Who do you support for president?

[jordanmc]

Everyone should read this, its taken from a book called
Hegemony or Survival, 2003, Noam Chomsky


As the year 2002 drew to a close, Washington was teaching an ugly lesson to the world:if you want to defend yourself from us, you had better mimic North Korea and pose a credible military threat, in this case, conventional: artillery aimed at Seoul and at US troops near the DMZ. We will enthusiastically march on to attack Iraq, because we know that it is devastated and defenseless; but North Korea, though an even worse tyranny and vastly more dangerous, it is not an appropriate target as long as it can cause plenty of harm. The lesson could hardly be more vivid.

In 1962, public protest was nonexistent, despite the announcement that year that the Kennedy administration was sending the US Air Force to bomb South Vietnam, as well as initiating plans to drive millions of people into what ammounted to concentration camps and launching chemical warfare programs to destroy food crops and ground cover. Protest did not reach any meaningful level until years later, after hundreds of thousands of US troops had been dispatched, densely populated areas had been demolished by saturation bombing, and the aggression had spread to the rest of Indochina.
In 2002, forty years later, in striking contrast, there was large-scale, committed and principled popular protest before the war had been offically launched. ABSENT THE FEAR AND ILLUSION ABOUT IRAQ THAT WERE UNIQUE TO THE US, PREWAR OPPOSITION WOULD PROBABLY HAVE REACHED MUCH THE SAME LEVELS AS ELSEWHERE. That reflects a steady increase over these years in unwillingness to tolerate aggression and atrocities, one of many such changes.
We are no longer in the 1960s, when the population would tolerate a murderous and destructive war for years without visible protest. The activist movements of the past forty years hace had a significant civilizing effect in many domains. BY NOW THE ONLY WAY TO ATTACK A MUCH WEAKER ENEMY IS TO CONSTRUCT A PROPAGANDA OFFENSIVE DEPICTING IT AS AN IMMINENT THREAT OR PERHAPS ENGAGED IN GENOCIDE, with confidence that the military campaign will scarcely resemble an actual war.
In his speech given to the World Economic Forum, Powell stressed that the US reserves the "soveregin right to take military action" when and how it chooses. He said further that no one "trusts Saddam and his regime," which was certainly true, though his comment left out some other leaders who are not trusted. Powell also assured his audience that Saddam Hussien's weapons were "meant to intimidate Iraq's neighbors," failing to explain why those neighbors did not seem to perceive the threat.
Much as they despised the murderous tyrant, Iraq's neighbors joined the "many outside the US mystified at why Washington is so obsessed and fearful of what is, in the end, a minor power whose wealth and power have been truncated by internationally imposed constraints." Aware of the dire effects of the sanctions on the general population, they also knew that Iraq was one of the weakest states in the region: its economy and military expenditures were a fraction of Kuwait's, which has 10% of Iraq's population, and much farther below those of others nearby. For these and other reasons, the neighboring countries had been mending fences with Iraq for some years over strong US opposition. Like the US DoD and the CIA, they knew that today's Iraq poses no threat to anyone in the region, let alone in the United States. To argue otherwise is dishonest.

Still want to vote McCain?

[cooljess76]

I doubt this thread will get anymore interest from McCain supporters. Not that there has been a stitch of intelligence brought to the table from them, but I think it's pretty clear that their campaign is in the dumps and now they're probably too embarrassed to reply. Whether or not they still choose to vote for McCain, they probably won't admit it. Just like half of them won't admit to voting for Bush. It's a sad world when people have to be ashamed of who they support. The really sad thing is that they'll still go out and vote for McCain despite their instinct telling them that it's wrong. I doubt that anyone on this forum makes more than 250k per year, but if they want to help the rich get richer and continue to destroy our economy, while watching our troops die and return with permanent injuries, then let them go out and fight, let them support another 4 years of economic failure. Notice I only said 4 years because we all know that McCain doesn't have 8 years left in him, unless of course you think Sarah could handle the country.

[Maverix]

Jess, there is a difference between being ashamed, and being intimidated. Not many people want to express their want to vote for McCain because of the vast hatred towards them and the hostile remarks. Not many people feel comfortable when discussing the issue.

Me on the other hand, i'm proud to say: I'm Iranian, and I support W, McCain, and Palin.

[gonzeno]

I am voting for McCain! Voted for Bush also! When looking at the choices of the last three elections, I am voting for whomever I agree with the most. Simple! I think that at this time most people have already decided for whatever reason whom they are going to vote for. So arguing back and forth on a car forum is non productive. Everyone has their own reasons for a candidate and also against. The main thing is to get out there and vote!

[96cali]

Originally Posted by cooljess76

Notice I only said 4 years because we all know that McCain doesn't have 8 years left in him, unless of course you think Sarah could handle the country.

I dunno... I think McCains mom is still alive and actually looks pretty spry at 98 or so. Showed her at the convention. They got some good genes in that family me thinks. Plus all that bitterness has got to keep him going.

