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Old 07-02-2008, 03:13 AM   #1
autoxerwgn
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Default M3 Swap in Progress. Trying to keep ASC, IHKA, and OBC. Which driveshaft do I need?

So I have finally gotten to the point of taking the ti off the road and totally taking it apart to do the swap. I purchased a high mileage 96 M3 Coupe for parts as I figured it would be much easier to get all of the parts that I would need. I know that I posted earlier to get some opinions on weather I should rebuild the engine due to mileage. It turns out that the engine was in good shape, even after 220,000 miles but since I did find some wear on the bearings and slight wear on the cylinder walls, I ended up doing a complete refresh including all bearings and new rings.

From the beginning, I wanted to try and retain the ASC after the swap. I checked out the wiring diagrams and found that the M3 ABS/ASC system is more advanced and contains a bunch of extra/different wiring and sensors. I figured that as long as I had the donor car, it would just be a matter of labor and wiring. I also figured that I might as well try and swap all of the M3 dash including the automatic climate control and OBC and make that work as well. (Haven't heard of anyone trying the same thing yet) After taking apart the interior of the donor car earlier this week, I found that it might be easier than I originally thought it would be. It seems that all of the IHKA, OBC, and ABS wiring is contained in the front section of the body harness. After removing the dash and heater box to access the wiring, I found that the harness is totally seperate from the other harnesses in the car such as the radio, and airbag systems. After disconnecting and fishing the wiring out from the engine compartment areas (ABS sensors, all lights, aux fan, and other stuff around the perimeter of the engine compartment) the interior section of the harness basically comes right out thru the large hole in the firewall under the fuse box. I would say that the biggest pain was having to crawl under the car to disconnect the rear ABS sensors and un-do the harness clips above the rear subframe to be able to free the wiring. I have gotten to the point where I am almost ready to remove the stock ti front harness from the car. I will update when and if I get things working. I suspect that I may have to add a couple of wires to get the rear wiper/washer working and I may also have some "rear light failure" messages to deal with.

Anyways, back to my original question. I have searched around the forum and also purchased the swap manual and still have not been able to find a definite answer to my driveshaft fitment question. I have the engine and trans out of a 96 M3 Coupe (5/96 prod) and was able to find a complete M Roadster rear subframe. The driveshaft out of my M3 is a 6-bolt that does not match the 4-bolt diff flange. The closest fitment that I found was posted by J!m and he said that he was using S52 engine, ti trans, ti driveshaft, and Roadster diff. Since I'm pretty sure that the M3 trans is at least a little bigger than the stock ti trans, does anyone know if the stock ti driveshaft will still fit? Do I need to go and get a M3 driveshaft with the 4-bolt end? I would hate to get everything else installed just to have to order and wait for the proper driveshaft to arrive.

Thanks and more info to come
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Old 07-02-2008, 03:16 AM   #2
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well, I know this isn't what you're asking but, you need a sedan dash to do the dash swap, coupe dashes won't fit, something about a bar behind the passenger side
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Old 07-02-2008, 06:14 AM   #3
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eager to see how this turns out! I always thought losing ASC/DSC was a big bummer with all that power.

Good luck and free bump
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Old 07-02-2008, 07:24 AM   #4
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Well I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I bought a wrecked '98 M3 donor a few weeks ago and I'm thinking of doing the same thing. ASC doesn't really concern me as much since I'd rather have a LSD. I'm not going to rebuild the motor, but I am going to replace the front and rear crank seals, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, filter housing gasket, head gasket and any other gaskets that I encounter. The OBC would be cool, but honestly I'd rather use the space for some gauges later down the road. As for the dash, it's been said that only sedan dashes fit, but I've seen a coupe dash installed in a Ti. Now there is a steel support frame that may be problematic, but I'd imagine that it can be swapped with the one in the Ti since we actually have the one from the coupe. It may be bolted or it may be welded. Either way, it can be removed and swapped over.
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:33 AM   #5
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I dont know any answer for sure, but couldnt you split the ti and M3 shafts
Then hybrid them-
-use the rear half from the ti (to mate onto diff)
-use the front half from the M3 to (connect to gearbox)

?
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:58 PM   #6
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The M3 trans is a larger unit, but if you use the TI trans & driveshaft, the //MZ3 diff will work with no issues.

There are many //MTIs running the stock trans without any issues including myself. I haven't heard of one failing yet.

Just make sure you use a //M3 clutch.

Love to see you get the ASC working. I didn't have it on my 1995, and I removed it on my 1998 so I've never experienced it. 8.5" sticky tires does a good job of traction control anyways.
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:26 AM   #7
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I purchased a sedan dash for the swap. Dunno about the support on the passenger side since the parts catalog says that the sedan and coupe use the same part number.

Today, I managed to swap over the under-dash harness and IHKA. I reconnected the battery to test things out and it seems that the OBC is working at this point. I will need to re-arrange/re-wire some pins and wires going to and from the check control module to get the rear lights working but otherwise things seem ok. The IHKA also powered up and I heard the flapper motors move around so that seems to be working too. The only thing I noticed when I was installing the heater box was that the drain was in a different spot. I knocked out the hole that I needed (already there in the tunnel just not punched out) and ended up using the circle that I popped out of the firewall for the battery relocate and using that to seal the original drain hole.

I still need to finish running the battery cable to the back of the car, re-do the rear light wiring as mentioned above, and run the wires for the rear wheel speed sensors to the back. Other than that, I think the wiring is pretty much done.

For some unknown reason, I ended up starting the swap on the interior of the car so I'm going to try and get the stock engine and trans out next so I can finish swapping over the M3's ABS unit, and brake booster to see if there are any fitment issues there. After that, I think I am going to try and finish the driveline first to make sure that I don't need to rearrange any other dash wiring to make things work.

I guess once I pull the stock components, I can compare the 2 transmissions that I have and see what may or may not fit. I would rather have the M3 trans paired to the rest of the M driveline but it's nice to know that I can just use the stock ti trans regardless.
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljess76 View Post
Well I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I bought a wrecked '98 M3 donor a few weeks ago and I'm thinking of doing the same thing. ASC doesn't really concern me as much since I'd rather have a LSD. I'm not going to rebuild the motor, but I am going to replace the front and rear crank seals, oil pan gasket, valve cover gasket, filter housing gasket, head gasket and any other gaskets that I encounter. The OBC would be cool, but honestly I'd rather use the space for some gauges later down the road. As for the dash, it's been said that only sedan dashes fit, but I've seen a coupe dash installed in a Ti. Now there is a steel support frame that may be problematic, but I'd imagine that it can be swapped with the one in the Ti since we actually have the one from the coupe. It may be bolted or it may be welded. Either way, it can be removed and swapped over.
I was thinking of doing a reseal of the engine like you but when I pulled the engine apart, I had to peek at at least 1 bearing and thats when the snow-ball effect started. Nothing in my engine was "that" bad but still, I feel better not having to worry about things.

With the ASC, I would obviously choose to have a LSD over having an open diff and traction control. I just figured, especially since I had all of the parts that I needed, that it would be cool to get everything working as the factory would have built it.

As far as the OBC goes, there is still a cubbie under where it sits for something else to be added. I may add gauges at a later date too but first things first....
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:52 PM   #9
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Won't you need to wire in extra wheel speed sensors to get the later year e36 abs unit to work? I think the early ABS units are 3 channel, and the newer ones are 4 channel... Meaning that the older ones look at both front wheels, and one of the rear wheels, the 4 channel units looks at all four wheels.


I also think you need a custom driveshaft made. Check with Avezedo motorsports... Might not have that spelled right. They have done s52 swaps with zf transmissions. If you can find a driveshaft that will fit, you can change the flanges in the diff to 6 bolt if needed.
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:56 PM   #10
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I believe Ti's use the same type of ABS setup... I had 2 sensors in the rear (1 on both wheels) - Ive never even looked at the front though.

