» Site Navigation | | » Recent Threads | | | | | | | | 01-25-2007, 04:49 PM | #1 | Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Broomfield, CO Posts: 46 | DASC help, throttle cable and altitude ?'s So I bought a wrecked 95 with a DASC and I am getting ready to put it on my 98. I have talked to DA and they are willing to sell me the brackets cables and pieces that are different, but to get the car running this weekend, I need a throttle cable. Does anyone know of a readily available throttle cable that will work? Also, what are the effects of altitude? I am in Denver at 5,200 ft. Does the supercharger make less boost at altitude? If so what pulley should I get to compensate? | | | 01-25-2007, 07:22 PM | #2 | Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 382 | i think air is thicker the higher you go up.... thicker air is better...... (i may be wrong my knowledge on this is limited) you can get a smaller pulley that brings it up to 10psi read around the forum theres a few threads on it.............. | | | 01-25-2007, 08:06 PM | #3 | Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Tracy, California Posts: 473 | Quote: Originally Posted by chrissummit So I bought a wrecked 95 with a DASC and I am getting ready to put it on my 98. I have talked to DA and they are willing to sell me the brackets cables and pieces that are different, but to get the car running this weekend, I need a throttle cable. Does anyone know of a readily available throttle cable that will work? Also, what are the effects of altitude? I am in Denver at 5,200 ft. Does the supercharger make less boost at altitude? If so what pulley should I get to compensate? | I had to order mine directly from BMW. You will need a longer cable and the one I ordered is for the 318ti UK version (with the steering wheel on the right side). It took 4 days to get it. __________________ 1989 E30 325is 5s Coupe Zinnoberrot 1991 E30 325i Auto Coupe Schwartz 1991 E30 325is 5s Coupe Hellrot 1995 318ti E36 Alpine White III DASC (RIP) 1996 328i 4Dr Artic Silver (RIP) 1999 M3 Estoril Blue Metallic RMS Vortech SC 2001 325i E46 Alpine White - Sports Package (SOLD) 2005 E46 M3 Coupe SMG | | | 01-25-2007, 08:58 PM | #4 | Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 2,525 | Quote: Originally Posted by 318iS i think air is thicker the higher you go up.... thicker air is better...... (i may be wrong my knowledge on this is limited) you can get a smaller pulley that brings it up to 10psi read around the forum theres a few threads on it.............. | If that were the case climbing Mt. Everest would not be a big deal at all. Oxygen content is lower in air the higher you go away from sea level. I probably wouldn't worry about it though. You could run a pulley to get more PSI out of the charger but that will also cause the charger to run hotter. I'm sure if you ask DA they would be more than willing to help you if you are buying stuff from them. | | | 01-25-2007, 09:35 PM | #5 | Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Central NJ Posts: 2,440 | How much is everything else from Downing Atlanta? | | | 01-26-2007, 01:40 AM | #6 | Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 290 | I'm also at 5000 ft and I run a 9psi pulley with no problems. If you bought your car from a lower altitude, you should release the pressure inside the supercharger's nosegear. I bought mine used off a guy at low altitude, and always wondered why the input shaft seal under the pulley leaked. I opened the fill plug to add some fluid and a hiss came out and a few droplets sprayed out. And this was with the engine cold. So there was a few psi inside the gearbox causing oil to weep out. | | | 01-26-2007, 01:46 AM | #7 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manassas, VA Posts: 4,129 | Your Science professor would be proud. Quote: Originally Posted by 318iS i think air is thicker the higher you go up.... | __________________ 1998 (July) 318ti, 5-spd OEM Armrest Blaupunkt Heidelberg CD50 CD Player/Compact Drive MP3 Player Diamond Audio 5.25" rear speakers Navman ICN 530 GPS BMWALARM.COM (with comfort settings) after market alarm system Magnecor 8.5mm wires M-Z3 Shifter/Momo Knob Burlwood Dashboard Stromung Exhaust X-brace Racing Dynamics Front Strut Bar Carbonio C.A.I. 17" Rial Rims Vader Seats/Heated/Lumbar Support M-tech Steering Wheel/Front Sway Bar/Front & Rear Bumper Depos/w 6500K Angel Eyes/6000K HIDs Clear Corners M3 Mirrors UUC Light Weight Flywheel/M5 Clutch/M3 Clutch Slave E28 3.46 