[tol4o]

Originally Posted by Maverix

Jess, there is a difference between being ashamed, and being intimidated. Not many people want to express their want to vote for McCain because of the vast hatred towards them and the hostile remarks. Not many people feel comfortable when discussing the issue.

Me on the other hand, i'm proud to say: I'm Iranian, and I support W, McCain, and Palin.

And what do you actually support? The low intelligent candidates or because your state is mostly republican and it's a shame to vote for somebody else besides McShame.
Because of the last 8 years of "bushame" the world doesn't respect USA anymore. Would you like this for another 4 years?
If you call yourself a proud American, the only way to be proud is to have the world respecting your country!

I agree 100% with what cooljess76 says!

[golfn4gold]

I am voting for McCain too. I am just tired of your writing how stupid everyone is on the subject Jess. I make over 250k a year and I work very hard for it. No my parents didnt give me the business it is something both my wife and I have work over the last 8 years. No one gave me anything and I given and help a lot of people that have needed it over the years. The president is not the sole problem, congress and senate have had it say in policy. No matter who you vote for please vote.

[Maverix]

[QUOTE=tol4o;199363]And what do you actually support? The low intelligent candidates or because your state is mostly republican and it's a shame to vote for somebody else besides McShame.
If you call that constructful criticizing, then you should be ashamed

Originally Posted by tol4o

Because of the last 8 years of "bushame" the world doesn't respect USA anymore. Would you like this for another 4 years?

No matter what America does, you can never please the "world". You think 9/11 happened because Osama and his terrorists were please with America? You gotta be ****ting me.

Originally Posted by tol4o

If you call yourself a proud American, the only way to be proud is to have the world respecting your country!

Never called my self a "proud American". And what kind of 1 way street remark is that? That's like saying, if you don't like Obama, then you're automatically considered a homosexual.

Originally Posted by tol4o

I agree 100% with what cooljess76 says!

I agree 100% with Jess to. But I still favor McCain over Obama.

If anything, you just made yourself look like a complete fool.

Back on topic: I think Obama has many great plans. And many of his plans out run McCains. And for that reason, I don't fully support 1 side completely. But I do tend to agree with McCain on some topics also. And if McCain wasn't running for president, my vote would've easily gone to Obama, hands down. So i'm not narrow minded when it comes down to it, as some of yall might think.

[b.u.ti-ful]

Originally Posted by golfn4gold

I make over 250k a year and I work very hard for it.

Holy cow! I'm impressed.

Can I ask what the business is?

Continued success to you!

[gonzeno]

Same here b.u.ti-ful ? Lets us all in on the secret! LOL

[1996 328ti]

Originally Posted by golfn4gold

I make over 250k a year and I work very hard for it.

And you're not a site supporter?

[tol4o]

Originally Posted by 1996 328ti

And you're not a site supporter?

Good point!

[Will'sBimmer]

Originally Posted by 1996 328ti

And you're not a site supporter?

LOL. Very true. It is about time we started to close this gap between rich and poor and not make it bigger. People ought to open their eyes and see that if you do not help out by giving tax breaks to people make less than 250,000 and give them to the rich, you are hurting the economy. And for the people who make over 250k, the taxes will not even be that much for you. You have plenty of money as it is. I see this as greed by people who do not want to give up one penny but would rather hog it for themselves. I am sorry but this is America and we are supposed to be helping our government, economy, and our fellow brothers and sisters out by making America a place where the common person has better chances at being successful. Not by taxing the poor and giving breaks to the rich. You are rich what do you need more money for?????? For that winter, spring, summer, and fall wardrobe that you must have every year, every season for wifey and yourself from places like sacks fifth ave., Gucci, D&G, etc. If I made 1 million or even just 250k a year, I would have no problem with paying more on taxes. It makes sense I make more so should pay more. It is a balance and not to mention every other Actor, director, celebrity, or anyone with money I have heard say that they have enough money and don't mind paying more taxes. I can only pray that change comes and that people start opening their minds and stop being so damn greedy with the "give me give me more and more". Who sounds like a kid in Toys-R-US. Throwing a fit cause they can't get something.

[b.u.ti-ful]

Is it Sports Sciences Inc?

If so, good for you mate!

[cooljess76]

It has occurred to me that McCain is the one bitching about Obama's plans to raise taxes for the rich, not the supporters, so I'll give you guys that. I bet the percentage of Americans who have actually bought into McCain's argument about taxes is pretty small. Two of the big reasons I think people support McCain are his position on abortion and his position on the war. People will always take opposing sides on those two issues. While both of those issues are really significant, we have to understand that women will still terminate pregnancies whether it's legal or not. And people are finally starting to realize that we can't afford to keep losing lives and dumping borrowed money into this war. It's not a win/lose situation over there fellas. This war is nothing like the way it was when McCain was in the Navy. Perhaps being the bigger man and withdrawing our troops will be noticed as the honorable thing to do instead of the defeat that McCain claims. But seriously though, does anyone here honestly believe that dinosaurs walked the earth 4000 years ago?