up, i'll look in to that part. Quote: Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead If the turbo is less than 600 ish dollars (Without the kit...) its very likely a chinese knockoff... Unless your going used, then make darn sure its for a 1.6 to 2.0 liter engine, or its unlikely to spin up like youll want.
IMHO I would not bother with anything less than a water and oil cooled ball bearing unit... | The kit comes as new and equates to $1,250 USD as a whole. The oil cooler included, i guess that means the unit is oil-cooled only. Would you think that's still a chinese knock off ? Lol, it's not easy to tell from just looking at the images as i'm not an expert at this. (I might ask the seller where it's from) Regarding what the seller said about engine size, here's the response: Code: Hi, the parts work on your car. You just need a turbo manifold and downpipe,
which is not included in the kit.
Quote: Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead Sizing is also a trick, the turbo pipe kits still need all the tubes cut and welded... | The piping is universal, so yes I was aware i will encouter this obstacle... The engine bay might need a bit of shaving up (relocation of certain things), just so the piples can move freely. With the car being an RHD, the steering column is a problem already, as it is under the manifold already, so pipes will need to find alternative routes to connect... and possibly extending them also... Quote: Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead in the end the turbo is way more tuneable if sized correctly and usually has a better blend when driven daily... Be sure and keep a photo diary ... Youll want ot remember what you did... Dave | Yeah, when it comes to installing i won't be alone lol, the car will be at a garage with some to help assist with the tuning... Ofcourse, I'll be doing a build thread since i need to keep track of my own progress too. (with a busy life, it's easy to forget things)
Last edited by Wanda; 10-18-2012 at 03:49 AM. | | | | | |
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