LSD/Mcoupe Cover/E30 Flanges & Halfshafts UUC S.S. Brake/Clutch Lines Hartge Roof Spoiler BavAuto Springs Bilstein Sport Struts/Shocks E46 M3 Rear Shock Mounts SPC Front Camber Kit Reiger Hatch Spoiler BavAuto Rear Camber Kit Dinan Stage II Software Turner Rear Sway Bar Reinforcements BMW E46 Auto dimming mirror with Clown Nose alarm Engine Compartment Light Heated Wiper Fluid Retrofit OEM Fire Extinguisher Da'lan Trailer Hitch Rear Sun Shade OEM Fog Light Retrofit H & R MZ3 Rear Sway Bar/ UUC Adjustable End Links Cruise Control Retrofit On Board Computer Retrofit M3 twistie style side skirts Carbon Fiber Hood | | | 01-26-2007, 02:59 AM | #8 | Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Broomfield, CO Posts: 46 | Quote: Originally Posted by ClubSport I'm also at 5000 ft and I run a 9psi pulley with no problems. If you bought your car from a lower altitude, you should release the pressure inside the supercharger's nosegear. I bought mine used off a guy at low altitude, and always wondered why the input shaft seal under the pulley leaked. I opened the fill plug to add some fluid and a hiss came out and a few droplets sprayed out. And this was with the engine cold. So there was a few psi inside the gearbox causing oil to weep out. | Thanks for the tip. It came from sea level. Do you have any other engine/exhaust mods or are you running 9psi with stock components? | | | 01-26-2007, 04:00 PM | #9 | Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 382 | Quote: Originally Posted by L84THSKY Your Science professor would be proud. | actually i always hated science.... so air is thinner as you go up then.... | | | 01-28-2007, 01:13 AM | #10 | Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 290 | Quote: Originally Posted by chrissummit Thanks for the tip. It came from sea level. Do you have any other engine/exhaust mods or are you running 9psi with stock components? | I'm running 36 lb/hr injectors controlled with a PCIII piggyback, and Supersprint exhaust. | | | 01-28-2007, 01:35 AM | #11 | Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Manassas, VA Posts: 4,129 | Yes, and as you get up above the atmosphere, there is no air. We like to call that area..................space Quote: Originally Posted by 318iS actually i always hated science.... so air is thinner as you go up then.... | __________________ 1998 (July) 318ti, 5-spd OEM Armrest Blaupunkt Heidelberg CD50 CD Player/Compact Drive MP3 Player Diamond Audio 5.25" rear speakers Navman ICN 530 GPS BMWALARM.COM (with comfort settings) after market alarm system Magnecor 8.5mm wires M-Z3 Shifter/Momo Knob Burlwood Dashboard Stromung Exhaust X-brace Racing Dynamics Front Strut Bar Carbonio C.A.I. 17" Rial Rims Vader Seats/Heated/Lumbar Support M-tech Steering Wheel/Front Sway Bar/Front & Rear Bumper Depos/w 6500K Angel Eyes/6000K HIDs Clear Corners M3 Mirrors UUC Light Weight Flywheel/M5 Clutch/M3 Clutch Slave E28 3.46 LSD/Mcoupe Cover/E30 Flanges & Halfshafts UUC S.S. Brake/Clutch Lines Hartge Roof Spoiler BavAuto Springs Bilstein Sport Struts/Shocks E46 M3 Rear Shock Mounts SPC Front Camber Kit Reiger Hatch Spoiler BavAuto Rear Camber Kit Dinan Stage II Software Turner Rear Sway Bar Reinforcements BMW E46 Auto dimming mirror with Clown Nose alarm Engine Compartment Light Heated Wiper Fluid Retrofit OEM Fire Extinguisher Da'lan Trailer Hitch Rear Sun Shade OEM Fog Light Retrofit H & R MZ3 Rear Sway Bar/ UUC Adjustable End Links Cruise Control Retrofit On Board Computer Retrofit M3 twistie style side skirts Carbon Fiber Hood | | | 01-28-2007, 01:55 AM | #12 | Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 382 | Quote: Originally Posted by L84THSKY Yes, and as you get up above the atmosphere, there is no air. We like to call that area..................space | thanks i actually dont feel stupid at all right now | | | 02-26-2007, 09:15 PM | #13 | Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: TX Posts: 140 | | | | 02-26-2007, 10:54 PM | #14 | doesn't care about you. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,925 | Here is some interesting reading about boost in higher altitudes. I'm planning on moving to Colorado soon, so I've been researching this myself. Quote: This has come up a number of times. And I think this is important to understand. What I'm going to say... well, I have no problem if Pace finds something wrong and changes it or argues with it. The first thing to understand is what your engine power really is. I once heard someone say you could tune a car solely on cylinder pressure. The basis for this was that cylinder pressure is the source of all power, and nothing else matters so long as knock and EGTs are not causing damage. Well, that may be close enough to true for a n/a car, but not a turbo. See, the power you get out of your car is not the power your engine produces. What you get is (The power your engine makes) minus (The power your engine consumes). That's a big difference. If you take a 5hp hit to the power your engine produces but make it spend 10 hp less doing so, you come out ahead, right? Now, for an N/A car, there's not a lot you can do. You can open up the intake and exhaust and make the engine work less hard to suck air in and expel the exhaust. A short ram intake will make the engine expend the least amount of energy sucking the air through the intake, so the power your engine consumes will be minimized. A CAI will be a bit of a longer straw for your engine, but it might put more dense air into your engine, which will increase the power your engine produces by raising total cylinder pressure. Now, let's look at a turbo car. Sure, the bigger the MAP, so long as it is sufficiently cooled, it will always produce more power. More air in, spark it, burn it, the cylinder pressure is insanely high. Great, right? Here's the problem - exhaust. Your valves open, and the engine has to work to push that exhaust out. Now, without a turbo that's fairly easy. With a turbo, the engine is pushing the exhaust through a turbine. If it's way outside of the efficiency range of that turbo, it's like it you walked up to a turbine at a power plant and tried to spin it. It's hard! So, sure, you can keep turning up the boost, but there's no point. Your engine will continue producing power, but it will consume that power and more. What that means is you're running the life out of your turbo and your engine for the purpose of moving slower. You can still do things to reduce the amount of energy your car consumes for a turbo car. When we do exhaust, uppipe, and silencer removal, that's what we're doing. Smoother pipes, etc. Even the lighter pulleys and whatnot. Your engine isn't producing more power, it's consuming less energy in the process. You don't start making more power until you increase boost, engine managment, and that sort of thing. Now, the turbo. I'm going to try to explain this without many numbers. A turbo is a very simple device. It doesn't know gauge pressure. It doesn't know absolute pressure. It only does ratios. Imagine if you ask a guy to make $10 for you. If you give him $10 seed money, that's kinda hard. If you give him $1000, that's easy, right? A turbo works hard based on the pressure that is coming out of it divided by the pressure going into it. So a turbo at sea level (14.7psia) would work the same amount to produce 14.7psig as a turbo up here (12.2psia) would to produce 12.2psig. It would be a pressure ratio of 2.0 in both cases. Keep in mind the absolute pressure coming out of the turbo is atmospheric pressure plus gauge pressure. So that means with a 2.0 pressure ratio you'd have 14.7+14.7=29.4psi at sea level. At high altitude that would be 24.4psi... sucks, don't it? That's what sucks for us. But even so, THE TURBO DID THE SAME AMOUNT OF WORK TO DO 12.2PSIG UP HERE AS IT WOULD TO DO 14.7PSIG AT SEA LEVEL!!! Now, that's not being entirely honest with you. We measure pressure after the intercooler, and there is a drop there. We also are neglecting the intake, and there is a pressure drop there. You need to account for those things, and they usually make it even worse for us altitude folks. I'm not going to get into the details of that. So here's what I'm saying - you can't run the same boost pressure as people at sea level for any given turbo. There is a little uncertainty because compressor maps are generally shown in volume flow rate, and we're dealing with 20% less dense air... but I don't want to pretend to guess at that math. Well, maybe I could, but I couldn't explain it without words like "enthalpy", and I don't think that would accomplish anything for anyone who doesn't already understand it. If you want to get a little extra power from a MBC, that's fine. Maybe 14.5psig up here with some better exhaust. But any more than that and you're just consuming too much energy to spin the turbine. | __________________ '99 Dinan M3 | | | | Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Posting Rules | You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | |