knock knock... what's that?

[bmorekirby]

i'm having a similar problem. please post the problematic part when you figure it out.

[cpatstone]

Note that this oil is Mobil1 5W-30, about 500 miles / 3 weeks old.

btw - I put magnet in the little tub here (what drained from the oil filter), and it really didn't pick up much. Couple little bits of steel, nothing huge, but presumably the oil pump has a screen to keep the bigger chunks out. But, the magnet didn't seem to attract a fuzz. Maybe the bits are mostly non-steel? Might be a hint as to where they came from.

[budget76]

Glittery paint job time?

That looks like something isn't doing too good internally Maybe it being aluminum is why the magnet didn't get it. I don't know enough about the 4cyls to make any more guesses

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

That is not a good sign. I suppose none of that metal is Metalic?

[cpatstone]

Originally Posted by xxxJohnBoyxxx

That is not a good sign. I suppose none of that metal is Metalic?

just a little is magnetic. maybe 10-20%? but again, I'm assuming there's some sort of mesh screen on the oil pump pickup that potentially things that didn't get thru. There was one thing that looked like about 1/8" off the end of a small needle, but not that nice and round in profile. basically a shard, and it was steel.

I also spend some quality time with the valve cover off. (just before, I rand the car for a minute to make sure the hydraulic lifters were not drained). I turned the crank several times. All of the camshaft lobes look OK all the way around. None of the rockers are flopping around or visibly damaged. Just using my thumb, I couldn't push down on any of the lifters or springs. Chain doesn't seem to have slop. Didn't see any traces of metal bits anywhere in the head.

#3 cylinder seems to have a bit more black on the top of the piston, vs more tan-gray on the others.

So... I think I'll put a new filter in it, put some 10k old oil from my healthy car into it, run it a little, drain that and then put in some fresh (cheap) oil. Not going to hurt it at this point. Then I need to get the car inspected and see if I'm subject to emissions inspection (a key for potential engine swaps).

Will I do any damage if I unplug a fuel injector while it's running? Or a plug wire? I suppose this could be one cylinder badly misfiring. doubtful? but could be an easy test.

Aside from pulling the motor, or the oil pain, is there any other inspection that I can do?

[budget76]

Sounds like a good plan to try to flush it out.

Gimp, how long were you using the sucky-thing to get the oil out vs draining from the pan? I'm thinking that metal could have been accumulated over time at the bottom of the pan and never got sucked up.

[gimp]

Originally Posted by budget76

Sounds like a good plan to try to flush it out.

Gimp, how long were you using the sucky-thing to get the oil out vs draining from the pan? I'm thinking that metal could have been accumulated over time at the bottom of the pan and never got sucked up.

I used it for years. I think I only did one "traditional" oil change on the car.

[cpatstone]

I dunno... not to bring this too off topic, but lots of folks use the Pela oil suckers, myself included. big things ought not to be floating around in the engine, to begin with. If they do/are, the problem is way bigger than the oil change tool. so big things are either going to stay in the oil pan, end up in the oil pump screen (still assuming there is one), or in the filter. smaller particulate that goes thru the filter would be suspended in the oil and would get sucked out.

that said, if it wasn't a PITA, I'd pull the oil pan to clean it out and maybe see what's going on.

[ASRACER4]

im not sure of the metal hardness of the cam but it sure sounds like a flatten cam lobe.

[cpatstone]

Flattened lobe - how would I check for that? just measure the overall max dimension of the camshaft at each lobe? I can do that. Note, all appear to have a nice, smooth finish all the way around.

I did find two opposite bolts loose on the intake camshaft sprocket. Not really loose, as they weren't backed out any visible amount. But I tightened them maybe ten degrees without hardly any force with my 1/4" drive ratchet. Will put the proper 11 ft-lb on them before I run it next.

Is there any way that this can be timing chain related? PO suspected that, and thus replaced the timing chain tensioner. Any way to check for proper tension?

[xxxJohnBoyxxx]

Originally Posted by cpatstone

Can you remove these metal pieces from the filter and take a picture of them on a flat surface (Macro). Also is each fold in the oil filter packed with this much metal?

This is not normal wear but I'm not sure what it is. Maybe if I can look at the metal closer I might be able to figure out what part it was...

John Smith

[ASRACER4]

set up a dial indicator take measurements every 90 degrees. compare to other lobes. have you looked at your valve springs you may have a weak or broken spring. do you know if the engine was over revved.

[pdxmotorhead]

<shakes head>

Its broke... The non magnetic shiny stuff is bearing material... Based on race motors I've swapped youve at least got some bearing galling.. There is almost no non magnetic material in the valve train.

Drop the pan and pull the rod and main caps.

Just for fun, I've had engines with cracked or broken piston skirts knock randomly.
A broken oil scraper ring will cause bad piston slap and cylinder wall gouging.


Dave

[gimp]

Originally Posted by ASRACER4

set up a dial indicator take measurements every 90 degrees. compare to other lobes. have you looked at your valve springs you may have a weak or broken spring. do you know if the engine was over revved.

It was never over revved in the three years I owned it. It certainly wasn't babied, but never over revved.

[cpatstone]

Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead

<shakes head>

Its broke... The non magnetic shiny stuff is bearing material... Based on race motors I've swapped youve at least got some bearing galling.. There is almost no non magnetic material in the valve train.

Drop the pan and pull the rod and main caps.

Just for fun, I've had engines with cracked or broken piston skirts knock randomly.
A broken oil scraper ring will cause bad piston slap and cylinder wall gouging.


Dave

Thanks Dave. PO's mechanic thought it was a rod bearing.

Two questions - for you or anyone else - do you really need to lift the motor and drop the subframe to get the oil pan out? I don't have an engine lift, but I could borrow one. Then again, if we're pretty sure it's bearing material, I'd rather do a post-mortem when the motor is out and the S52 is in.

question #2: thicker oil would be very slightly better in this situation, right? what's the thickest I can go? Suggest any additives? (will put the new oil in after flushing it with clean-but-used oil, and a new filter)

BTW, I didn't measure the cam lobes because I just can't believe that any one of them is the source of all that debris. Turning the crank by hand, you know that some parts of the cycle take more effort than others as the cam lobes compress the springs. I did notice that the chain tensioner gets pushed in a little as there's more tension on the timing chain, then goes back to where it was. Gets pushed in maybe 1/8", or less. Point is, I assume this is normal. Timing chain guides looked fine as far as I could see from the top end. I've put the thing back together, with the stock exhaust and not the aftermarket one the car came with, in hopes to pass the state inspection. And ask the guys if the car is subject to emissions inspection. 'cause that might be important...