If your swapping to the ZF tranny, you may have problems with shift linkage lining up 100%.. may need to swap those out of the donor too... but it sounds like your more than ambitious and intuitive, so im sure you'll be fine
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Old 07-04-2008, 05:11 AM   #11
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The ASC system seems to be similar to the rest of the E36's. It's strange that when looking at the factory parts catalog and on RealOEM, the only setup that they show is a single line going to the back of a car and then there is a "Y" to split it to the rear wheels. I swapped over the booster, master cylinder, and ABS unit today. The ti's original unit had 6 lines on it, 2 from the master and 1 for each wheel. Following the lines to the back of the car, there is definitely 2 seperate lines and no "Y" anywhere. Perhaps the 3 channel setup is only for cars without ASC? The swap of the ABS unit was pretty straight forward except for 1 thing. BMW decided to make the flare nuts are different sizes side to side. What I mean is that you need a 11mm wrench to remove/tighten the left front and left rear, and a 12mm wrench for the right front and right rear. (I don't actually remember which was which but you get the idea) The stupid thing was that the sizes were reversed on the M3's unit. I thought that I was going to have to do some re-arranging of the wheel speed sensors to get things working correctly but there were some adapter looking things that were installed between the ABS unit and each brake line connection. I got lucky in that all of the actual ports on the ABS unit were the same size and I was able to just re-arrange the adapters to match the size of the lines from the ti.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:09 PM   #12
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So I finally got everything installed and most of it seems to work correctly. After I installed the roadster rear subframe and connected the ABS sensors up, the ASC and ABS lights went and stayed out during the short roadtest. I am in the process of reassembling the interior and other for some minor fitment issues in the center console area between the sedan/coupe console and the ti tunnel, everything seems to be going ok. I still need to get the rest of the dash kick panels from a sedan to go with the sedan dashboard as the coupe ones don't match up. I also still have to re-wire the headlights to take the check control module out of the loop as the "Check Control Inactive" message comes on only when I turn the lights on. I can't wait until I get the exhaust fabbed up and am able to drive it around!

Some notes that I found during the install:
-S52 + M3 Trans + M Roadster Rear Subframe, use a driveshaft from a 328i or is. It fit fine with the ti subframe still in the car but the center bearing was not centered in the bolt holes, and pulled towards the back of the car. Still bolted up fine with no tension on the support bearing itself. With the Roadster diff, the driveshaft fits like it was made for the car with the support bearing totally centered.

-The top of the Roadster diff is very close to the rear sheet metal and not sure if it's actually hitting yet. I did have to bend the mount tab away from the diff too as it was also touching.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philly View Post
I believe Ti's use the same type of ABS setup... I had 2 sensors in the rear (1 on both wheels) - Ive never even looked at the front though.

If your swapping to the ZF tranny, you may have problems with shift linkage lining up 100%.. may need to swap those out of the donor too... but it sounds like your more than ambitious and intuitive, so im sure you'll be fine
It is possible that your car has the 4 channel setup already... They switched sometime during the later E36's... Probably late 97 or late 98..

You still have a connection from the ABS pump to each brake line, but there is only one speed sensor in the back. I think on mine it is on the passenger side, not the driver side rear..
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:38 PM   #14
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hmm, my car has ABS speed sensors on both rear wheels - it's a 98
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Old 07-19-2008, 03:07 PM   #15
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The original ABS system had 4 individual brake lines, one for each wheel and there was also 1 speed sensor for each of the rear wheels. I swapped everything over because although the modulator looked similar, it is not the same and the rest of the ABS/ASC system is also different. The M3 system has a brake pedal travel sensor in the booster that the original ti system does not. After taking a look at the wiring diagrams for both systems, I found that there are more valves and actuators in the modulator and the ones that appeared to be the same as the ti, were connected to different pins on the connector. If one were to try and convert a ti system to a M3 system, it would not be impossible but definitely impractical as there would be a lot of wiring that you would have to run across the back of the dash to get to where the ABS control unit sits, not to mention having to reconfigure the pins and connectors everything.
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